Ghosting, ignoring, not responding to messages

It would make sense if it were upsetting, Etcetera1. Kinda like being 'triggered' when other people do it to you. You don't have to cut your best friend off - could you have a frank discussion with 'I feel upset when...' (putting it on you not on them, if that makes sense)

Re your question as to what if they ignore you... I don't know if I missed it but it is difficult without knowing (and I am not asking!) the people involved or context. It is different if it is your employer vs. your hairdresser, if that makes sense.

Sorry I missed it: 'unaware' - people are in their own world or self-involved and are not able to consider that their actions (or lack thereof) can have an impact on another. It's just not on their radar due to lack of empathy or consideration for another.

I think that's not a bad summary for some of these relationships.... but I feel like they have been/were good at pretending it's more than that (I've learned to see through some of this by now). And what bothers me is that people who do seem nice can pull this off too sometimes, and I do want to understand that too and improve my communication when this issue comes up.

That makes sense, I've been doing work about this. Not in therapy anymore but I do go to a support group, social worker, read self-help etc.

That's exactly what I want to talk about with the couples counsellor too. I don't feel comfortable trying to bring up all this without a third party to mediate.

It could be this too, yes. : /

Can you say more on how you mean it's a bad sign? Yes he's been open to the couples counselling.

I did try to have that discussion, it didn't work, but I did realise that friendship was already very bad anyway. I don't talk to her anymore but it still affects me I'm sure.

Yeah it makes sense. I'm thinking, if a person ignores such a message too, that must be really passive aggressive.

Yeah, my bf can be like this sometimes.

I don’t think relationship has future if you aren’t comfortable brining up things without third party present. How do you plan on being married if you can’t talk to him freely? Being comfortable and authentic is a foundation of a healthy marriage.

He can’t tell you his pains but is comfortable with couples counseling? Something just isn’t adding up. How long you’ve been together?

Quote:

I think that's not a bad summary for some of these relationships.... but I feel like they have been/were good at pretending it's more than that (I've learned to see through some of this by now). And what bothers me is that people who do seem nice can pull this off too sometimes, and I do want to understand that too and improve my communication when this issue comes up.

The important thing to learn is those who are pretending (or lying ) to you & learn to have the self-confidence to walk away before it gets to this point.

It's not about "improving communications" with people like this, it is about recognizing this kind of person & staying away from them in the first place & not allowing yourself to get sucked into their lies & manipulation. Learning to be wise with your own life is a valuable skill to have be cause it puts you in control of your own life

Hi Etcetera, I meant that I thought it might be a bad sign for your future relationship with this man if he is ignoring you while in person conversation. If things are like this now do you feel it’s likely to change? How would you feel envisaging being in a marriage with someone who ignores you in conversation?

It’s interesting he’s open to counselling, can you arrange that?

Oh, that's different then. I would be careful going forward if a relationship is not reciprocated, mutual or emotionally fulfilling.

As with your friend who let you down, I believe the minimum expectation in personal relationships is to be emotionally met. This would help the longevity and 'health' of the relationship. If he is already showing his true colours (he will not change) that you are only of peripheral importance to his life, I see this as a major red flag.

We've been together for a few years. And yeah I do not understand it AT ALL about him ignoring my questions like that. I mean for some of it I could be like ok he was inattentive/didn't care (which I do want to mention too in the couples counselling) but some of it just doesn't make sense at all, when it's really basic things like that wire transfer issue I mentioned earlier. Passive aggressiveness is one thing I've thought of but of course he denied that :shrug

I mean, yeah as soon as I recognised someone was manipulative or lied big time to me, I'd instantly cut them off. There isn't an issue with my self-confidence as far as that. As in I don't depend on relationships, I'd rather be alone than be lied to or manipulated in a bad way. But I do have to see clearly as to what's going on before I'm able to decide that such a thing is going on. If I've been emotionally invested in someone, I get careful about judging too fast.

And yes I've been working on recognising some red flags sooner.

