Narcissistic/egotistical

What makes one person feel they are better than another? That is to say that the person feels they are always right. It bothers me because I have come across people like this and I have found their large ego very triggering. Usually with this type of person I will either try not to have anything to do with them or turn into a child. I see where the trigger is coming from but in life I have got to learn to deal with ego/narccisstic people because they are out there in the world. I can't avoid them for ever and some of these people are so called professionals that I have to work with.

Well, as you said, you can't avoid them. Hmm...question their thinking? Maybe they aren't all that ego? Hmmm...

I think I've been accused of that before because I'm long winded and people think I make assumptions about where they are coming from, but I am far from over confident. I **** **** up all the time. Hope you can figure out how to deal with these A-holes

Confidence is important and being able to stand up for your self is important. Otherwise people can weave a web of BS and you'll end up stuck in it - and that's whether you're dealing with one or not.

"He who stands for nothing will fall for anything."
--Alexander Hamilton

Yes, I've experienced this. When confronted with these types of people something deep within me rises and shuts me down. It's powerful and I've not found a way to control it. The best I've done is try to document every interaction.

I was romantically involved with a classic textbook narcissist. Believe me when I say, coming in contact with such people in daily situations is easily dismissed. You can sluff it off and move on. If you're involved with one emotionally, it's a whole different scenario. Involvement, enmeshment with a true narcissist is truly damaging as there is nothing one can do to remedy the situation. Having had this experience, I do know a couple of people at work whom I would classify in this category, but now I know not
to let their words/actions affect me adversely.

I am in a similar position. People that are highly N trigger me like crazy. I just learned about it / discovered / identified it, though, this year (put a real word to the behavior), so I am feeling a little bit better now in my dealings with them, mostly my family members (I avoid them like the plague ).

I still don't know how to deal with Ns at the office. Yet. It's hit or miss while I work on developing a thicker skin.

Well, unfortunately there are alot of people that have strong narcisistic ways. Remember we all have some narcisistic qualities to us, but some people have so much that they only see their own needs and they don't truely empathize. And that is where I struggle myself with them. I have alot of empathy and I have found it difficult to interact with them because they don't.

I have had many discussions with my therapist about this because the attorney I interact with has very strong narcisistic ways about him. Infact, so much so that he completely embarassed me at my deposition.

The other thing unfortunate is that they do not know they are narcisists. They are completely unaware and are often very "entitled" people. I feel bad for anyone that has to work around alot of politicians because there are lots of them in that arena.
And they can talk on and on about what they think people need to hear in order to show they are very concerned about certain things, when actually they are not. It is all about "power" for them, power and control and lots of "adoration". You can always tell because "they wont budge from what "they think is important or what they want".
They typically walk very upright and tend to stick their chests out. Unless ofcourse they are old like my attorney, but he still has to "expose his chest" and open up his shirt so you can see it. Ugh, not attractive at all. They have no problem taking the ideas of others, and making it their own either. They will even spend money they don't have, the most important thing is "they have what they want which is whatever it takes to have power". They are good a making promises, but it is all so that they can be adored and it doesn't mean they will actually follow through with their promises. If you check and see if they donate to good causes, they don't but they will do it with the money of others, or to get that tax break. They will be the first to discredit anyone they "think" has a way of belittling them or has more power.

They only really pay attention to those that "adore them" so it sure isn't easy to debate with them, unless they can walk away feeling that they are the one that is "most powerful and in control". They like to have people of "influence" and are the "in group" or popular or weathy around them. They like to talk about what big lawyer they know, or what big college they went to, they don't like to talk about any of their faults or lacks. The bigger they are and more powerful, if they fall, so do many others but they don't care, they only care about how "they are hurting".

See, some of these show up in the average person, but with a Narcisist, they are the most important of all. People can be "attracted to them" because they can exude confidence and drive and things don't seem to bother them as much. We tend to admire someone who seems to have "control" over their emotions, we don't stop to think they don't care like we do.

The only thing they understand is "adoration". However, they can be swindled badly because of that too.

