[frackfrackfrack]

Last time in therapy we talked about how my partner doesn't initiate sex anymore and how sexually frustrated I feel. It's a nightmare that I am in another relationship just like the last one where I am not satisfied sexually. It was all tangled up with my sexual frustration because of T also. At the end of the session, I felt so angry, that my sadness means nothing to him. That he listens to me wish so much for someone to touch me, that he even said he desired me, but does not take me in his arms and hold me. As we said bye, I thought to myself - **** them all, all of the people who won't love me though I love them. I stopped caring about the rules and I went and stood very close to him, looked up at him and let myself think about kissing him and I almost did but I stopped myself. I was close enough to see the lines on his face, that I hadn't seen before. He looked at me, maybe with a little puzzled expression. Is he really so stupid?

After the session, I was so angry, so, so angry, at myself, at everything, but I didn't even know how angry, and I was holding it all, just in a calm daze. In the middle of eating dinner, the dog was bothering me, trying to bite me and not letting me sit and eat. My partner was blissfully ignoring me and not helping, watching a stupid video online. I lost it - I smashed my plate on the ground and stormed out of the room. I don't recognize myself, and I just want to die. I hate this person I seem to be.

[junkDNA]

i know it may seem like the perfect fantasy but dating/having sex with your T isn't going to solve any of this. it will most likely make it way worse

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

i know it may seem like the perfect fantasy but dating/having sex with your T isn't going to solve any of this. it will most likely make it way worse

No, I don't think it will. I am just struggling with the feelings, with the effect therapy is having on my life, and trying to understand if its better for me to continue therapy and somehow work through it, or whether it will never really feel therapeutic with him.

Originally Posted by junkDNA

i know it may seem like the perfect fantasy but dating/having sex with your T isn't going to solve any of this. it will most likely make it way worse

It worked for Billy and Pamela. Sometimes things are just meant to be.

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by CassyO

It worked for Billy and Pamela. Sometimes things are just meant to be.

im not sure who those people are

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by frackfrackfrack

No, I don't think it will. I am just struggling with the feelings, with the effect therapy is having on my life, and trying to understand if its better for me to continue therapy and somehow work through it, or whether it will never really feel therapeutic with him.

have you thought about meeting with a different therapist to ask for an objective perspective on the situation?? it might be hard to find one that doesnt automatically say you need to leave the original T though

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

have you thought about meeting with a different therapist to ask for an objective perspective on the situation?? it might be hard to find one that doesnt automatically say you need to leave the original T though

Yes, I did exactly this. It's hard to know what to think and whether he grasped my feelings after only spending an hour with him. But his thoughts seemed to be:

- Even if I am feeling that he is attracted to me during session sometimes, my T is doing nothing wrong by not speaking anymore about his feelings and seems to have his feelings under control. He said I am an attractive woman (I felt a little weird that he said this so bluntly), and it's not strange (I forgot the exact wording) for him (my T) to be attracted.

- What do I want to do with my feelings? If I want them to go away, and they can't, its an obsession and it may not be serving me to see him further. If I want to have these feelings for him, why don't I consider quitting therapy and telling him that if in 2 years he is free and wants to see me, and I am free then he may contact me.

- He suggested stopping and trying with a different therapist, possibly him if I wanted, or perhaps a woman therapist.

PS: thanks a lot fo talking to me about this. I know a lot of my posts go over the same thing ad nauseum and I feel like I go in circles. Still, it makes me feel less alone.

Originally Posted by junkDNA

im not sure who those people are

Billy Connelly- a Fabulously effed up and brilliant Scottish comedian, and his therapist / wife Pamela. They're a wonderful couple. They may be the exception that proves the rule, but it proves that there are exceptions.

I say if you're two consenting adults (and you're confident this is no obsession), you're hot for each other, and there are no other people in your lives that you're hot for- go get laid and enjoy yourselves!

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by CassyO

I say if you're two consenting adults (and you're confident this is no obsession), you're hot for each other, and there are no other people in your lives that you're hot for- go get laid and enjoy yourselves!

Hmm - he doesn't seem to want to get laid, he prefers to stick to therapy. After two sexually dead long term relationships over 8 years and 2 years of this with the therapist, I wonder sometimes, where to I find all these men who are so attracted to me and yet have such iron willpower not to take any action.

How does one become confident about whether this is an obsession or not?

