Grieving my marriahe

A funny story, in a bad situation....

I've worked in residential and commercial construction, mining, trucking, and forestry. My oldest son is out of high school and I don't mind saying..... Having worked with lots of strong men, he is one of the strongest men I have ever met, and he is about 4" taller than me.

His mom rushed him the other night to "set him straight" and demand more respect from him, and he began yelling.... You are in my space, you are in my space, I don't feel safe, you are in my space, I don't feel safe.

He told me later he did that purposely to flip the dynamic on my wife. he said, "She wants to yell about equality and respect, well she wouldn't accept a man treating a woman like that so... She can back up and lower her voice."

Your son now knows she is trying to bully him. The problem with what he did was that she will twist it into her being the victim.

I have experienced a person invading my personal space while drunk and angry. Then when I don’t react the way they want they go into a rage. What they are doing is having a toddler like melt down. Then they rewrite their behavior playing the victim.

What is concerning about your wife is how this group of friends are misguiding her and she is mirroring them. This is what you are seeing when she says you are doing or have done things you know you never did.

This just hurts.

I cried hard last night. I can't understand why my mistakes and wrongs are unforgivable, and to tell her she's doing things that are hurting us all is a heinous thing to say.

I don't understand how she can be ok leaving us all.

And I keep wondering what ELSE I can say or do to get through to her.

She came to the house today and I just ached to hold her and for us all to be ok.

RDM

You have been conditioned to experience guilt for having boundaries.

This is how a toxic unhealthy person gets control. You are showing codependent gilt.
You can fix your wife.

OpenEyes, what do you mean?

Guilt for having boundaries?

RDMercer

RDM, it hurts yes, but the sooner that you can accept reality, the easier it will be for you AND for your children. If you place their well being as #1, and your own as #1 as well, it should be easier to let go and accept what is happening.

Emotionally you are holding on - and you are blaming yourself still. This is not doing you any good or your children. It's very unhealthy. And to tell her point blank that she is hurting you and the children is simply factual - it's not heinous.

To blame yourself for your wife's abuse will continue to hold you back. It's alarming that you refuse to see her for who and what she is (an abuser and an alcoholic) and instead look at yourself for what you could have done better. The enabling has got to stop at some point. Please address this with your therapist.

Your wife emotionally abused you and used one thing you did wrong to repeatedly hurt you.
She breadcrumbed you into thinking things could be ok and then she would blow up and hurt you.

She abused alcohol and her behaviors from abusing alcohol has hurt both your children. You keep blaming yourself. You deserve to have boundaries and know you can’t fix her.

I am so sorry you are hurting. I got a divorce after 31 years (of abuse).......You might consider therapy (for yourself). Unfortunately there is nothing you can do, or say to make her want to change.

Things reached a point a while ago where I couldn't validate everyone.

To validate her meant the kids weren't.

I read some stuff tonight about borderline personality disorder. It's rare to show up at her age, but it is possible. The stuff that was described matched my experience very closely. I think it's been progressing for about 6 years now.

I also think the disrupted sleep and alcohol caused their own issues.

Letting go is hard. I hung on through years of health issues looking for answers to get her back, expecting things to improve as her health improved.

It’s common for individuals who abuse alcohol to experience sleep challenges, especially when they drink during the day. They get to a point where they physically need the alcohol or they begin to experience withdrawal symptoms.

You are still busying yourself with trying to figure out what’s wrong with her instead of detaching. You need a different therapist who will not indulge in rumination over the past or diagnosing a person who clearly isn’t interested in being married.

Well random diagnosing or self diagnosing serves very little purpose. Sure your wife sounds like few people with diagnosed BPD I have in my family. It’s possible

But honestly what does it matter?

She behaves poorly and refuses to seek help plus she doesn’t want to be married. You could spend your whole life in misery agonizing over who possibly has what disorder. Or you could improve yours and your children’s situation and lead a happy life.

