Caretaking is getting me down, and I feel trapped.

Thank you, hvert. I feel pretty disturbed too. It would have been a nice visit, if not for her going on and on about funeral expenses.

I think what I would want to do, in terms of the church service, would be an option, as long as it doesn't cost the family any extra money. So I would have to make sure I can cover the extra expense of doing it. I would do it right away after him passing away, and it would just be me at the service.

She was talking about having a memorial get-together a month after him passing, when it's convenient for her sibs and her. I guess more and more people do things that way. People should do whatever they want. She said the cremated remains could be brought to the VA cemetery, at that time, for military honors and placement in a permanent resting spot.

To me that's not a funeral. I don't mind that other people have different customs. But this is no more the custom among her people than it is among mine. I feel like saying to her, "Why didn't you get your mother cremated, if that is such a cool solution?" She made sure that everything traditional was done for her mother - church, normal burial in a normal grave. She goes regularly to put fresh roses on her mother's grave. But she talks about going out on a boat and dumping her father's ashes at sea, as a possible option. If someone had suggested doing that for her mother, she would have become hysterical.

In my family, everyone gets treated the same in death, regardless of how popular they were in life . . . . or what poor choices they made. In our tradition, you don't have to "earn" the right to a traditional funeral and burial. You get that just because you are a human being. My parents buried 2 relatives who had no money for a normal funeral. Both were alcoholics. That's the values I was raised with. Not "Let's see how cheap we can do this, since this person doesn't deserve better."

But to have things your own way costs money. I could possibly raise $4000, and maybe that would finance what I want to do . . . at least for the church service. Maybe then they would let the body go back home in one piece. Then they could do what they want.

I've become depressed over this. Now I kind of wish she had never come out, and I would just be focused on his care at the present, which is enough for me.

In no way do I mean to insult anyone for whom cremation is a solution that they are happy with. Dead is dead, and people should do whatever they are comfortable with. It's also only possible to do what one can pay for without going into financial hardship.

It's just that this daughter would not come up with this plan for anyone else that she loved. I'm getting mad thinking about this. I feel sick today.

Rose,

Let me try a different take on it.

It is called military HONORS for a reason and I think that VA cemetery placement is not dishonorable. It is better than scattering the ashes from a boat - he would be receiving the HONORS he DESERVED through his SERVICE.

It also just seems like it is too soon to be planning his death -- the family should be planning for his care *right now*.

The six month wait for everyone in the family to fly to the middle of nowhere for a memorial service seems strange to me as well, especially given the context of that family. They are very conservative in other matters, always wanting to do what is most socially appropriate.

Funerals today do seem very different to me. People don't even wear black anymore. I couldn't believe what people were wearing at a memorial service for my neighbor - tank tops and flip flops.

I am really hoping that he will be placed in a VA cemetery. Much of the cost of that is free to veterans. His daughter did say that she had called the VA cemetery near her to find out what is involved. Burying cremated remains in the military cemetery is cheapest. With a body in a casket, there is the expense of transporting the body. She seemed to be trying to reassure me when she said that, even with cremation, there can be a military funeral with honors at the VA cemetery.

That's fine. I hope they do provide a last resting place there, whether he is in a casket or in an urn. Throwing ashes off the side of a boat violates my own religious beliefs, but they can do what they want.

My main concern, now, is that he get the service in church, which it sounds like she isn't really planning. Also, I want to see him go into the church in a casket, with his body in one piece, which is preferred in our religious tradition (Catholic.) Flying him back to where his children live, in one piece, starts to get costly, which is why I guess she wants him cremated out West where we live.

Once there is a cremation, I'm not going to go near anything they do. They don't need me there. I will not touch, or even look at, a container with cremated remains. That is just my own personal feelings.

I have been hearing about them worrying about who's paying for the funeral for years and years. Yes, years. Every time he's been seriously ill, they have called about this matter. 8 years ago, I stepped outside the ICU where he was lying in very bad shape, to take a phone call from her. It was all about, "Do you think he would mind be cremated?" A few years before that, the son called me wanting to know what insurance money there might be that he didn't know about.