Originally Posted by frackfrackfrack

Hmm - he doesn't seem to want to get laid, he prefers to stick to therapy. After two sexually dead long term relationships over 8 years and 2 years of this with the therapist, I wonder sometimes, where to I find all these men who are so attracted to me and yet have such iron willpower not to take any action.

How does one become confident about whether this is an obsession or not?

For me it's confidence in my own boundaries. If my boundaries (which are rigid as it gets) start dissolving, then I know I'm slipping away from me and more into obsession. But if my boundaries are standing firm, I can still tell right from wrong and have the confidence to stand up for what I believe in (in opposition to Mr Hot) - then I know I can go enjoy myself and not be taken advantage of.

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by CassyO

For me it's confidence in my own boundaries. If my boundaries (which are rigid as it gets) start dissolving, then I know I'm slipping away from me and more into obsession. But if my boundaries are standing firm, I can still tell right from wrong and have the confidence to stand up for what I believe in (in opposition to Mr Hot) - then I know I can go enjoy myself and not be taken advantage of.

What exactly do you mean by your boundaries. I ask because I do not have strong boundaries at all. I think it is because I don't really believe in most of conventional morality. The only thing I do try to adhere to is not to hurt someone knowingly.

[Pain94]

Can I tell you something? You don't really want this trust me!

Might trigger.. A former T of mine lost his license for being "sexually inappropriate" with me and many other clients. I didn't want it and Im sure others didn't. It took my soul, my ability to be with my husband. He very much is a big reason for my divorce. Please dont be your T in that position either. He will not act on it if hes stronger than my former T, it is very very unethical. Talk through these feelings but o not act on them.

Originally Posted by frackfrackfrack

What exactly do you mean by your boundaries. I ask because I do not have strong boundaries at all. I think it is because I don't really believe in most of conventional morality. The only thing I do try to adhere to is not to hurt someone knowingly.

Well, I have a million and one boundaries- but as an example, my T is married. So being attracted to him isn't even an option. (Partly for moral reasons, and partly because I imagine him turning up to session covered in crispy dried wife goo, and I find that thought repulsive). But if he got divorced he'd probably get a bit of a shock

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by Pain94

Can I tell you something? You don't really want this trust me!

Might trigger.. A former T of mine lost his license for being "sexually inappropriate" with me and many other clients. I didn't want it and Im sure others didn't. It took my soul, my ability to be with my husband. He very much is a big reason for my divorce. Please dont be your T in that position either. He will not act on it if hes stronger than my former T, it is very very unethical. Talk through these feelings but o not act on them.

No, no, I understand. And I don't want this now, while I am in therapy with him. Or, more exactly, I want it and I am also afraid of it. But perhaps I want some indication from him that he wants it also. Perhaps I want him to say this and to end therapy.

I am confident he will not act on it. He has been attracted to me for more than a year and has never given the slightest indication that he will.

But at the same time I wonder - can we really talk through these feelings just from one side, only talking about my feelings, never his?

Originally Posted by frackfrackfrack

But at the same time I wonder - can we really talk through these feelings just from one side, only talking about my feelings, never his?

I would find that too difficult- I would need to know his feelings in their entirety if it were me.

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by CassyO

I would find that too difficult- I would need to know his feelings in their entirety if it were me.

Yes, I am finding myself stuck in my therapy because of this. I tell him that in session, I sometimes see that he is attracted and I don't know what to do with the feelings it induces in me - it makes me want him more, want him right then. He says, why do you have to do anything, can't you just have the feelings? No! I want to know what it means that during therapy he feels attracted. But he does not feel it would be therapeutic to talk about his feelings.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by frackfrackfrack

Yes, I am finding myself stuck in my therapy because of this. I tell him that in session, I sometimes see that he is attracted and I don't know what to do with the feelings it induces in me - it makes me want him more, want him right then. He says, why do you have to do anything, can't you just have the feelings? No! I want to know what it means that during therapy he feels attracted. But he does not feel it would be therapeutic to talk about his feelings.

Totally understand these feelings come up in therapy sometimes.
He has said he feels attracted to you. Could you clarify- what else do you want him to say?

May I ask if you are dealing with or making progress with issues that brought you to therapy in the first place?

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by precaryous

Totally understand these feelings come up in therapy sometimes.
He has said he feels attracted to you. Could you clarify- what else do you want him to say?

May I ask if you are dealing with or making progress with issues that brought you to therapy in the first place?

