[zooropa]

had my session today, T right off the bat told me we weren't doing trauma work today. FINE BY ME.

then at the end of the session (which she cut short to 50 mins instead of our usual 75, I assume because we didn't do trauma work) she said that starting next week we are going to do things differently. That the way we've been doing this work seems to her to be "long and dragged out and may be retraumatizing" me. She said it's as if we have "frankenstein boots on" ( ) and are just slogging through it, causing more pain.

So I'm supposed to make note of what triggers me this week and we will start working on which skills to use to manager the triggers.

I don't even know how I feel about this. Certainly the way we have been doing trauma work has taken a toll on me, and obviously (from my other threads here) I have concerns about the issue of retraumatization.

Still, I was so close to finishing telling her the story. Does this mean I won't get the chance to finish?

I can feel that I'm sort of triggered just by her making that change, by her announcing it to me in such a way rather than asking me what I thought about it, and by her cutting the session short. So I'm trying not to react from that triggered place.

some of my thoughts: what if I don't know what triggers me? Does this change mean that I did something wrong somehow? She has seemed so solidly sure all along that we were walking down the path toward healing. Was she wrong? Was I?

what I feel right now is just a lot of confusion and fear.

I could really use some of your collective wisdom and differing points of view, PC. Lay it on me.

[jexa]

I think it's a DBT thing that your T is so directive, zoo. But I think you have the right to finish your story. You have the right to do more than manage triggers. You have the right to sleep through the night without the terrible nightmares. How else is that going to happen?

I think your T is right to worry about being retraumatizing to you.. but it may be that she thinks she is taking on your voice and speaking for your needs right now.

I'm not great at giving advice right now, just wondering why your T did the sudden turn-around. ?

[zooropa]

thank you, jexa. Anything you share with me is welcome.

I'm not sure why the sudden turn-around, other than: last week at my session I told her that I didn't want to come, that I didn't want to do trauma work. I told her that I need to feel in charge and that it's starting to feel like another violation, being forced to talk in there.

I guess she's been thinking about that over the course of the week? I don't know. I'm thinking about emailing or calling her to ask a couple questions, once I work out what those questions are. I'm hoping that I can figure that out through talking about it here.

I just felt really disconnected during the session, from the beginning and all along. I keep telling myself that T was having an "off" day and that it doesn't have to have anything to do with me. That not everything is always about ME.

[eskielover]

It's sort of like when we are teaching someone how to ride a horse & a certain technique just isn't working to get a certain movement accomplished. The teacher sees the big picture & even though one path seemed to be right, there comes a time when we can see that the result we were hoping for just isn't happening, so it's important to try another method that may work better. We pay the T to know all the possible techniques that they can come up with & make available for us & hopefully one of those techniques will succeed with the necessary result. Professionals are trained to know all the possible techniques to try, that is why we hire professionals & not just wing it with friends who aren't trained.

Sometimes we get comfortable with a technique even though it's not working, so it feels very uncomfortable to change even though it might be a much better technique after we get used to is as we got used to the past technique.......gotta give them a chance.

Give it time & be open to the possibilities rather than closing up on the change due to fear. Trauma does not have a cut & dried treatment method & it's sort of a trial & error sort of thing with the T having a bag of tools they have available when one doesn't work, they need to try another. When we are lucky enough to have a T who is flexible in their treatment methods, it's good for us to try to be as flexible as possible in being open to the options in hopes that another method will end up working better.

You might be very pleasantly surprised & find that this new idea of your T will work much better..never know until you try.

If you feel like you need to finish your story, I think that might be a good thing to communicate to your T because leaving something hanging isn't always the best thing either. Think there will probably be a good compromise worked out .

Think it will all work out better in the end.

Best wishes

[WePow]

Zoo, it does make sense that your T would want to do something that is going to help you in a "faster" and "less painful" way. Sounds like she just wants to rip the bandaid off - you know?

I think you should list it as a trigger - the whole part of feeling like you are "not allowed" to tell your story. For me, that was a HUGE trigger because my whole childhood was spent with teachers thinking I made up stuff... or that I was exagerating! So when T took time to actually HEAR my story - that was the most validating part of the whole process.

