Trying to move forward

I have seen definite growth in you and your effort to create a stable environment is going to be greatly appreciated in your children. 🥰

I feel like I've grown. I feel more capable, and I feel more positive. I feel like, We are going to be OK. Maybe not wealthy, maybe not retire in 5 years, but we are OK, with a lot of potential and a lot of opportunity.

I listened to the next one of these. Again, this is my life. I can related with all 10 of these signs.

At some point I have to quit looking at this stuff. I am doing so less and less.

You have grown and you are learning why it’s best for you to distance. A weight is being lifted off of you and your children. You are starting to think about your future in a different light.

Just do your best to maintain, lots of people are struggling financially right now. You have skills and you know how to survive so I think you will be ok. 😉

I feel like I've been blessed.

There are members on this forum who have been a huge source of support, and who let me voice everything in an anonymous safe place.

In my real life.... I'm just amazed. I had a friend ask to meet me one day, and he simply handed me an envelope with several thousand dollars in it. He said, "Hire a lawyer and look after your kids. Pay that back whenever you can."

I can't explain the degree of support I feel I have found from people around me.

And people seem to be seeing things. I am bumping into work colleagues that I don't see all the time, or extended family or friends, and they say things like, "You look really good RD. I feel like giving you a hug,"

There are going to be really, really hard times in the future, but today things are good. I'm a smart guy. I'm very professional in an office setting, I'm a good teacher and mentor, and good communicator with staff, and at worst I'm still a pretty good tradesperson. I'll find opportunities.

Glad to hear the update.

As you learn about the patterns, it's like the fog clears and you realize it wasn't you- even though you were told it was a thousand times... It's like being let out of a trap.

Hope you have a nice weekend with your kids.

Very inspiring. You are growing and you are coming out of all this much better snd stronger

I got asked yesterday to apply for a senior position in our organization.

I was asked to apply by the manager of that group. He told me the job description was built to match my education and experience. It will mean a significant raise.

I'm ok. Today I'm ok.

Oh that’s wonderful!!! Congratulations!

Don’t share this with your wife, all she will think of is what she can take.
Unfortunately that is how disordered people operate, looking only for how THEY can benefit. And that group of friends will aid in her being entitled Best to keep to yourself and actual friends that genuinely care about you.

Congratulations!!

I'm happy about this but it's not certain until they make me an offer. My immediate supervisor wants me in that role, but his boss may have someone else in mind. It's a competition, and I'm hard to beat at my job. We'll see how it plays out.

I don't know any of you, but I want you to know I'm thankful. I've made several donations to food banks in the past two months, always with a feeling of just being thankful.

Money is very tight, but we're ok, and we're in a clean dry home with groceries in the fridge. We can give back a little.

I'm proud to say, I told our oldest I was doing this and that me and daughter were delivering meals. He said he had already been doing the same, either making cash donations to the foodbank or taking groceries to them. He's a good young man.

Sounds like you are at a point where you realize what a safe environment really means. You have been learning how to listen and see reality instead of chasing an illusion. A toxic person can’t value and respect in healthy ways. This was something you could never fix yet a toxic person will make you think the problem is you. A toxic person interacts in unhealthy ways to have power over.

You are not a bad person, you try hard and you have a good work ethic. The biggest problem you had was how you grew up with a dysfunctional parent. You did not get to see what a healthy relationship is. It is no wonder you had not wanted a relationship.

Your wife created the same environment she grew up in. From what you share she could be Bpd or NPD and she developed an addiction to alcohol. Your wife cannot love you or even her children in a normal healthy way. This is not your fault or your children’s fault. This also is not something you can fix, nor could you have ever fixed.

You have been grieving that. I am sorry as I know first hand how painful it can be and that it takes time to understand and learn how to accept and heal. One of the hardest things to grieve is a person that is still alive. It’s a different kind of loss, yet it’s still a loss.

Your son is a lot like you, yet he has access to more information and support then you had in your past. Your son knows you are a good man, he wants you to see that along with also seeing reality.

You may or may not get this promotion/position yet it’s still a compliment that you are being considered. One never knows as sometimes a job is filled out of work place politics and not about the best guy for the job.

I'm struggling the last 24 hours. I'm back to second guessing myself on a ton of stuff.

I listened to those YT clips again, and began to wonder if it was ME who was displaying those traits, and if it had been me all along..... Again.

I spent my lunch break looking up self test questionnaires online to see how I score in NPD, vulnerable NPD, and BPD traits.

I had five windows open at one point comparing the tests and the results to each other.

Then it occurred to me..... The hallmark trait of NPD and BPD is an unwillingness and inability to self-examine. So maybe that means it isn't me.

Also, I spoke to the kids yesterday, again and asked them what it was like when I was away for work overnight. They hated it. They said all the drama and crankiness just got re-directed to them. They said the things I did when I was home they just assumed responsibility for, like getting themselves up for school and making meals.

The fact that we haven't had ONE argument, no one has cried, and even between them there have been no issues in the three months since my wife left, must mean I am providing some stability, and I must have some stabilizing traits.

Right?

Just feeling shaky today, that's all.

Right!!



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Hugs to you. I tend to think of my journey as two steps forward and one step back. It's very common for us to question ourselves, as a matter of fact, I've been doing it the last few days....

It helps me to make a list of undeniable things to look at when things feel shaky. He's the only one who's threatened divorce, he's the only one who calls names, I've never told him to shut up, that's him.... You get the idea.