They have had their whole lives to ask their father all these questions. They wait until he is seriously ill, then pounce on me with these concerns. I am not their father's wife, nor do I live with him, nor did he ever support me. I did live with him in the distant past and have always loved him. That's why I am always there to care for him. That's why I want to see him get a normal Christian service before his remains are put wherever they will end up.

They have no intention of traveling out to where we live for any funeral. That's understandable. All his family are back there. So they want his remains sent back to them, but they want that done in the cheapest way possible.

Right now, I have a full-time job - and then some - looking after his daily needs. As you say, his care, right now, is the main priority. None of that falls on their shoulders. But they see some bills coming their way when he dies, so it's never too soon for them to start obsessing about that.

I appreciate posters above listening to me trying to sort out this sad situation. I appreciate that you are seeing that his family is adding to my stress.

This must be extremely depressing. I suppose you cannot tell them that cremation is against your religious beliefs so you do not want to discuss it, but if they want to know whether he'd mind having his body cremated, they should ask him and not you?

Yes, hamster, they should ask him, rather than me. This is not an earnest search to discover their dad's wishes, IMHO. When the daughter brings these issues up to me, I think she is really trying to get my blessing on the cremation. She wants me to say that'll be just fine, and "I know your father will be fine with it too." I'm not going to say that to make her feel good. I have never, ever criticized her idea about cremation. Families have a right to their own values on these matters. And cremation is not always about saving money. I've known of very rich people who choose cremation.

So I didn't want to insult her choice of cremation by saying it would never, ever be my choice. I decided last night that the main thing that really matters to me is taking the body to church.

So this afternoon, I sent her an email explaining that I would pay for that here where we live. Then the body could be treated however they want . . . cremated and sent back East for whatever they have in mind. She called and seemed to appreciate the he suggestion. I told her I was in line to check out groceries and I had to pay the cashier. She hung up and then called back as I was driving. She persisted with how she just wants to know what he really wants. I told her I don't have any special knowledge of her father's mind. He tells me he doesn't worry about it and that he thinks they should just let the VA take care of him as an indigent.

She kept badgering me . . . saying she doesn't want to wait till the last minute to make plans. Well, I said, in cases like this, families do what they want and that different families have different values. Then she blew up at me, "What are you saying by that?" Then she started crying hysterically, saying "I came all the way out there and this is the thanks I get." Then she hung up on me, crying and crying.

I guess I will try to avoid ever having to talk to this daughter again. Now she sees herself as the martyr being persecuted by me. My mistake was letting myself even get drawn into a conversation with her.

Rose....what do you need to do, right now, to take care of yourself?

I feel as if you're spiraling, here....

Your SO is not dead. Perhaps you could regroup for a while and then revisit this topic in the future.....

Both my parents wanted cremation. My father passed first 97 . My mom passed 2002 Bothdied way to young.. We had a private viewing for them both , Only my brother and I and my parents siblings that could make it were there . Per my parents wishes. I have both there urns with me as was there wish.

We were offered a Christian service for them both, My parents decided against one, But if they wanted one , it could have been done right in the funeral home Chapel, Clergy would have just performed the service there .. I do know that is was a very low expense vs a normal church service .. Maybe and option for you.... and then his family could do what they wish...

I do think its selfish of him to not make his wishes made other "let the VA do whatever" It's not fair to you certainly. I'm sorry your left with all these thing to think of and figure out.

I say, don't talk to the daughter for now and just let this all calm down. Emotions are too high right now.

Take care of you

Thanks, Sophie. You are right. I did start to spiral last night, and really nose-dived today. Now I'm going to watch a movie and sip hot chocolate. All day my gut has been twisted in knots with me feeling physically sick to my stomach. I'll take it easy tonight and tomorrow. My s/o and I are content here together.

Thanks, Christina. My s/o has lived his life irresponsibly on some fronts . . . like not worrying about final arrangements. This is why I stopped living with him. He's not always fair. But his kids can't expect me to answer for him. I will not try to talk further with his daughter at this time. Emotions are too high. Things will calm down.

The quality of his life, while he is here breathing is what I care about most. And I'm doing a pretty darn good job of making that the best it can be . . . if I do say so, myself. Like you say, Sophie, he's not dead. He's alive and physically comfortable and mentally content. Every day I think what I need to do to keep that going along okay, as long as I can . . . and get little breathers in for myself, so I stay sane.

