Trying to move forward

I hope your children never hear that from you. They would be hurt and feel like they are just a burden.

I don't think I quite understand your comment.

If I didn't see how she was effecting the kids, and if the kids didn't turn to me so strongly, and if my oldest didn't validate me like he did, yes... I'd be pursuing her.

Completely convinced everything was 100% my fault.

Very limerant actions by me.

But you know better now. Yes limerence is an obsession with an illusion.

You have been gaining ground in your ability to understand the reality of the relationship and this gradual acceptance is a big part of moving forward.

Well, just to let you guys know...

I spent the day validating the kids so far.

I needed their validation that i wasn't the screw up I was portrayed to be.

I spent today telling them: your mom did wrong by you, I saw you wait for her, I saw you put her first, I saw you worry about her drinking, I saw her ignore you, I saw her get angry at you, and I worried how it effected you to see her get angry at me so often.

I don't want them questioning their perceptions.

You have done something that you had needed yourself not only with your own parent but also your wife.

That is what parenting means.

When a parent chooses to drink and abuse alcohol they lose the ability to have the necessary healthy awareness of how their drinking behaviors are adversely affecting others.

You choose to be the grown up. That’s what your children asked you to be for them.

(((hugs)))

I also talk to my dd about what goes on here. Years ago I began practicing "reality acceptance" as part of dealing with anxiety (that was probably ultimately because of DH's covert ways that were, well, covert), and as a result we talk about things more openly and directly than what some people might think is appropriate. It's done with compassion, but it's time for everyone's feelings and experiences to be accounted for and acknowledged, not just the person for whom everybody else has walked on eggshells.

My dd got to a point where she's done with it all. We no longer talk about it. There's no need. We know how it is now. But for a while, I think we had serious cognitive dissonance that needed to be processed out and it was similar to what you describe. A lot of validating.

In time you will see more clearly and come to trust yourself and your perceptions. It's a process....

Hope you and your kids are doing okay and had a relaxing evening.

If you pay attention to what you have shared, once your wife was out of the home environment there was a shift.

Once the alcoholic is not present for a time others begin to feel able to focus because the mood shifts of that disorder don’t invade the environment. You and your children were hostages of her alcoholic mood swings. None of you knew what her mood was going to be. That affects the nervous system of others. That is what exists in codependency. It has an actual physical effect on a spouse and children.

When I was working with a therapist he was very experienced and was able to observe me as I talked and he could see the patterns of stress in me that develop when constantly exposed to the mood swing loops of an alcoholic.

I grew up with this not even realizing the reasons I felt stressed.

And a person with AUD constantly blames others. You never know how long their good mood will be. It depends on how much alcohol is in their system. So in effect you live their disease with them unknowingly. It’s constant drama, unhealthy and at times very toxic.

Honestly, the healthiest thing you can do for yourself is not to have interactions as from what you share you get triggered each time.

I feel healthier away from her. Not even healthier, I feel stronger.

Yes, every interaction causes a cognitive dissonance and shakes my confidence terribly.

While she consumed a lot of alcohol, I still view this as a personality disorder that was amplified by alcohol and outside influencers, not as primarily alcohol use disorder.

I tried to talk to her almost a year ago about the effect of alcohol on her brain. She said it didn't apply to her.

"If the threshold where they see brain changes in women is 400ml of wine a day for 10 years, and you're double that and not eating well, then it applies to you."

No it doesn't apply. If that was true they'd see it in lots of people.

"They do. In everyone they examine. Everyone. That's why it's identified as the threshold. They see it in 100% of women they examine."

No. That's not true. It doesn't apply.

So.... Yes, there are concerns about the degree of alcohol intake, and that it's effected her thinking.

I wonder if your wife sends you these texts to keep you unbalanced and unsure. In your situation it might be healthier to communicate via lawyer and perhaps when it’s about kids, via parenting app-there are couple of those out there.

Stop reading texts.

Stop assuming she is in pain. Maybe she is and maybe she isn’t and if she is, she caused it herself. I don’t know why you blindly believe her.

