[WePow]

Ok guys - I think I may decide to talk with my T about the rupture stuff that happened last week and Monday, but I am still debating on HOW to do this. I really am thinking about doing it by asking T to NOT be T but to be an outside T. Sorry this may be hard to describe... but I want to talk about the events without talking to T as the one who did the events.

Anyone else ever try to do that? How did it go?

[Melbadaze]

I think its more helpful to keep discussing things with your T just as he/she is. If your meaning you want her to just be a regular person instead of an objective observer, than yes I've felt that way and protested about it, but T has remained the objective observer, and thats whats helped me the most, the trying to arrange people/places/things to how I belief I want them is something I've had to look at.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

If your meaning you want her to just be a regular person instead of an objective observer, than yes I've felt that way .

on the other hand, if you are wanting her to be an outside T instead of herself so you can just discuss dispassionately, and not get so emotionally involved in the discussing, I would say, just talk to her directly, let the emotions show; my T says that the emotions have to come out WePow, it won't be helpful if you dodge them by addressing them to a nonexistent T. The rupture is between the two of you,; if you set her up as an outside T, the rupture won't be worked on. (I know this isn't what you prefer to hear probably but I am giving you what I've been through. Ruptures hurt; but they serve an important purpose. Ask Treehouse)

Even if there are emotions, I'm sure you willl maintain yr respectful dealing with T as another human being. If you fear that you will lose that and just roar then by all means warn her ahead of time and assure her that you do have respect for her, despite your volume. Beem there, too......

hugs to you

I think you really need to address your concerns to t directly. It seems a bit like avoidance to "handicap" t like that so that he/she can't speak for herself. Would you like t to say you can't respond for yourself? You have a good t who will be able to maintain objectivity. Just address the issue directly.

[SpottedOwl]

((WePow))

When I first shared some difficult stuff with T, I referred to myself in the third person. It was about what happened to 'her', rather than about what happened to 'me'.

T just let me talk like that, and pretty quickly I was able to say 'me' instead of 'she'. I found out later it is a coping mechanism to separate oneself from uncomfortable feelings. But there is nothing wrong with it.

If you need to talk about 'another client' and 'another T', then do it. IMHO, the important thing is that you find some way to talk about it.

[BlackCanary]

I've also done it where I said "Someone important in my life hurt my feelings...", referring to the T. It's a method for opening the door on the topic, then you can walk in. You can make it easier on yourself for the getting started.
Another method: email ahead of time that you want to talk about a situation but you are not sure how to start, since it involves you and T. What does T suggest? In this way, the door has been opened a crack before you arrive and you may be able to move into the topic more directly.
Good LUck

[lily99]

for the past 2 years, there was someone in my life (in a pos of authority) who I had major transference for, as well as my T. When I started trying to talk about these feelings to T, I was SO uncomfortable and just shut down. I didn't want her to know that I was capable of such feelings. So T being clever, started asking me about this other person and what I felt about her. And that's when all of the feelings came pouring out. Didn't realize til afterwards lol... sneaky T

oh, I'll just add that while this made talking about the feelings much easier, it also got the ball rolling and suddenly talking to T directly seemed less daunting. It's still not easy and I still "shut down" sometimes, but I don't think that talking to T about the relationship is ever easy

((((((((WePow))))))))

On the one hand, I think it's important to talk about what you need to talk about HOWEVER you need to do it. Like SpottedOwl, I almost always talk about the SA when I was little as happening to "her", not "me". Because I just am where I'm at, and I can only do what I can do. I need to talk, and if that's how I need to do it right now, it's okay. And it's okay for you to talk to T however you need to.

On the other hand...one of the most empowering things in therapy for me has been working through ruptures with my T. We have had some HUGE ruptures, and some smaller ones, and everything in between. The first time we had a rupture, I spent the weekend in tears - I was inconsolable - because i was so scared to go in on Monday and talk to him about what happened and how it made me feel. I wrote and rewrote and rewrote a letter to him until I had all of the words that I needed to be able to talk about it. On Monday, I just went in, took a deep breath, and DID IT. It was scary.

T didn't get angry, or shame me, or tell me to leave, or anything like that. He listened very carefully, and considered what I was saying very seriously. He sincerely apologized. He joked that he should just shut down his practice (because it was such a ridiculously horrible session). That was over 2 years ago, and we've talked about it since then...he told me that because of what I told him, he's changed how he does therapy, and gives himself more of a transition time after meetings and between clients, especially ones that trigger his own issues. (the bad session was after a meeting that he had).

T's openness when I talked to him made me feel SO much safer about bringing up other things when they happened, and we have always managed to work through whatever comes up. I really think that in some ways that is why we have the relationship that we do...we've had to do a lot of work *together*.

I'm glad you're going to bring it up, however you do it. It is okay to let T (or anyone else) know when they hurt us in some way. Good for you, WePow

[elliemay]

I'm really sorry for the rupture. As Treehouse indicated, every single rupture I have ever had with my T has ended up being a really good thing (believe it or not).

