[Cyran0]

My wife and I rarely fight. We're both too passive aggressive for that. Instead we internalize, pout, throw nasty looks and ignore each other. Ironically, I think at certain times we pat ourselves on the back for not being at each other's throats. Not anymore.

We just got done fighting and I feel horrible. Not sad. Just empty and hopeless. Now I'm sitting in the living room with my cat Ferris. This is where we'll both be sleeping tonight. I'm sure right now my wife is nursing our youngest and sobbing in our bed and there's nothing I can do. Pandora's box was opened and the evil came pouring out.

It was a long, busy day for me. Working all day can wear anybody out but then I was stuck in a three hour commute due to the snow. I came in the door after eight and I said hi to each of my kids, kissed my wife, took a shower and made myself something to eat. I was exhausted and my four year old wanted me to play video games. I couldn't face it so I said that daddy just needed to chill for awhile.

And God I did. But my wife needed to clean the kitchen and the baby was crying so instead of chilling out for a bit, I was stuck trying to comfort a screaming infant. With each passing minute I got more and more angry. He wanted Mom and Mom's been on vacation all week. Sure she was with the kids but it was nine at night and Dad still just needed a bit of time and she could sure as hell hear the kid crying.

When she finally finished and took him to feed him I came on PC. I just wanted to zone out with you all for awhile. But apparently I was on too long and the kids needed to be tucked in and I didn't get off the computer quickly enough.

My wife stopped talking to me. She didn't say why, she just stomped around, brushing past me with an accusing look on her face. All I could think was %#@&#! you too. We got the baby in his pajamas and I held him while she went through her bathroom routine. When she came into our bedroom she still had that same pinched, hostile face. She still wasn't talking.

I asked what the problem was and she laid into me about not playing with our kid when he asked and about how I spend too much time online and so on. I started calmly explaining that I was just exhausted from work and driving in the storm but this wasn't good enough. Her list of complaints continued.

Images from my day flickered through my head like the flash frames of a horror film. When could I have done more? Where wasn't I giving what I could? And here she was chewing me out, her eyes welling up with tears that just didn't make sense to me. Anguish and hurt and frustration welled up inside me and suddenly...I exploded.

Not loud but the anger was there. So was the hate and the sarcasm. It flowed out of me like bile. I told her that "I give up." Day in and day out I'd given all I could and that I had nothing left. So congratulations for being a better person than me but I still had nothing else to give.

She wasn't expecting this. She became quiet and hurt but I had now built up %#@&#! momentum. Uncorked and my screws loose, I just couldn't shut up. I proceeded to tell her how she doesn't notice what anyone else in the house is doing or going through. How she didn't appreciate %#@&#! but still climbed up on her %#@&#! cross whenever she got overwhelmed. I explained that I was the one who played with the kids instead of just bossing them around. I did every bit as much around the house and I asked for nothing in return, not even sex. I told her that she was a hundred times more self involved than she thinks and I'd had enough. "I'll be on the %#@&#! couch," was my clever ending.

And so here I am, on the couch, realizing that I meant the things I'd said. And feeling terribly unappreciated. After all, how many guys clean the kitchen or make dinner or put the kids to bed or give them baths? How many shrug and say ok when turned down for sex the majority of the time? And how many do this with my problems?

And if I'm wrong and this is what everyone does, then I guess I'm just not up to it.

I'm also feeling like I haven't been in love with my wife for some time. It's like a partnership in a company where we raise kids. We're coworkers. And then I feel guilty for saying that because I do feel this tenderness for her that's kind of broken and sad.

I don't know. I'm just feeling like I'm all out of stoicism. I come in dead last in the priority list of everyone I know and I can't do it anymore. I feel like everyone wants something from me and if anything, that feeling alone will be my undoing.

Cyran0

[nowheretorun]

if you want peace.... be peaceful? kindness to you my friend...

