Husband's ex-secretary sent him pictures of her pole dancing

Hi guys. I am sad today. It's been almost a month since I first posted my "problem" and just want to vent...I let you guys know that I am seeing a therapist by myself...and that's going well. But hubby and I are also seeing a couples therapist every 2 weeks...(which I think is a cover for him to say, "Hey, I tried this thing and it still didn't work" so that HE doesn't look bad to friends and family. Anyway, our "communication" was good for the two weeks, but I brought up my complete anxiety and insecurities with other women. I told myself I wasn't going to, because that's when he gets mad and defensive....well, once I said, "I never got over those phone messages and it haunts me every day....." he immediately said, "Well, then it's over." Am I wrong in thinking that if he wanted to truly save this marriage he would talk with me about it and make me feel secure about it? He LIED and said he NEVER heard the messages. He also told the therapist I have free reign over his voicemail and email (which I don't...remember, he changed password and doesn't know I do know it)...He didn't look good in front of her and it blew him away and he shut down.......but, I'm the one feeling bad...

Shouldn't he be the one feeling bad? I told myself not to bring it up because but those calls are really hurting me and keeping me from moving on. He insisted he doesn't know what I am talking about...blah, blah, blah.

Support and advice please. I think he thought he was winning because we were working on positive talking and him needing love from me and then tables turned to me not trusting him....He said, "You don't love me if you don't trust me." Therapist said....she can still love you...but trust would have to be built up....he said that's not true....on and on....really, I feel he was trying to make himself look good in front of her.....

Now, she laughs at things he says and such...but is she DUMB enough to believe all he is saying or does she just maybe belive me...........

Sadness is among me again! (((

He is in it to be out of it...you are right...it is the appearance that he tried everything and it just didn't help that he is working on.

His actions have proven where he is on this. I'm sorry that he is not in it to be in it.

It could be that he's feeling defensive (whether he has reason to or not) which is not to say you are making him feel that way, but that he's got his own hangups and insecurities and reacting to them. I know I use to be very defensive when my honesty was questioned, even though you don't know a more honest person :-) It took a long time before I could not take other people's perceptions and ideas about me as being about "Me" at all. "Your mother wears combat boots" doesn't bother 99.9% of people but there's that one whose mother does or did wear combat boots, etc. LOL

But, I agree with you, in a perfect world he should be supporting you and interested in talking with you and decreasing your fears and jumping through whatever reasonable hoops you requested to help you get over your dread of what the phone calls mean/were, and your suspicions, etc.

I wouldn't jump too fast though that he's necessarily guilty and that your feelings/hunches are 100% correct and/or that he's feeling guilty and thus responding because of that; but it looks like your T knows what's going on so I'd try and figure out which way to "jump" from that, whether the whole thing is worth battling through and if there's hope for him, etc.

Direction, who is a man, has said much that it true here, and in few words! LIsten to him, Sadmommy!
This could turn into a long and convoluted process for you...couples counseling, and his playing the couselor, getting her to laugh... Is she laughing with disdain or joining in with his humor? Therein lies the rub! If he is getting validation from her feedback, while you are hurting, how is this helping you. If the counselor is perceptive and formulating helpful opinions, then perhaps it is worth it.
I'm just not reading much about the couple's counseling that sounds positive from your perspective.
Look at your life now, and ask yourself if this is what you want for the remainder of your time.
Love
Patty

i second what Patty and Direction are saying.

and about time, it passes awfully fast while he's playing with your mind and doing whatever it is that he's doing on the side. before you know it, a year will go by and you may still be in pain, there with him putting you down...........xoxoxo pat

I don't feel that you are wrong in trying to find out the truth. It is your right to know if someone is being true to you or not. I'm in a similar situation but I'm not married to my significant other. I don't understand why you can't tell him you know about all this stuff.

I find myself being soooo busy lately that I'm "shoving" aside what is going on...which is great for my husband because I'm not sad in his face, talking about stuff he doesn't want to talk about, etc. However, I still have the uneasy stomach all day long.

