Awful email response from T

Yes, my T too left for the Christmas break in the middle of our chaos and it was horrible because it's not really possible to clear up something so big in one session. She's gone again now and things aren't fully resolved, so I'm hanging on again.

She did accept that she made big mistakes and she is sorry that she's caused so much pain. She thinks our relationship is better (deeper) because of the mistakes. I think I still feel like I'm walking on eggshells and waiting for the next disaster to strike.

But yes, in the past we have worked through many mistakes. Though many of them were me over reading things, misinterpreting things, or having a huge reaction to her forgetting something smaller. This last series of mistakes were far more serious than that.

I don't think a therapist being honest about feeling the need to keep trying is about them giving up though. Some therapists do approach things in that way by sharing their experience. My therapist spoke about learning to be a T and being uncomfortable with silences and learning that it was actually okay to say those things out, like "I'm struggling to think of what to say to you right now". I don't see those sorts of things as incompetence, just because they share their experience. That comment may be because someone is really difficult to engage with and maybe it's also something they struggle with in the rest of their life.

Those sorts of things help me, although at first they made me uncomfortable. If my therapist says she feels stuck and doesn't know how to help me, then I realise clearly why things have felt so difficult between us. She's struggling to find a way forwards too (it's not like it's all me misperceiving things). I also appreciate the honesty and from there I can find out why she's feeling stuck. What she's not getting from me that she needs in order to help me move forwards. It gives me a chance to talk about my side of things and what I need.

It's tough to be disappointed in therapy. I find the return email to be a pretty good one, but yeah, T might have left out the part of how T is struggling to find the right treatment path for you ("getting it right") But all Ts go through this process with each patient. No two are alike and each modality available has to be tweaked for each patient, once the T find what does "work" for the patient/client.

This is why I don't like emailing with a therapist. There's just too much read into them--and often not the right thing! This email is all about the T's trying to help you, and says nothing negative about YOU! But because T isn't face to face with you to realize you took it as a fault of yours, you didn't get the immediate support you needed, and had a meltdown.

Keep working with the T is what I say, for now at least. Some Ts don't care how you feel (how sad) and insist you find the path to their healing method, rather than come find you where you are and bring you along the healing path. This T is out there, holding your hand and walking with you to find the path that works for you back to healing.

But as we kept talking about it, I came to see that I had to make a conscious decision to make a space for the unknown. I had to trust that my T would be able to contain any feeling that might result from our interaction. And that I wasn't there to be acted upon--that the process would only work if I were willing to be a participant in creating it.

I think what I'm saying dove-tails a bit with what Anne said. My rigidity from fear was ham stringing my T: he was walking on eggshells, not out of incompetence, but out of a desire to do no harm. And because it was the early days of approaching the hardest issues, he wasn't sure that I was stable enough to do the work outpatient. It was a lot of pressure on the relationship, and it kept us at a standstill.

I had to let myself extend my trust of him to also trust that the feelings I was so afraid of would not destroy me if unleashed--that he would be able to contain them, and so protect me. It wasn't logical, but I truly believed that they could consume me.

Extending this trust allowed him some space to work. The pressure on him eased, and the standstill shifted.

It meant that a lot of pain came out, and I relied on him to pace the work in such a way as to keep me stable--I couldn't do that for myself. I guess we slowly built my tolerance, and that in turn, built our mutual confidence in each other and in the process.

Stopdog you are made of sterner stuff than me - I couldn't bear not to try and find some resolution, the thought of not making that appointment makes my hair stand on end even more than the thought of T quitting on me . But I can see what you mean and how it could be a good tactic. Thanks

NL you put a good spin on things I must say, you have a very positive way of looking at what to me are excruciatingly painful and exceptionally frustrating situations - perhaps if I read your posts often enough your positive perspective will start to permeate my own brain. Thank you again

JD thank you for your comments - and also for suggesting another positive perspective on my T's comments and attitude. I do also agree with you about the whole emailing thing with Ts, it's not something I would ever have chosen to do, but T was pretty insistent that if I came away from a session feeling bad about it, to let her know via email so she can be prepared to discuss it next session. I am beginning to think that NO out of session contact is after all the best policy. Mind you, in my less overwhelmed moments today I was thinking that this is all good stuff to come out, triggers and enactments and what have you that I might not normally have seen had the whole email exchange not triggered it. Grist to the mill as they say . Thank you

Feral thank you so much for coming back and explaining your comments. Yes that makes sense, and I'm sure I can apply it to my situation with T - there's just this small issue of zero confidence and trust in T at the moment. I think I need to see her to talk this over because right now she's Lucifer's right hand man in my head .

