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I think one also must weigh the price that they pay, and continue pay, when you stay.

Either way, your husband's behavior is seriously harming them.

I think the proper weighing is how much short-term disruption if you leave--versus--how much long-term, perhaps lifelong harm if you stay.

Your husband is a good example. His mother stayed. She avoided short-term disruption but he was harmed long-term. Do you want sons to grow up and treat women the way he treats you? Do you want daughters to end up with men who treat them the way he treats you?

It CAN actually take time lady411 to sit and finally realize that you are NOT thriving, but surviving and so are your children. They can feel it, they actually can SEE a lot more than you realize and they are NOW beginning to just "survive". And in all honesty, that is what your husband did and that is what creates all these ways you are surviving. Understand, he more than likely WILL NOT CHANGE, instead it's become his charactor, who he IS as a person. Your little ones are ALREADY imprinting, these early years are extremely significant. What they see your husband treat you like is being imprinted right now. They SEE AND FEEL the stress you experience as well, and often this actually results in children developing anxiety issues. A woman often says "he is good with the children" right? That is NOT all that matters in this picture, it's really SIGNIFICANT what they see him do with YOU. Your husband is imprinted with the behaviors he witnessed his father enact with his mother. That abuse cycle is WHAT HE KNOWS and he is continuing to practice it. "We are what we know" and if you talk to any therapist they will tell you most narcissists like that are NOT interested and changing.

His two older children know his pattern, they saw it with their mother and they are seeing how he is with you too. It has become something they expect to experience in a relationship, that it's how relationships are, that it's normal.

Is that what you want your own children to think too?

Just out of curiosity, does he do any of these tactics with you? Don't have to answer me, the one who needs to know is you more than me. Try to focus more on the tactics/behaviors instead of the label ok?

5 Withholding Tactics Malignant Narcissists and Psychopaths Use To Torment You

They will pay a price if you stay. They will pay for it dearly, and you could be most regretful because it will have been your own choice that caused it.

(((lady411))), just wanted to say that I understand all of what you are reading is a "lot" to take in. And I think you KNOW something is wrong, and I think you were looking for someone to tell you how you can fix it so you can have that same committment your parents had and their parents had. It's normal to want a relationship to thrive and last. That is what someone wants when they walk down that isle and commit to a marriage. Relationships are a challenge, couples disagree and argue, yet when someone is concerned like you are when you started this thread, then it's time to sit and REALLY look at it and be honest if you are only "just" surviving in your relationship OR are you thriving.

Sometimes, if a man is sat down with someone, even man to man and talks about the cycle of abuse and how it has to stop and why, a man MAY be receptive. My concern is that you expressed he did not have a desire to see anyone. Sometimes, a man engages in a pattern because that's what was the example they had to go by and they really don't realize how they are repeating that bad behavior. Sometimes, they MAY want to put in a genuine effort to change a bad pattern. This can ONLY be fixed IF your husband is really willing to look at what he is doing and WANTS to change it. Sometimes, the man simply is not interested AT ALL.

Also 99% of abusers will NOT admit they are in fact abusive and are causing problems in the relationship. Most will 100% and adamantly DENY the abuse, they turn it around on the victim to make it so the victim is responsible or to blame for the abuse.... most explode in anger and rage at the mere suggestion of abuse, and the victim is to pay the price for even suggesting it. Most abusers will never seek help or therapy. That's the reality. And most, if they DO go to therapy, turn it all around on their victims, confusing the therapist. That's exactly what my sister's abusive husband did to her in therapy. Therapy was a waste of time, and she divorced him. Also as a result of the abuse she suffered living under the same roof as him, she became anorexic.

Health suffers, everyone's health suffers.

Please just leave this man. I do not understand the reasoning for holding on or for trying to change him.

Ok this statement is false.
The two older children are from separate relationship. One from his first marriage and the other one is from my previous relationship. In my experience, I’ve noticed his daughter(age 11) knows his pattern more than I was aware of. But she is rarely around since she is mostly with her mother which in turn makes him extra accommodating to her when she is with us. Also, she is daddy’s girl so it makes it easier for her to get away with most things.
The one I’m more concerned about is my 10 yr old. She has witnessed more of our fights and arguments. And of course, I don’t want any of our four children to see abuse as a norm in any of their future relationships.

Moreover, I’ve been listening to a lot of podcast on characteristics of narcissistic individuals. It’s been opening my eyes more and more about how I got here and where I can go from here.

