It's over- t broke all of my trust

Wow, Kacey. I am so proud of you and the courage and bravery shown today in keeping your appointment!

You wrote, " What needs to happen if I want to continue therapy...."which implies if you don't agree (and comply) with this T's list, you won't be able to continue therapy with him. It sounds too much like an ultimatum. Did he get your input, at all?

I worry about you and the atmosphere being created with T's new rules. Will it create safety for you or will it just make you a more "compliant" client in T's eyes?

How do YOU feel about his list?

Thinking of you!!

If i were you, i would not go back to this horrible t. I would start to look for a new one. The rules to me are very controling. He lacks in empathy big time. I have never done DBT and it does give me bad taste. I am so sorry you are hurting so much (((((((Hugs)))))

Kacey, i was so shocked by your T that i forgot to tell you i'm so sorry to here about the recent death in your family i think. I think awhile ago there was a sui* and then cuisin or neice ?? Found alcoholic mom had ODed. Dang my brain isnt working as well as id like. Cant spell cousin or remember stuff. But my mushed up brain wants to send out hugs. There is a lot of stuff like that in my family and news like that devestates me and I DONT KNOW WHY IT ALWAYS HAPPENS WHEN IM ALREADY IN CRISIS!! hugs to you. Make
sure to eat and just take it one half hour at a time if ypu need to.

Just had time to read this thread.
I am just so, so very sorry for all of this stuff it makes my heart hurt for you.

Kacey, been thinking of you all day. Let us know how you are doing.

Hi Guys,
Well I made it through another day. I actually crawled through it. It was tough. I had horrible insomnia worse than normal last night. I usually get in one sleep cycle a night which is 4 hours but last night I only slept for about 1.5 hours and that is with combo sleeping pills. So I went to work today and was just having a go at trying to regulate my body. I have developed the lovely emotional hives. I haven't even called "M" whos mom died. I just can not do it. I don't have anything, I mean anything to give. I am going to plan to call her tomorrow.

About t. I forgot to mention the other rule so to speak. I have to agree to a term of one year and during that year I would have to be in weekly dbt and weekly t sessions. If I were to miss dbt 4 consecutive times I would be out of therapy, usually that is until the next module starts (every nine weeks or so). That is the minimum time you have to be out but the individual t makes an agreement per client. So my t said that I would be out for the agreed upon one year. That would mean no more t sessions either. The reciprocal of that is skipping individual t sessions with out good reason (like illness) not just feeling like not going would also be an agreement breaker as well and then I could not be in the skills training classes for period of agreed upon 1 year. Oh, I forgot to add that does not mean you can get right back in. It is after that year mark that you can figure out the terms that ultimately t decides that would let you back in. This is all straight forward DBT Marsha Linehan stuff! (google behavoraltech)

Now in defense of DBT, I would certainly not be alive today if I had not done it. DBT was orginally created for people who have repeated su attempts and parasuicidal behavior. I know other people on here like Zoo () that would not be alive as well. She has said that before so I know I can say it. Yes, it is strict but I am assuming there is a reason for that. I just don't know it.

So I had another huge panic attack at work and locked myself in the bathroom and called t. I know.......... but I just am so lost and can not even get my body under control. I was basically calling to tell t that I needed to go to the hospital which is way outrageous for me. I have never went there willingly. I didn't actually get that part out I don't think. T said, "KC, we have a committment to eachother and we have had a committment for almost four years. Do you still want to do therapy with me?" All I could do was say yes at that moment because I needed help. If I wasn't his client anymore I am sure he wouldn't treat me, he would have just given me the crisis line number or something.

Then I tried talking to him but he said, "Listen KC, I am having a hard time understanding you." I was crying and talking but I guess not making sense. So he said, "What we need to do is bring your body back down before anything. So go to the sink and splash cold water on your face, neck, and chest. Take your vistaril and loratidin. Go get some ice from the machine and put it on your neck and squeeze ice in your hands. I am going to a meeting until 10:30 then I will be back in my office so if you need to call again I will be here. Can you do all of that?"

I did and I scraped my way through most of the day at work but then I went home ill for the last hour. I just could not do it one more minute. I had to get back under my weighted blanket and try to sleep a little. I had to follow my breathing to music and focus on keeping control. I am up from my nap, I slept about 45 minutes. I did not call t anymore today after that one call in the morning. I still do not even know what I think about any of this. I guess I am in no condition to make a choice right now. I did call another t in the area who is involved in another dbt program to do some session specific work on me sorting out my relationship with t. Another thing that was talked about with all this agreement stuff that I posted about earlier. I explained it to the reception gal and she put me on hold. When she came back she told me that she had to talk with her supervisor first and they would call me back tomorrow. I am proud of myself for making that call.

sorry about that, I was looking for the let's complain about dbt thread, I guess it got deleted! this is what I meant by "funding" - you guys don't believe me when I say i'm inarticulate! But wow - this is so powerful, kacey. you thought your T was in charge, but no. it's the group, it's getting the accreditation.