Thanks, friends, for helping me through a difficult day. I think tomorrow is going to be a good day . . . one more day I have together with him.

The daughter considers her trip to see her father a gift to you - how nice. I think that her true character really "shone through" this remark and now the pestering and badgering that has been coming from her all along fits into the bigger picture.

Hi hamster. That's kind of how it struck me too.

I'm having abdominal pain. A year ago I wound up in the hospital with an intestinal condition. Something like that is wrong with me now, though I hope not as serious.

Is going to your sister's for a month or two still an option? Your situation sounds so draining and stressful.

It is an option. For now, I think I'll be alright as more time passes, and I get some distance from this whole encounter. While the daughter was here, I noticed she drinks fairly heavily. Her attitude may be colored by that.

I feel a sense of failure that things spun out of control. The souring of relations that I tried so hard to avoid happened anyway.

Today I just rested, after running some errands, and it feels like things will get back to normal.

There never was much warmth between his kids and me, but we kind of faked it with a veneer of being polite. The veneer is ruined now. I'll just keep my distance, and they'll probably make that easy.

When my own dad died some years back, not one of them even sent a sympathy card. They've always been weird to me. The funny thing is their mother was very warm and kind to me, but she's gone.

((Rose)),

I understand how this conversation seems so inappropriate to you. However, this daughter has actually shown you respect in "including" you in this process and letting you know what the family will do, and that she will pretty much be paying for whatever is done as her siblings are not showing her they want to be involved all the much.

No, you were/are not his wife, but you certainly did a lot for him in his life, IMHO, she is showing you respect for that. And she did thank you for how much you have helped him when it comes to his care too.

It is important to understand that she is actually showing you respect by discussing this matter with you.

Ahh, that may explain it. You have a finite amount of time and energy. Taking care of your SO is enough without having to deal with the strange dynamic between him and his kids.

I am glad you are feeling better and that you have an escape clause waiting if you need it.

No Open Eyes, the daughter did not "let me know what the family will do." She kept badgering me, saying over and over that "I don't know what he wants . . . I don't know what he wants." She's done this to me twice in the past ten years and been told before that I don't appreciate it. 7 years ago, I told her brother that I don't appreciate it, and he said "I told her not to do that."

If she earnestly wants to know if her dad has preferences, then why wait till he falls asleep and ask me. Then when I share with her that he has said, "Just walk away and let the VA bury me," why keep badgering me. And we had this discussion 10 years ago and 7 years ago.

This is a mind game. It is not about respect. It is about money.

She's not asking what I want, and I don't even expect that she should. She keeps harping on cremation as "the way to go because it saves money." I don't argue with her on that. But she is wanting something from me that she keeps pushing for. That's a mind game.

I understand that full service funerals are expensive and that his children resent that he is leaving behind no funds to pay for final arrangements. If she was straightforward and said, "My father's burial is going to be a simple affair, economical because he leaves behind no money, and we have our own families to think of. That would be honest. What she is doing is not straightforward, nor honest and sincere.

But, yes, she wants to be perceived as "Lady Bountiful." She never ask if I had any preferences. When I broke down and told her I do have a concern, she showed no respect for it. She didn't say, "Yes, there can be a Mass with his body present," as conforms with our religious traditions, and that's good of you, Rose, to want to pay for it. That would be respectful. What she is doing is bullying. And making herself look better than her sibs, when I have no knowledge of their intentions.

This is a ACOA, while perhaps this is an unhealthy exchange, it can be a result of the family dysfunction issues. You know for yourself this man is not easy to live with and spend time with.

It's hard for me to nail it without actually meeting this woman. It seems like she uses alcohol to avoid her feelings too. While you on the other hand are a responsible and knowledgable individual. That you showed in that meeting you had with her and your s/o too.

Just because someone makes good money, doesn't actually mean they outgrew their family dysfunction and the ACOA within.

Yes, I think this family had a history of dysfunction. I can't fix that for them. I guess she is more damaged by her past than I realized.