Open Eyes

Are these the prissy ones that sniff and stick their nose in the air? The condescending ones?

I am quite familiar with those types too I think those are two different types, althoigh I could be wrong. But they are equally annoying

I try to remind myself that usually narcissistic personally types have pain too.... they've been hurt along the way and some of these traits are defense mechanisms to ''protect themselves''...

And think as already mentioned, we all have just A smidgen of ego..... Just not all take it as far as some .

Just my two cents

My mom fits many characteristics of one even ext mentioned some of talks of her, she'd mentioned ''sounds like she had some narcissistic traits''

So can understand how it can be triggering, as well as with some ''control views''

Many hugs

(((Rose))),

It is not unusual for someone to not know how to identify one, it is not like people point it out to us when we are growing up. It is sad if a child has a parent that is one, usually it is only one parent with a submissive/passive other parent. The passive parent instinctually knows there can be a substancial cost if they don't give the N partner control.

They can be charming and charismatic, the life of the party and people can be very "loyal" to them. They often make sure they are "politically correct" and appear to have all the "social graces" from the outside. Many of them can be smart so it is not unusual for them to have a loyal following of people who don't see them for what they really are, that is why they can do so well in the political arena. They do know how to look like they are loyal and adore or respect others who also might be narcisistic with wealth and power.

A good example is Lance Armstrong, he had woven his power in alot of places, fooled alot of people, has no problem lying. And he fooled people in places where outing him could disrupt so much that he almost got away with what he was doing. Look how "high" his power went. And the "fear" he created around him.

I have seen this go on in the competitive horse world. I often felt I was swimming in a cespool of "big ego's" where the most important thing was winning and a lot of cold and heartless things went on that really upset me and shocked me quite frankly. The Lance Armstrong story was somewhat triggering to me because some of the things they did to the horses behind closed doors were awful.

I remember sitting at the awards dinner after my daughter and her horse won some big year end awards and tophies, and it felt bitter sweet to me to be honest. I just didn't feel it was worth what our horse had to go through to achieve that. We didn't ever drug him, but a season like that does take a toll, and I sat there thinking how much I didn't feel it was worth it. I didn't want my daughter to learn that the win justified the sacrifice of a good animal, that isn't horsemanship to me.

That horse really "loved" my daughter and he helped her learn and achieve so much.
The next year he fell ill and died in her lap on the way to the vet hospital. It was such a horrible experience, so sad and tramatic. When I look back on all that, my daughter really learned how fragile these animals are and we had talks about what was important about this competitive world. Now my daughter rides for "acomplishment" in building healthy skills in the horse. She smiles not at the winning, but for the ride, and how well the horse is gaining in his abilities to do the competitive task put in front of him. She knows there are competitors who win because of connections and drugs and egos and money. She has chosen to rise above that, knowing it is there, and taking her pride in the healthier ways.

So my advice to others who might find themselves in a sea of Narcisists, is to think about what "you" want, disconnect from them and what they consider "value" as well. I can tell you that I have found others that are like me and my daughter, who respect the sport and the skills and knowledge achieved that are separate from that narcisistic game that is played. If you consider what is really important, choose to disconnect from all the things Narcisists consider "important" which is part of their "power", you can find a much happier way to live your life.

Understand that Narcisists think that the most important thing is "power and recognition" they cannot see anything but the limelight. They often want to take whatever shortcuts they can to gain "power and have some long lasting mark or sign that they are "the best". Whatever is "sacrificed" or crumbles around them, they simply don't care, they only care about that "limelight". It never ceases to amaze me how many people believe them, buy their agenda, and follow along in blindness.

It "is" difficult to be involved with "their world", however there are lots of them and they tend to be at the top of the heap and dance around with an air of power that tends to intimidate so many around them. But there are groups of people who are healthier to be around that can respect others who like them, choose to do life differently.