[bigamyst]

(((((Cyran0)))))
The baby years are tough, and I wish I had some clever advice for you. But I can tell you that my kids got older, hubby and I managed to re-connect. Give it time - the best part of marriage is falling in love again ... Will be thinking of you

[heyjoe]

I understand what you are saying cyrano, right down to the 3 hour commute in the snow. When you are tired everything seems worse. I think that we are the lowest priority in most families and sometimes it gets frustrating or depressing. Your wife probably had a long day with the kids and you had a long day and you get to the point where you just let it go. I actually think that that is healthy. Holding things in all the time is no good for your health. ITs also important to let her know that you feel underappreciated. It maybring to her attention things that she has taken for granted and not thought of for a while. At the least it clears the air. You are definitely not alone in feeling underappreciated despite your best efforts.

[_Hope_]

Cyran0 , I am sorry you are hurting so. I understand what it is like feeling like you are the last priority in your family. I have been through similar events myself. I have been stay at home mom, a working mom and a single working mom. So I have seen and felt things on both sides. I agree with everything you said, I have had days so similar, On the other hand I have been on the other side of the arguement as well.

Here is what you wife might be thinking, if she is anything like me. Being a mom means your job never stops, no breaks no vacations , 24/7 you are on. It is great to get help in that job anytime you can, but when she is low she feels she needs more , just like you felt you had no more to give.

Another huge difference between being a mom and having a regular job, for me anyway, is there are no way to show what she has accomplished for the week, no timely rewards. In a regular job, at the end of the week , you get a pay check that shows you worked all week, that you accomplished something. Depending on which job you have you can see the results of your work, such as deals closed, paperwork completed, possible incentives or awards, maybe even a pat on the back once in awhile from the boss or a coworker.

Meanwhile, back at home the laundry still needs to be done, meals cooked, toys put away, diapers changed, etc. Almost every household chore there is still needs to be done again the next day . The real results of a mom's effort doesn't come until the children are happily mature and well adjusted individuals. Sure there are milestones along the way. Mom can feel proud or happy at baby's 1st step or word, students performance on stage, graduation just to name a few, There are many more but compared to a weekly paycheck they are few and far between.

I have always felt better about myself, when working outside the home. If it were possible that I could be the bread winner of my family and hubby stayed home, I would do it in a heartbeat. Please don't misunderstand , it not that I hate motherhood. I think it is a noble sacrafice to give everything for the wellbeing of others, just that on the bad days it is hard to remember why we do it.

Please be kind all you readers out there. I do not mean to take anything away from Cyran0's post, but merely add to it , as to what might be going on on the other side. I can realate to Cryan0's day, but sometimes when you come home from a stressful day at work, and take a shower to wash away your day and begin to relax, mom has been hearing the baby cry off and on all day, she has had no private time to umwind, even bathroom breaks are usually accompanied, there is no chance to go out to lunch and leave work behind.

I know there is a lot more to this story, but I am constrained to only show part of it in this forum, I really do uderstand both sides and I prefer going to work, cause a bad day at work, to me, is still better than a bad day at home.

Linda

[Perna]

Had a T teach me that one "fight," one bad night is not the entire relationship. How long have you been married? How many kids and times have you done all the wonderful things you do and she's done her part, etc.?

Hope you feel better tomorrow. I don't know if you truly "want" to sleep on the couch; it's your bed too. I'd go in and claim my half to sleep on. You can apologize for being so upset (who wants to feel upset) and "wish" she weren't unhappy. But I'd be as comfortable as possible tonight, get as good a sleep as I could? There's work again tomorrow and more snow to drive through and frustrations to wade through.

[Cyran0]

bpd, I do understand that that's the normal arrangement. But in our home we both work and we both do the housework and raise the kids. That was probably lost in my post because I described one night in which I couldn't face any of it and my wife happens to be on vacation. On a normal night we would both come in the door and I would make dinner, do the dishes, get the kids into the bath, etc. before I even got to sit down. Meanwhile, my wife would have our infant which involves feeding. And while I know it's a pain to be tethered to a hungry mouth, I can't help but feel like on those nights I have the harder job. In any case, most nights neither of us get a break.

I appreciate that you presented the other side so delicately. I was actually anticipating getting lynched and it's nice that it hasn't happened. But even if it does, it's ok. I know that in most cases the mother gets the shaft in the division of labor and so such a reaction would make sense. It's something that, believe it or not, I try to be very aware of.