When you first started posting I recall you kept saying your wife is too sick to work or do anything around the house and is pretty much bed ridden. Turns out she can work just fine, doesn’t have a deadly disease and when she was unable to function she was chugging alcohol all day, no one would be able to work or get out of bed. You’ve been buying her BS for years. She used and abused you and continues doing so.

Get off the merry go round. You cannot cgange her or fix her or remove her self inflicted pain. File for divorce. Move on with your life

You cannot convince an addict of danger of their addiction. If that was the case no one would drink or use drugs because everyone knows it’s bad for you. That’s not how addictions work.

You didn’t cause it and you cannot cure it.

Desire to quit has to come from her. And her saying it doesn’t apply to her doesn’t mean she believes it doesn’t apply to her. Alcoholics say all kind of goofy things when confronted about their alcohol consumption.

Try to have a good day today with your children. Maybe go to church ? Out to breakfast and a drive?

She has had serious health conditions. She's been through several surgeries.

However, I am realizing others deal with similar issues with far less support.

It's hard to get off the merry go round. I'm trying.

As for today, there's a good day planned.

I am glad you have a good day planned. Oh no doubt it’s hard. Just try to focus on your kids.

I have no doubt she had health problems and surgeries, just like the rest of us.

What divine said.... . That covers the addiction/compulsion end of things very well.

My DH also has had significant health issues (which we deny as anything significant) and I also think alcohol is a factor for him- though whatever he's doing now is on the down low. Some of his other health problems are not likely alcohol related, but they may have caused a narcissistic collapse. Up until a point, he must have thought he was invincible. Anyhow, I wasted 4 years of my life trying to have similarly fruitless conversations with him about his issues, and you know what? For all his resistance, I think he loved every minute of it. Full attention and put him in the driver's seat. Hindsight and all that....

If she's getting attention and you feel manipulated, that's probably exactly what's happening. You'll get off the merry go round once it sinks in how tired you are of being on it. That's where I ended up. There was a straw that broke the camel's back and the detachment was rather natural. That said, I still occasionally feel the compulsion to help or fix him, but am better able to not give into it now. You will get there too.

Hope you all have a great day.

It’s ok to sympathize and respect someone genuinely experiencing genuine health issues.

It’s totally different when someone has AUD and engages in toxic behaviors that affect others.

It's like you're in my head about how you feel after conversing with her and how easily she affects you. I'm so sorry for both of us . I wish I knew something that would help us as we both seem to struggle with this .

I am not where you are in terms of feeling secure in your house as I'm not sure how it will work out, who would stay or go and that causes me much anxiety as I don't want to even be thinking about that as it feels like giving up.
I still want this to work out
We moved to a rural area and still living under the same roof and sleeping in the same bed (sleeping is all that happens in the bed( , we might as well be roommates ATM . So I don't have the option of time apart other then work.
I have a week off coming up in a few weeks and I was thinking about going back to where we moved from and staying with and seeing some family and old friends and to try to clear my head some but I'm afraid if I do I'll come back to divorce papers or worse. .

I appreciate the support words of encouragement and I will try to remember your words when I am down , thanks again .

It's really hard. I'm not going to lie, it's really hard.

Someone in my long list of posts said:

"You wife said she wants to divorce you. Believe her."

They weren't wrong.

At this point if your partner stays there won't be much stability to build off moving forward.

I don't want to talk you into or out of staying. If going away to visit friends for a weekend will result in divorce papers then what else will?

I've been there. I've put off seeing people, I've put off living, because it may tip the scales to divorce for years.

It's a hard way to live, isn't it?

If someone doesn't think you're good enough, how do you talk them into believing you are?

One thing my father said got me through my early weeks of separation because I wanted her back so terribly. He said, you can't beg someone to stay or come back, and put conditions on them. Let her go, be clear about your feelings and that you want to be together, and IF she comes back, you attach conditions and expectations for how she treats you.

Until she asks to reconcile you have no bargaining power.

This is my only serious relationship. I built a life with her. This hurts, but the hurt lessens.

I saw her in person on Sunday.... No effect.

I'd hug you in person if I was closer.

Private message me anytime.


RDMercer

What you both are describing has been affecting you as a response to the mood swings of individuals that have a disorder where they experience fluctuating moods and they are self medicating with alcohol and developed AUD. The AUD in and of itself has fluctuating moods depending on how much alcohol is in the person’s system.

