Marriage may need to end: enormous grief and sadness

Yeah but that’s your life and not theirs. I really don’t understand the concept of what’s better or worse. Plus some marriages are just no good and no abuse is present at all (not saying yours is). They possibly have much worse situations than yours and they know it themselves but they find if difficult to leave yet they still want to help others to leave theirs.

If you are happy and satisfied in your marriage then who cares what other people think. And if you are unhappy and dissatisfied then who cares that other people got it even worse? Just do what’s right for you

Talking about chairs we have the most comfortable recliners from Art Van and now sadly Art Van is going out of business

Ps Didn’t you say you’ll trust yourself and your guts more? Don’t give strangers and how they live their lives more power than needed

True. BUT, I am still looking for support around my marital difficulties from various sources, and it's not helpful to me when all women tell me to do is to leave the situation. Every situation differs, and you're right... it comes down to whether I am happy and content or not... not what these women say about it. All I was saying is that my situation isn't half as bad as others I read about and the women who tell me to leave are the ones who experienced very severe abuse. That's all I was saying.

And there's still a chance that couples therapy MAY help in my situation. Maybe.

It's very lonely dealing with this, especially when I cannot confide in my parents. Normally, I would be talking to my parents all the time about this. I did live with them for four years not too long ago, and they were intimately involved in my life then. They were intimately involved in most of my life, up until now. But I am not confiding in them about this whatsoever and for very good reasons. They can be controlling and will want to tell me what to do and will overly involve themselves to the point where it will confuse me and make things worse. So I feel very alone with my struggles on a day-to-day basis, so I reach out on these other forums for support. But it's not the support I need.

I am trying to think for myself, and yes, follow what my own gut says about all this, yet I need support too.

My best girlfriend, another girlfriend, my sister, and my therapist are the best support I have right now IRL -- I don't want to wear anyone out though, so I try not to call them too much about it. I talk the most about it to my closest girlfriend, maybe once per week. And online, the best support I have is here, on PC.

I honestly never found anyone’s support or advice useful in regards to deciding to leave a relationship/marriage. I always did it and shared after because it was no use otherwise. I’d seek support after if I needed it.

I’d not confide in family, it’s actually not recommended to share with family when having marital issues especially if you feel your partner doesn’t treat you right. Your marriage might survive and your spouse might improve but your family will never look at him the same and it will contribute to disconnect in a family. Especially with parents. If I knew someone yelled at my daughter I’d have hard time sitting across holiday table from him for years to come. They are better off not knowing at the moment (unless situation is extreme and they need to interfere)

I agree that leaving a relationship/marriage is a lonely thing because you are on your own with your decisions.

Well, you and I are probably different in that regard. I need a lot of support around my relationship difficulties from different people. Though I am still going to decide this for myself in the end. But I share my problems and need to talk them through.. I've always been this way. It helps me to make the decisions I need to make. And often when talking it through with various people and hearing their feedback, thoughts or reflections, it helps to bring me clarity. Even just hearing myself say the words out loud can bring clarity. I am so glad I like my therapist right now. He has been a big help.

So, yeah, that's just how I am built.

It is lonely... it's a very tough position to be in.

There was a point in my 22 year relationship where I realized that MOST HOLIDAYS...Like ANNIVERSARIES....were not celebrated, usually ended up in fights, I really had to look at the situation and see if this is where I wanted to stay...If you are stressed on your anniversary and not feeling the loving feelings you should be....you really have to realize LIFE IS SHORT...that is not just a saying...it is the truth ...I lost my sister and my Father within the past 1.5 years...it really hammers home that you can have feelings for this man...but is it worth being miserable for the rest of your life?

You could seperate and possibly things would straighten out and get better and you could return to the relationship but it seems the relationship isn't working for either one of you....It would be strong of you to do the seperation for BOTH of you.....No abuse is warranted so therefore it should no longer be tolerated. Its HARD to let go of even something that is bad...

But after I asked my X to leave....I felt "alive" again...worthy....had a lot of fun....met other people....learned that my "marriage" was very toxic...more toxic than I already knew.
I do think if you are feeling all these negative feelings on a special day....than you really have to honor those feelings, love yourself and take steps to step away for a period of time to decide if you should divorce.