It also occurs to me that no matter what I say here, I'm probably destined to be the villain.

But in the end, none of it matters. I will continue to do what I've been doing because these are my kids and she and I are partners in raising them.

And it's not like if I woke up tomorrow with a different life I'd be enjoying it any more.

As for updates to this mess, I have no idea. She went Christmas shopping before I got home. I think I'm still on the couch tonight but at the moment, whatever. It doesn't matter.

Cyran0

[_Hope_]

It is funny you mentioned being lynched, because I felt the same when I made my 1st reply. Thanks for the clarification. Two working parents makes life very stressful, It is a sad state of our society when both parents must work to survive.

I do not see you as a villian. I agree you do your share , maybe more of the realtionship. I know some women out there will hate me for saying this, but hormones can play a role in mood too. When I was younger, I really didn't have mood swings but the older I get the more I notice they creep in.

thanks Cyran0 for really hearing what I said ,and not reading more into. That is part of what makes you a great guy

Linda

[Doh2007]

What a bummer! Been there. Hated it.

[LMo]

((( Cyran0 )))

I'm rushing to get something done in the next hour, but I just wanted to send kind thoughts over to you. I hope your wife and you have more harmony tomorrow

[Sabrina]

I don't get any help from my husband at all - he'll lie on the couch and watch TV no matter how many dishes there are to be done or any other household chores for that matter. Years ago this would have bothered me no end (it did with my first husband) but I don't mind now. I've learnt to accept him as he is and that no matter how much I WISH for to just get up and help me ..... it isn't going to happen. He doesn't offer either. Having said that - if I had to ask - I guess he would help! (We don't always want to ask though, do we?)

I don't think you're a villian at all. I here empathy and understanding for your wife along with your frustrations. Even though you are clearly unhappy with some of your wife's actions - you have spoken about her respectfully here and I think that says a lot about you! You deserve a lot of respect and I feel sad for you that perhaps, you aren't getting it.

I hope the atmosphere improves really quickly for you.

Sending you strength!

[Cyran0]

As always, thanks to everyone for your support.

Last night she arrived home at about 11pm after a marathon session of xmas shopping. I'm not complaining on that front, it was nice to have the evening to myself and she really only has this week to get her share of the shopping done (I just do mine online).

But when she got home the conflict resolved the way it always does, she pretended like it never happened. And I reacted to that the way I always do, I masked my emotions and pretended the same thing. I was back in my bed reflecting on the previous day. Is this healthy? I still feel hurt and frustrated but is it better to just let the scab form and try to forget about it? Nothing is resolved this way but at least we're playing nice.

It's kind of rhetorical in so much as we've done this dance for years and we will play happy until the pressure cooker explodes once again. Until then, I will feel disconnected from her and wonder what this says about me, her, and us.

So it goes.

Cyran0

[Perna]

When my husband and I are on the outs with one another for some reason or another I usually intuit that he's not happy either and I love making him happy? That's my job :-) So, I try to thaw the pretend somewhat if I'm feeling better and have the time by doing nice things he'll see and appreciate; make a favorite meal, "pickup" some task alongside of the ones we were fighting about and even bring up some of what we were fighting about in a directly indirect :-) way.

I hope your day at work, your drive, etc. goes a bit better and when you get home you're not so tired or stressed. Maybe you can start a conversation about the presents she bought last night, if she got everything she needed to and, if not, see if she has ideas for a babysitter and you'll "drive" her to the store and the two of you enjoy a late evening snack somewhere afterwards or something, a little mini date of some kind. I love when my husband drives me places so I don't have to worry about traffic or parking, etc. And I just like having him along. It provides a space for the two of us to talk away from our normal duties.

[salukigirl]

jason is notorious for doing this. he has some crazy idea that if he speaks his mind to me im going to pack up and leave. finally after 2 years he started talking. and all the things that he kept bottled up are coming out now which im fine with because i want to know, but its like a slap in the face. because this whole time i thought whatever i was doing wasnt bad when it was... i think if you keep it inside one of 2 things will happen:

1. you will explode (or she will) and years of bad things will come pouring out and with that much crap, it will seem almost impossible to deal with and it will take much longer to heal than if you just spoke your mind.

or....