Sigh, yeah, I know pegasus, they can even be in an environment you would not expect them to be in too.
They are anywhere there can be power and money even in churches and places that are designed to "help" people. They have a way of looking over you like you are not even there. Politicians have to have people who remind them to actually "look at the people that ask them questions". They rely on people to stage situations that add "the human element" that is being addressed and needed to sustain "power". But challenge them and they can focus on you with "all" their attention and they will look for every opportunity to belittle you even if it means "lieing".

I have been on the receiving end of that challenge and these individuals can spread lies and deceptions that have no truths at all. It can be amazing how they will pull all their possible resouces and power and cohorts together, hide secrets and make the "whistle blower" look bad. Again, the Lance Armstrong situation is a really good example of that.

Open Eyes

Open Eyes - You hit the nail on the head. these people's behavior has worn me down to a point I have a real struggle turning a blind eye, I value truth and honesty. There is a couple that are complete narcissists, they constantly boast of (you name it), most of it are lies and opinions carefully worded to lead you to a certain conclusion, there is always a grain of truth so they can say, I never said that. (example the man is saying he will be busy with a work related course of study that will result in “the equivalent of a master’s degree”) He’s not actually saying he’s enrolled in a graduate program or that he is getting a master’s degree. The real story is he is getting some on-the-job training. His wife is the same way, she “wrote a thesis”, reality, she wrote an 8 page research paper, most of the information she got off the internet and reworded. They have an agenda, so this is all done for a very specific purpose. There are also some dishonesty issues with items they have walked off with. Neither one of them have an education or achievements to speak of. They have alienated themselves with our local group and are moving onto other groups. Fortunately many of the groups interact with each other, so they will be discovered soon enough. Since they come from our group, I will be asked about them, this puts me in a very uncomfortable position, I won’t lie and pass the problem along, I do have to back up my opinion with facts and examples. I am kind of embarrassed they are from my group, especially when they become problems.

Your local group is lucky to be rid of them.

The horse trainer I talked about in one of my posts was similar to what you are discribing. I had to endure a lot for standing up to him, he said some awful lies about me. But after a while (because people did watch him after I spoke up) he was caught locking a "disabled" child in his car for several hours. He was reported and no longer allowed on those show grounds. Finally he got to a point where no one respected him, even veterinarians would have nothing to do with him.

Sadly the people who insisted on staying with him? Their children paid the price sadly. They became very loose and trashy as that is what they were permitted to see under his instruction. I tried to tell them, they wouldn't listen, it was sad to see these students turn out the way they did. My daughter is one that will see something bad like this and have no problem not only pointing it out, but walking away from associating with it too. I did have a lot at risk, but I chose right, because my daughter was the most important risk of all. We can either teach our children that they have to stay in a bad situation, or have the right to leave it. My daughter was afraid, asked me where will we go, what other trainer will take us?
I replied, there will be someone, someone better, I promise. And there was someone better.

Open Eyes

My dad was this kind of know it all person with very strong opinions - just recently I've started to wonder if he was a narcissist. He reacted badly if someone disagreed with him. I got very good at looking like I was paying attention when really I'd gone to my happy place. Even so, I am really loyal to him too. But even now, all these years later, I have a really hard time disagreeing with someone even when they are obviously wrong, esp if they are male and loud, controlling, etc.

Thanks everyone for your insights.

I'm still not sure how to deal with them. It's very triggering and they make me feel like an idiot, I guess that is what they like to make people feel like. I was hoping someone would come up with a magic formula for dealing with these people. Try and let it go over my head? I don't know.

(((((((Pegasus))))))))),

I wish I had the magic answer, I have been dealing with it in therapy because I have to deal with an attorney that is one, and he has made me feel like an idiot too. What you have to realize is that they do this because they "believe" they are more important than anyone else. They need to feel like they have power and they need to be "admired". They do not "see you" or anyone else, they are too "self important" for that, they have "no empathy". But they act like they have it and they can be good at "acting like they have it".

What I can say to you pegasus, and I know you are "very empathetic" and "respect the value of others lives", is you have to learn how "not to let them get to you". If you know what they are, know what "you" are and realize that what you do for others is the "important" part of what you do in your job.

