Trying to move forward

It’s best to take the time and search YouTube as there are many explanations about ADHD and how while it may seem narcissistic, it’s not. It’s also not unusual for someone to think it’s Bipolar when what they are experiencing is the highs and low states of ADHD.

The trend has been to use the label narcissist way too much when instead you are dealing with something very different.

My counselor, and two of the kids counselors have said she definitely displays traits of BPD.

Listening to stuff online, vulnerable NPD very, very much aligns with what I've experienced with her.

However, her symptoms got much, much worse in the last three years. That may be due to the accumulation of long term drinking.

But, she also began Adderall about 3 years ago too. If you look up BPD and Adderall they are a bad mix. Adderall can increase BPD symptoms.

No confusion of what they each are 😀

It’s good that you have counselors guiding you.

Once the abuse of alcohol takes place it’s extra hard to determine the root cause. Add to that, if someone is taking psych meds and abusing alcohol their behaviors can get even more unbalanced and confusing.

I'm just overrun for the last couple of days with thoughts of:

- Is it possible to get through to her?
- How can I say or do things differently?
- Did I create this in her?

Today a family member sent me a screen shot to show me she is "single" on FB, and screenshots of her concert going.

I feel like there's a hand around my heart today, squeezing.

That, and worried about money.

Please don’t let yourself go down the rabbit hole of thinking her actions are your fault. There is and never was anything you could do to get through to her.

She wants to drink and party and feed her ego.

Emotionally I am down that rabbit hole today.... And for several days.

I've written and deleted multiple emails and texts to her.

I stop because I won't compromise the kids, and because I'm waiting to talk to a counselor and not trust my feelings right now.

Sorry for coming on to vent. This is just kind of a pressure relief happening.

Don’t be sorry that you needed to vent. It’s good that you didn’t email her.

She is using the “I am the victim” to get an ego fix and she is choosing to drink and hang out. This is a tactic disordered individuals use to get attention and create drama.

I have seen this toxic behavior pattern before. This is not anything you can change.

Yes, she is the victim. She needed to be free. She asked me to be a part of her life and I didn't meet her.... Never mind I tried every new hobby she tried in the last three years, and she met me on none of the scheduled times we had.

But more so..... She ditched the kids. She was deeply hurtful to the oldest, and outright ignored the others, with no accountability.

How does that person see themselves as the victim?

Jeez.

(((hugs))) don't feel badly about venting here, that's what this forum is for.

One of my worst compulsions still, is the compulsion to try and talk to DH and make things right. I know that it's very, very rare that we have a conversation that ends with me feeling like maybe we've made headway as a pair, but I still feel this horrible drive at times to go and talk and fix even if it won't work. As dd would say, codependency be like...... Even if it does feel productive, it's usually followed up with some kind of noteable passive aggressive behavior within a few days. At least I'm recognizing that sort of pattern now.

Fortunately, it sounds like you see that it's probably better not to send the text or emails.

Honestly, I think you probably haven't done much wrong except give more of yourself away than you could afford to :-(

Sounds like she's textbook narcissist from the standpoint of making herself out to look golden, while insinuating that you were the problem. I think that's one of the hardest things about being the victim of narcissistic abuse. The concept that they've been so manipulative that even people close to you might not see what they've done. About all you can do is keep doing the best you can living up to your own code of ethics and morals. In my mind, the fact that the kids are with you says a lot about you.

It hurts like hell though, doesn't it?

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Let yourself feel the emotions and go through the grief though, if you can. You've probably repressed a lot of stuff for an long time. It will pass.

Remember, emotions are visitors, not roommates.

I have asked the same question myself. It becomes part of their identity and nothing you do can change it. Nothing you could have done to change it as she would just keep moving the goal posts. This often is accompanied by alcoholism/addiction

No matter who climbs in her sandbox, it’s always how she plays and if you don’t play her way you get scolded and kicked out.

This is how my older sister was and still is. She needs to have the control and part of her MO is having a victim mentality that is very twisted, controlling and entitled.

Therapists told me the same thing that I was dealing with a disordered person either BPD or NPD.

The best thing to do is mentally divorce yourself because this is not anything you can change.

Do not email her, all you will achieve is you will be handing her more she can twist and turn against you. And it will feed her ego.

Open Eyes, exactly right about the ever moving goal posts. Whatever gives them the perception that they are in control and you are not. Whatever is convenient in the moment.

Chasing the end of a rainbow is more productive.

Notice how any activity in dealing with her puts you in a bad place mentally and emotionally. You do much better with her out of your environment and mental space.

Keep her OUT.

This
"keep doing the best you can living up to your own code of ethics and morals. In my mind, the fact that the kids are with you says a lot about you.

It hurts like hell though, doesn't it?"

Hits me hard.

I think she had the underpinnings to be a vulnerable narcissist.

I think I hurt her in ways she can't recover from.

And while I say that, I also know we were far closer and more compatible in 2015, 16, and 17 than in later years.

I think at some point, guilting me with my past porn viewing, and any other possible slight, became her way.