Hi, Sadmommy...
Been there, done that...for 20 years, in fact.
You can do this kind of thing for a very long time...a whole lifetime, numb yourself and go on, which sounds like what you're doing....like I did.
At the same time, it's no picnic out there alone either. If you are determined to make your marriage work, maybe you'll find a way. I've never regretted for one minuted divorcing my husband, no grieving whatsoever, since I had wanted out during the entire duration, only waiting till my daughter left for college to leave myself.
At the same time, I look back on this as my weakness and insecurity that I could make it on my own, or that I would receive any kind of financial help from him if I did leave, listening to and believing his threats that I would "be out in the street with nothing, and my daughter taken away from me." I was so browbeaten and believed him.
In retrospect, I think I could have asserted myself and had some rights and gotten some support.
Are you conflicted about what you want to do? Do you feel you love the man? If so, maybe the counseling will help you arrive at a good and balanced decision.
Patty

I would be upset too.. And the whole thing about "this relationship is on you" Thats a bunch of bull. A relationship takes TWO people. He needs to do his part too. I would find it really strange that first he's not telling you that someone sent him inappropriate pictures, secondly, he didn't want you to go to work with him... What does he have to hide?? If there was nothing to hide, then he wouldn't have to keep you from work or anything else for that matter. So, no. You weren't wrong for going through his things.. He doesn't give you a reason to trust him, so thats all the reason more to go through his things.

Thanks Seeker and FeFe. I need to be reminded and not blinded of what really has taken place. I ready your posts and am back to reality. Seeker, through counseling I think I'm finding out that I don't love him...that so much has gone on that I am actually starting to detest him. But being together so long in "hopes" puts me into feeling I will stay because of the house and kids. I CANNOT get past the voicemail messages and him telling me he never heard them. He is flat out lying and I think about this 95% of my day. It's killing me and I can't seem to get past it.

I pretend in front of him that I'm working on ME to make a better ME. But I'm actually trying to find out how to survive day and by feeling so sad.

FeFe, he will play the minds games of "when have I ever disrespected you" "you don't trust me because you don't love me" "I love you but you dont' love me" "if you stood by my side we wouldn't be going thru all this crap" ... so there again, it's ME and it works...I start believing it's me and then I go into this shell....((

I have counseling today at 4. I will share how it goes...thanks you guys!

I look forward to hearing how counseling is helping you.

You may find yourself feeling as I did, that the house and material things are not so important compared to your own happiness and emotional well-being.

Love
Patty

I agree with Patty...

By the way - why pretend around him? Have you done any prep work we talked about? It doesn't mean anythings final - it just means you are prepared.

Direction...I read your prep quite often to help keep me focused. I don't have any extra money to put aside. I did start making copies of all our bills and such....so I have record of everything. I am not staying focused at all on anything and I am forgetting everything! My therapist says it's all stress related.

I feel attacked by him. I came home from counseling yesterday and he was accusing me of having a bad attitude. He said counseling isn't working for me because I'm still mean to him...he's not reaping any of the benefits. he was in my face pointing his finger. I told him to stop and he said no, I'll point my finger if I want. Our youngest told us to stop yelling. (

He went to sleep and mood was still "mad" when he woke up. I tried to talk with him and be all sweet (I don't know why I tried to hug him..I just wanted some peace, but feel I shouldn't have done it). He's really angry.

What is he so mad at? I found a note in his car last night that had this on it:

** Not sure what is going on...Blind to what I can show and deaf to what I say. Vibrant woman who I can no longer relate to. ONly sees what is important to her. Direction, what is he saying here and crying out for?

I would take the words literally...Doesn't know what's going on in your relationship, Doesn't think you can see what love he is capable of giving, Doesn't think you hear what he says, He finds you vigorous and animated; however, can't relate to you, thinks you don't see what's important to him.

It is a lot of what I was feeling towards my wife before she became my ex.

I struggle with this. In a lot of ways this could be a good starting point for marriage counseling. Based on what you've described over the past month...this is the first sign of some kind of reflection on the relationship from him. Though incomplete...What do each of you want from the marriage and each other. Although there is so much blame and responsibility pushed your way...If you want this to work...somehow you will need to both acknowledge things done wrong, sincerely apologize for the action, and forgive one another. (Tougher for you to forgive I would think considering trust has been breached). I don't know that he would be able to own his half of the gap? Both of your needs are not being met - can he accept that you could probably write the same words about him?

Final thoughts:

I'm glad that you have some prep work happening. I really do think it essential in all this.

I think he is projecting his emotions on to you about the bad attitude or he is not accepting his part in this.

I would watch the pretending everything is all right that you are doing. It's time to be assertive (no doormat and no aggressiveness) regarding the realities of your marriage with him.

Wishing you the best...

