So afraid T is going to give up on me

I don't get the part about the "2x4".

2x4 therapy means that if she puts things gently, I don't get it, so she has to be very blunt and knock me over the head with it. It was over a year ago when she brought that up the first time, and I told her to go ahead if that's what it takes. Later on, I realized that it did hurt to be treated that way, and that I was probably even using her to feel hurt when I encouraged it. I guess we're back to that point though.

I think that I have been very negative with her, and maybe getting more so, and I can understand her being so frustrated with me. Maybe she does have to talk to me this way in order to get me to change. I wish that we could turn it around and make it more positive. My previous T was always trying to be positive and tell me that I was good, and I just brushed that off though.

As much as I appreciate all of your support, I think more of this is really my doing than I've shown you. I try to show my good side in public, but maybe all I've been showing her is the bad.

Rap

Rap,

Be careful . . . don't beat yourself up because of her "shock therapy" technique or whatever she wants to call it. If what she says to you, as a therapist, makes you feel bad about yourself - that's not right.

Thank you for explaining "2x4" and it's a bad idea. There are other ways of getting the point across. Would you do that to your kids when they don't understand something? It doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong - it's a joint effort to heal. They are supposed to be facilitators - not bashers.

Hugs,
Songbird

Wendy, I am sensitive as I had a t mistreat me badly for too long until I broke free. It was abuse and malpractice. I see you here trying to give us a picture of what no one but you can see and feel. I would be reporting her to licensing. So, telling you that you mistreat and destroy people is very helpful isn't it? One of the basic things I know about you is when people try to get close to you, you throw daggers to keep them away and keep yourself safe. This comes from a fear place and it takes repeated, over and over and over testing and work with a T to make sure they are safe and you can enter into that safe relationship where the real moving ahead can happen. I have told you repeatedly that I could never even speak or stay in the same room with my T for a very long time. I had no words. You are a kind and loving soul who has to slow down and define your values and goals.

If I had to set goals for my stranger friend I would start with self care. You must practice self care and kindness .5 hours daily.
2. You must spend .5 hours daily with each child and sincerely tell each one something positive they said or did each day.
3. You must look in the mirror and say that I want to believe I am.....and work on believing that good thing about yourself. Counter the negatives with a success you have ready to think about.
4. Life ain't no race. Slow down before you wake up like me with grey hair, pain and too many years gone by.

Take care Wendy. I believe in you.

RAP, I agree that you need things said to you very clearly, but not sarcastically nor condescendingly. The T did not keep herself distanced like a good psychologist knows how to do. Her becoming "Frustrated" is not your fault, but hers. She took things too personally, again making it all about her.

What should it matter that you are where you are on your path? Isn't a therapist's job to meet you where you are, and even SIT DOWN with you until you are ready to move on? A good psychologist would know how to do that, and be comfortable doing so. The journey isn't supposed to be about the T and where they WANT to put you, or get you to go. Learning how to make the journey is a big part of it, too.

She needs her own counsel. If she had been honest with her own counselor, she would be performing self-care. YOUR job is not to take care of the T.

(((RAP))))

Sky -

What a great post!

EJ

I just read this through and it made me cry..I don't understand any therapist verbally knocking their client down to motivate them to change..please don't blame yourself..yes, you have the knowledge, and the gift to counsel others, but that doesn't mean you have arrived yourself at the place where you do it all in your own life..you deserve to be supported, encouraged, heard, and understood..not blamed for someone elses' personal frustration..thinking of you..

((((((((((( Rap ))))))))))))

I agree with Climbingkit. Totally!

Please don't let anyone treat you that way! You are special and dear.

Hugs,

Jan

Thanks everyone. I don't know if I could get through this without your support. I sent her another reply, and I really appreciate the feedback on it that Sky and GG and Fuzzy have given me. Now if I get attacked again I'll know that I did what I could and it must be her. But I think that I have given you a skewed picture of what is going on, and more of this does fall on me than what I've shown you. I don't think I would want me for a client.

I'll let you know what happens. Keep it coming, okay?

((((((((love and hugs))))))))))
Rap

Rap, I don't think I woudl want ME as a client either. I think all of us have that feeling. that doesn't mean it is right for her to treat you in the way you have described here.

Glad I was able to help a bit, you know I understand from my own "patterns" when triggered and hurt .... and if she attacks you again after the well thought out and expressive "missive" you just sent her I really think you should consider reporting her
((((((((((( Rap ))))))))))))

(((((((((rap)))))))))))

of course, you're reporting from your point and view and hurt. That's a given.

However, you couldn't do that with the email. I think anyone reading that and putting themselves in the position of receiver would feel alot of things.

No matter what you've said, or not said, she's being clearly inappropriate, I feel.

KD

Okay, she wrote back. And as much as I had honestly believed that I was being honest in my reply to her, the blinders are coming off and I am seeing the stuff she has been trying to get me to see. She's right, and it did take 2x4 therapy to get me to catch on because I was so determined not to see what I do that hurts people. I don't want to hurt people, but when she says that I use people up and mistreat them and destroy them, she's right. I do that. I hate it, but that's the pattern. I don't blame her for being frustrated with me. I'm not sure if there is any hope for me, or if I even deserve any help.

