Facing codependent tendencies

If you recognize that you have some strong codependent tendencies, how do you start to transition out of them?

This isn't an addiction situation. It is a health situation, but I have become isolated, and taken on a lot of responsibilities that I shouldn't have, and I've let my wife's happiness, and opinion of me, be how I measure my value as a person.

I'm actively letting go of that part.

Thanks,

R.D. Mercer

I think one solution to this is to make yourself fully responsible for your own happiness, which means not relying on someone else for it. This means doing a lot of self care activities, ie, doing things you enjoy, which bring out your passions, and pursuing your own interests in life. This will help to strengthen your independence and will lessen the attachment to happiness and personal value being based on your wife's opinions and feelings towards you. Once we take full responsibility of our lives and the desired outcomes, the less dependent on others we become.

You let go of the outcome and pursue meeting your needs regardless of how and what your partners feel about it.

What they feel: anger of frustration or anything else isn’t your problem. It’s on them, not you. You are in charge of your own life (and of course in charge of minor kids to a degree) but other adults are in charge of their own life.

If the person gets mad because you didn’t do XYZ, it’s their problem. Not yours.

I also recommend to do less one sided serving and accommodating. If they are fully paralyzed from the neck down, obviously you have to do more for them, but if they aren’t, they can take care of stuff too. People supposed to take care of each other, give and take.

And my opinion might not be popular but adults must contribute. Either work full time or be retired with retirement/pension or be on disability due to legitimate illness (even then many can work part time), temporary unemployment payments are ok due to loss of a job while looking for another job but not for years to come. Staying home with infants or babies is ok, but not when kids go to
school. Stay at home parent involves kids at home. If kids aren’t home most of the time, it’s not stay at home parent. A friend of mine calls it “stay in bed parent”.

Nothing else suffices for me. No adults would be sitting around not contributing in one of those ways described above while I work and pay all bills. I know my opinion is unpopular so take it with a grain of salt

Reclaim your independence from what they feel or what they think you should be doing

This ^^ is a great start and I think you've started doing this already.

I also think it's helpful to have ready available "scripts" you can use when your wife is being reactive to these changes. Something assertive, simple, and non-emotional.

Don't engage with her attacks. She'll likely feel threatened by these changes and will escalate further. As much as I feel for her (in some way) it's not your issue. It's hugely important to remain calm and limit these conversations.. the less you say, the better.

Know that you're the driver of your own car. No one else is in that car with you.
If it gets strewn with garbage and stinks, you have put it in there yourself or allowed others to throw their garbage in your car. And you've allowed it to stay there and rot.

Cleaning your own car does no harm to anyone else, except those that are used to throwing their garbage in your car. Roll your windows up. Do not allow their garbage in. Their garbage is their garbage, it has nothing to do with you.

Roll your windows down to others who aren't throwing their garbage in. Let them get a whiff of what a nice clean car smells like.
Now you can become an example to others, such as your children, co-workers, family etc.

And the greatest gift of all is you will enjoy your own car.

First you need to make sure not to beat yourself up for having codependent tendencies. Some of the nicest kindest people have codependent tendencies.

Truth is often we develop this behavior when a parent has issues and everyone picks up the pieces the problem parent fails to do. This is often what happens in homes where there is alcoholism or everyone is expected to work around either one parents or both parents issues in order to maintain some kind of structure or sense of peace.

This can create feelings of failure if one fails to service the needs of the problem parent. Codependency is learning to self sacrifice to constantly meet the needs of others. It’s also allowing ones self to feel fault if the other person is not happy or content.

From what you have shared of your relationship you have some very strong codependent patterns you have been practicing for quite some time now. Setting boundaries and saying no is not going to go over very well. You have become a major crutch.

I have a construction background. I've been pursued to return to every position and employer that I've left. I've dealt with some difficult men in difficult situations. BUT, I've never been a manager. I questioned why for years, but in the last two years I can see in myself that it is because, while I do very good work, I am not good at holding people to hard expectations. I like to be nice. I'm sure my employers see that.

I've dealt with some serious attempts at intimidation at work at times. Some of these I chose to confront, and some of these I avoided.

At home, I avoid it. I really avoid it. I am way more intimidated by my wife than I am by people I encounter through my work. I know that she needs me, truly needs me, but it is her who can threaten to walk away from me.

In my previous post someone said something about holding adults accountable; provide income, or look after the home, or disability income, or at least be appreciative and nice. I've been thinking about that since.

I've been trying to think of what boundaries I would adhere to with my wife. I don't think I have many. I trust her decision making more than my own.