But she doesn't want to have you suffer either. So how to balance the two?

[zooropa]

so, my T called me about something unrelated, but since I had her on the phone I said I had a couple of questions for her.

I asked her if, because we are changing tactics now, does that mean I was doing it wrong, somehow? Also, I told her that I feel like I'm close to the end of my story and I wonder now if I will ever get a chance to finish telling the story. I said that I trust her and I'm not trying to argue with her, and that I think managing triggers is great, but that I wanted, WANT, more than that out of my life. That it feels like giving up on the idea of healing.

Her response was pretty much what you said, eskie. She said it feels like we've been paddling upstream and instead we're going to get out of the water and walk for a while. It's coming to the same goal from another angle. That makes sense to me.

I still don't really feel ok about it, though. She said, if you want to finish telling your story, we can do that. But all along she's been telling me that telling the story is the way to heal from it. That it was vital. I've been going in there week after week and left torn up and raw and bruised, but I thought it was for a REASON. Now she says IF I want to tell the story, we can do that? It just doesn't sit right with me.

I think a lot of it has to do with fear of change, and with me wanting and needing to see T as stable and consistent. I know this is triggering stuff from my childhood, old, early stuff for me, about not having adults I could count on to show me the way. I know that, and it's still scary and painful and...yuck.

It IS all about finding a balance. I realize that on the one hand I'm saying "i want to be in charge" and on the other hand I'm upset by T not being in charge as much as I want her to be. I see that, just like I can see that I'm being triggered by the fear of change and the fear of abandonment. But seeing that stuff doesn't change how I feel about it. Does that even make sense??

[eskielover]

Makes lots of sense. There are different tools to do the same job & we get used to what we are comfortable with. When it doesn't seem to be working as well as possibly another tool, it's very difficult to allow our comfort zone down enough to even try another method or tool. I have realized through life that there are many different ways of accomplishing the same task.....which allows each person their own creative method of accomplishing something. When we see someone using a tool that seems to be doing more hurt more in the process of using it, it's always good to suggest another method that could work better. Getting through that comfort barrier is always difficult & always something we have to deal with when we have any changes come up in our life. Sometimes for awhile we can keep several of the tools working while we transition over to the use of another one just to keep us feeling better while we get used to using another method. That is probably why she is saying....yes, go ahead & tell your story while she still works in the other technique of handling triggers. Sometimes a combination ends up working best, but it's important to have your T be in charge of giving some direction while listening to your input. It's more like working as a team then.....which sounds like what she is trying to do while directing in another tool that she feels is necessary for you to develop.

The initial shock of the thought of change is hard (sort of a trauma in it's own way).....when the mind grasps the thoughts & ideas & starts to work with it, it starts to feel more comfortable also. Everytime we start a new way of doing or thinking about something, it's normal to feel uncomfortable & you will settle in better along with growing & learning more ways of caring for yourself.

[Rapunzel]

Maybe it would work to develop a balance between telling your story a little at a time, and managing triggers for the rest of the session. Newer research on trauma is that telling the story, especially telling it too soon, can be re-traumatizing and does more harm than good, and that a more gentle approach - visualization, teaching coping skills, EMDR, etc. can work better. It sounds like telling the story was traumatizing to you, but maybe slowing down the pace and including other treatments will be better. You always have the right and responsibility to talk to your T about how you feel and what you need.

[jexa]

agree with the others, not feeling articulate zoo but wanted to send hugs.

[skeksi]

She said it feels like we've been paddling upstream and instead we're going to get out of the water and walk for a while. It's coming to the same goal from another angle.

My T has made the same suggestion at several times in my therapy, Zoo. The first time I felt not only that I had somehow 'failed' at trauma therapy, but also that now I wouldn't get the chance to heal as I had expected to. It was like, "I thought we were taking the interstate to get there, but now we are taking the back roads, and I'm gong to miss all the stuff I planned to see!"