Often what Naricisists feel about "quality empathetic people like you" is they see "weakness". You turn them off because they feel that "your kindness and caring is dumb". I understand "they trigger you". But you also "trigger them". You have the one thing that they are the most afraid of. The problem is, "they don't even know it", because Narcisists do not know they are Narcisists.

Often a Naricisist can take "your kind hugs sometimes" if they can look at it as "adoration of them" but they will not hug you back. And often they don't like to be "hugged" because it makes them "uncomfortable". It is a similar kind of uncomfortable that a victim of abuse struggles with. You can often point them out by the way they "shake hands" because they stiffen up and can have a robotic way of regrouping their movements until they get some "distance".

What you have realize pegasus is what you "do have" that is so "precious" that they just can't get near having.

You have to consider that sometimes they are like this because they were abandoned somehow in their childhood. Or, they were adored and spoiled so much that they never went without and just "expect admoration" and never struggled enough to develope normal human empathy.

So, know pegasus, that you are not an idiot and you are a person with "qualities" that the people that you tend to at the end of their days are truely lucky to have you be there for them when they are frightened alone and nearing the end of life. Whereas, the Narcisist is all business and can easily say "next please".

So if you are in a situation that you have to deal with them, give them their damn admoration and go back to doing what you are best at, being empathetic and kind to those that truely need it.

Does that help?

Open Eyes

That helps a lot Open Eyes, thank you. I need to read your response a few more times. I think you are saying I need to value me and what I do and not focus on them? Yes? You are right in saying that they have no real empathy. I care and I hurt with caring, they don't have that... I guess that is the clash. Clashing personalities, I'll try not to let them make me feel like an idiot. Thank you again.

Yes, seeing what your "real value" is that you are not seeing. It is looking at the whole picture of what it means that you have "not" been seeing. Yes there is a clash with them, not just for you but for anyone like you.

Bullies can pick their victims the same way. They often pick the quiet sensitive ones. And these quiet "sensitives" don't understand why. Often an abusive parent that can also be Narcisistic will pick on the weakest child as their victim. They can pick the one that expresses the weakest part of themselves. Which is usually the fear of "feeling empathy". After all, it takes a lot of courage to "feel". They don't want to "feel" like that.

I am triggered by selfish powerful people also. In my family, they seem concerned with their own needs, and think everyone gets what they deserve. While suicidal I never receive emotional support from them, even though my Dad was a suicider. This seems wrong, since they command high social ranking, it seems. How can educated people be so thoughtless. Do they want me dead? Narcisism can be deadly to people like me. I need affection badly, and they can exploit this. Then comes betrayal,, uggh. I need to protect myself with strong caring people who can help me resist their lies. They are sick and deluded with ideolgies of a better world they believe they are making, I believe. They do the wrong things, for the right reasons, in their own mind, I think. I am triggered by them also.

(((brookwest))),

I am so sorry that you don't have sympathetic people around you in your family. Yes, you are right, that can be extra hard when someone is struggling with PTSD and needs love and support while trying to heal. They will be the first ones to come back with the "just" comments too.

As I mentioned before, everyone has "some" narcisistic qualities in them, but it becomes a disorder when someone has too much of it and others begin to suffer from that. It is important to remember that people don't knowingly "try" to be intentionally mean or become one, they honestly think that they are doing the right thing and that "they are somehow special and above all others". They are typically the ones that will step up to the plate for a chance at power, simply because that is what is most important to them. Unfortunately "cover ups" and "lies" are just something they consider, a necessary normal part of the climb to power, gain and control and fame. When they get power, everyone must adore and protect them. They give rewards for adoration, and each reward is not truely for others, but simply because they know they will maintain being adored and should own the seat of power and position. This is why the phrase "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

When I think about the trainer that I was exposed to, all he wanted was to be "adored" and "have power and win". Thinking back and recalling the things he would say and do, I can see how he would do anything in his effort to look like he was someone "important" in the competitive horse world. I remember how much he hated another trainer, and that was because the other trainer was "adored" like he wanted to be. That other trainer was his focus and he was obsessed with trying to beat him and bring him down somehow. And because I happened to pick a horse that ended up being so talented, I was privy to alot of his thoughts. He was suspicious of everyone, and he painted several people as evil, when they were not, all they were guilty of is "not adoring him" and being "successful". The things that came out of his mouth never ceased to amaze me. But all that time, I didn't know what a Narcisist was.