Thank you precaryous. He has said he felt attracted a year ago. Through this year, I think I keep seeing signs of it, but he does not want to talk about it anymore. I want him to acknowledge whether or not my sense that he still feels attracted during therapy is true. Sometimes I wonder if I am imagining it because he has become so cagey about talking about his feelings. If what I am sensing is correct, then I want him to reassure me somehow that even though he may show signs of being attracted while we are talking about totally unrelated matters, that therapy can still happen. Couldn't he simply say: "I am feeling attracted to you right now, I wonder why this is coming up?" and then we discuss further. Alternatively, he could say his attraction is getting in the way of therapy and we should end (he doesn't seem to think this is the case).

I think I am trying to deal with the issues that brought me to therapy, and I have made some progress, but more and more, I feel my feelings for him and the whole situation interferes with my life outside therapy. For example, I think my outburst and smashing the plate at home was because I was angry at him (and at being stuck in a nearly sexless relationship). But since I cannot take out that anger on him, I took it out at home. My mother would do this and I hate seeing myself become the same way, just because I happen to have a partner who tolerated it once. He deserves better.

Sometimes, because of the therapist, I am afraid no man will ever measure up for me, and this causes conflicts in my relationships where I cannot separate what the real problems are and what is an artifact of my feelings about the therapist.

[precaryous]

Im sorry, that sounds difficult. I'm glad you sought a second opinion about it.

I would feel uncomfortable, frustrated and insecure in a relationship like that.
I would wonder, can he be an effective T for me if he finds me attractive? Is his attraction to me distracting him?
Might he terminate me if I continue to talk about it?

He could discuss healthy boundaries.
He could at least explore this with you- why do I find myself in relationships like this?

He could discuss this-
"After two sexually dead long term relationships over 8 years and 2 years of this with the therapist, I wonder sometimes, where to I find all these men who are so attracted to me and yet have such iron willpower not to take any action."

Frack, do you stay with this T because you are attracted to him? I wonder, why do you stay?
Is he a good therapist in other ways? Does he have supervision?

I have had a relationship similar to this with a T. We became intimate. Afterwards, he was cagey like your T when I asked him what happened to the intimacy? He said things like, "I'll let you know.." (I'll let you know if I feel I want us to be intimate again.)

I became a stressed out mess. Had I done something wrong? Was he angry with me? I finally decided that I would not let him determine how my life would go. I told him that *I* decided we would not be intimate again.

Your T has told you he doesn't want to discuss his feelings/attraction to to you any further. You get to decide if you are willing to put up with that.

Hope therapy works out for you.

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by precaryous

Im sorry, that sounds difficult. I'm glad you sought a second opinion about it.

I would feel uncomfortable, frustrated and insecure in a relationship like that.
I would wonder, can he be an effective T for me if he finds me attractive? Is his attraction to me distracting him?
Might he terminate me if I continue to talk about it?

He could discuss healthy boundaries.
He could at least explore this with you- why do I find myself in relationships like this?

He could discuss this-
"After two sexually dead long term relationships over 8 years and 2 years of this with the therapist, I wonder sometimes, where to I find all these men who are so attracted to me and yet have such iron willpower not to take any action."

Frack, do you stay with this T because you are attracted to him? I wonder, why do you stay?
Is he a good therapist in other ways? Does he have supervision?

I have had a relationship similar to this with a T. We became intimate. Afterwards, he was cagey like your T when I asked him what happened to the intimacy? He said things like, "I'll let you know.." (I'll let you know if I feel I want us to be intimate again.)

I became a stressed out mess. Had I done something wrong? Was he angry with me? I finally decided that I would not let him determine how my life would go. I told him that *I* decided we would not be intimate again.

Your T has told you he doesn't want to discuss his feelings/attraction to to you any further. You get to decide if you are willing to put up with that.

Hope therapy works out for you.

Thank you for talking to me about it so calmly and nicely and for understanding my feelings. This is what I was hoping for in part from the other therapist I saw.

I'm so sorry to hear what you went through (I know from your previous posts it was even worse). I know a little how messed up you must have felt because I had a similar experience with an uncle as a teen who was a mentor to me. I also feel that intimacy from my T would devastate me further.

Why do I stay? Yes, because I do feel that besides how we talk about this issue, he has been a good therapist for me. He navigated with me through ending my last relationship (of 7 years - at the start of therapy I couldn't imagine how I would leave, and wasn't even sure if I should, but after a year, I found the resources to do it, and I have not regretted it, it was a very good decision). He also helps me see how my anxieties arise and persist, and I feel he is a good guide for me.