By improving communications I meant when it might actually be decent people, I don't want to get too upset and get inflexible in communication just because I'd met some manipulative people in the past. Unless you meant that a lot more people are not really nice or decent. Because what I meant here is, if someone's not like manipulative by default but gets into a bad mood or gets avoidant about something or whatever, I've seen that thing happen before. No one is perfect. And I've sometimes still been able to talk to such people and had them respond well in the end but it's been a big stress for me because of the bad things in the past.

Also with my bf the jury's still out, I don't know why he's doing it, and I do want to try communication a bit more with him and look at and reflect about perspectives before deciding anything about it.

I see, yeah. No it doesn't feel great imagining that. And yeah as soon as I'm clear enough on his plans, I will be able to arrange it. I will try to talk to him again sometime in the next few days about the plans.

The thing is I want to understand what's up with that too. He seems to be able to pay attention to friends or his father just fine.

I think some things don't add up about it yet for me. It would be too simple otherwise, right? It's like something still obscures some of the "true colours" for me. Maybe it would be obvious to someone who's a third party/onlooker to the relationship, but it isn't for me yet. But I really hope the the couples counselling will help there too.

EDIT: One major thing that obscures it for me is that I get unsure how much it is an issue with my communication. But that is only because the best friend accused me of not having enough empathy back then when I had to cut her off and that really affected me on a subconscious level.

The other big thing that gets in the way in seeing clearly is that my first ever boyfriend broke up with me 3 weeks into it because he couldn't forget his first girlfriend (I was his second gf ever), even though he was so intensely into me at first....and then it was just downhill from there, second romantic relationship was when I didn't heal from this yet and it made the emotional injury worse. I never had a truly emotionally fulfilling relationship with a guy after all that. But that goes beyond the topic of this thread. I've already been working on this a lot too (healing these things inside myself).

I find it interesting that you considered someone you dated for three weeks a boyfriend and looked at it as actual relationship. And you even needed healing after that ended. 3 weeks into it should be just getting to know someone a bit not actual deep involvement with someone. 3 weeks is nothing.

Do you tend to attach to people very fast and have hard time letting go? like this current guy doesn’t even live in the same country snd wouldn’t tell you his plans but you plan couples counseling and marriage. Do you get emotionally attached before you look deeper into if these are even right people for you?

I don’t think if matters “why” he ignores you. The point is that he does. Look into actions. His actions say enough without trying to understand “why”. You’ll never know why. All you can know is why you want a guy like this? It’s not how men in love with their partners and committed to their partners act. Not at all.

It was my first relationship, when very young.

YES, exactly, I needed healing and I didn't know I needed it, so the next relationship just made the emotional injury worse.

You mentioned I seem to get into relationships with dismissive people. Now you are the one who's being dismissive towards me. If you can't empathise about this, then just don't say anything please. Because I don't like this dismissiveness.

No, the emotional injury wasn't about having a hard time letting go. After that very first relationship, I was always the one who broke up the relationship and the guys would be the ones who would want to stay with me when I told them I'm done.

We lived together for years before before he got a job in another country.

It's more that I didn't realise what emotional neglect feels like.

Alright I'll try to be clearer, what I meant is that for a very long time the emotional injury prevented me from seeing what a good relationship would feel like. I don't really know from emotional experiencing as to what it truly feels like, an emotionally good relationship.

That says a lot right there. Others are a priority but his significant other, he can take for granted.

There could be many reasons as to the 'why'. I don't think the 'why' matters as much as his actions showing 'you don't matter as much to me'. Does it really matter why he does not give you what he gives to others? The fact is, he is *not* giving it to you.

How would it help you to know his 'why' (he might not even tell you or lie to you - so, how would you even get to the truth of his 'why')? Would you actions be any different if you were to know why?

Sometimes (often?) in life we just can't know the why of what is in other people's heads. Their actions are a good enough pointer to how they operate. This is reliable data i.e. their action vs. this unknowable 'why' in their heads.