Yes, I did a lot of that "hugging" thing during my 20 years unhappily married. It did soften things, though my own feelings never really changed one bit! I think maybe you do still love your husband, so the hugs may have some basis of feeling, whereas I had no feeling whatsoever!
I think he should be encouraging you in seeking counseling, rather than punishing you!
Love
Patty

Personally I think the going to work and listening to the voice mail and accessing work e-mail is wrong. If you are suspicious, hire a private detective. Let them tell you if anything is going on or not. In your state, you can easily misinterprate voice mails or e-mails because you are expecting the worst. I can tell you this because it happened to me. My girlfriend was a snooper. She would go to my apartment and listen to my answering machine. I caught her doing it several times. She would dig through drawers and closets trying to find "evidence" of infidelity. She found a picture key ring of me and a college girlfriend that was in my old college backpack in the back of my closet and got mad about it. I forgot I even had it. It finally got better and after 10 years of dating we got married. After 2 years of marriage she started again with the snooping. She hired a PI (she doesn't know that I know about it) who found out that I went to work, came straight home, and bowled once a week on Tuesday nights. No bars, no strip clubs, no mistresses etc. I didn't have a problem with that if it eased her mind becuse the PI has an open mind and isn't "Expecting" to find something bad.

I'm sorry Cajun - I really don't think wasting money on a PI is a good idea (I also think snooping is a waste of time).

Prepare and get counseling. Be assertive about your marriage - sadmommy...

Thanks you guys....I always need help with my thinking processes as of late! I did look into a PI but it was going to cost me about $100 for one hour. Then I thought about it and it wasn't worth it.

Cajun, thanks for your input. It made me think how I needed to think. However, I gave my husband an opportunity to "fix" the phone calls by asking him to go listen to them together and he flat out refused...then he went and erased them and changed his password. So if he had nothing to hide, he would have done that for me. I truly feel that way. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Direction, thanks, as always!

I think you probably know that answer...

SadMommy;

I had to reply to you. I am a male, been married to the same woman for 34 years. Your situation is pretty common in marriages. As we get older we men tend to lose our focus in life. Some get a divorce and hook up with a young gold digger. Some just want to be alone so they can play the field, so to speak. Then there are those that like to play "flirting games". Some men like having female friends
to talk with other than their wife. This last type walks a fine line and can get into a lot of trouble. I speak from experiance. Wanting to feel desirable from another woman is a great feeling for a man but, he has to know how to control himself. It is nearly impossable to be platonic friends with another woman while married. It leads to disaster. Getting involved with another woman while married will be found out. A wife dosen't have to snoop to know that something is wrong. Men are not as sly as they think they are, it will be found out, they will get caught.
The biggest problem will be the ability to trust again. With you having been burned once before it will likely be impossible to trust again.
You and your husband need to speak frankly to each other.
Ask him if he wants your marriage to continue. If he wants out, then let him go.You can't do anything to stop him. If he says he wants to stay then lay out some ground rules.
No e-mails, no messages without you knowing it. No late at the office without you being able to verify it.
In 34 years I have not always been faithful but, for the last 25 I have been. It was a long hard road back to getting the trust again but, I made a commitment years ago and I intend to keep it.
Good luck to you and I hope it will work out.

50 guy...I sent you a PM...please read it.

I think my mind is playing tricks on me because I want to believe what I heard was really not a big deal. But I also feel if it wasn't a big deal, he would have said, "Ok, let's go to my job and listen to what you are talking about." But he didn't...he just kicked me in my leg and slapped my face because I said, "IF you are a real man, you'd do this for me." He said, "Don't you ever question my manhood again". Mind you guys, this was as of the end of March. It is now almost June. When the bruise showed on my leg I showed him and he said, "That's nothing compared to the emotional abuse you've given me over the past 10 years."

So, here I am....still struggling....trying to make most of my day-by-days....going to counseling....going thru the cycle. But I"M NOT OKAY!!!!

You hadn't mentioned this event...

Time to get to somewhere safe - today would be good. No man or woman should ever strike another person.

Please, please do something today - restraining order, change locks, something...

OH, my gosh...he kicked and slapped you!!!???
It is good that you are getting responses from men on the forum. They seem to have some insights which are helpful, based upon their own experiences.
Your husband sounds like a man-child, prone to violent outbursts, abuse and deception.
Patty

i'm glad that you told about the physical abuse in this thread. i've been very, very concerned for you and the hand-writing is on your leg and face and wherever else he's hit or kicked you..........xoxoxo pat

I've been thinking about you all day and hoping you are somewhere safe.

I felt very physically threatened by my ex-wife - it was so important for me to listen to her that she would block my way, tug at me. When I locked my self in the bathroom - she would try to unlock it and push her way in. When it first started I never looked at her the same.

I know some of you are going to say she weighted 100 and you were double her size. It doesn't matter especially when you flash back to a verbally abuse father who you feared.

Anyway that might be a little off topic, but might give you some insight why I feel so strongly about how wrong it is for a man or woman to use any type of physical fear to get their way.