Mates - Emotionally Unavailable

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sunrise said:
I understand a lot better now about myself, him, why he does this, and why I stayed so long.
Understanding has helped give me the strength to at last let go.

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Would you care to share some of those reasons with ME, maybe it will help to sink into my thick head if I read them from another person (and) I might just see my own reason in the list.

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fayerody said:
I understand what Rhap is feeling and unless he really gets a swift kick and wakes up, it won't get better.

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I so agree................................................

Hey. I guess that I think it sounds like he is scared of intimacy. Probably due to some of his past stuff. I worry that a 'swift kick' might hurt him and make him withdraw from you even more. But then... That could be more to do with my issues, I guess.

I think that Mr Man isn't so terrific at emotional intimacy either. I'm getting that impression from our phone conversations anyway. I will say that I miss him and stuff like that and he doesn't really initiate anything like that though he is kind to me when I express that kind of stuff. I think he might be a bit afraid of intimacy.

But that being said he does thoughtful things to show me that he cares. Sending me books and stuff like that. I think guys can be a little more action rather than emotional expression oriented. I wonder if he thinks that he was doing something nice for you (and for the kids of course) to entertain them for a while to give you some time to yourself.

I wonder if marriage / couples therapy could help. It would provide a bit of a forum or arena for both of you to talk about things that you would like in your marriage. It might be that there are things that he wants / needs that he has difficulty communicating to you. It might be that he doesn't really understand what it is that you want / need. When people are afraid of emotional intimacy I guess they are afraid of sharing about that kind of stuff. Become emotionally avoidant instead. Sounds like he does care about you it is just that he is having a little difficulty expressing it...

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alexandra_k said:
Hey. I guess that I think it sounds like he is scared of intimacy. Probably due to some of his past stuff.

But that being said he does thoughtful things to show me that he cares.
I wonder if marriage / couples therapy could help.

It might be that he doesn't really understand what it is that you want / need.

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I personally believe it to be that HE is afraid of intimacy with any one he cares to much about- fear of being hurt, left or abandoned....... and that is a death sentence to a marriage.

I know it is not because he does not know what I want - for after 21 years of marriage TRUST ME - I have told him what I need over and over again.... his FEAR stops him from giving more.
I have been thinking about going in for couples counseling, but then again we have done that before and I personally believe that he needs individual counseling before we can work on us.

And YES...... my husband does little caring things for ME too - but as a female I need emotional time and loving on a weekly basis if not every other day, that which I have learned that my husband in not able to give to me or to any one who is an older female.

My FEAR..... he may loose me before he will think of getting help or changing and then it is to late.
... at least I can say I tried and gave it my all - if I leave.

I have a QUESTION - and please be HONEST in your REPLY.

Am I being shallow and uncaring IF - - - I decide to leave my 21 year marriage when I know that my husband has an intimacy issue / fear of being close with those that he cares the most about - does that make me a heel when I know he loves me with all his heart, but just can't show it as he feels it inside?

I am kind of going thru the same stuff with my hubby. we have been together 10 yrs and I swear someone turned off a lightswitch with him. use to he held me all the time or couldn't keep his hands off me. now we rarely do anything at all. when he is home he sits in his little office and me in the living room. it is very frustrating. also he is a non communicator. he never tells me deep stuff and never has. *sigh*

if it is something you just can not live without then you are not a heel. I am sorry though that it might come to that after 21 yrs together. is he willing to get counseling? I would try everything possible before leaving.

no one is a heel by wanting to have a complete marriage. never. i have a term for people who don't give what they receive...."emotionally lazy".....

it is hard work, day in and day out, to be "there" and to be present at all times. women have to do more of it because we're traditionally the caregivers and do all of the maternal things naturally. (well, some do) '

some people aren't willing to give of themselves, fully, to be in a relationship.....i have a friend who admits that he's too emotionally lazy to sustain a long term relationship. i also have a woman friend who feels the same about herself.

"giving" comes from a core within ourselves and if we've had things taken away before, it can become almost impossible to offer someone else a piece of the pie. and i'm not saying that it can't be learned, because i believe that it is a reachable goal. the person just has to want it with all of their heart and soul and be willing to take two steps forward and one step back during the process.....

you aren't a heel, Rhap.....you're a lonely woman who is in love with her husband and feels very neglected. whatever you decide to do, it will be the best for you......xoxoxo pat

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bebop said:
if it is something you just can not live without then you are not a heel.