Regardless of the 'whys', he is treating you poorly. Not feeling good in a relationship shows it is *not* a good relationship.

It is understandable you struggle figuring out what’s good relationship if you never had one. How was your parents’ marriage? Sometimes it stems from how we grow up.

If you are happy with this guy then it’s all good, but if not then you got your answers

I think it’s safe to say that relationship is emotionally unhealthy if you have to question why he does things.

I second others that finding out “why” is not only unimportant but also impossible. If your boyfriend even tells you why, you have no ways to know what’s the reason as he might not be truthful .

I still find it weird that after living with you for years and wanting to marry you, he leaves to a different country and it’s unclear when he’s coming back. When did you see him last time?

I didn’t mean to be dismissive, My apologies. I was trying to understand what’s with the 3 week relationship. I didn’t realize it was at a very young age. I see now. At a young age everything seems a big deal

I just realized that you already posted about this guy before. I didn’t think it was you.

Him not answering your questions is the least of the problems. This dude is rude, abusive, mean, neglectful and frankly completely disinterested in you and your company. It doesn’t matter why he is this way but this is a very bad relationship in every sense if you can even call it a relationship as it appears to be on and off and kind of non existent. Ruminating over it isn’t going to make into a good relationship. You are being abused and mistreated. It doesn’t matter why he abuses you. There’s no answer to that. Him leaving to go to a different country might be a blessing actually.

If you don’t feel you can make a decision to put a stop to it then check what happens if you just stop contacting him. You might be able to move on and find happiness. See what happens

I think what I really need is to understand "what it all is about", link together all the events and have a coherent narrative of all of it for myself, rather than a "why" about what's in his head.

Like, I can see that all these actions of his show that he is unavailable emotionally to me in some way, but then there are all these inconsistencies I've had a problem reconciling for whatever reason. By inconsistencies I mean when he shows attitudes that seem like he's in love with me. This may be a silly thing to get hung up on but....That's just how it is for me. I'd like to be able to put together a narrative that's consistent enough for me, allowing me to act in ways that are helpful and benefit me.

So you asked why I care to understand more about what's going on: I think a really big motivator here is to see all this clearly so I would be able to recognise it right away if anyone is unavailable and doesn't pay real attention to me. I don't want to judge too fast if it's not actually the case with other people. The other big motivator is just to be prepared enough for couples counselling.

I think the whole ignoring and ghosting thing is like it gives me no information about what's going on, and that's where it really has me stopped in my tracks like I don't even see this kind of - passive - action as a pointer to anything....if that makes sense. It's at least much harder to see anything about it than if it was some explicit action.

But I've decided that I'll treat this issue on a case by case basis purely based on pragmatic considerations specific to each situation, no matter who it is about - I will not allow myself to get emotionally involved with these situations. Everything you and others have said in this thread has helped with this, thanks to you all very much.

It was an average marriage, not great, not terrible.

I saw him a few weeks ago and he's asked now to meet again. Tbh I understand the job thing because it was a really good job opportunity. What I'm hung up on is more about the inconsistency in his personal attitudes towards me.

To this I will add this actually. I find I get really hung up like this - with anyone, not just with the bf - mainly if the person first did show nice attitudes and seemed attentive, and whatnot. So that inconsistency is where it gets messy for me.

No problem, glad to have been able to clarify

I would say that his ignoring me and everything about me was what always caused the worst effects for me before he turned so negative like that earlier this year. So that new negativity is on top of all that... Also I realise that he ignored me before I noticed this happening with that former best friend, but I didn't get so aware of its effects before the best friend.

Thanks for the advice. I do want to try this couples counselling first.

I’ve read that certain disorders LOATHE / are more affected by non replies to texts - particularly borderline personality disorder. Just stating what I’ve researched, although your profile indicates that’s not your diagnosis.

I hate being ignored / not replied to with work emails. Drives. Me. Mad. Particularly when I’m looking for professional responses.

My partner is useless at replying to texts. He absolutely can NOT multitask. So if I text him during the day and he’s at work I can absolutely forget getting any kind of response.