First option requires very little work but has a sad outcome. Second option is a lot of work but the outcome is much more favorable for everyone.

Your wife isn’t your child. She’s grown woman and she could look for solutions for her own life.

Your wife with unhealthy influence has been engaging in demonizing you. She has even started lying and saying you did things you never did. She intimidates her children to a point where they do not want to live with her.

She should not be the one calling the shots. Your oldest son has taken the time to get help for this. It’s time to pay attention to the reality that is increasingly toxic for you and your sons.

You're all correct, except the comment about the therapist. I don't ruminate about my wife's disorders there, I focus on changing me. I think I've been SO careful about speaking poorly about my wife in therapy that it took a very long time for this to all come together.

I ruminate on my own time.

Yes, I see that ruminating isn't good, but cut me some slack... This had a long build up but this is all pretty overwhelming lately.

Goodnight everyone.

I think there were things going on that you were not aware of until this pandemic. You were so busy trying to make a living to support your family.

In therapy your approach was that of how could you change yourself and not talking about your wife. Yet as I read what you share it concerns me in how willing you are to take on the blame for the dysfunction taking place. The problem with this approach is it doesn’t matter how much we change when it’s the other person that has the problem.

You need to talk about your wife’s behavior in therapy. A therapist should know what you are dealing with so he/she can help you understand that you can’t change or fix your wife. Also you need to learn how you are being emotionally manipulated. Your oldest can see it.

I'm glad you have your kids to confirm that your current path forward is the right course of action. It's really a shame it has come to this, but they are confirming that you are doing the right thing.

Someone mentioned "crazy making" earlier.

I thought I was a complete cluster f until my kids got older. I have some ADD symptoms, so I've been ready to assume I misunderstood, misread what was going on, misremembered something, overreacted, or something.

When my kids first began validating me, then began pushing back at their mom for the same experiences I was having, that really effected me.

I don't feel crazy anymore. I do hurt though.

RDM

If you do happen to have ADD, you need a presence that is understanding and patient. This is not the kind of person your wife is from what you share of her.

The things you mentioned that you have done for a living are all things that individuals with ADD and ADHD gravitate towards doing. They like structure and motion and this is what allows them to learn better too. Trucking provides motion and changing scenery and that is calming and satisfying.

I believe you did have a nice time with your sons when your wife was away as you decorated the house for the holidays together. Your sons are probably a lot more like you in being productive and doing so with others.

I am married to a man that has ADHD and it’s been a big challenge for me in that my husband tends to take over “space” and not see how he can be intrusive. I think if I had two others like him in my home environment I could get overwhelmed.

I never abused alcohol myself but I have experience in dealing with a spouse who has. Alcohol use disorder or other drug addictions destroys relationships. I am wondering if your wife started using alcohol to escape stress and developed a problem that made her challenge even more complex than things already were for her.

I think your wife does need help and that this group she has gotten involved with is not providing her with the right kind of help. I think this group is operating on “a victim of abuse” mentality that gets unhealthy. The big red flag for me is how your wife has started saying you did things you did not do.

People that have learning disabilities tend to struggle with low self esteem. I say learning disabilities, yet I think caution needs to be taken with that description because all it really means is individuals that do not learn according to what is considered the way students are expected to learn. People with ADD and ADHD are not stupid, some can actually be extremely intelligent. It’s how they learn and process that’s different than what’s considered normal.

Your family needs a therapist that has knowledge about ADD and ADHD and other challenges that can lead to family dysfunction and poor communication.

I think there has been a growing trend towards determining that relationship challenges are black and white of one is the narcissist and the other is a victim. Yes, there are narcissistic individuals in society. Yet there is also a lot of misguided social interactions that are causing a lot of harm.

I feel for you so much as your situation has a frightening number of similarities to my own. She drinks a lot more the last couple years and does not sleep well. On top of that our son who is in the spectrum and in his 20s and struggles with his own stuff definitely is tough on her emotionally .