On these forums I am able to present myself as the person I wish that I was, and that's all that I allow you to see. I honestly do wish that I were that person, but I'm not her. It's all a big fat lie. I'm tempted to take this thread down because I have done T a grave disservice in portraying her this way and only giving you half the story. But the damage is done and I need to try to correct it. I'm not sure if you will believe me. I don't know why you should believe anything that I say. But as frustrated as she was, I was the problem all along.

Thanks for the support you all gave to me. I love you for it. But I don't deserve it.

I still don't know if she is going to be willing to give me another chance. I don't deserve one. She was talking about termination and I guess I have three weeks left only because we are participating in a research project on online therapy, and we don't want to mess up someone's data by dropping out early.

Rap

p.s. I'm not looking for people to tell me that she shouldn't make me feel this way. This is real. I'm a fake.

There is always hope that we can change..honestly, your T's half of the story isn't important, it is your half that matters..the person you portray here is a part of who you are, who you want to be..I moderated a forum once and had the knowledge and words to give to others, yet could not use them for myself..I felt like a fake because I had so many issues of my own..kinda like I was representing myself falsely..but that strong stable person was/is a part of me, a side of myself, and I believe that is the same of you...my concern is about you..there is no judgement with me for your T..she seems very harsh with her words but I do not negate her ability to counsel you..my prayer is that this whole thing will work out the way that you want it to..that the desire of your heart will be fulfilled, and if it is for therapy to continue with your T that it will come to pass..you always deserve support and care...

Thanks.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:
I'm not sure if there is any hope for me, or if I even deserve any help.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Everyone is deserving of help. Everyone. You are deserving of help and love just as you are, right now. And you always will be.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
On these forums I am able to present myself as the person I wish that I was, and that's all that I allow you to see. I honestly do wish that I were that person, but I'm not her. It's all a big fat lie.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I do think that in this type of format we're able to sort of start with a "clean slate", and this can mean that we present ourselves differently in this medium than we might in real life around people who see us more often. But I don't really think that makes how you present here a "lie". We all have different sides to us, and it's actually an adaptive human behavior to be able to be flexible with our behavior and interpersonal style depending on the situation. Plus, in a forum like this, where this is some safety from more anonymity, we have the opportunity to "try on" different behaviors, attitudes, ways of interacting, etc. So in short, I don't feel that the way you are here is a lie even if it's only one part of you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'm tempted to take this thread down because I have done T a grave disservice in portraying her this way and only giving you half the story. But the damage is done and I need to try to correct it. I'm not sure if you will believe me. I don't know why you should believe anything that I say. But as frustrated as she was, I was the problem all along.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, even though I focused on the difficulties you presented, I was aware that there certainly must be positive things about your T or you wouldn't be working with her. It's okay to use this site to get feedback and support on the things that are upsetting or confusing. But as each of us are not one-dimensional, neither is any situation. And given that, I'm sad to hear that you feel you were the problem. It sounds so one-sided. It takes two to tango, you know. It is helpful to look at our own behavior and contributions to a problem, but I believe it's seldom entirely one person's responsibility.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I still don't know if she is going to be willing to give me another chance. I don't deserve one. She was talking about termination and I guess I have three weeks left only because we are participating in a research project on online therapy, and we don't want to mess up someone's data by dropping out early.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

That complicates the issue, too with added pressure.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
p.s. I'm not looking for people to tell me that she shouldn't make me feel this way. This is real. I'm a fake.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Well, I'm not going to say that, because you feel what you feel, and that's real.

And just another thought, and then I'll be quiet. Feeling like a fake or fraud is not uncommon in women, and it often comes out at a time when one is working towards a career goal. And therapy also tends to shake up one's sense of self at times.

And most important, I'm sorry you're hurting.

(((((Rap)))))

gg

I'm sorry that you feel you are a fake. My T has always held firm to the fact that, when I feel a fake -as you do when here, being good and supportive- is when I am real and when I feel real -as you do IRL mistreating ppl - that is when you are fake.

You really are a good person, Rap. No one who is consistently supportive to others, ala PC, is a mean person. Nope. You're not convincing me. This IS the real you, I don't care what a misbehaving therapist has convinced you of...if what you wrote that she wrote is correct... she has a problem with self-care..her own problem NOT YOUR FAULT for goodness sake! If you changed what you said she wrote, that's another disorder issue.

Having any disorder does not make you a bad person, imo. Even with the recent events here, those people have real disorders, ones that don't match with what PC is about. One gets to try again, one doesn't.

You, also, get to try again, because you have a disorder. Unfortunately, it appears your T is also on the brink, imo, and should have withdrawn from active therapy for a while. I don't know if you are saying you feel it is all "you" is what she has convinced you of in truth, or it is your interpretation of what you think your T has told you. You know my position on that one.

But the clean slate is nice.