He stated he doesn't want counseling and you can't force someone to love you or treat you right...he has to LEARN about what he lost and he has to decide if he wants to change...counseling won't change either of you.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I know this thread is long, so it's probably too hard to read through it's entirety. But I think you only read a small portion and are missing the whole picture.

We did celebrate our anniversary, but not as expected. We're in a pandemic and it made things a LOT harder. We were supposed to do a getaway in Vermont which had to be rescheduled for October. We DID celebrate it, but it was a bit of a letdown given the circumstances. We did not fight on our anniversary either. We decided that the real celebration will be in October when we can get out of town.

And he has agreed to couples counseling. Initially, he refused. But then I got him to agree to it, IF his temper flares up again.

And I am not miserable either. What I am most struggling with right now is being in this position of indecision. But we've had a good week together, all has been smooth and all has been loving and kindness between us.

He does love me, so I am not forcing him to try and love me. I am enforcing strict boundaries around certain and specific behaviors I don't like, and he has shown improvements.

So you're a bit off on several points, but I appreciate the gesture.

I get it! My attempts to seek advice re relationships were always ridiculously unsuccessful (If not stupid) so I’ve learned to keep it to myself. I do ask for advice on specific matters in life of course, just not personal.

Yeah, that I fully understand!!!

I am scared. I have been having dreams about divorce.

I figured out my personal financial situation. If I am extremely diligent and on my current salary, it will take me 8 months to save the money I need in order to move out -- which brings me to about Feb. IF I happen to land a Director level role between now and then, it will be far easier to save the money I need more quickly.

I've read up on the legal division of assets in my state:

"In general, the shorter the marriage, the more likely a court will be to try to put the parties back into roughly the same situations they were in prior to the marriage; in a very long marriage, the court is more likely to order a roughly equal distribution of property and to ensure that both spouses can maintain a standard of living similar to what they had during the marriage."

".. the judge can divide both marital and separate property. However, a court will usually, but not always, award separate property to the original owner in a divorce--separate property is property one spouse owns before marriage, or acquires by gift or inheritance during the marriage."

"It can sometimes be hard to determine what property is marital and what is separate. Marital and separate property can become mixed together—sometimes called “commingling.” A premarital bank account belonging to one spouse can become marital property if the other spouse makes deposits to it; a house owned by one spouse alone can become marital property if both spouses pay the mortgage or other expenses, or contribute to significant improvements. If spouses aren’t able to decide what belongs to whom, the judge will have to decide whether to treat any of the commingled property as premarital property belonging only to one spouse."

I really need and have to be able to keep ALL of my own belongings (furniture) and other apartment items that I brought TO the apartment separately AND that I purchased after we moved in together like tables, rugs, pictures and lamps, etc. That is all very important to me.
I need to consult with a lawyer and SOON. I am getting really anxious.

It is SO hard to be in this position. I want to be able to talk to my parents, but I have not completely made up my mind. I am dragging my heels. I want to let them into this. I think I want their help now, but I am scared.

I am just all around scared of what's to come. I am waffling. I am having a really hard time.

And.. I just spoke with/caught up with my parents. It is KILLING me to not inform them of what is going on with me right now. I am very close with my mother, especially, and it hurts to not tell her that I am contemplating divorce. I really don't want them judging him though, and I don't want them to influence my decision making process or make it harder. I did leak out to mom that he's a spoiled brat.

Wouldn’t he just let you take your stuff. Why would he take stuff you brought with you. Would you need a lawyer for stuff like that?

It is hard to keep secrets from moms. My daughter doesn’t want me upset sometimes so she’d not tell some stuff but then eventually she’d still tell me and I’d be more upset because I’d rather know right away! That’s what moms are for!

I don’t know what he would do. He could easily try to “split” furniture I had purchased.

Yeah I feel guilty and awful for not telling mom. I just don’t know what to do. I’ll talk with my therapist about it next week.

He fought with me over $130 he owed me, and all I did was ask him for it ... again, and for the third time. I had to cover an expense, and I had to ask him three times for it. He wouldn't just pay me for it right away because I had asked for it. He dragged his heels, then created a fight over it when I asked.