That whole thing with taking the risk with expressing/feeling the feelings in session - that's what a lot of my issues with T are about - my prime surface feeling that is in constant awareness is anger (and infinite variations thereof) and I've had a very hard time in my therapy career trying to find Ts who are able to accept anger directed at them. It's not just my fear of me being overwhelmed by my feelings, it's that they are incredibly threatening from the point of view of being retaliated against by others... maybe that's what this is all about now, I just wish that T realized this and didn't take it all so personally... thank you to you too

Just a quick update before I disappear for the evening - I've sat on my hands all day, haven't even looked again at my angry reply back to T. It's helped hugely to have you guys to talk to about this, just getting others' views on it has helped me stand back and push myself to see it differently, which has let me not act immediately on my feelings. Thank you everyone for that.

On the other hand - I still feel just as angry and betrayed and alienated and threatened as I did last night and I think I'm just glossing over those feelings by distracting myself here (to a point). Part of me thinks that it would A Good Idea to send my ****** email anyway, from the point of view of, if she can handle it and responds well to it (in session) then the therapy is potentially on its way to being a success. If however she responds in a negating and subtlely critical or blaming way to it, as far as I'm concerned that's the therapy finished.

Is it better to know that now and not get any further tangled up with this T, or is it better for me to play goodie goodie and be all reasonable about discussing this with her on Thursday so as to allay her doubts about helping me... If I do nothing for long enough, Thursday will be here soon enough anyway. I just find it increases the odds against getting a good response to ambush a T with unanticipated anger - if she's forewarned she can compose herself and not be taken unawares and end up revealing spontaneous feelings that could blow the whole thing out of the water anyway .

I feel stuck and trapped and cornered and very unhappy

Kind of an all or nothing approach, isn't it? Understandable. But -- this T must be totally incompetent/an enemy, or completely wonderful. Do you have to decide this immediately? Can you go to the session with the question in your mind of how competent she is, and continue to see if you can get more actual information about that?

It seems to me that your reaction to your T's email is about much more than just the words in her email. From what you've said about her, it comes across that you have some festering discontent about the kind of therapy you receive from her.

A therapist who does so much talking and then talking about techniques that she never actually uses is a kind of therapist *I* would not be able to work with. I can listen to 'lectures' all day long and still I would not be accessing my inner emotional world and learning more and more about who I am.

So, is it possible that her email is triggering because of your suspicion that this T is not the best T for you? And there's a lot of grief of the loss of a therapist we've been seeing for a long time. And there's the fear, like you mentioned, of being unfixable. And so, deep grief and fear well up and just about topple our world.

But, believe this - we are all fixable. Don't lose faith in that. If you're attached to your therapist, tell her how you've been disappointed in her methods. And if it seems that the two of you end up not meshing well, then it's perfectly o.k to look for a T that can provide what you need.

I am really sensitive, and I didn't take the I apologize if I said to much or jumped in too quickly. I understand where you are coming from, but this doesn't sound like the blow-off statement like, I am sorry if you felt that way type of thing. It sounded like she was coming up with ways that she felt she triggered/hurt you, such as saying to much or jumping in too quickly. Just my read on the situation, but I don't know her, so you would know better.

I would totally be hurt by her saying she feels she is often walking on eggshells. My T has said, "I am trying to be sensitive, I am trying to be sensitive." These two messages are very distinct. My T's message was that he knows I am sensitive but that he needed to tell me this. He wasn't upset about me being sensitive, he wasn't angry, he wasn't annoyed ( or least he didn't seem to be). What your T said was about her, what my T said was about me. I wrote this to try to put into words what is upsetting you. But like you can help being sensitive, like you can help being triggered and having that bring up tons of emotions? Isn't this what you are in therapy for? That sounded very unhelpful.

I was unaware that she is CBT trained. That is what my xT was. That type of training doesn't lend itself to dealing with various parts, like we spoke about earlier. I know you said she was talking about parts, though, and schema therapy.

Yeah, the "I will keep on trying to work with you" is rubbish It's not like you have tried several things for a certain duration, IDK. Her lack of attunement, just as an aside, might be you dissociating and feeling like she is not attuned. I remember with my T one time I was dissociated and I knew that we were not attuned because of me, but couldn't help it. You talk about blind faith, I wonder if you really ever trusted her at all?

Usually when others don't understand me, I pretty much know I am in the past. I do understand you, though, I hear what you are saying. I wish you could see a trauma specialists or a T that specializes in DID. Whether or not you have it, DID T's understand more of the workings of people that aren't whole.

((((((Torn)))))))))) You are not unfixable. I understand the feeling of being conned and feeling betrayed and backstabbed. I totally understand why you feel this way. Sometimes Do No Harm seems to fall by the wayside.