I think they need to do some controlled studies on how this affects people and the therapeutic process, and / or the DBT process, because it has obviously become part of the dbt process.

Kacey -it was good you made that call.

It's ridiculous for a T to say this. If the patient is dependent, that's something she brings to therapy.

If it looks like she is becoming more dependent, then what is really happening is that she is beginning to trust her T and allowing that dependence to show.

T might just as well say, "You trust me too much."

Grrr!

SPECULATION:

Maybe the autoritarian nature of DBT is comforting when you're operating in zombie mode.

But you're not a zombie any more.

This may be way off in left field and I apologize if it is...but I just had a thought. Is finding a different therapist a possibility? Someone who would give you more of what you need? It just strikes me that you need something different, more...I dont know exactly...more warmth? Love? Attachment? just SOMETHING...from a T, and this T doesn't have it to give. Would it help, do you think, to find someone else?
BTW, I LOOOOOVE my weighted blanket. It helps calm me down when I am upset.

UPDATE:

I saw t today for the first time since the big bomb he threw at me. It has been two weeks which for me is a long time. I have an appt with another therapist on Thursday which he does know about.

I know you are all screaming at me right now..........KKKKKCCCCC!!!!! Aghh why did you go back to see this douche canoe and jerkasoras-rex?!?

Well I went back because I am so attached to him. I have worked with him for almost four years and it is so hard to just walk away. I am lost and I am miserable.

What happened? Well I filled out my two weeks of diary cards like I was supposed to and then wrote down some other things that needed to be talked about. I had many questions like, why am I being punished? You never gave me any warning etc...

And he was like, "KC in dbt therapy clients can not fail. You did nothing wrong. I take full responsibility, I have failed you. My therapy has failed you." blah blah blah blah. He said so many things it is hard to process it all out here but I am going to try to at least get some of it out. This may be choppy and it will not be complete. He said in the beginning he mislead me by saying that this is a relationship that can last forever and that we would always be connected in some way until we die. He said that yes we are here til were not here and we don't know when that will be. OMG I AM SO SICK OF HEARING THERAPY ******** MUMBO JUMBO! Isn't that a complete cluster f of a line?

He said that he isn't sure that we would make it through this and he takes full responsibility if that happens but he wants to do better at being my therapist and work with me to build a life worth living with other support besides him. He said he was still going to support me but he wanted me to have other meaningful relationships in my life and by being so connected to him it is hindering me from doing that.

I told him that I was not going to videotape and that he had many other clients to chose from to do his consultation with the dbt coach. Since he told me it was all about him and his behaviors and interactions that were being critiqued. He said that he wanted it to be me because there is only one me and I am the relationship that he needs try harder at. I said that doesn't make sense, don't you want to try your best with all of your clients? He said that he feels he does do his best with his other clients and that he feels he is not doing his best with me. OUCH.

Finally I had enough and I was like, look I want to move on here, why don't we talk about the diary card? He asked how that was going to work because it was all related to what we had talked about and that I was really angry and that trying to do a chain analysis would go over like an effin lead balloon. I said well actually out of my two choices that sounds like the better one so I will be very willing to dive into a chain analysis.

I was like look.........I did my part, now you do yours.

Oh there is more but it is so hard to even write it out logically so I will take a break for now.

It wasn't pretty.

I see my new t on thursday.

Any feedback would be great.

That sounds super creepy. I would stay away from this dude.

Kacey2... wow it was very brave of you to go back... I think you did a good thing to go back..not because it is a right or wrong thing to do but because you will know that you tried everything you could... It sounds very hard and sad...

I hope you will give your new T a chance and I'm sure after this experience you will have lots of good questions to ask of the new T.

Ouch? HE better say ouch, that liar liar pants on fire. He sounds inane. They want you on tape because YOU are awesome, and that makes them and the process look good. They should be paying you. I know it sounds like i'm ranting, but seriously, i'm not.

Here are some responses. Sorry if they sound contradictory!

* Your T admitted failure and accepted responsibility for that. That's a rare and precious thing.

* What I'm hearing is that you have already decided to leave.

* Seeing another T will provide a contrast that will help clarify what you loved and hated about the previous T.

* Fighting with a T and then talking about that fight with the same T has potential advantages over talking about that fight with another T.

Oh my gosh, Hankster.... I adore you! You make me LOL. Thanks a billion. Love it. seriously.

Thank you Readytostop. It was hard. I was shaking so bad. I was pulling out gobbs of hair cause I have trich. I have hives all over my chest as well. I am just so confused and scared. I don't even know another way. I hope this new t will just talk to me on thursday and not do an intake cause I so badly need to talk to her about this. I will keep you all posted. My current t thinks expects that I will be in dbt group this thursday but we will have to see how my apt goes first with new t. I can not be in dbt skills with a t from another agency as my primary t. That's the rules.