I am done. I am decidedly divorcing him. And that's all it took. The icing on the cake.

Did he legitimately not have it or just didn’t want to pay you? Why is he fight it? Did he promise he’ll pay with next pay check or installments? If it is something you agreed to split expenses about, I don’t get why he is fighting rather than explaining

Exactly. He had/has the money and was supposed to pay me today for it, and not in installments. It was the third time I brought it up, and he started an argument over it instead of simply just saying to me "sure honey. I'll give it to you right now."

He just apologized for it, but it became a fight, an escalated fight, over nothing and over money he owed me.

How does the fight go? I am just trying to understand how he starts the fight? You asked for money and he does what? I am trying to understand where is the disconnect and how it could be mproved upon

He immediately got angry with me and raised his voice. When he raises his voice, I respond in kind then it becomes a fight. I cannot just sit back, be quiet and calm while he's trying to start an argument. I get angry because of the way he's behaving. It makes my blood boil when he raises his voice.

He claims he has a different recollection of how this happened. He claims that I got angry first, and then he responded to my anger.

I don't recall it that way. What I recall is that I simply asked him for money and he reacted in anger.

So you asked for YOUR money presumably in a calm voice, and he proceeded to get mad and raise his voice. He makes zero sense. Is he picking up fights on purpose? Whatever is that purpose...

Did he pay you back?

That's how I recollect what happened at least. I did ask him in a calm voice, and he was the one who raised his voice and started an argument over it. I did not raise my voice until after he did. I don't know what his deal is.

He did pay me back.

I think he randomly takes his anger and/or frustrations out on me. I think that's what he does. So whatever he was frustrated with in that moment in time, he took it out on me.

I am sorry being so tedious but I am trying to understand what exactly does he say in his his raised voice (I have a father who liked to pick fights out of nothing so I am trying to understand if it’s the same thing, if yes there is nothing you can do but ignore and “grey rock” or leave or wait when he gets old and mellows down). What does he say in his raised voice: “how dare you ask me? “ “Why do you ask me when I am eating?” What does he say? What words?

What I mainly recollect is his tone and raised voice. But he did kind of snap immediately, saying he had just woken up, so then I said, well you just paid your friend for something, why can't you pay me now too? Generally speaking, when a fight escalates, my PTSD gets triggered a bit and the exact details get fuzzier. Sorry, I cannot be of much help, to help you, to help me. lol. What I mainly know is that he raised his voice first and caused the argument.

His back is still in pain. For all I know, he's snapping about his frustrations with his back. He snapped earlier this morning at me too.

He buys things for me to show his love for me then snaps and yells at me. He’s totally dysfunctional. So are his parents and entire family.

I feel so guilty for having the thoughts I’m having. I keep thinking of the reasons I’d give him for divorcing. I keep thinking about the scenarios involved in how this would all turn out. I cannot stop thinking. It’s hard to relax.

Our fight yesterday reminded me of prior fights with him yelling over me as I tried to argue back. Toxic. Just toxic.

And on top of everything, he spends lots of time pseudo shopping for expensive gem jewelry for me that he cannot afford in the least.

We come from opposite sides of the coin when it comes to the fundamentals of what matters.

He also takes after his father and is a spitting image of his father. He never "individuated" as I did, so growth-wise and spiritually, I am beyond him in my development. He is behind me and has yet to actually individuate and become his own person. He wishes he were wealthy and refuses to live in the real world. I am very much in the real world, though I do wish I could be wealthy too. But I am very much my own person, and I very much became my own person in adulthood, separate from my parents. He never did. He still has yet to truly grow up. He gets offended when I tell him his father is abusive, which he is! And he's even admitted it himself by saying he's been abusive to hospital staff! But when I say it, it's a personal insult, and that's because he's always admired his father and takes after him in behavior. He feels he failed in life because he's not as wealthy as his father or brother. He still looks up to that standard and believes he should have followed suit.

We're like oil and water in many ways. And in some ways, we're compatible, but not where it really matters. Not at the true heart of what makes a marriage work long-term.