[Embarrassing]

My boyfriend and I have been together for 4 years now and I love him dearly. We get along great and rarely fight. We have recently started talking about getting married and having children soon.. but I still struggle to trust him and fully open up to him. I think starting a marriage without the trust would be a reckless decision on my part. I think the main thing leading my distrust is his porn habits.. Very early in our relationship I discovered he had an Instagram account full of hundreds of naked women/ porn stars/ supermodels. This immediately made me feel insecure and like I couldn’t compete with women that attractive, so I asked him to delete the account and explained how it made me feel. He deleted it only later to keep looking these women up online. I found out again and we spoke about it and he agreed to stop. I told him I would leave him if he continued to do this. Now a few years later I found out he has a second Snapchat that is FULL of “premium girls” . He has been using this account for over 2 years now behind my back. I feel so insecure and betrayed and cheated on. I don’t know if I’m overreacting or if my feelings here are totally normal ? It seems so much more personal when he following these specific girls and sneaking off to look at their naked pictures.. How do I get passed this ? How do I learn to trust him ? I have anxiety and depression issues and going through things like this in my relationship just tear me down mentally and I eventually shut down and quit talking to everyone because my mind is so preoccupied thinking about this stuff. Any advice or suggestions would be so appreciated!

I would feel the same way as you. I don't have any advice. I hope someone else can help more.

Welcome to PC.

[Have Hope]

He has gone against your expressed desires and wishes twice or three times. You communicated it bothered you. He should respect that. He is not respecting you by doing this repeatedly. Respect your own expressed needs and don't go back on your words now. You told him you would leave if it continues. My advice? LEAVE. It seems he won't stop on your behalf or out of respect for you.

[Bill3]

How do I learn to trust him?

He isn't trustworthy so maybe it will be better NOT to learn to trust him.

I told him I would leave him if he continued to do this.

It sounds like you are not leaving him. But if there are no consequences for him deceiving you, he might well feel free to continue behind your back.

[Embarrassing]

Thank you all for your feedback ! It’s nice to know I’m not crazy for how I feel. It’s so hard for me to imagine actually leaving him as he really is my best friend but I just feel like trust is so important in a relationship. He says guys watch porn and it’s normal and the only reason he used Snapchat was because he didn’t want me to see it on his phone and get upset.. This is my first relationship and I guess I don’t always know what normal exactly is since I didn’t have the best examples growing up either. Is watching porn while in a relationship normal ? Is it weird that it upsets me this much ?

[Open Eyes]

Hi Embarrassing, welcome to Psych Central.

Some men do develop an obsession with seeing women naked. And that's why Magazines like Playboy were so popular with men. Hugh Hefner certainly got very wealthy when it came to getting women to display themselves in his magazines and hang around his playboy mansion.

I doubt this man's desire to look at naked women is going to change. It's understandable that it makes you uncomfortable. Yet, men are pretty much set up to be attracted to women, unless ofcourse they are gay and even gay men can see women's bodies as attractive which is why men get into fashion design.

With some men it's like being all about cars and how they love being around all different kinds of cars. They tend to have this interest all their lives.

Did you ever sit and talk to him about why he likes it so much?

[Have Hope]

@Embarrassing, I'm going to add to my previous reply here.

To answer your question, you are definitely NOT overreacting. He has betrayed you on two occasions telling you he would stop and he did not. It seems his habit is more important to him than the relationship and respecting your wishes. Not only that, but he has been lying to you.

No wonder you feel the way you do. I don't know what "premium" Snapchat is, but it almost sounds like something you pay for?

It IS a form of cheating because he is enjoying his porn which doesn't involve YOU, but fantasies of other women.

Imagine if this goes on and on AFTER you are married, and then you discover he is still doing this behind your back? Imagine how betrayed, insecure and awful you would feel then?

I have an example for you: my husband used porn while single and while also sleeping in separate bedrooms for two years while he was celibate and not having sex with his ex wife. When we met long after they had separated, I told him I would not date anyone who uses porn. I told him "why does a man need porn and other women IF he has a special woman in his life?" He agreed with my perspective and said he would stop using it out of respect for me.