Well actually it was me who was freaking out so badly about losing him and having the relationship end that is why he told me that. I could not even settle down to do therapy with the thought of losing him in my mind. Soooo he said it and it felt safe for me to proceed knowing that he wasn't going to leave me. I wanted to be connected in some way forever because I truly do care about him and love him deeply. Not in a weird romantic way just in a you are a huge part of my life sort of way. So I guess it was me the creep, not him.

Oh my, I finally learned to multiquote. Super!

Yes CantExplain I agree with what you have pointed out. I know that he says he failed but it only makes me think if I would have responded differently to therapy, it wouldn't be this way.

When this all came about two weeks ago I told t that I wanted to meet with another t for a few sessions to sort out my relationship with current t and he agreed to it. It is only a temporary thing. I guess I will have to make a choice sometime in the near future. This new t agreed to see me but said that I could not see her and current t in the same week. I thought I would go everyother week until I figure it out.

I do agree that it will clarify things and give me something to compare. I actually did do one other consultation with another t a couple of years ago and it made me just want to run back to my t's office because he was so much better. I have never thought about finding another t until all of this came about.

My t and I have had so many fights/repairs. I just don't know. I can still remember the time he told me he would be relieved if I cancelled all of my appointments and I didn't ever come back. That will stay with me for life. He meant that he did not want to put me through something I didn't want to do. To force me to do therapy but I think it was a real bad way of saying that. Obviously, something special is there because who would continue with all of this bad stuff if there wasn't something promising underneath?

at this point does the bad outweigh the good? are you really,truly benefitting or is it just so familiar that you stay in it because change would be too painful? we ask all this for a reason-our ex-counselor of over 7 years was a LOT like yours(wont go into it now) and eventually she ended up dropping us out of nowhere. but after almost 7 months of being away from her we are starting to see that we stayed for many of the reasons we asked you-she knew us,it was familiar even though she was far more abusive than helpful,change terrified us(still does).although you are very wise in taking the initiative in seeking another counselors help,which we never thought to do. we arent saying leaving would be easy nor are we even suggesting it but its just something we wanted to share with you♥

His taking responsibility doesn't make it hurt less. A sudden and significant shift in the relationship after 4 years is a shock and confusing. It's sad, to me, that your T couldn't see a gentler way to shift the relationship to something he felt would be more therapeutic.

I wouldn't want to do the videotaping either, although I'm enjoying some fantasies about how it could be satisfying to try to make him look bad in it (hurt/immature me speaking).

I do understand the 'connected until we die' comment, although if his therapy doesn't encourage deep and lasting connection, I don't know why he would say it to his clients. We do stay connected, in our hearts, with those we've had relationships with, even when separated geographically or otherwise. Memories are a way of being connected.

Yeah, pretty much of a cluster f. of a statement right there.

Yeah, yeah, it was his fault. Do you think you're relationship with him *is* hindering your ability to having other relationships? I mean (see below) my wonky meter is off the scale here, but could this be true?

This may be therapy mumbo jumbo, or it may be an honest answer, but I just do not get this at all. If you don't want to be videotaped, then I think you have the right not to be. It's not your fault, or responsibility that he "screwed up".

Look, I was a big advocate of you going back and trying to slog it out with this guy. I think if it were just the two of you then you could. What really really worries me here is that there is clearly, a second, third, and perhaps even a fouth party involved here who is actually pulling the strings.

Okay, if you (and I'm not saying that you are) really too entrenched in this relationship to seek out other ones, then yes that could be a problem, but it's just the damn accreditation thing.

I think all therapies should be allowed to run their natural course with the outcome of each on their own timeline. It's like an artificial constrant is put on what is happening between the two of you.

I don't know kacey, but this just isn't sitting right with me. You are one smart cookie to seek the advice of another therapist and perhaps continue treatment with them.

As you said, you are not just some vehicle through which this group gets their accreditation, you are kacey - a human being.

I am so sorry that you got caught up in the middle of this. As much as possible I hurt for you.

Please do take good care of yourself in all this. I'm sending peace your way.

When my T and I had a pretty severe rupture, he offered to bring in another therapist to sit in with us to help us work through our rupture. We were able to work it out on our own, but I was glad that he was willing to do that in order to help us get to where we needed to be.

I'd imagine that having this 2nd therapist will be helpful to you, to help sort out your feelings, with someone who is more objective. And I totally understand that underlying drive to want to stay with your T, the one you've developed a strong attachment to. Hopefully, by having this 2nd therapist involved, perhaps this T can help you determine whether or not it's a healthy attachment, etc.

I'm at work. So trying to type this out on my new iPhone. Im not very good at this yet. I laughed and cried about all of your responses already this morning. Thank u so much! I will respond in detail tonight and will post about my other t session tomorrow.