2. you will start to resent each other for things theyve done in the past that were never resolved. things will start to annoy you that have never annoyed you before. and then it will just boil over until youre totally faking your way through marriage.

those may sound like extremes but in my experience of watching marriages crumble, thats what happens. jason and i may feel like we fight constantly but typically theyre tiny fights that last maybe 10 minutes. and those tiny little fights are a lot better than one massive fight that crushes both of us. when we bottle things up we say things we dont mean when they finally come out.

it would absolutely bug the living crap out of me to know that someone has something on their mind and isnt expressing it to me.

[_Hope_]

I know this couple who always pretend nothing happened, when things don't go the way they like. They both do it and they are both happy with it. It works for them. Personally I couldn't live that way. I feel I have to express myself, and if I am stiffled I either go mad or I feel like I have lost part of myself by trying to deny how I feel.

Every couple will determine what works best through trial and error. I know this isn't a solution but I hope it helps to know you are not alone in your struggles.

Linda

[Cyran0]

I think I'll keep the calm going for a couple more days before I try to talk about anything. Make sure both of us aren't reacting to heightened emotions, that sort of thing. And when I do bring the fight up, I want to keep it pretty small. Just a quick check to make sure we're ok. I don't expect to resolve much of anything.

Perna, some sort of mini-date or shared outing might be a good idea. We don't do anything together due to time constraints and child care. But if I muster all my resources, maybe a few hours out could be arranged.

Cyran0

[Doh2007]

Still here, still listening, still wishing you and your wife the best.

((((((((((((((cyran)))))))))))))only just came across this post

What happened seems completely normal to me when both parties are tired and frought, especially where little ones are concerned....been married 19 years and the times were hard when my kids were small....it's so easy to feel unerappreciated on both sides imo, I think everyone goes through stages of doubting loving a partner...it's human nature.....you and she are exhausted....it's an exhausting job working AND bringing up a family. Wishing you peace and harmony and I do hope you can talk and resolve these issues...well, I know you will.....hugs to a dear friend

Jin xx

[Cyran0]

Thanks Jin, Doh.

Cyran0

(((Cyrano)))

I know how you feel. I have children too. It is very stressful because no one seems to get any self time. I can also understand your wifes side. She had been with the children all day which as you know is tiring in itself. It took some time but my husband and I worked out a schedule. We both get some free time to sit and relax. My time is after everyone is in bed. Also, maybe try doing activities that the whole family can do togeather that is relaxing. I hope this helps at least a little.

[Ocean13]

CY,
What a tough night you've had. It seems that neither of you is appreciating what the other person is doing in this relationship. I'm sure you don't get a lot of time just for the two of you either. A fight was just waiting to happen once the tension builds up. You need to try and make some quality time for just you and wife. Find a babysitter and go play. Take that precious time for yourselves. And then find a day to take some time for you and your children. They know Daddy has to work, but they still need you. Try to remember while you're at work dealing with the idiots of this world, your wife is dealing with the children and household. While you have human contact and conversation, she has babbling baby talk most of the time. You both need to reflect on yourselves and your beautiful family. It is a partnership but doesn't have to feel so numb. If you go to church, talk to your pastor. Maybe they can give you more advice that will make it easier. *God Bless*

[Cyran0]

Thanks all for the kind thoughts. My wife and I have had conversations about what happened and yeah, we're both just worn out. The lack of time and energy is further complicated by the lack of money, which makes spending time together even more difficult.

Though again, I should reiterate that we both work. Somehow this thread keeps defaulting to I just work and she just takes care of the family. We both do both. She was just on vacation that day.

Thanks again.