In reality, theat's not how it turned out for me. I have paused at points in my telling of my story. Those were the times when the therapy was so torturous that T told me he would not continue because it was like I was being abused all over again, and he couldn't in good conscience do that to me. So we'd work on some other aspect of the healing; coping with triggers, relaxing, facing fears, etc. In time, the past would rear up again and I'd be moved to tell more of my story, and we'd work on it again until it was too much. It came in fits and starts.

Not telling your story right now doesn't mean not telling your story ever.

[zooropa]

thank you so much for your replies, all of you.

skeski, your analogy of taking the back roads vs the interstate really describes how I'm feeling. Thank you for validating that for me.

Not telling your story right now doesn't mean not telling your story ever.

ok, this. This brought up a lot of feelings and helped me sort of narrow in on what I'm feeling. It's this: I don't have T forever. I don't have her indefinitely. I don't know how much longer I will have her, but the 2 year mark in my therapy is coming up and I suspect she is looking at that as a goal to be "done". The reason I fear that is that when I started with her, she said it's a 2 year program.

So. It triggered that abandonment. Because, she has told me a lot of times that she will see me through this, that she will go through this trauma work with me. But now that she's changing it, I wonder if her promise to see me through to the end still holds. If she's changing the game, do the same "rules" still apply?

Do you see? It all comes back to abandonment for me. Always. Everything. Abandonment.

[skeksi]

Oh, zoo, no wonder you feel like you need to go go go through all of this at rapid speed. Fear of ending T without finishing properly--that's scary stuff. You have grown so much more assertive; can you tell T about this fear next session? That sounds like a discussion you really need to have. You can't focus on the other stuff until you know that you have the time and space to do the work.

[zooropa]

this feels sort of passive-aggressive to me, but I know my T has group tonight, so I'm thinking about calling her while she's in group so I can leave a message without worrying about her actually picking up. I just would like to tell her how that triggered me and why, that I'm afraid she's backing out of her commitment to me that she would walk through this, all the way, with me.

I still don't even know. I feel like I should just put this away and talk about it next week, but it is bothering me so much and next week is, like, a whole week away. UGH.

[skeksi]

You know, who cares if it's passive-aggressive? It's a way for you to communicate your fears that feels tolerable to you.

(((((((((((zoo)))))))))

Two things:

First, I know you know this, but I told my story in fits and starts over YEARS. It would have been WAY too much for me to tell it at once, and like skeski's T, my T watches to make sure I'm safe and helps me know when it's time to stop for a while. And then the story rolls back around (like now, ugh) and we move back into it a little bit, and then out again. I think it was the only way I could do it. There was this big push at the very end of the CSA story where I told a lot at once, but for the most part, it's been slow, and as safe as possible given the circumstances.

I know that you are afraid of your therapy ending. That was a fear of mine too. I thought at first that he would kick me out after 30 sessions (when my insurance ran out) and then once that time passed and I asked him about it, he said he generally tells people a year (he didn't know ANY of my story at this point). Once I started leaking out bits and pieces of the story, I was so scared I would be referred. Finally, we talked about it enough (over and over and over and over again) that I came to really believe that I can go as long as I need to. At one point, he was trained in a new form of couples therapy and he LOVED it and I was scared he would only do couples after that, but he promised even if he did all couples, he would still see me (actually, he said I'm dissociative enough to qualify as a couple ) I so get the fear of therapy ending before we're ready.

SO. It feels like this is a REALLY important conversation for you to have with her. You need to KNOW...is this going to end soon? IS there a time limit? Was the two years a hard a fast rule or a guess? Please bring it up. The worst thing you'll find out is that yes, there's a time limit...and since you already think there is, then nothing will really change. But maybe you will find out that there ISN'T a time limit, and you'll be able to relax and heal at a pace that is right and safe for you.

[zooropa]

I know you're right, tree, I can feel that you're right.
I would probably tell anyone else here the same thing: talk to your T about it. But...wow. It is so scary. I am so afraid of the answer. I am going to really think about it this week and see if I can get myself to come around to the idea that knowing would be better than guessing. I'm just so afraid of the answer to the question of "when will you be done with me?"