They've ended up reinforcing that, no matter what transpires, the relationship between us is strong enough to talk it out, make sure each side is heard, and the relationship is strong enough to survive it. A disagreement, hurt feelings and disappointment can be dealt with and nothing gets derailed.

IMO, if you took your T out of the equation that might undermine that it is actually you and your T working through this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your T is the person that actually did this and may be totally wrong in their actions. They certainly can let us down, but that may be okay. But both of you may need to present to reach that okay-ness.

Peace to you during this upheaval.

[WePow]

Thanks all. ((( Tree ))) that is amazing how you can be with your T.
I did tell T about what was going on without hiding. Although he did tell me we could have done it the other way if I had needed to do it that way.

There was a big issue last night that floored me. I still did not feel safe enough to call him up so sent an email (several)... I asked him to let me know he got the email with the details as I was in shock but he did not do that... so I finally begged to know he was there and he said "I am here" and that was it. Then he wrote again after I replied to that and it helped to keep me safe until I could talk with a friend. I almost said "a real friend" and maybe honestly that is how I feel. I guess I was stupid for my own self to actually consider that T cared. Sure he does but I see things in a totally different perspective now. That's all I really want to say about it. Just that life continues to affirm the lessons of childhood. I just need to stop looking for things to be any different. At least now I get it I suppose.

[rainbow8]

I may be off-base, WePow, but are you having trouble with accepting T's boundaries? It may be my own stuff, but I when I read your post I thought "T is shattering her dreams." He is not there in the way you want him to be. He's NOT your friend. He has limits. I HATE T's limits. You think they aren't there when T is friendly and caring, but then, suddenly, when you need him, he's got his limits and boundaries! That's the way therapy is. I think sometimes Ts tease us like that. Not on purpose, but it's inherent in their jobs.

I guess I was stupid for my own self to actually consider that T cared. Sure he does but I see things in a totally different perspective now.

If he cared, he would have answered your first email like a "real friend" would do.
If he cared, he would have answered to your email with more than "I'm here." If he cared, he would respond to your details and be more interested. If he cared, he would__________ Fill in the blank.
I have struggled with the question of how much T cared, and if she really cared, she would____________. She only cares because I pay her, or: she cares, but she has all these stupid boundaries and limits that are for my own benefit, but I hate them. They're for HER benefit because we're not really friends or relatives, so she can choose to be there when she wants to. T is not going to be mother, father, friend, mate, or anything other than T.

I'm sorry if this is not what it's about, and if I hijacked your thread, WePow. You can tell I have strong feelings about this subject. I would have wanted T to be there more for me, and been heartbroken when she wouldn't have been. But, at the same time, when she disappointed me I realized I had to have real people in my life and not HER, though she was there 100% in my sessions. This is Bt I'm talking about, as well as former Ts. It's the same with Kt. I know it is, though she hasn't disappointed me yet.

I'm sorry you're thinking that life confirms the lessons of childhood. That doesn't sound good. PC people would not disappoint you that way because we WOULD be your real friends. Does this make any sense at all? If not, I'm sending you more hugs anyway because I care about you.

[WePow]

(((( rainbow )))) actually, those are excellent words of wisdom! :-) Thank you!
I do have boundary issues. The odd thing is that I do not at all blame T for any of the internal pain I am in. I know for certain it is all my own fault and my own doing... the way I see things or thing things should be. It is just so confusing for me because he tells me "trust me" and then when I do... it hurts in some way or the other... and I just don't know what he means when he says "trust me"... So I suppose now it just means "Trust me to be the normal T" :-) LOL at myself!

((((((((((((((((((WePow))))))))))))))))))))



My T usually sends me e-mails that say "I'm here" too. But I don't think that means that he doesn't care, and I don't think that it means that your T doesn't care either. I know that my T is very very very busy with his life outside of the office, and even though he cares about me, we have a client/T relationship and that isn't like any other relationship.

The boundaries can be difficult for sure, especially when we need help because we're suffering in some way. I think what finally made me come to a place of peace regarding the boundaries is this: T and I have a totally unique relationship, unlike ANY other relationship. It's not parent/child, brother/sister, friend, lover...it's T/client. He can hold my deepest secrets and no one else can. He is totally focused on ME when we are together, in a way no one else would be. His only goal is to help me heal.

When I think about the T/client relationship in that way, it makes the boundaries a little easier for me. I do know how much they suck. My T is 100% unavailable on the weekends, and sometimes it feels like this weird abyss. But I wouldn't trade the boundaries, because they keep me safe.

I don't know if that helps. If not, toss it! and just accept this:

[WePow]

(((( Tree )))) thank you for sharing that. It helps a lot. I have had to fight a lot the past two days but made it. Sure, I ended up with the dissociative symptoms again - but at least I know my alters are there... even though I guess T wants them to not be. IDK. It is hard because my S/O wants me to have my one alter come out a lot more than she does. But when I am dissociative, I am not healthy. T wants me to intigrate. And I am trying to do that. It is like I am once again caught in a major double bind...