I love you, Rap. You've always been so good to me, and given me lots to think about in your kind replies to my posts. I know exactly how you are feeling, and I too have had T's get upset with me -- and sometimes they ARE right, we need to see things we don't seem able to -- but the way she did it to you was horrible.

I don't think you're a fake. I think you are a good person who is currently overwhelmed by life. Your T should see that. All of us "disordered" people can!



Love, Candy

Wendy, I see you as your best self. I do not like what she has said to you and I think blaming yourself is another old pattern. You are your best you, holding my story when I couldn't, that is you. Believe that you deserve our love and respect.

It's so easy to see the bad in ourselves, and so hard to see the good. I hope you can take onboard some of the things others are saying here about you, to balance out the hurt of other things you have heard and say about yourself.

I have never seen you being mean or abusive to anyone, on here or in private.

Not sure what else I can add without more thought but I am stunned by some of the things your T has said

(((((((((( Rap )))))))))))

(((((((((((Kit, GG, Sky, Candy, WW, Caroline, Fuzzy))))))))))))

Thank you all for continuing to believe in me. Your words all mean so much. I feel entirely undeserving of anything, but I still love you for caring about me anyway.

Last night I finally saw the pattern. I feel helpless to provide for my own needs, so I act helpless and people give and give and I take and take and take until they are used up, and then I lash out when they are tired of it and don't want to give me any more. I don't do this intentionally, and I want to give back. Maybe that's what I am trying to do here on PC. I know it is. It's not that I don't give what I can IRL either. I try. But it's deceptive because I take more than I give, and I wear people out hurt them. I don't lie intentionally or consciously stragegize to make myself look better than I am. I'm not misrepresenting what people say intentionally, or changing their words, but I have made public too much of what wasn't mine to make public, and I have given a misleading impression of someone I do respect and care about. And I do it over and over, without knowing that I do that because it's not intentional. I just don't think. I don't think that I have any real power or impact, so it doesn't matter what I say or do. But it does. It's not out of meanness though.

Rap

Rap, what you describe is something I am accused of constantly, by my family, anyway. Right now, technically, I am homeless. If it weren't for my sister taking me in, I would be in a shelter. I have no job and about $80 cash to my name, and that's it.

BUT ----- even when I was working, I didn't make that much money, and my friends were always helping me out somehow. One got me on her church's food pantry list, and would bring me over bags of food every week. Others helped pay for my meds, because even when I had insurance, I often couldn't afford the copays. In big ways and little, my friends were always bailing me out.

In some ways, because they were willing to do it, I came to expect it. Most of my friends are willing to speak up and say they are feeling used or whatever, IF they are, but when *I* would be the one to bring it up, they would wave it away and say "no problem," because, for them, it truly wasn't. They could afford to do what they did, and they did it because they loved me and wanted to help.

I know there is no way ever to repay them. My best hope is that someday I will be in a position to "pay it forward" and help out somebody else, in their honor.

I think you feel so bad because you want to be able to help, but you're barely in a position right now to help yourself. I'm so freaked out about getting a job here, because I have a huge medical appointment on the 11th and my sister is going to get stuck with the bill if the state medical assistance doesn't come through for me. My family has given me a ton since I've been sick, but they ARE tired of it, and tell me so repeatedly (one more reason friends are way better than family, LOL!). One of them is going to have to make my car payment this month, again......I thank them constantly and tell them how much I appreciate it, and I feel guilty as all get-out that I can't do anything to help MYSELF.

But, that's where I am right now, and maybe you too. It's so hard to relax and take what's being offered because of pride, in my case, not sure about you. For over 20 years I have prided myself on being independent and able to take care of myself, and since Dec. I have had to rely on people 1,000%, and I hate it. But if that is what you have to do right now, then that is what you have to do.

Maybe we can help each other feel less guilty about it.



Love, Candy

I just noticed that I'm surrounded by bears. I'm glad you're friendly bears and are on my side.

Candy, I really do relate to what you're saying. But there is a difference too. I've always identified with the have-nots, and have lived most of my life maybe just barely above poverty level. I can't imagine money ever not being tight. But now we should have enough. We have an adequate house, and my husband has a good job (he's the lowest-paid administrator in the state and they will never give him a raise because the government is cheap and can get away with it, but that's better than a lot of people have it), and I have two jobs (that add up to full time and don't pay enough to cover my tuition but that's what student loans are for, right?). I shouldn't have that much to ask for. We have built up student loans and some credit card debt, and hospital bills, and can't afford a second car after losing two of them last fall, but I shouldn't be living crisis to crisis. I want too much, and haven't been willing to give up what I want. The things I'm depending on people to help with aren't necessities.

Candy, you are in a position where it is only right for people to step in and help. I'm really not though. I feel second-class and I act second-class and I try to pretend to be someone I'm not. You will pay it forward when you get the chance to. I try to do that. I've even given away a car because someone needed it more than I did at the time, but someone had given me the car in the first place, and I hadn't even taken good care of it. But I need to stop being helpless and expecting people to do things for me that I should either let go of or figure out a way to do for myself. I have never been independent in my whole life. There is something wrong with this picture. Financial stuff is just one aspect too.

Rap