I have plenty of problems of my own. I think the encounter we had over the past week got to bringing out the damaged child in each of us.

Yes, that really sounds like what was really taking place. Also the both of you were the only ones to "try" to interact with this "lost man" too. My guess is this daughter is feeling a lot like you, stressed about how it went. You did mention how she seemed to lean on the alcohol to help her with this challenge.

I honestly think she was leaning on you, I think she is "lost" with this entire situation. I think she was "always" lost when it came to her father. Out of all his children, she has been the only one at least "trying". Take a moment and think about how he has affected you too Rose.

The problem with "alcoholism" is that the individual stops "growing" up. Instead, they hide out in the alcohol and never truely "mature". That is what you are dealing with in this man, what his children also had to deal with too.

I have had to deal with this myself too Rose. It really hit me when I worked with a family counselor in an effort to figure out what to do about my challenged marriage. This counselor told me that my husband only had the maturity level of a 12/13 year old. He told me that he would push my buttons constantly to mother him, and I had to refuse to do so. Well, that was a lot of work for a young woman like me. Honestly, that is what this man has always done with you too Rose, what his daughter was also doing with you while he was sleeping.

One has to consider what the reality of a 12/13 year old really is as that is often an alcoholic's maturity level. They are manipulative, they don't quite understand "grown up" stuff. Yet, some of them can make good money and be productive, however, they see the world at their level of maturity only. When a family member has that disease, it really does affect their entire family. That is what you have not only lived yourself, but also this daughter who sat with you one to one.

When I experienced a great deal of loss, it was too much and I broke down with "post traumatic stress". What I began to feel like is me being the one trying the hardest to be the "adult" crashed and I could not seem to verbalize that when I reached out for help. Often you are surprised by me because I seem to know that part of you, well, yes, because it takes one to know one.

It doesn't really all boil down to the money, there is more there than just that. This daughter was the only child to even think about taking out a life insurance policy on this man, and she is expressing how her siblings are going to harass her for that if they find out.

It's so hard to step back from a picture when one is somehow "in that picture".

One day I was talking to my therapist about how nice it is to have someone like him that can actually "listen" and not get all emotional or defensive with me. He said to me, that is because I am not "in" your picture so I don't have that kind of stake in it. He said, however, he would struggle to do the same if the challenges were in his own family as he would be "in" that picture and unknowlingly be on some kind of defensive.

This man that has been in your life for so many years has produced "dysfunction" in your life, but not only "your life" but anyone who is connected to him. So, that is the only thing you are going to experience and is just what you experienced this past week.

Actually, the daughter didn't think of getting insurance herself. I did . . . 6 years ago. I knew that, given he was unlikely to live a whole lot longer, money spent on insurance premiums would give a very impressive return on investment. So I had him take out a policy, and then I offered it to his daughter. I said he might not be reliable paying the premiums, but he would be willing to sign ownership of the policy over to her. She accepted the offer and then was so impressed with the return on the money that she tripled the coverage. Had he died during the first two years of the policy, it would not have paid the face value, but it would have returned all premiums plus a rate of interest well above most other investments would earn, given how the economy has been . . . something like 12 percent. She never would have thought to do this on her own, but now is very glad she did. A few years after took the policy, she doubled it. A few years later, she tripled it. That was smart of her. I knew she was bright enough to see what a good opportunity it was, once I got the ball rolling for her.

Now she is really looking forward to the payout, and I'm glad. And that is her money to do as she likes with. She doesn't have to spend a nickel of it on a funeral for her dad. She advised her sibs on the opportunity and suggested they might want to do the same thing. They declined. She makes the most money, and the monthly premium costs her about 3 or 4 hour's of wages. I'm so glad I initiated this investment. I did so because I had been asked about "insurance money" by his kids, when their dad went through a very serious illness. ( Of course, they ask me . . . never their dad.)

I appreciate the insights you share, Open Eyes, and they are most valid. A thing I know that you aren't in a position to know is that these adult children are extremely money conscious. That's fine. It has served them well, and they are all financially successful. Their father, like most alcoholics who have descended into homelessness, is not. That has always been a sore spot with them. They always made it clear that they would never let their father's problems cost them any money. And that's fine. I needed years in Al-Anon to teach me what they knew instinctively.