You've been married for six years, correct? Your 10 year old has been witnessing this twisted and abusive dynamic since the child was 4 years old. Damage is already occurring and has been done on this child for the last six years. IF you don't get out now, more damage will be done and they could be negatively effected by your decision to stay for the rest of their entire lives. Do you really want that responsibility on your shoulders? Damaging your child for the entire rest of their life?

Lady411, I'm going to come from a different perspective than others. I'm not going to tell you his behavior is abusive. You've already figured that out. I see in your posts that you are mentally moving toward leaving him. When I was in my abusive marriage having people harang me to leave just made me feel worse. I was mentally and emotionally not ready to leave. I already felt like a failure. The more people pushed me the more worthless and weak I felt.

Someone said something to me a few days ago that I believe applies here. Some people change like popcorn, some like molasses. Point being that we all change at our own pace. Do what works for you, okay? Please keep yourself and your kids safe and do what you are able as you are able.

I do understand your point and I personally don’t mean to harangue. Where physical abuse, hitting and children are involved though most people will urge the abuse victim to leave.

Oh, sorry, I was under the impression the two older children were his, thanks for clearing that up. So he only has one child that is from another relationship.

Yes, the 10 year old will notice a lot more so it's understandable you are concerned.

Only you really know what your children are seeing take place. It's good that you are taking some time to read and be more informed.

I agree with Lizardlady, and my concern has been that you may get overwhelmed by the strong messages here and run instead of sitting and listening and coming to your own conclusion.

Sometimes a person actually "loves" their husband even though he can behave abusively. It can take time to sit and really sort it all out. I think that is where you are at this point, you are sitting and thinking this all through. It's not always something that is a "quick hurry up" decision. None of us here can push you either, this is something YOU have to decide.

Yes, no one here can push the OP this is true, yet members here who know what they're talking about when it comes to abuse should speak up and give her the facts of the matter.

And the fact of the matter is , my sister stayed FAR too long in her abusive marriage, she became anorexic and manic as a result, her mental health deteriorated as did her health, and her 3 kids all suffered the consequences and have to be in therapy. One of them treats little girls exactly as his father treated his mother - with cruelty. He is belittling and mean to young girls and he is only 13 years old. This is all because she stayed for years hoping it/he would change. And of course he did not change.

And what happens to young kids who witness abuse in addition to the mother who takes it, who stays and who seems to allow it to happen because she stays? They become very angry, bitter children full of rage and hatred, they act out, and they mirror and mimic their parents' behavior.

Know what else happens? They grow up to be misogynists, or men who hate women. They resent and become angry with the mother for allowing the abuse. All too often, young boys who witness their fathers abusing their mothers become abusive misogynists themselves, mirroring their father. These are the facts.

I may come on strong on here, .but I have strong convictions about this topic, and my aim is to protect her children from further harm as well as herself from further harm.

I’m just want to give you a gentle

That is true.

I agree. Walking away is the best thing to do.

I lost a co-worker to domestic violence and she was said we love each other. Someone who loves you don't spy on you or hit you or control you in anyway.

That is great advice. I would add to to a domestic violence shelter.

If he hits you once and hit you again for the second time why not hit you the tenth time? Go to a domestic violence shelter.

My thoughts exactly. How can he tell me he loves me when he doesn’t trust me, is verbally, physically, and emotionally abusive with me?
This also goes both ways. How can I say I love him when I respond with so much anger, hate, and frustration?

I even feel sorry for his child from his other "failed" marriage. She is daddy's little girl? Wow, that means she is at greater risk of marrying a man that behaves just like him.

It reminds me of how when horses are in a barn that's on fire and despite the efforts to get them out of that burning barn they often end up running back into that barn to their stalls because that's what they learned to feel safe doing.

Interesting analogy. I never knew that about horses and their response to their burning barn.

I’ve expressed to him this reality in the past. Everything about how a man should treat a woman, a daughter learns it from how they see their father treat their mother, even if it’s their stepmother. He denied it and said “my daughter won’t put up with that sh** and walk away”. Does that mean he doesn’t expects me to walk away? What level of respect does he have for me if he expects me to put up with that sh** and stay?

(((lady411))) he doesn't want to be called out.

Actually, I just came across a very good article that may help you think about this challenge in a different light or even maybe learn some ways of at least communicating on "his" level as I don't think he is going to change to be honest. Anyway, it's a good article and worth the read.

Not Every Selfish Person You Know Is a Narcissist—Here Are the Actual Traits