I know people look at me from the outside as being a real "guy" in a lot of ways. I'm pretty comfortable saying that I'm employable in a number of sectors. I'm pretty darn self sufficient at home, as a home owner and as a parent. I commented to a friend recently that I wished I was more self-sufficient at home, and he and his wife looked at each other, then told me that part of their "worst case scenario, end of times, storm of the century, apocalypse plan" was to come to our house.

I thought being a man meant being responsible. My inherent fault is that I have few boundaries, and far less with my wife than anyone else.

Today, I have to ask her to accept more responsibility around here with a couple of things, and I am dreading it. I am dreading the possible push back, the possible counter attack. It's easier and less damaging to not ask, or not point out how much more I am already doing.

R.D. Mercer

Well not to minimize your fears but what is going to happen if she pushes back? It is not going to kill you right? So she is going to going mad. Well let her be mad. She doesn’t have real power over you. Like she isn’t your boss. She can’t fire you.

I do believe that being a man means being responsible. But so is being a woman.

Where does it say that men are to be responsible while women have luxury moping and laying around for years to come or even their whole life. It’s a luxury to live like this.

If she was single she’d have to work and provide for herself and take care of her house or be on disability and even then still take care of her responsibilities at home. Somehow being married means she now has someone to do it all? It’s a luxury to live like she does.

I am a woman and I don’t get it.

Tell her that you are splitting responsibilities now. You need her to do XYZ during pandemics. And after pandemics she is either to get a job or if you two don’t think she should work apply for disability online and/or she’ll be doing all major household tasks all day (except heavy lifting of course) as you’ll be at work all day and kids all day at school

This really needs to stop. She can be mad. Unless she becomes physically abusive (then you csll 911) her being mad is not pleasant but it shouldn’t keep scaring you into submission

Regain your strength

I understand how you feel because I am.going through the same thing. Melody Beaty codependent no more, the journey from abandonment to healing Susan Anderson are great books to.read for codependent. There a mediation call heal codependency /I am affirmation while you sleep. I hope that help you out.

That is great advice! I will keep that in mind.

Are you possibly intimidated by her constant anger and by her raging at you? I know I become intimidated when my husband directs his anger towards me and attacks me, even when I say things calmly or ask something of him that is very reasonable for me to ask of him. He explodes, making it very difficult for me to want to approach him.

I agree with her being held more accountable in the household, and with the above statement I quoted -- it should be expected that she treats you with kindness and appreciation, instead of with anger and rage.

You're dreading it probably because she reacts very poorly to something that is very reasonable and rational.

You have to ask yourself: would a reasonable person react this way? Is it reasonable what I am asking of her, is she responding with loving kindness to something that IS reasonable, and is she responding as a reasonable person would and as one would expect?

It sounds like you are a very dutiful man where you listen and take orders well. Perhaps without realizing it you felt the most comfortable in that role as a child where as long as you did what you were told you felt safe.

What concerns me is how you have accepted emotional neglect. That you give up your own needs to satisfy someone elses needs.

This is a good link that talks about the trauma triangle and how certain individuals use it unknowingly.

The 'Trauma Triangle' Explains 3 Classic Roles Trauma Survivors Fall Into

You tend to be stuck in the rescuer mode while your wife tends to get stuck in the victim persecuter roles. You are trauma bonded with your wife too and you don't even realize it.

Also, what may have developed in you is a desire to figure out how to help others be "happy" because it may be that due to the alcoholism you experienced in your home growing up people were unhappy and you wanted to figure out how to provide some happiness where there was dysfunction that prevented a more stable "structure" in the home. You have been trying your hardest to provide some kind of stable structure in your home now and your wife who is clearly mentally ill has been allowed to be the one in control.

Your effort to slowly set boundaries is going to create waves and conflict. And my guess is that makes you uncomfortable because you feel you are doing something wrong or failing if you don't go along with whatever it takes as long as there is some kind of structure to it.

This ^^ stood out to me the most. I find it really contradicts everything you've said about yourself and how I understand you to be, yet you feel this, anyway.

I think Open Eyes made a good parallel between your alcoholic father and your wife. I see a lot of truth in this.

It also stands out to me personally because my partner says this exact thing about me. In our situation, though, his thinking is correct because of all he puts out there (I won't get into it). In your situation, I see you as the strength.. so my advice would be to separate your views you have of your wife from that you have of your dad. You are no longer a helpless victim like you were as a child.

Set those boundaries. Maybe use the pandemic as an excuse to fuel some changes, and don't engage in her reactions. If she gets defensive , tell her you'd like to continue the conversation at a later time.. that it's a problem that warrants a discussion.