I learned over the years to make prudent investments in helping him rebuild his life . . . like dental care to make his physical appearance presentable so he had a better chance at employment. I paid for job training for him. These investments proved very wise, and he got work and paid me back what I invested in him. He's been sober 17 years and has become so much more responsible. But, yes, he does have deficits in his maturation. He didn't quite evolve into the sort of partner I could live with happily. So that's why I don't. He's my best friend, and we make the most of our friendship.

I think I've digressed pretty far. I grew up in a family where love means that sometimes you risk investing money in someone who is down and out. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. You shouldn't enable, but once in a while you provide support. My s/o's kids see all that as being a sucker. Their own mother told me that her kids were inclined to be cold toward me because they don't want to get sucked into their father's problems, and she was sorry for the lack of warmth shown to me. I lost a kind friend, when she died.

You're right that there is a much bigger picture than the immediate issues. Part of that picture is three decades of stand-offishness toward me. I've been treated hurtfully so often that I minimize my contact with them. With the daughter coming out, I thought this was a chance to normalize relations a bit. For awhile it seemed like this was about her appreciating me. I really fell for that and we warmly embraced when I took her to the plane. I came home and enthused to my boyfriend how nice a person his daughter really was. Now that's blown up in my face. I didn't tread lightly enough on the eggshells. Now I'm the bad one, who didn't appreciate her coming out. As she said, "This is the thanks I get! after coming out for five days!"

That sounds pretty egotistical to me. Okay, so I can't expect her to act right because she had a father who drank. We could all find one excuse or another for not acting right. My parents drank too. Her father's reckless drinking started after his wife divorced him, when this daughter was 21 years of age. She and her sibs have always told me that their childhood was happy. They did not grow up with a chronically drunk father. They relate no tails of abuse. He became one of those drunks who essentially only abused himself.

Hmm, he crashed because of a divorce, I didn't know that Rose. Wow, you are such a good person to help him in all the ways you did. Did he ever discuss his history with you?
Did his wife ever explain to you "why" she divorced him?

I have been following this thread and was also thinking that the daughter was well within her rights to be acting this way UNTIL you just posted this last bit of info. Dad wasn't so horrible after all and the daughter IS just being greedy!!! So sorry for you to have to go through this Rose!

Yes, he told me the story of his life early in the relationship. One of the things I liked about him was that he spoke so well of his ex-wife. Then I met her and I liked her too. I could see they weren't very companionable to each other. She was way tougher than him, and I mean that in a good way. He can be pretty child-like, someone who needs a leader to follow. I think she decided she needed a stronger man. (Also, one with a better pension plan.) She told me that she realized a few years into the marriage that he wasn't who she wanted to spend her life with. Then, when her kids were almost all grown up, she met someone she clicked with. I liked him too. In fact, my s/o liked him.

But his ex-wife did say my s/o had been a good father, very loving. Also, a good provider and helpful around the house. As I know, myself, he can also be immature. They got married real young, without knowing each other more than a month. They were two exceptionally good looking people. But a relationship needs more than that. I could never imagine the two of them holding an hour long conversation with each other. In the end, that's what a relationship is all about. Sounded like they had lots of fun when the family was young and then grew apart, as the kids grew up. They were both sporadic drinkers who didn't get along when they drank.

I don't know that I'm such a good person. More like I was naiive. I would now advise any young woman to run from any man with a substance abuse problem. If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't, but, then, I was very in love. And there is no explaining that. Much more suitable men had come in to my life. But the chemistry happens when it happens.

I'm real sorry I blew it with his daughter. I never should have got drawn into the conversation about final arrangements. I don't live with him. That means I should have different boundaries with his children. Now things will be awkward with them and we'll just avoid each other, like we've always tended to do. We have different values, and there is no papering that over.

Also, my involvement with him didn't lead to anything good for me over the long haul. But it was better for me than being alone. I've grown up finally in some ways. I feel I'll be alright when he is gone, feeling pretty complete by myself. Right now tending to his needs gets tedious, at times. Moral support from his kids would have meant a lot. But I'll give up on that. I've done without it all these years. This is not really any big change.