So I have not sent any more emails to T even though I was suffering. I did it in silence to T ... with the help of PC and my friend at work. But I can't tell here on PC or my friend what is going on deep inside of me. And I can not longer tell T because I know now what it means for a T to "be there"....

[zooropa]

wepow, I'm sorry you're going through this. I can hear your pain and fear.

Could you talk some more about what you mean when you say "I know what it means for a T to 'be there' "?

eta: You mentioned what your s/o wants (to see more of a certain alter) and what your T wants (integration), but what do YOU want? Trying to do whatever it is for someone else isn't going to move you along your path of healing. What does Wepow want?

[WePow]

((((( zoo ))))) For me, I finally "got it" that T saying "I'm available" and "trust me" means the same thing that it meant from anyone else in my life... IDK.... I'm sorry. THIS just cut too deep. I had to "beg" my T to give me what I needed after I had already asked. And I think that triggered me because of the abuse from my ex-H and the whole $*%&# begging thing. UGGG!

As to what I want... well, honestly just silence and void. But if the universe insists on keeping me a part of itself, then at least to not be in agony day after day deep inside my soul... and having to smile and pretend to the universe that I am just fine and dandy... And me not trusting any single soul in the entire universe.... my only trust is in strangers that can not get close enough to touch me in truth.... I can care but only on MY terms. When I try to care and allow someone to care about me, then THIS (what happened with T) happens. It happens time after time after time in every single relationship I have ever had - so it must not be anyone else's fault. It is me. Something deep inside me was broken - maybe my illusion that life could be fun or that love exists somewhere in the universe. I do not mean to be negative but this is what my soul is feeling. It no longer matters I suppose. I will keep doing the breathing and being and play the role of the living for whatever grand master play conductor is running the show... and when sleep finds me... I will no longer hurt. It is not a choice I will make as that failed. But I will not fight it... if that makes any sense.

I feel like in a very strange way that I am taking up space in a universe that should have went to someone else.

Thank you for listening - that means a lot to me, Zoo.

[zooropa]

You have been so brave, wepow, in putting yourself out there and taking risks in order to get better. I just want to say that, first. You don't have to worry if you are being negative or not, you don't have to put on that happy face here. We are happy for you when you are happy and just as willing to be here for you when you are not.

Secondly, I'm so sad for you. I see so much of myself in your words, and I know your pain, I really do. Feeling let down, abandoned, by everyone in your life, feeling like you are here without a purpose other than feeling pain. Yeah, I know that too well.

Also, the part about feeling like it must be YOU that is what is "wrong" in every relationship, because you are the only constant. I used that same word you did, broken, in talking about this very thing with my T. It is so hard to feel so broken, in such a deep, deep way that cannot be touched or even seen by anyone else.

I know that right now you feel hopeless about your relationship w/T, but I still have hope. I hope that you are able to work through this rupture and that you will learn in the process that you are NOT broken, that there is more to life than pain.

[WePow]

(((((((((Zoo ))))))))) Tons of thanks!!

Actually, last night I had a dream that I think was a form of a breakthrough about all of this. My T has been trying to get me to "grow up" and "protect" my inner child. But I had no clue HOW to do that!

My dream was that someone dropped off (( abandonment )) a newborn baby ((innocence)) and just expected me to take care of it. I had no connection with the infant at all - did not have any known family ties or love or interest even. But there I was left with this small, helpless, crying "thing".

I could not get anyone else to see that baby was there or take it from me. Friends were talking to me but I could not get them to see the baby (being invisable to the world). It started to make me very angry. Then I was going places and would come home to find the infant in the same spot where I left "it" but no one had fed it or changed the diaper or anything. It was crying and no one cared at all. I felt horrified and sad. I have NO IDEA how to take care of a baby (I am not a mom). But I decided to try to do whatever I thought I needed to do. The baby liked that and started to respond to me. I started to panic because the baby wanted hugs!! (my terror of intamacy).

Then I had to go to the store but this time decided to take THE baby with me since no one else would take care of "it". I found a car seat and was strugling with it (safety issues). As I was doing this, the baby started to get older and IT turned into a SHE. She kept growing and I could not get her to fit into the car seat and was afraid we would get a ticket. Then she looked at me and she was the Little Me from my profile picture!!

I was so shocked. I just took her out of the car seat and gave her a big hug. She was talking to me and jabbering and I was laughing. Then I woke up.

I think my T was allowing me the SPACE I NEEDED to find a way to get into touch with that hurt innocent inner child. If he would have done what I wanted - for him to comfort her, I would not have been forced into internal motherhood.

For me, that dream last night is a very big event. One of the largest steps of healing of my life.

[Perna]

Oh, what a wonderful, powerful dream, WePow! Thank you for sharing it. I had a dream of that power once that changed everything in my life and therapy afterwards.

[zooropa]

WOW, wepow, that is an amazing dream! And you have tremendous insight into what the various parts of it meant. I am so, so happy for you. Such a powerful dream, and that feeling of moving ahead in your healing...that's just so great!