It is hard when in an environment where so many of them gather if you don't understand or know what they are. There is a lot of tension and pressure and wealthy parents who needed to feel "their child was the star and the most gifted one".

When I made the choice that I wanted to break away from this trainer, report the way he was neglecting his children and try to find a trainer that was a better role model for my child, I had to dig deep to find my courage.

When I did that, at the same time I was separated because my husband had finally confessed he had been unfaithful. I had found a trainer that I felt could help my daughter finish the season. But once I moved all hell was going to come down and I was going to experience the true wrath of taking something a Narcisist felt he owned.

I had to endure going to these show grounds surrounded by whispers and gossip that was horrible. And because of that type on environment it is normal that people soak these terrible lies up and consider them as "possible truths". This man stalked me and my daughter and made sure that he was positioned close to us and spared no effort to try to intimidate my daughter so she would be frightened and lose her ability to concentrate and be able to compete. He would make harassing and threatening calls to this new trainer and tell her things about me that were creepy and twisted.
He had one of his students who was very smart, extremely high IQ find a way to hack into our computer where he got access to our credit card and ordered xrated tapes.

When people talk about feeling "alone" when around these kinds of people, I know to the depths of me what that feels like. I was separated, trying to run my farm, do my business and try to be strong to get my daughter through to the end of that season.
I could not show my real fear in front of my daughter either, I had to express stength and determination even though I was very alone and frightened inside.

What I "can" say is that because I managed to stand tall and show determination, my daughter went into that ring and was able to amaze everyone with how well she focused and was able to do really well. And then, slowly, because she was sooo strong, trainers began to cheer her on. They made it a point to stand next to him to let her know they stood in support of her.

It really is scarey to be around these people, and they can be amazingly determined and cold and calculating and selfish and suspicious. But, you have to find a way to dig deep, take pride in what is good in you. And I know that can be sometimes very lonely and scarey. I have shared my story so that if someone begins to self doubt and allow themselves to believe they should feel like an "idot", don't. Remember my story instead. I faced so much so alone and scared with my child in tow. I stood as strong as I could "inspite of the awful whistpers and doubts and stalkings" and I overcame so much.

Pegasus, as I mentioned, you need to see what you do have, and you "are" special and fill a real need. I know how hard it can be and how people like this can belittle, but as long as you remember what you "do have" that they "dont" you can learn how to take pride inspite of them.

Open Eyes

I am or have been narcissistic to some extent. One of the reasons is that I WAS special, the other reason was I felt like that somehow made me more deserving. You can feel more deserving with no talents and have talents without being narcissistic too, of course.

I grew up and sort of came in the hands of less intelligent people than myself that should teach or help me. It upset me. It actually is quite hard for a young person to be much more intelligent than people older, and also have creative talents other people lack. And in the middle of this mess the social norm was that I should look up to THEM!

I had a terrible problem looking down on people when I was young. So this thread feels a little too hostile towards people like myself for me to post, but I'll do it anyway.

Life has humbled me. My physical illness and part of the ADD have made my life dysfunctional. I have had to admit I'm a loser these days. I once had the chance to be something, but now I will just rot away and die. I still feel life is unfair for doing that to me, and sometimes I see it as a punishment from god for my pride.

Also I have actually learned as time went by, other qualities. I'm still quite clever even though benzo use ate like 20 IQ points, but I have a wider outlook and I have learned to appreciate other types of intelligence, and some of those I suck at. So I learned that even having talents, I suck at other things. That has humbled me.