You can do this! You're taking steps already. I get you are concerned for her health. At the same time, we can't help those who refuse to help themselves "somehow".

It saddens me to read on several threads by different people how many people are afraid of their spouses or afraid of their wrath or are uncomfortable and anxious to address anything with their own spouses.

It strikes me as a huge red flag that people feel this way with their own spouse, in what supposed to be equal partnership.

I could see being fearful or anxious with one’s boss if he might fire you or children fearful of angry parent.

What kind of dynamic do these people create in their homes that their own spouses are fearful and anxious in their own home? Something in this fearful or uncomfortable situations with life partner strikes me as very unhealthy dynamic. Something to tackle right away. This must be anxiety producing.

And I understand that this kind of subjugation doesn’t happen in one day. It must be a slow and perhaps deliberate process of manipulating ones spouse into become so anxious and fearful to open their mouth. But at what point enough is enough. People should be able to speak up and express themselves and have no fear or anxiety in their own home.

My heart goes to people who live in this state of anxiety of upsetting their spouse. Life is hard as it is and your home supposed to be totally safe place

Persistent anger and/or rage being directed from one spouse to another, is the cause of that fear and trepidation. And I agree with you. It's NOT healthy, it IS anxiety producing, it IS intimidating and it causes fear. It's awful because I experience it too.

Everything has a process and everyone has their own learning curve.

Many times it's due to lack of awareness, lack of finances, and/or a fear of losing one's child(ren) that prevents them from leaving.. not to mention, a low self-esteem, a fear of the unknowns, and anxiety/depression that can be debilitating.

I wasn’t talking necessarily about leaving ones’s partner. Am not telling anyone to leave at all.

I was talking about people being afraid to talk to their spouse, afraid to have a conversation and tell them what’s bothersome. I think it’s very alarming.

Marriage is an equal partnership. If one spouse is afraid of another then it’s not equal team anymore. One spouse has position of power, which isn’t healthy.

Not saying people must have perfect marriage and never fight. It’s unrealistic. People fight. I am concerned about not having equal distribution of power, people being afraid to tell their own spouse what bothers them.

I think it’s perfectly ok to have an argument. It’s not ok if a spouse is afraid to speak their mind.

Again I never said anything about leaving. I was talking about one spouse being afraid of the other, afraid to speak up or express their concerns. People shouldn’t be afraid of their spouses. One spouse shouldn’t hold that much power over another

You had mentioned you grew up with alcoholism in at least one parent. You developed codependent habits with that challenge. Here is a good article to read that explains behavior patterns you may be dealing/dealt with and unknowingly formed reactions to that you are not aware of.

11 Ways Narcissists and Alcoholics are Similar

I think I used to be more decisive.

When you seek validation from someone for years, it becomes easy to let them make a lot of the decisions and you just fulfill them.

I've reached a point that I second guess myself a lot at home.

I'm not someone that manages people at work, but I do interact with people a lot in a mentoring role. At work, I'm very decisive, and I know I make good decisions, both for my workplace and for the people around me.

I'm a good parent. I question my parenting some, but I'm a good parent.

Decisions that directly involve my wife, I will usually defer to her, and just enact what she wants. Sometimes it's because I worry I'm not seeing things from her side enough, and sometimes it's not worth the argument.

RDM

That creates a great power imbalance in the relationship -- it makes your wife in charge of all decisions, and you in a submissive role.

To correct that, you can start taking charge far more than you have been. You can and should involve her in the decision making process as your EQUAL partner, but you can have an opinion of your own that matters and which weighs into the decision. You can then come to a mutual decision together, with both opinions being heard and considered, which is what a more equally balanced relationship involves. If you can do this at work, you can certainly do this at home. You have to be clear going into a conversation about your own preference and opinion on the matter. And then voice it.

It may be eye opening to you to see how she responds when you start having more of an opinion and when you want your opinion and preferences to weigh into any decision.

I found this when I was looking stuff up
How to Stop Being Codependent: Moving Past Codependency | Zencare

I came across this link to a youtube talk in another forum and I think it's something that would really benefit you if you watch it. My concern about you from what you have shared is that you try to be a good father, provide for your family and you pretty much do all the house hold chores and cook the meals and parent. You have had to see if you have value from others at work etc., even here, and you wonder if you will face some kind of anger about that. You have been encouraged to give up your own needs in order to feel worthy and this is very unhealthy for you and you have every right to have your needs met. You deserve to be able to say "no".