Cyran0

[coralproper]

cyran0

I understand the method you describe of solving your disputes...just act like nothing ever happened..my wife does this...& as you describe yourself still stewing away(thats me), I over analyze things...where she just seems to forgive and forget without discussion...I want to talk out every detail....seems like it should be the other way around though...makes me feel to sensitive

I learned a long time ago....we are the men and they are the women...it don't matter who is right or wrong....just let it die..and you will be better off

My wife don't work and I still come home to her being stressed by the kids sometimes and one is in school most of the day now...but when I am home with them without her even half a day,and its to cold to take them outside to play...I can see where the frustration comes from, after each one wanting something every 5 minutes, or having to settle sibling rivalry disputes......it is tough on me
I admire her tolerance to this

Do you guy's ever take family vacations together?
This is something my wife looks forward to every year,taveling out of state to get away.You mentioned she was on vacation..but she probably dont feel like it stuck all day with the kids by herself.

On many weekends even if we are not on vacation when it's warm we go to a really nice near by lake to grill out,swim,play in the sand,there is all kinds of stuff for the kids,this gives us a chance to relax together and just watch the kids play.

We really don't have much in common since we are opposite, other than physical attraction and love, so communication is not that great between us if we do have a problem..so we just try to stay busy with activitys to keep from going nuts in the house.

Now that its getting cold we'll probably go skating,movies,bowling or what ever else we can think of..take the kids to hang out with friends who have children

all the above has helped us since before we had kids we really did not have any stress problems.

I only work 4 10hr days a week mon-thur and still come home feeling the way you described sometimes ..and we are lucky to get snow once a year that sticks more than a few days...and my commute to work is less than 15 minute's...so you probably have the right to unwind..makes me ashamed to feel the same sometimes

so I feel unworthy to give you advice but ....when it comes to women its best just to go along with whatever they want or feel is best...I can't win a argument about the color of the sky with my wife, if she says its pink...then by God it's pink..end of story

Sorry this stuff with your wife has you so down and out.....

Do you ever tell her you love her?.....after reading some of your other posts mabey she thinks you don't...I think you probably do and she or you should never doubt this in my opinion

sorry if that question crosses the line

[altonwoodsdrphil]

CyranO, If I were to try to tell you the secret to a succesful marriage, beyond communication and understanding,selflessness and sacrifice, or any other incredibly important relationship aspect, (which none of us does perfectly) the one thing most responsible for what I see as "the miracle" of my marital bliss is simply this...the third person in our marriage is Christ, he's the best marriage counseler there is! (and so reasonably priced)...I've seen him do so many amazing things in my life, with my wife and I's relationship, my finances, anything that I could manage to let him manage turned out. You seem like a very intelligent man, or one who can discern the truth from lies...test what i'm saying for yourself to know the reality of him! what can it hurt? perhaps the ego that would prevent you from doing this is the same one thats at work in your marriage?

[AAAAA]

(((((Cyran0))))) once again I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I really wanted to say first you're not a villian, you're human, you were tired and frustrated! It sounds as though your wife was as well.

You know I love ya to death, but I could hear your wife's thoughts going through my head as I was reading your posts. I KNEW why she was upset and knew what she was going to say. In fact that could have been a verbatim transcript of my husband and I 10 - 12 years ago. In fact there's probably one other thing she didn't mention, she was frustrated, irritated, hurt and just plain mad as hell because you had to ask what her problem was.

The baby years are so exhausting, worth it, but it is so draining. The fights over the kids will continue, but when they're older you won't be as tired.

The flame in your marriage will rekindle, if you feed it. I'm sure you know all of these things.

I know your frustration, I really do, I've been stuck in MN in the middle of an ice storm making no headway, the stress and anxiety the whole mess. In 92 I think, it took us 10 hours to get from Duluth to Fargo.(My husband used to chew and use a soda bottle for a spittoon and in the middle of the whole mess I take a big old swig.... ew memories)

But the bit of advice that I'd really like to give you, is even though right now your days seem so long and exhausting, you're going to blink and suddenly your child isn't going to want to play with you anymore and you will never ever get this time back. I speak from my own personal regret, all the hours I wasted worrying about housework when I could have been enjoying time with my kids.

I really hope you and your wife get things straightened out. And another vitural (((((hug))))).