I have also been broken by bullies, mostly in psychiatric care. I guess they thought I had to be broken into nothing. When you break a narcissist you end up with a big fat nothing, extreme self hatred for a while, anger and feelings of vengeance and a load of crap. You don't end up with a normal person... The crappiest thing is they broke me not for being narcissistic because I hid that, they broke me when I tried to be GOOD and FAIR and tell the truth...

Oh.. F this....

Anyway, I'm nothing similar to when I was say 25. I actually kind of long for the narcissistic attitude. I mean it's not totally gone, I can still feel really bad things when being "slighted", but for most parts I'm a freaking nice person.

I've sort of always realized that cooperation is more beneficial than competition so I have not really been a meanie or anything.

Still, pointing out narcissists as the bad ones.... the TRUE evil are passive bystanders. That is my opinion.

So yea... IDK. Whatever.

((Jimi)),

I tried to make it a point to make sure people reading my posts understood that all people have "some narcisism" in them. Also, that "narcisists do not know they are narcisists".

I think your contribution is good because you are expressing how painful it can be to be torn down when you don't realize you may have adapted some unhealthy ways of looking at life and others.

I honestly don't think people intentionally set out purposely to become a Narcisist.
Often that can happen as a result of how they were raised or had to deal with feeling "less than" in someway.

I had a therapist for a while that eventually told me that he was a narcisist and a habitual lier, he also became addicted to heroine. He too was "torn down" as you are expressing and finally realizing his reality, went to college to become a therapist.

What I am trying to explain to others more is to understand that they can be triggered by someone sensitive, even be mean to them, because of how they are reminded of their own deep insecurities. Which is what you are also expressing in your post.

What happens jimi is that when someone is very empathetic and sensitive and are on the recieving end of dealing with Narcisists, they can truely feel very threatened and as pegasus put it, like an idiot, when they are not.

I am trying to help pegasus try to look the people in her environment with a better understanding of what they are so that she doesn't have to feel so threatened by them.

Thanks for your input. I hope you continue to make gains and improve inspite of they way you have had to experience "narcisism".

Open Eyes

I get upset by the words people use sometimes. Narcissistic. Egotistical. Arrogant. The reason is, words like these turn the truth upside down. They seem to say that these people are powerful; they make you feel powerless. But in fact they are just covering up their own feelings of powerlessness.

If you can distance yourself a bit from how you immediately react to them -- you see that they feel powerless and are covering it up -- then your approach to them changes...

Sometimes they aren't all that powerless though. Used to know a girl solely online who managed to ruin my relation with a whole site, because she felt slighted by me and was better at manipulating and lying than I ever thought. People I thought were my friends on a deeper basis were turned on me, it was like she had a magic wand. Prior she had talked someone into suicide and she also manipulated her "friend" into a serious attempt. So it's not like you have to even go outside to meet them...

Also met several psychiatrists who were either narcissists or psychopaths. They caused a lot of damage to a lot of people, and I'm sure with lives lost. When I realized one of them was narcissistic I totally played her. It's funny but she was totally gullible when it came to flattery....

Those people have decided to live life like that. I have realized I have several conflicting parts of myself and some are better chained down.

Pegs, I don't have a magic soultion, but maybe some ideas....

I believe you and I have similar reactions for similar reasons. My abusers were also narcisstic. Exposure to narcissistic behavior today triggers the old stuff.

Some things that help me...

self-talk - I'm NOT an idiot and neither are you. I'll mentally remind myself that just because someone thinks they are smarter than me, or are actully smarter than me, doesn't mean I'm stupid. You know you are not stupid. Don't give them the power over you by feeling stupid. No one can make you feel anything.

It also helps me to remember that this narcissist does not have the power to harm me. My abusers were able to cause me physical and emotional pain. Any narcissists I run into in life now do not have that pwoer.

avoidance - I try to minimize my interaction with this people just like I would minimize my interaction with anyone who is toxic to me.

documentation - Like someone else mentioned, if you are dealing with a narcissist at work document, document, document your interactions with them.