When you live with someone that is like this it can become very disabling and you slowly become a codependent living your life around their mood swings. Codependency involves your nervous system and you start to get actual physical reactions, even in your adrenal system. And an unhealthy person like this can slowly get you to believe this unbalance is your fault and that you are the one that has the problem.

You cannot fix a person that is disordered and this includes the additional AUD. These individuals require professional help for both the AUD and the underlying disorder they are trying to self medicate.

Yes, it can be heart breaking. It’s very bad for children who are subjected to unpredictable mood swings that also affect their nervous systems. Chances of a child also developing problems is high. Children do not have the life skills or maturity to understand.

Also individuals that threaten divorce as a way to control are emotionally manipulating and that alone is a huge red flag that means it’s better to walk away.

Once you do separate from do not give in to the push pull of I need you, no go away.

Someone who truly loves and values you would never put themselves in a position to lose you.

Open Eyes, when I first came here to the forums, you were the one who really helped me understand codependency and how being in one of these unhealthy situations causes someone (like me) to slowly and systematically lose myself and to become horrifically codependent in the process. You don't even realize it is happening.

One thing that was especially tough for me to understand was that codependency doesn't necessarily mean alcohol is involved. While I feel alcohol is a factor in my situation, the bigger situation seemed to be his increasingly narcissistic behaviors (both overt and covert), him acting ever more entitled, and me trying to placate the person I loved at the expense of myself- without realizing it.

It's a hard road back.

Very true, it doesn’t only apply to substance abuse disorders. It can also be due to other disorders where an individual behaves in toxic patterns.

Being a nice person often makes you a target for individuals that will use you for their own gain.

@RDMercer how are things going?

Hi,

Things are good. I'm a little scared of the future, but things overall are good.

I'm stressed about finances, like everyone these days, but I'm also well aware I have multiple ways to build a small 2nd income stream.

And if we have to relocate out of this city, we are OK.

The kids are good. I had a very good heart to heart with our daughter yesterday. I worry about her not having a mom figure. Our daughter is very firm; things are so much better, I was the source of support all along, there are girl/women things she will need to talk to someone about at times but if I can take her to a female doctor that is fine, she has women in her life she is comfortable talking to, and this is truly what she wants, she wants to be with me and things are better no-contact.

I said, what if we have to leave this house? Is it just being home that you want? Absolutely not. She wants to be with me. So, we finished with a family meeting where I promised all of them, I am with them to the end, and they will each have my complete support. We are all going to be OK.

And you know what? Increasingly I believe that myself. I'm a smart guy, I have a ton of industry contacts, and my health is still good.

Did I tell you the oldest is going to go to college? Isn't that good? He feels stable enough to go to college!

I'm entering a bunch of mindless stuff at work and listening to podcasts and You Tube.

I just listened to this. This is what brought me to the forum because I had to share it.

Holy Moley......... This is my life. I just about fell over with some of these descriptions, ESPECIALLY the one about it always being the husbands fault that there is no closeness. There are years of that.



RDMercer

Good to hear that you are listening to your children and validating them. They really need a presence they feel loved them and wants them to feel safe while they develop their own identity.

Sorting through the disorders in an effort to understand another person can get confusing. I went through this when dealing with my older sister the last 10 years of my parent’s lives. Each therapist I worked with mentioned two disorders saying I was dealing with borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder. There are traits that overlap so it isn’t easy. Both exaggerate and lie and have insecure egos. Then add to that the alcohol abuse and often what accompanies that is an addiction to drama and a need to be the center of attention.

There is no room for anyone else to have their own identity. Relationships tend to fall apart both at work and at home or with a partner that is disordered like this. And it’s always someone else’s fault and poor me. It can be a real life ongoing soap opera that wears on everyone and everyone walks on eggshells.

Both these disorders are prone to developing addictions and alcohol use disorder. The best thing to do is distance so you can begin healing and work on establishing your own identity.
It takes time for someone to finally see just how toxic things are and finally realize there is nothing they can do to change the other person.

This type of disordered individual always needs to stand out the most. So partners and children tend to always struggle to feel safe and free to be themselves.