After being married for a while now, last night we had a conversation about porn again. He told me he hasn't used it since we've been together, and that I had changed his whole perspective on porn. He said it IS a from of cheating to be fantasizing about another woman other than your wife or significant other, which is what porn does to a man. They fantasize that they are performing those acts to the woman or women involved. It makes them sexually want and desire those women. And yes, those women are typically more beautiful than the average woman, which can make the female partner feel far more insecure and inadequate. It leaves you feeling like you're not satisfying your partner enough that he has to find others. And there's so many different forms of porn now: men can actually chat to live porn actresses and interact with them on live web cams. Who knows how far this goes with your boyfriend. If he has it on Snapchat and is paying for it, he may be interacting with these women and talking to them sexually.

If I were you, I would leave him. He has betrayed your trust more than once and on something that is important to you. It shows a total lack of respect and disregard for YOUR feelings. Would he also cheat behind your back? Would he continue to hide this and lie to you throughout a marriage? What else would he lie to you about and do that shows disrespect for your feelings? These are serious questions you must ask yourself BEFORE agreeing to marry him.

In my opinion, this man is not marriage material and cannot be trusted. He may even have an addiction to porn since he cannot stop. Is that what you want?

I would view this as a major red flag and a very good reason to NOT marry him. For your own sake, please don't go through with it. It would really suck to get married only to be hurt and betrayed, and then what are you left with? A divorce and bitter hurt feelings.

[divine1966]

I don’t think you have “trust” issue. I think you have “lying partner” issue. I see no reason to learn how to trust liars. What for? I see often on this board people complain about having trust issues due to have lying partners. They have wrong partner problems not problems with trust.

But I think main issue isn’t even lying. It’s more like settling for wrong partners. Now this guy clearly loves to follow these women. That’s who he is. Asking him to stop doing it causes him to lie because that’s who he is: a guy who likes to follow women. People don’t typically stop doing something because they are given ultimatums. They either don’t do it because that’s not who they are or because they want to stop.

I encourage you to not try to change this guy but rather find men who are more suitable as long term partners. I highly recommend that you don’t marry this guy and certainly don’t bring kids into the mix.

[Bill3]

He says guys watch porn and it’s normal and the only reason he used Snapchat was because he didn’t want me to see it on his phone and get upset.

In other words, he is going to use porn whether you like it or not, and he is going to hide it from you because he doesn't want you to know about it and call him out on it (what he calls "get upset").

Unless he changes, you can "trust" that he will continue indefinitely to use porn behind your back.

Is watching porn while in a relationship normal?

Here is an idea: you could ask on the women-focused support forum how other women feel about their partners using porn.

To me, though, what matters is that (a) it upsets you, and (b) he evidently doesn't care enough about your feelings to stop doing what upsets you, and (c) he is willing to lie to you about it.

Is it weird that it upsets me this much?

Not in my book. Your feelings are your feelings and as such they are valid.

[kitkat620]

you told him you would leave him if he continued, and here it is 2 years later and he hasn't stop but you are still with him. he is getting away with something you told him bothers you because you haven't followed through on your threat of leaving.

believe me, i know how hard it is to leave someone you love, but idle threats do not work obviously. tell him since he hasn't honored your wishes you are taking a break from the relationship and do it! cut off all contact for a couple of weeks or a month. give him time to think about what is more important to him, you or the porn. if he chooses the later, i think you know what you have to do.

good luck.

[Have Hope]

Also, best friends do not lie and sneak around behind the other's back. He is not your best friend. He's a liar. He said he would stop and he didn't. He hid it "to not upset you?" He's lying to you and you're believing his lies. He cannot stop and he does not respect you.

[Fuzzybear]

He does not respect you.

[unaluna]

Geez, doesnt this guy get to have any PRIVACY? What are you giving up for him? Maybe orgasms arent important to you, but does he have to stop having this part of his life, just because you dont? I dont agree with anybody here. He is responsible for his own pleasure, you are responsible for yours. Sometimes you share. You are not the boss of him. He is not the boss of you.

[Have Hope]

Una, her feelings are valid because it doesn’t make her feel comfortable. If anything she just shouldn’t date or marry someone who uses porn. He also lied.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Geez, doesnt this guy get to have any PRIVACY? What are you giving up for him? Maybe orgasms arent important to you, but does he have to stop having this part of his life, just because you dont? Who died and made you the Pope? I dont agree with anybody here. He is responsible for his own pleasure, you are responsible for yours. Sometimes you share. You are not the boss of him. He is not the boss of you.