I am sorry though that it might come to that after 21 yrs together. is he willing to get counseling? I would try everything possible before leaving.

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Yes..... he would probably try counseling with me if I started it back with my T - but then again we have done this before and we find ourselves but "once again" back at square one in this giving thing and with his fear of me.

I personally do not think I can live with out emotional intimacy in the man I share my life with - so I guess it is just a matter of time.

I do understand. I have thought about leaving so many times. I love my husband dearly and want us to work out. it is just so hard when he doesn't talk. but he can get on the phone with family or friends and yack away. sure gives me a complex.

if you left then i wouldn't think you are a bad person or anything like that. but that being said... i wouldn't give up on him just yet. the 'for better or worse' thing... well... i think that there is hope for a better marriage though he does need to understand that this really is a serious issue when you are starting to contemplate leaving him over it.

> I personally believe it to be that HE is afraid of intimacy with any one he cares to much about- fear of being hurt, left or abandoned...

he needs to understand that you are thinking of realising his worst fears (leaving him) if he doesn't open himself up to a little more intimacy with you.

> I have been thinking about going in for couples counseling, but then again we have done that before and I personally believe that he needs individual counseling before we can work on us.

maybe... you could try and find a therapist who would see you both for couples work and who would agree to take on either or both of you individually if they felt that there could be a benefit to that? it might be... that your husband isn't very good at expressing himself. his feelings and stuff. sometimes guys who find that hard try and express their appreciation and caring through actions (those little caring things)... and they simply don't understand what women get out of emotional connection. they don't understand...

> My FEAR..... he may loose me before he will think of getting help or changing and then it is to late.
... at least I can say I tried and gave it my all - if I leave.

sounds like marriage / couples councelling would be worth a go. to tell him how serious this situation is and why you might be leaving at any rate.

i'm sorry things are hard.

I hear what you all are saying and I HATE that LIFE & LOVE has to be so darn HARD..... it just semms like life keeps getting worse and never better. *big sigh*

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Rhapsody said:
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sunrise said:
I understand a lot better now about myself, him, why he does this, and why I stayed so long. Understanding has helped give me the strength to at last let go.

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Would you care to share some of those reasons with ME, maybe it will help to sink into my thick head if I read them from another person (and) I might just see my own reason in the list.

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Here are a couple of books I read on verbal and emotional abuse that were very good. I highly recommend them. I know you said that your husband was not doing this on purpose to harm you, so these books may not be as good a fit for you as for me. But they really helped me understand more my husband's patterns and motivations for treating me the way he did/does (I have been married for 20 years and have started divorce proceedings). In the first book, it talks quite a bit about a pattern that some emotional abusers have called "withholding." That is my guy.

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. This book was instrumental in helping me realize that what I was experiencing was abuse. It's still hard for me to say that word....

No Visible Wounds: Identifying Non-physical Abuse of Women by their Men Really thoughtful book--hit home for me.

Both of these books provide insights into why women don't leave emotionally abusive relationships. Rhapsody, there might be some overlap with your situation (why you are still in the relationship), even though I don't think you have said your husband is abusive.

Rhapsody, if you tried couples counseling again, could you go to a different therapist than before? A new person might have a new approach that would be more helpful. I think in particular, a caring, strong male therapist who could model his skill at forming intimate relationships with his clients might be really helpful to your husband. He could see how it is done, that men can indeed do it, and use the therapist as a model for his own behavior. I agree with alex_k that it would be very helpful if you could get a therapist who would consent to do both individual and couples therapy (not all family therapists will provide this).

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at least I can say I tried and gave it my all - if I leave

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I hope you will give your husband warning that you will leave unless things change. Then he has a chance to realize how very very serious this is and to make his decision: is he willing to try to improve the marriage? At least he will be warned of the consequences (the end of the marriage) if he chooses to do nothing.

Hang in there, Rhapsody.

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sunrise said:
I hope you will give your husband warning that you will leave unless things change. Then he has a chance to realize how very very serious this is and to make his decision: is he willing to try to improve the marriage?