I mean..... I don't care to try and pathologise it if I feel affected by being repeatedly ignored, where I was ignored many times in the past by someone and then it turns out that person was trying to just take advantage of me.

I would suggest that if you hear about someone's feeling bad about something, don't start with pathologising and thinking of various mental disorders. It's an unhelpful approach in most cases.

With work emails it's easy....it's impersonal, why take it personally. That's how I think about that kind of thing.

About your partner, I would not attempt to chat with him in texts during working hours. If it's some important practical issue that needs to be attended to or whatever, wait until he's off work and notify him then. And if it's actually some catastrophy that needs immediate attention, there are other, more effective ways to inform him.

If you have a professional demanding job, then not receiving reply to work email is very detrimental as one cannot complete an important timely work task/someone might not get proper treatment/someone might even get hurt. I’d say it is not easy at all and actually is way more serious than not getting a text from a date or whoever else.

I’d say if you are repeatedly ignored by someone you are dating, it’s understandably upsetting. Anyone would be badly effected. It’s not clear though why would you want to date someone who repeatedly ignores you.

Why not choose partners who don’t do that? Most people don’t ignore their partners. It’s not a common behavior. I would suggest not to pursue men who ignore you.

Relationship is a choice. Choose wisely

Ok well I meant I personally find it easier because emotions don't get in the way for me there. With work stuff I do enjoy finding solutions, with intimate relationships it's just not like that for me, I plain do not enjoy having to solve problems in them.

By the way I would NOT compare what's more serious or less serious re: the personal and the impersonal areas of life. For me it's plenty serious how I was taken advantage of before in a close relationship. It was detrimental in several ways for me and I will not compare that to hypothetical work situations. Completely different things. Family and work are also completely different and neither is less important than the other.

These people (long term romantic relationship or close friendship) did not start out by advertising how they really are. The person that took advantage of me managed to do so by way of dishonest manipulation. All that is a long story though.

I understand that one has the choice to go for a relationship etc., but I do find close relationships are really complex even when the other person isn't trying to manipulate you in a self-serving way, and that complexity is natural too ofcourse. I still find dealing with work related problems easier tho. That's just me. So in theory yes I agree that you choose the relationships, in practice the implementation can take lots of effort if you take it seriously and don't want to just drift along in your relationships.

Yes I agree it’s hard to make a decision to only pursue healthy relationships. Making decisions isn’t easy at all

I don’t think it’s wise to just drift along dragging out bad abusive relationships and kind of let yourself to be mistreated and ignored going through the motions. It might be easier not to make decisions but in a long run you are missing on many happy opportunities.

I think you’d be much happier when you take your life in your own hands and stop letting men define your present and future.

I made this thread for a reason, right? Which reason is exactly that I don't just drift along.

I'm not a codependent. My life is in my own hands alright. I do not know what it's even supposed to mean "letting men define my present and future". But thank you for trying to help.

I must have missed something.

Each to their own didn’t realise I’d hit a nerve.

Hopefully you’ve found other responders more useful than me.

It's just that I don't want to hear possible diagnoses if that's not what I asked for. But it's not personal. Thanks for trying to help in any case!

You spend your time ruminating why he was always so mean to you, showed no affection and why he insulted you and so on. You are focused on what he wants and what he wants to do and what should you do to get him be nicer. You keep doing it on several threads.

There is nothing anyone need to do to get a boyfriend to be nicer. If he isn’t nice no amount of your efforts will make him into a nice person. Date nicer people!

He left to a different country for a job but then quit and wouldn’t tell you what his plans are. You don’t even know if he’s coming back. He first abused you and now totally ignores you. That’s really all you need to know. That’s your answer

Being hyper focused on getting him to respond and treat you better and why he’s doing this or that is letting him define your life.

Instead better option might be to focus on why you keep pursuing him and how can you stop going what YOU doing. That would be taking life in your hands and stop making him center of your existence. Everyone on this thread told you that this is a bad relationship but your focus is still on him even though he is an abuser.