My wife's therapist has suggested that she most likely has developed BPD on top of her PTSD and depression from the traumas she endured as a child. On one hand I feel for her so much as I know enough about that time to be in awe that she is still here with us after all she has been though.
On the other hand I know I'm a fixer both in my job and my mindset especially when folks I care about have problems , I want to help, even to the point of doing myself harm emotionally. .

I know that I can't fix her problems but I am terrible at convincing myself of that fact .

I am so very sorry for what you are going through and would like to say thank you for sharing as I find your words show me that I'm not alone in this struggle and its not just me that feels like this. You show far more strength then I can muster of late but I am just at the beginning of this situation , hopefully with time I can learn to be stronger as well. In reality I keep hoping we can turn this around but perhaps that's pipe dream.

Don't give me too much credit.

I'm not strong. I'm durable. I can outlast almost anything.

Strong means adhering to a direction and being firm in your convictions. I've been SLOW to develop strength.

My wife has threatened divorce for years. Two days after she announced to the kids, in a big blowout, that she was divorcing me, she sat on the couch and put her feet on my lap and asked if we could watch something together

That history has done two things:
- make me think I over reacted or misread big situations
- made it hard to believe big things someone tells me

My kids were practically screaming at me to get them into a new home before I heard them because of the above.

A lot of posters here were doing the same.

I actually quit listening to myself, and just began acting "as if"...

As if I could move forward

As if what the kids were saying was accurate

As if people would support me

As if it wasn't all my fault.

And I'm still doing that. Emotionally I still want her.

Something that hit me was, I read about a personality disorder where people only feel value for what they can physically do for another person. They may end up in a relationship that isn't well reciprocated. That creates intense feelings of longing.

A person like that can mistake wanting love, longing for love, for beingn in love.

In my case my home I grew up in was awesome... then there was alcohol.... then it was awesome... oops, alcohol is back..... now it's awesome.

So, this is familiar to me. I'm used to insecurity snd longing.

RDM

Lol, “ I’m durable”. Like the washing machine that can get out of wack from lop sided loads, but a good strong kick and it’s good to go for the next load. Not being mean here but reading your description of being durable is a way of being that I have not heard before.

When alcoholism is present in a relationship that becomes something everyone including the alcoholic lives around.

RD, your wife knows you are durable and she also knows that her threats of divorce gets her control too. You are just part of what she has lived off of but she can’t give you what you want.

Yes, often there is some kind of childhood trauma or injury that contributed to the development of what you experience with your wife. You can’t fix it and you could not fix your alcoholic parent either.

@sadmanagain and @RDMercer it’s good that you were both able to relate. This is something that alanon groups do. It is meant to be a support group where people with spouses that are alcoholics can meet others that also struggle.

You sound loyal. Loyalty is a good trait in the right situation, but it can be misused by others.

You sound like you’re describing codependency. I’m not sure it’s a personality disorder but it’s certainly a kind of behaviour pattern. Have you read up on codependency?

I've read about codependency. Someone on here introduced me to the term.

Having a hard time being positive today. I always wanted to be married with a family. I get so much enjoyment out of being home. My most loved people are there!

I wanted someone that would just ... be... with me.

Let's watch a movie, a documentary, cook a meal, complain about work, cuddle, go on road trips, try new restaurants together, hold hands while we sleep, look out for each other, trust each other with money, work towards something together, tell each other how hot we are...

I never believed in a dad's role or a mom's role, just parented. I wiped butts, gave bottles, did sex talks, made meals... whatever. I never believed in a man's work or a woman's work, there was JUST work. Mowing, painting, welding, ironing, laundry, roofing, walking to the bus stop.

I don't like the idea of being unpartnered.

But, I'm thankful for; good kids, help with my house, help packing, the promise of a decent new home, that a friend and a couple of family stepped in and gave me money to get this behind me ASAP, leave with pay from my workplace, coworkers who took my client load for a month.

And I'm thankful for all of you.

I'm really lucky.

RDMercer