I agree, and to answer the OP's other question, it is perfectly normal for people in relationships to watch porn. They often do it together too.

If one of you is not comfortable with watching porn then you are incompatible. It is not cheating on you to watch porn any more than giving a woman walking down the street who looks good a second glance is cheating. If he lied to you, then that's a separate issue, and it's not about the porn, it's about the lie.

I wish we'd stop making people who are into porn bad on these forums. People who are into porn are not bad and are not cheaters. This is about a lie, not about someone's sexual preferences.

It sounds like he is the wrong partner for you. Unless you can be okay with him watching porn, then you should find someone who doesn't watch porn. But my understanding is that there are very few men in the world who don't, at times, at least check it out.

[Have Hope]

I disagree, respectfully. But we can agree to disagree. To me, talking to other women sexually, which is commonly what porn leads to, is a form of cheating on a partner (live web cams are readily available and it is too tempting for someone who is already viewing porn to not try it) . And it is my belief that there is no place for porn in a committed relationship if one person is not comfortable with it and if it makes them upset and insecure. People make compromises for each other in a relationship. So I disagree with both of you.

The main point is, the OP is not comfortable with it. Her feelings are valid and she shouldn't be with him if he needs to use porn so much.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Have Hope

I disagree, respectfully. But we can agree to disagree. To me, talking to other women sexually, which is usually what porn leads to, is a form of cheating on a partner. And it is my belief that there is no place for porn in a committed relationship if one person is not comfortable with it and if it makes them upset and insecure. People make compromises for each other in a relationship. So I disagree with both of you.

Porn does not usually lead to people cheating.

Women and men BOTH watch porn. It can be part of a health sexual relationship.

[unaluna]

So you are saying that the weakness in your head -your insecurity or whatever - takes priority over the - which is it? strength or weakness? in your partner's head?

This is something that is a part of your partner's character, habits, personality, sanity, morals, mental health, physical health, emotional health, self-care - but because the lady's ego is insecure, he has to stop? He is just having an orgasm, in the privacy of his MIND, not with another human. I really think you are stretching the definition of cheating. A partner should not mean "thought police."

Plus, if the lady thinks she is stronger and he is weak, then she should tolerate it. Otherwise, she should not ask him to do something she is too weak to do herself. Thats what equality is, not bossiness.

[Embarrassing]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Geez, doesnt this guy get to have any PRIVACY? What are you giving up for him? Maybe orgasms arent important to you, but does he have to stop having this part of his life, just because you dont? Who died and made you the Pope? I dont agree with anybody here. He is responsible for his own pleasure, you are responsible for yours. Sometimes you share. You are not the boss of him. He is not the boss of you.

YES my BF does get to have privacy. And yes him having orgasms is important to me and trust me he has them, often. . I found these things by going on his phone with permission to do things and the phone opening to pictures of naked woman and/or an account I had known nothing about. I am not as upset that he just watches porn I am mainly upset because I have tried to talk about this with him and he lied saying he didn't need to watch/ would quit (like it was no big deal ). I don't freak out or over react my feeling just get hurt because we have lived together for over 3 1/2 of the 4 years we have been together and we don't lie or keep secrets from each other.. like ever. Other than this porn stuff he seems to be really honest and loyal to me. We get along great and do almost everything together. I guess my fear was that if he is looking at porn and insisting it be his little secret rather than something we could have a brief discussion about then maybe there is more things he is keeping from me or this could develop into a bigger problem in the future. Every time I bring up the topic of porn at all he changes the subject or completely shuts down. Neither of us are mean about it at all but he just completely refuses to discuss it. How do I start a conversation about this without making him uncomfortable ? We have always been very good about coming to a compromise on every obstacle we have faced in our relationship but maybe unaluna is right and he shouldn't have to give up his porn stuff .. BUT I don't think its okay at all that he lied to me about it. I absolutely hate lying and he's definitely aware of that

[Open Eyes]

Hey (((Embarrassing))), are you still with us here in your thread? Ah well, as you can see this is a controversial topic.

It seems to me the things that stand out is that he lied to you and it makes you uncomfortable that he likes porn. As you can see in your own thread, some don't think having a porn interest is bad, and some do. What matters is how YOU feel about it. Maybe discuss it more with your SO as I suggested earlier in your thread.