I did call T a little while ago and left her a message. I apologized for calling, because I had just talked to her not too long before, and both during that conversation and during my session today she seemed distant and distracted and...not herself. I said I figured out why this is so triggering for me and that it comes back to abandonment, like always. That I feel like she's changed the game in the middle and if the game is different, do the same rules still apply? Will she still go with me through the trauma, all the way, until I'm done? That I trusted her when she said that but that I'm afraid it's not true anymore.

I don't know if she'll call me back. I didn't specifically ask her to, because the message felt like it was getting so long and I finally just hung up.

It's amazing to me how something so seemingly small can turn into a huge thing in my head and how completely spun out about it I can get in just a few hours. Always a drama in my head and in my heart, when what I really want is a peaceful life.

[googley]

(((((((Zoo)))))))

I don't have a lot of words right now. But I wanted to let you know that I am here to support you. I agree with Tree.

[zooropa]

uhmmm....so, T just called me back. She was like "zoo, look, quit worrying about this. Just stop. Stop thinking about it. Just forget about it. We'll finish the trauma work the way we started and that'll be it."

W.T.F? I was just kind of dumbfounded. I said, "as if that's going to work, just tell me to quit thinking about it, and that's supposed to work? I'll work on that, but..."

She said, well, I thought maybe there was an easier way, a gentler way, but obviously that's really upsetting to you, so forget about it. I said, "I'm not saying that's a bad idea, T. I just can't help what my emotional reaction to it is. It's hard for me to know what I'm feeling. It's hard for me to know why I'm feeling what I am. And I know that I'm saying I want to be in charge and I want you to be in charge at the same time. I know that."

So her response was, "then just let me be in charge. when you start thinking about it tell yourself T is in charge of that and let it go"

I just...I obviously did a really, really bad job of explaining myself to her. I thought I was pretty clear, but obviously not. I just got a healthy dose of Boot Camp T, and didn't need or appreciate it. The last time I saw this side of her was after my overdose, and even at the time I knew it was her way of using whatever tools she could to get me to see the seriousness of my actions. What did I do wrong this time? UGGGHHHHH.

I just want to add that I think what I got tonight was T the person, not T the T. She may have something going on in her life, or she's not feeling well, it could be any number of things. I just feel like the conversation I just had was not with my T coming from her usual place of wise mind centeredness. It sucks, for sure, but I'm going to try really really hard to not let this feel like the end of everything. If I didn't deserve her harsh coldness, well, I have certainly said things and acted toward her in ways she didn't deserve in the past, so I guess it's ok.

[googley]

Zoo-
I'm sorry your T was not able hear what you needed to know from her. I hope you talk to her more about this next session.

[jexa]

Oh no It definitely sounds like your T is not feeling centered and wise. You did say she seemed not like her normal self earlier. I think you're handling this very admirably, btw.

It seems to me that your T went from one extreme to another because of one thing you said in a session about it all going too fast and feeling like a violation. She probably heard that, pondered it all week, and came in to your session with a plan of attack. When what you were really saying is, "I need breaks from this sometimes." Maybe sometimes you DO want to go in and talk about managing triggers. And maybe sometimes you want to tell a little more of the story. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Maybe you can tell your T you want something in the middle of the two approaches? Use her own teachings against her -- use words like dialectic, "not black and white," etc. Haha.

[WePow]

((((((Zoo ))))))) Wow! What a night you had! I bet you are right that T has something else going on in her life. Or she may be beating herself up that she made the suggestion to you and it hurt more than helped. My T does that sometimes I think, even though he tries to not let me see that. I can see he will say something that triggers me and he will see my shift and then he tries to use his magic T eraser to make it all better but it makes a smudge instead and I can see in his eyes that he is frustrated. I have to work hard to realize he is not upset with me, but at the process sometimes. Then when he sees I am doing better and giving him a little room to not be a perfect T, he is able to relax and then he is my great T once again.

Not sure if any of this will hit home for you, but did want to share.

WOW. Your T seems to be having some struggles of her own right now!