I think I also consider staying because he seems so convinced that there is a way through for me, across these feelings. I want very badly to trust him, to believe that he knows how to take good care of me. Intellectually, I also know that to go through the transference can be painful but that a resolution is possible, and I wonder, could it really happen for me? Of course, at the same time, the thought of this desire for him dissipating makes me unbearably sad. I wonder what I am really sad for.

Lastly, I also keep seeing him because I have no close friends nearby (my closest friends who I confide in are my sister in the UK and a friend who lives in Israel) with whom I can talk regularly and he is my only source of support, and this is an especially stressful time

[frackfrackfrack]

PS: I don't know if he has supervision now, but I asked him if he had asked anyone else about my case, and he said he had consulted some of his colleagues.

[Lauliza]

I am attracted to my pdoc and I know that if I had had anything close to your experience I would be an emotional mess. If I were ever intimate with him, it would be even worse. I think this is the only reason I stay with him- because he doesn't go there, doesn't encourage anything and I know any fantasy will stay a fantasy. If there were any confusion it would be the opposite of what I need in my life. I hope you know deep down that his "iron willpower" has nothing to do with how he feels about you but how he feels about his career. It means he is a normal, mentally healthy person. Anyone else is a predator with no self control who doesn't deserve to work with other people. If he has discussed this with colleagues then he will not become intimate with you - someone will eventually report him (it doesn't have to be you). I've seen it happen and it no small issue - it will most definitely end his career. I am surprised he hasn't referred you out under the circumstances, but I think that says a lot about your relationship and how much he cares for you. I just hope you can transfer your feelings for him to someone that is more available to you. I also hope he encourages this and doesn't subconsciously discourage it to keep you focused on him.

[frackfrackfrack]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I am attracted to my pdoc and I know that if I had had anything close to your experience I would be an emotional mess. If I were ever intimate with him, it would be even worse. I think this is the only reason I stay with him- because he doesn't go there, doesn't encourage anything and I know any fantasy will stay a fantasy. If there were any confusion it would be the opposite of what I need in my life. I hope you know deep down that his "iron willpower" has nothing to do with how he feels about you but how he feels about his career. It means he is a normal, mentally healthy person. Anyone else is a predator with no self control who doesn't deserve to work with other people. If he has discussed this with colleagues then he will not become intimate with you - someone will eventually report him (it doesn't have to be you). I've seen it happen and it no small issue - it will most definitely end his career. I am surprised he hasn't referred you out under the circumstances, but I think that says a lot about your relationship and how much he cares for you. I just hope you can transfer your feelings for him to someone that is more available to you. I also hope he encourages this and doesn't subconsciously discourage it to keep you focused on him.

I don't think consciously he urges me. Maybe unconsciously, but I am not sure because he won't talk about his feelings, or just turns it on me and asks me what makes me feel that he is attracted. That makes me think that it's all in my head. Maybe it is.

How have you gone on so long working with your pdoc? Are you reaching any resolution to the transference? Are you aiming for that?

After I started dating and seeing somebody, maybe for a very short time, I felt my bf could keep my attention off of T, but it soon came back. I don't know if it is because this relationship is not right for me, or if it is just that I was already attracted to T and it would be hard for a real person to displace the fantasy I have of him.

He does care for me, but I don't think that's the reason he did not refer me. I think the reason is that in spite of any attraction, he thinks of me as any other client. he has his attraction under control and i don't think he feels anything for me emotionally. recently, he said something like it's as if I were to be attracted to a student who dissertation I was supervising (I am a professor). So I feel perhaps his attraction is not something that overwhelms him, and he thinks that he can function as my therapist. I once asked him how come his feelings seemed to be so easy for him to deal with compared to me, and he said "because it's my job". I think he is just a very practical, slightly unromantic sort of person.

[WrkNPrgress]

I'm sorry if this is inappropriate (or perhaps already discussed) but is it possible that your obsession with your T is deflecting from you making a decision about your real life relationship?

I know that for a while my Transference allowed me to escape a very unhappy relationship and imagine 'running away' with some one who seemed to fit the kindness and understanding I was hungry for. I finally made a decisions to leave my unhappy situation and although my Transference is still present, it's not nearly as powerful or desperate feeling and I can feel myself coming back to Me.

You have a right to be happy. What would happen if you focused on your real-life relationship instead of your T? Can you change something there that would better fit YOUR needs?