[Embarrassing]

I’m still here! All of my posts take awhile as I am a new member and they must be reviewed ! I do appreciate everyone for sharing their opinions with me. I knew from my online research that was is a controversial topic and lots of people feel it is totally okay while many others disagree completely. I guess I was hoping to see how others would feel in my situation and maybe get a few tips on how to talk to my bf about this topic/ how to work on building trust ( if there is a way?) like I mentioned earlier this is my first relationship so some times it’s just hard for me to tell what’s normal problems vs what’s unhealthy. Everyone in here has definitely given me a lot to consider.

[Bill3]

OP says that she feels inadequate and betrayed because of the boyfriend's deceit, because of his longstanding, duplicitous use of porn behind her back--for years. She says that

I eventually shut down and quit talking to everyone because my mind is so preoccupied thinking about this stuff

OP tried talking years ago and just ended up feeling--and being--further deceived and betrayed.

To me, now is the time for action.

In my view, action would consist of either:

--leaving the boyfriend, since what they want is inconsistent,

or, if she chooses not to leave him,

--undergoing therapy in an attempt to make boyfriend's use of porn less harmful to her.

[ArtleyWilkins]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Geez, doesnt this guy get to have any PRIVACY? What are you giving up for him? Maybe orgasms arent important to you, but does he have to stop having this part of his life, just because you dont? Who died and made you the Pope? I dont agree with anybody here. He is responsible for his own pleasure, you are responsible for yours. Sometimes you share. You are not the boss of him. He is not the boss of you.

If this is a standard that is important to the OP, then it is a factor in her relationship. I would not be in a relationship with a partner who a) spent that much time looking at porn, and b) lied about it.

Your standards are different than other people's standards. It isn't about being "the Pope" (which is insulting to anyone who has a personal preference against pornography). Not everyone in this world is into porn. Entire relationships, healthy ones, long-lasting ones, exist without porn.

It also isn't about "being the boss" of anyone. It is about basic compatability which involves shared values and mutual trust.

[divine1966]

Una I hear what you are saying.

No one should try to change anyone else.

But people also have rights to not be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t meet their expectations.

For example pot is legal in my state. I however neither smoke it nor am interested in having a partner who does. There are ton of people who do ton of things I have no interest in and don’t want my partner to partake. Hence I’d not date or marry them.

If op doesn’t want a guy who pays premium Snapchat to look at or hook up with naked women it’s her right. I don’t believe she should change him, I believe she should leave him.

Every time someone says they are upset re porn, ton of people on this forum argue rather vigorously how much they love porn and how much they enjoy their partners to do so. But who cares? How is it helpful? They can enjoy it as much as they want. They are not OP though.

ton of people drink, smoke and do drugs. I can’t care less. I don’t. And don’t want to be married to someone who does. I think it’s just common sense to have preferences. It makes no difference to me what others like in their relationships. OP knows what SHE doesn’t want. What other members of this forum enjoy with their partners is irrelevant

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Una I hear what you are saying.


No one should try to change anyone else.


But people also have rights to not be in a relationship with someone who doesn’t meet their expectations.


For example pot is legal in my state. I however neither smoke it nor am interested in having a partner who does. There are ton of people who do ton of things I have no interest in and don’t want my partner to partake. Hence I’d not date or marry them.


If op doesn’t want a guy who pays premium Snapchat to look at or hook up with naked women it’s her right. I don’t believe she should change him, I believe she should leave him.


Every time someone says they are upset re porn, ton of people on this forum argue how much they love porn and how much they enjoy their partners to do so. But who cares? How is it helpful? They can enjoy it as much as they want. They are not OP though.


ton of people drink, smoke and do drugs. I can’t care less. I don’t. And don’t want to be married to someone who does. I think it’s just common sense to have preferences. It makes no difference to me what others like in their relationships. OP knows what SHE doesn’t want. What other members of this forum enjoy with their partners is irrelevant

I agree, Divine, and my point is that it's not the porn, it's the lying, and difference of values. Making out others who have different values as bad is not helpful. OP does not seem compatible with her BF. He is not going to change, nor should he be asked to. I dont think we should enter into relationships and asking our partners to change to stay with us. If you have to ask your partner to change to suit your needs then you're incompatible, IMO.

Why the BF lied instead of just saying "no, I wont do that" I dont know. But I agree with Bill that it seems like she should end it and walk away. Regardless of reason, he does not make her feel good about herself and she doesnt trust him. That seems like a dealbreaker to me.