Well, first, GOOD FOR YOU for being able to step back and realize that whatever is going on, it probably has more to do with HER than with YOU. That is huge progress, and even if you do end up spiraling about this, just the fact that you were able to go there at all is really big.

My impression (which could be 100% wrong of course) was that she is frustrated because you are not fitting into her neat little "DBT" box. It feels like she wants therapy to look like something out of a Linehan book, and the fact that it might not is frustrating to her.

I know my T has been frustrated at times...but when we've talked about it, it turns out it's not "me" he's frustrated with, it's the process. During times when I've been in a lot of pain and it's just dragged on and on and on, and there's nothing T can do to "fix" it, he's been frustrated...but he didn't give up, I didn't give up, and we made it through. Last summer when we were in the summer long rupture at the beginning of my CSA story, we both were incredibly frustrated - but I was admitting it, and he was in "T" mode. He finally left me a message saying how frustrated he was and how hard it was for both of us and how he wished he could just somehow make it better, and that was a big turning point. When I heard the truth of how he was feeling, I felt more understood because I was feeling the same way, and the rift between us got way smaller.

I wonder if your T is in a similar spot? She wants to help you feel better, but she's not sure how, and it's frustrating her. YOU are not frustrating her, but the process is. ???

You and she will get to the other side of this, but I know it sucks in the meantime.

[peaches100]

Zoo,

I'm sorry to hear your conversation with your t didn't go too well. I'm guessing that your t felt a bit frustrated because you'd told her that you didn't like the trauma work and it was too painful, but when she suggested a different, easier method, you were upset about doing that too. So now she is going back to plan 1 (the original trauma work).

What she may not be aware of is that part of you wants to do the trauma work, but part of you is frightened and is having a hard time dealing with the pain of it. Part of you would like to take a break from the trauma work, but part of you is afraid if you do that, you may not finish it before therapy ends. Added to this may be your fear of failure and/or fear of letting t down if you don't do the trauma work. So. . .you have mixed feelings. It's not that you're just complaining or trying to shoot down t's ideas for your therapy. But you have conflicting emotions. I think that's normal for this type of deep, intense, personal work. It's hard, it's scary, and yet, on some level, we know it's important also.

I'm guessing that your t wants to "nail down" a set "plan" for your therapy, to say "We're going to do A" or if that's too painful, then "We're going to do B." I hear you saying that in order to feel safe, you need your t to "know" the right way to go. And i think your t wants to also "know" and decide exactly where to go. However, in reality, it may be necessary to experiment with different approaches in order to get where you want to be (healed). It may not be so cut and dried.

Healing doesn't always follow a clear-cut path. Sometimes, therpapist and client need to create their own path together.

[rainbow8]

I think what Peaches said was eloquent and true. I'm sorry your conversation with T didn't go well. Sometimes phone calls are like that, so try to think positively that you can work this out. You've gotten lots of good advice here. When is your session? I'll be thinking of you.

[zooropa]

(((((you guys))))) Thank you so much for your replies. I love this place.

I feel ok about this today. I had a dream last night that I met someone who is like a hero of mine. But in my dream he was a total ****. But I was ok with that, in my dream. I knew it was HIM and not ME. I think it's possible that I'm starting to feel ok in myself and not need constant outside reassurance. Starting. I think.

Part of me is entertaining the idea of not going to T anymore, and kind of enjoying exploring that. Most of me knows that's not going to happen and I'll be there next week for my session, like always.

My T isn't perfect and it really seems to me like she made a couple of mis-steps yesterday. You guys have helped confirm that for me, that it's not me, it's her. And I don't expect her to be perfect. I am just trying to chalk it up to Ts annoying insistence on being human and thus fallible, and move on.

It does kind of freak me out that she was so quick to say "fine, nevermind, we'll go back to the old way of doing it" but that seems like just another sign that she's not at the top of her game right now.

Jexa, I will absolutely use the DBT parlance when I talk to her again. It doesn't have to be all one way or another. It can be both. There's the dialectic.

Peaches, rainbow, tree, wepow, googley, your words helped me so much. Thank you. Thank you.