I think me actually having some expectations if accountability paved the way to the end. She dodge every discussion of accountability.

The thing that keeps me from fully blaming myself is that there were completely, completely outlandish actions and ways of thinking, and no attempt at self regulation with eating, sleeping, and alcohol, but MOSTLY how she treated the kids.

If I was the most physically abusive butthole ever, she still wouldn't have had cause to treat the kids how she did.

I'm ashamed of the things I did and the times I hurt her. She was my wife, and I hurt her. She hurt our kids. Where is the shame and apology for that?

I've had some good days lately, but wow the last 2 or 3 have been a setback.

You're only human, and that's okay. It's more than okay.

I've probably made more than my share of mistakes too.

Accountability has been a big thing around this house the past few weeks- funny you should mention it. Namely that dh cannot or will not take responsibility for the things he's done. I try my best to be accountable for my mistakes. Guessing you do to.

All relationships have issues, but how things work out often depends on the willingness to communicate, own our shortcomings, and negotiate to a place where all parties are comfortable. You can only own 50% of that.

You may feel like you made a mistake with the porn (not everybody thinks that's a big deal), but do you think that she was really hurt by it? Or do you think she weaponized it? Both? What about the things she did? Can she really claim the moral high ground? Mistakes were made all around, but what was done with them says a lot. You own your mistakes, you don't have to pay for them for the rest of your life.

I remember the day, during the first covid lock down, when I said to her that she needed to be around more, that the kids needed her, and she took such offense to me saying that, that she threw the porn card at me. And I said, I was wrong for that and I hurt you, and I'll be sorry for it for the rest of my life, but it doesn't change what you're doing now.

With that, she stormed off and locked herself in the master bedroom.

I tell you, that day things began to change. Once I changed from apologizing and hiding, to saying, "Yes I did that, now let's talk about you", things changed. They began to get worse. Her hypersensitivity got way worse, her defensiveness got way worse.

No accountability.

Her identity is the victim, accountability would take the power she gets from playing the victim. The most this kind of individual will do is say they behaved bad BUT it was out of defense. It’s always deflection and never really being truthful about their part.

The truth is they are “cowards”.

Also, she wanted you to find out about her Facebook add for being single. She wants you to know she is hanging out in bars etc. she WANTS you to react. This is called BAITING.

Don’t take the bait!

I hadn't considered that was bait.

Do you seriously think that was done so someone would tell me and get a reaction?

For real.

This is a thing?

Rd, I had a similar experience with dh in 2018. Made a simple request and he became overtly verbally aggressive and abusive in a way I'd never seen him before. He went off the rails and I literally shut down and began walking on eggshells. I've since learned what it sounds like you already figured out, which is that when you back down, it doesn't calm them down, it empowers them. He just got worse and worse until it got to the point it got so bad that I stopped feeling much of anything when dealing with him. It backfired on him. My emotional investment has become so limited at this point, it naturally stripped him of much of his control.

That kind of reaction and power grab are the signs of a very disordered person.

That's definitely some grade A deflection going on there. How easy a cop out is it for her to throw that in your face every time she doesn't like what you are saying? She never has to answer for anything because she's got her trump card.

You can only do what you can do, and there are healthy limits to the things you should do. You can honestly say you are sorry and let her decide if she's okay with that or not, but you don't have to be shamed and tortured for the rest of all time. The problem is that they are like 3 year olds, and they stick to very easy bully or spoiled brat techniques. We have to just stop indulging them and get on with our lives.

One of my favorite chapters in codependent no more is titled something to the effect of "have a love affair with yourself.". Holy mackerel, I've never treated anybody as badly as I allow myself to be treated. Its hard, but I try to step back and think about how I would take care of me if I was a third party. It's usually a whole heckuva lot better than I'm taking care of myself at present. It's a good barometer for how you should be nuturing yourself.

You deserve a lot more care and nuturing than you have gotten, so give it to yourself instead. Forgive yourself, heck, hug yourself (weird, but I do it and it's better than nothing), indulge yourself a little, take care of yourself.

Oh yes, definitely.

It's ironic that you say "trump card".

For the last three years I've said, "You don't automatically win every exchange by throwing down porn as your trump card. There are real things you have to address."

Yes, I did that. It was wrong. I lied, which was also wrong. I also had kids in this relationship that I wasn't going to leave and went for 12 months + on numerous occasions with no intimacy of any kind.

When I said that to her in counselling, she said, "I let you put your arm around me and I sit against you when we watch TV. I don't let just anyone do that."


Why is my porn viewing (done in private, and I've never spoken about it or paid or hired anyone or anything), more damaging and a bigger issue than the hurt she's caused our kids for years?

Because I've said, "You're hurting our kids and damaging your relationship with them. We need you."

When people tell you what she has on social media, I suggest that you ask them not to tell you again.

Because she can use it as emotional manipulation against you to get her way?

It's a means to an end. Consider the possibility that she didn't even care about the porn except that it was leverage. Not saying that's a fact, but... consider the possibilities.

YES!

That’s why it’s important not to react.