Of course you can maintain the status quo with ruminating over this man. Anonymous strangers could just advice, they can’t make you shift your focus of him. I wonder if he spends his days agonizing what you said or what you did or what could he do ti make you nicer. Do you think he is just as preoccupied with your existence as you are with his? The answer is likely no. This isn’t a healthy balanced set up.

Sincerely no offense: I suspect you could've mixed me up with some other poster, especially based on the last sentence in this paragraph.

But if that's not the case, then I would say you - naturally - don't have any idea who I am, and that's not who I am.

I said naturally, as we are strangers on a forum. Easy to guess wrong from little data. If you have curiosity about what it really is like for me with this, feel free to ask more or anything. I will try to add a bit more on all this below anyway.

You don't have to, what I'm saying is that I'm open to saying more if you do have curiosity to hear more. If not, that's fine too, I just don't see the point in receiving generic advice that doesn't fit my specific situation. But I appreciate the intention to try and help.

OK, so I mean my issue is more like, I still need to spend a lot of time on relationship stuff, so I can see clearly about certain things. Certain past relationships were 'complexified' because of the manipulation so that makes it all a lot more work.

Like I said I need clarity before I can take action. And I'm working on that so all that's fine.

As far as his plans, that's not terribly urgent right now, no practical necessity for urgency there (it can wait a few weeks alright); emotional matters about this relationship, especially my own emotional and psychological reactions are a far more urgent matter for me. But I'm dealing with that feeling too, I'll be okay.

As far as not knowing when he's coming back. I'm not sure how much I said about this because it seems like a misunderstanding. He does want me to travel to him and spend time with him in the other country. He's actually pushing for this right now but I need to understand some of my reactions first and need to take care of some errands too.

What complicates this, is that COVID restrictions for entry were not changed in my country for a long time. They are finally removed now, I literally checked again today and they have been removed. Last time I checked they weren't yet removed, very very recent change. It was always me who travelled to him before because of that.

So that's something I'll notify him about as he's now free to come here, but tbh the emotional side is more urgent to me now. That's pretty much the most urgent to me. And ofcourse, it has to be a complex matter, lol. (Irony lol)

My focus is actually on "what's going on", not "why he's doing x". My focus is on, what "x" is even. E.g. what's abuse, what isn't abuse and exactly how. I couldn't care less about mind reading

Yeah, I mean, I need to see fully clearly for myself how or what is bad in the relationship. I get it that the general consensus is that it looks bad but I have to understand fully for myself to be able to make use of any advice in practice. I have patience for myself with that just fine, I'm okay with that.

It's the emotions that are less patient and have more urgency to them. I really need to understand some of my emotional reactions. So I spend a lot of time on observing my reactions and getting information on them. So I would say my current focus is on that next to just basic functioning in life.

As far as what's the centre of my existence, it's achievement. No man is worth as much to me as my own sense of achievement is.

And then good relationships and family are also just as important. Independence is more preferable to dependence, too. Interdependence ofcourse being ideal.

I do not have a preoccupied-anxious attachment style.

Right, I don't think he spends much time on thinking about the relationship. He's expressed interest in improving things but he isn't really working on it as it is now. But I do that for myself because I think it's to my own benefit first and foremost, to see truly clearly about my relationships, now and in future.

Finally, I want to say this. I thank you for your empathetic concern about what you perceive as agonising. I like to feel more in control than that really, so I have the above-mentioned patient analysis, I understand it's observation and analysis about difficult emotions and complex situations, but that's okay by me. The goal is to get to a better place, and to remain constructive with my direction in life.

Stop Chasing Unresponsive Friends: How to Deal with Friends that Don’t Value Communication or Being Present – Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Pizza

Hi Etcetera I was reading the above link about unresponsive friends (note this isn’t about romantic relationships but friends generally) and wondered if you’d find it helpful.

Btw I was reading the article because I too have a couple of friends who leave me to initiate contact and I’m also thinking about how I should proceed.