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Don't worry I will not leave with out giving him enough time to do some thing about this, if he decides to do such - IF!

BTW this is issue is not new to either one of us... we have been battling it for some time now.

I strongly believe in the golden rule, therefore, I will only do unto him what I would want done to me.

Ok....... We talked yesterday.

............... Eyes swelled with tears.

..................... I went to bed first, feel asleep alone.

............................ He came to bed later on - I felt him place his arms around me.

that sounds sweet! does he "tease" you? by that I mean come up and act like he wants you then nothing?

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bebop said:
that sounds sweet! does he "tease" you? by that I mean come up and act like he wants you then nothing?

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NO, not any more.............................. and I would love that - - for I like little foreplay teasing that can last all week long - - but he says he would rather not start some thing that he does not feel up to finishing at the moment, therefore, I usually have to wait until he wants it.

....................... *Cheers* to the Good Old Days.

my hubby does that. then nothing. it is frustrating. oh he could finish it but he don't. *sigh*

A 32 year marriage on paper doesn't make it anything more than that when there is no partnership in my mind. It is a marriage that shouldn't have been in the first place....looking back, I should have gone with my gut feelings & not have been talked into it at the beginning. I think I was never cut out to be married. I never had the caring personality nor did I ever want to be a mother.......so basically, neither of us was cut out to be in this relationship. He needed a wife that would take care of him & believe every word he said without questioning him or telling him he was full of it when he was. I needed a partner in the 100% area who was willing to share everything all the work & all the fun. I needed a person who would let me be me & I wanted a person who could be himself while letting me be me. That was my idea of a partnership & I explained what I needed before I got married. I was completely open about my needs & hoped that my explaination would be understood & if not possible, then we would discuss it & not end up getting married. That didn't happen, & the marriage wasn't what I needed.

The fights got bad & I was angry because after awhile, I was told that he thought I would change & that I didn't mean what I said before getting married. He hadn't grown up in a family like that, so he didn't understand....I didn't grow up in a family like that either, but I knew that was what I needed so that I could be the person I knew I wanted to be for myself

It took years, but finally, the past 12 years we have been completely separated even though we have been under the same roof...I finally became so unhappy with the marriage that I couldn't stand being married to him anymore & it seemed unfair to use the marriage for anything at all if I was that unhappy.

Unfortunately until now, there hasn't been the right time to end the marriage & leave to become the person I lost when I got married. The marriage only stayed together because of the things we could afford by putting both our incomes together when we had a career. Then the house couldn't sell for what we owed on it & there was no where for me to go & he couldn't afford it on his salary alone either. Then there were times when I was ill both pysically & mentally. The rough time when I was dealing with the horrible trauma I went through with my Mothers death. Then came his times for problems. There were many times where we could have come together, but it never happened....just got worse & only reinforced all the feelings I have had about the marriage

It's sad, but there isn't one thing I am going to miss when I walk away after all these years. I wanted someone I could share life with the things I enjoy, the good times, the bad.....but the key word is share & partnership. For me, without that, there is no marriage & I can't be emotionally available when I feel that way about the marriage.....because in my mind a marriage has to be both or it is nothing.

Just my thoughts on the subject,
Debbie

I can relate totally....

I did have an affair.... I dont recommend it at all for soooo many reasons....

How do I cope/deal... sometimes I get into tiffs with hubby about it...sometimes I eat.... sometimes I start to re think the affair thing....sometiems I swear I am going to get divorced and find me someone that can provide me with what I need emotionally.... sometimes I come here... sometimes I vent to friends....sometimes I write poems about it.... but the thing that helps me the most is God....I find prayer helps....

and then when I have left others before it all turned out the same way again with new partners. *sigh*

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bebop said:
and then when I have left others before it all turned out the same way again with new partners. *sigh*

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I believe this to be due to the fact that we (humans) will continue to pick partners that are the same way until we have personally healed and grown past our own wounded issues / past...... this is what the book and site I mentioned in my first post is all about, good reading.

I don't know hon. I know my current husband is much different than any I have ever been with. it was like someone turned off the lightswitch. I won't get married again I don't think if this one goes out the window.

(((((Bebop)))))))

EJ

thanks hon. right now I need em. so angry right now. hurt.