This has been a step backwards week for me. Feeling pretty miserable here. He's in good-boy mode, looking like he's doing all the right things, and the passive aggressive behaviors are at a bit of a pitch. And it's mostly plausibly deniable except that it's a pattern with him. It sucks.

But you are right, narcs rarely think they are narcs. Only people who aren't narcs are likely to worry that they are that kind of person. Just look at your kids and spend time with them. It's pretty clear you put their needs first. That alone should tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

Hang in there.

Ok....

I need some advice. Thinking ahead.

My wife definitely has some BPD and vulnerable narcissist traits.

I also know she endured a lot growing up. I got to know her family well over the years.

I know she was the outcast from her family, and that she carries a lot of pain.

I know there was nothing I could do that was enough to fill that hole, and there was nothing I could do in our home that was enough. I chased moving targets; clean the house, do homework, my car is making a noise, I need help with my degree, get the kids outside so I can have some peace, you didn't even make time for us today...

Right now, though she threatened divorce for years and wrecked her relationship with the kids, she sees herself as the victim. We're at home, doing well. She.... Got what she threatened. She's living a liberated independent life!!! Ummm.... Without her kids, in an apartment, without my income to support her, and without me to look after things when she's sick.

I feel sympathy for her.

What do I do when her "friends" (who she traded us for, and who have ditched her in the past), unload her and she crashes hard?

What do I do when she loses her job, experiences a personal loss, or ends up in hospital again?

You can’t fix her and all she will do is hand you misery. Let her go, it’s what she wants.

She would take your last dime if she could. Don’t give her your sense of right or wrong or ability to genuinely care. She doesn’t care.

My suggestion is to cross those bridges if/when you get to them. I think that at that time, should it come, you will be able to figure out what to do.

Meanwhile, stay in the present moment, and continue to love, take care of, and support your children in their lives and in their healing.

RD, if you haven't already, maybe read codependent no more? That deals rather specifically with the kind of questions you have there.

I tell dh (and he doesn't like it) I'm here for him completely, but not at the expense of myself and dd, and only after I'm able to meet my own needs.... You can help or give what you want, but not at the expense of you or your kids. It's a hard line to define, but important too.

Actually, this brings me to something about your previous post.... If you identify as codependent, you are very likely NOT a narcissist. By definition, narcs are very self focused, while codependents are other focused. Both can strive for control in unhealthy ways, but the prize often looks different. The narc is all about number one, while codependent controlling tends to look more like rescuing.

Dh has some relatives who are very dysfunctional and I thought they were horrible codependents, then I realized that no matter what they are doing, they are jockeying for the power position- even when that's being the victim. Now, they both look like narcs to me.

Living in the moment has been fantastic.

When I keep saying, "Today I'm OK", that's where it's coming from.

The thing with me is, I don't get very angry. I've been out of my mind frustrated, but not very angry.

She's an injured, damaged person. I don't want to cause more injury to her. I'm serious when I say I love her. There were traces of this always, but it got a lot worse in recent years.

In fact, it worsened both with alcohol and with her ADD medication, which a BPD person is not supposed to take.

Like I was saying.... Injured, in pain, damaged. But I can't let her draw us all down again.

Boundaries, defense but no offense. I think that's my path.

Thanks everyone.

RDM

She got exactly what she asked for and wanted - it was her decision. If she crashes, it's her life and her responsibility - not yours. Her life is not your responsibility anymore... even when you were together, her life was not your responsibility -- this is what you've got to hammer into your head each time these thoughts arise.

I support the suggestion of waiting to cross that bridge when you come to it, and sticking to focusing on each new day as it unfolds. No sense in worrying about these things now since they are not happening now. Focus on yourself, your own life, your career, and your children. Stay present for your children each day and in the moment. Didn't you say you're up for a promotion at work? How exciting!

And yes, I think reading a book on codependency would help. That's exactly what this is for you - thinking you must save your wife from her own self, while doing so harms you and the kids.... that's at the crux of codependency.

This is where your inner work lies - breaking free of a long-term codependent habit.

You CAN break free of this, but it's something that must be LEARNED in order to truly break free of the habit.

You need a metaphorical toolkit of codependency tools that you can rely on whenever these thoughts & emotions come up.

Once you have those tools, you can loosen the grip of codependent thoughts and any remaining guilt.

You mentioned something important in this post. ADD is not the same as NPD and it’s important not to confuse it with other disorders.

I have seen people decide their ADHD partner is a narcissist and go on and on about being “the victim” when ADHD and NPD are not the same.

Good to note the distinction, Open Eyes. ADD can look very narcissistic at times. I think ADD and NPD can be comorbid though. My DH also seems to fall on the ADD spectrum, and for the last ten years he's also been one of the most narcissistic people I've ever known. (I've known him for about 35 years, since we were kids) Not totally sure on this, but from my understanding, the same parts of the brain tend to be involved. In regard to my DH, I've wondered if those parts of his brain are damaged or degenerating, causing an increase in the behaviors. It's hard to say, so it goes back to good boundaries with them and taking care of yourself.

Another note about codependency though - understanding it and doing the work helps prevent you from repeating the pattern with someone else, like your kids or a future partner.

That being said, individuals with ADHD struggle with not having enough dopamine in their brain so they often turn to alcohol to help with that and end up developing AUD. This makes the symptoms worse. They may develop addiction to stimulant drugs like cocaine or speed.

An alcoholic that has ADHD can however still present with a loop of dysfunctional behaviors that occur with AUD. Keep in mind the link I posted discussing how AUD and narcissist behaviors are similar as life revolves around the AUD.