I don't like that either, Torn. Keeping you in my thoughts. It doesn't sound like you can trust this T, and trust is important. ((((((Torn))))))))

Torn,
I can understand why this email hurt you, although I do not believe that was it's intention. It sounds as though your T wants to keep trying to help you although she is not sure how and she is asking you to guide her?
I don't like the way she phrased the walking on eggshells comment though, it would have sent me into a spint too as I am very sensitive and have had people say they are walking on eggshells around me but I have since realised people use this as an excuse for their bad behaviour too.
I hope you can forgive your t and work through this as I think she made some mistakes but is willng to work through them with you.

When I read it, I thought she was saying that she wants therapy to go well, and that she will keep working on her part in it.

My T also appreciates feedback.

I think the line that she will keep working with you sounds like that is something limited and you might be nearing your limit. I think she just meant that you and she will keep plugging away, keep on working together on this/these issues.

I hope you'll be able to tell her how her email felt to you. It's likely to be really helpful.

Thanks for your comments Pachy - I suppose it must sound like the classic black/white dichotomy, but unfortunately I only ever really experience the negative side of the duality - I don't idealize, I've yet to meet a T that I've been able to look up to or even respect very much. As for her competence, I'm not sure how to measure that apart from how I end up feeling all the time vis a vis what she says/does - she could be the world's most objectively competent therapist and still not be any good at helping me. I don't want to write her off (for lots of different reasons) and a lot of what I'm saying on this thread about her is dictated by how I've been feeling (pretty damn bad).

Mind you at the end of the day, it's going to be my feelings that determine whatever decision I make about therapy (that is providing she doesn't pre-empt me and boot me out before then ). Thanks for your support

.

Skyblue thank you - you've picked up very clearly on what's going on in the background here - you're right it isn't just the words of her email - they are just another example of what seems to be going wrong, or maybe better to say, what's not going right, in this therapy. And you've very astutely also picked up on the emotional bind I'm in - the grief of a potential loss (which is actually quite big in this case because of the depth and strength of my hopes and needs loaded onto this particular therapist as being the last in a long line), and the fear of being unfixable - so thank you for your faith that I'm not unfixable, right now I'm really struggling with that. Thanks

Anti thanks so much for your insightful and empathic comments - I have to confess to being relieved to have someone empathize with and understand what I'm feeling - while it's really good to get positive perspectives on what my T has said, and to hear different viewpoints, I was starting to feel a bit like my feelings didn't matter and were incorrect - one step away from feeling in the wrong for having such a negative reaction to the email. You know what, I just feel like screaming to the heavens about how rubbish this T is making me feel and never mind being reasonable and mature about it all

You also say some insightful and wise things, that have given me lots to think about. I do think my T's choice of words was really poor, and while that's not a crime, I'd expect a T to be much more attuned to the potential interpretations of what they say than your average interlocutor - that's why it all seemed a tad sinister and threatening. To talk about being sensitive to my moods/feelings whatever, strikes me as a far better and infinitely more supportive way of saying the same thing...

You're dead right about the whole connection to the past - feeling not understood is my lifelong experience and it's pretty obvious there's some sort of pattern operating here.

And yes about CBT - though the specific approach T said she favours to use with me is Schema therapy, which involves working with (or about) parts/modes - on that basis I wasn't so averse to working with a CBT oriented T because she used some magic words that hooked me in - reparenting, meeting needs, attachment, encouraging dependency as an interim necessity, getting in touch with vulnerable feelings, getting in touch with feelings full stop - all of which go way beyond your average CBT type therapy. But I guess the training will out - she's very much into explanations and opposition and challenging even though we've both agreed that these only serve to antagonize me and aren't helpful at all. She just can't help herself . And I can't really expect her to monitor and change her natural way of being, in a session...

You've said loads more I'd like to comment on but this will end up being way too long a post, so I'll just thank you very much for your thoughtful post. Thank you

Hello Button and thanks for your comments - I really like how you've pointed out that the whole 'walking on eggshells' thing can sometimes be an excuse for other people's negative actions towards us, that certainly resonates. It's easy to feel put down by it, because there's nearly always a negative connotation to it - as Anti said above, there are infinitely better and more supportive ways of saying similar things. The way my T worded it, made it all about her and came across very much as a criticism of me, or at best, an indifference to my existence and feelings in the matter and a focus on hers. Actually she already self discloses way too much for my liking and I suspect she believes that telling clients how they make her feel is somehow therapeutic and healing. Maybe for some, but not for me, and not in this dismissive and critical way... oh I'm getting into rant mode again, sorry.

How interesting that you use the word forgive in relation to my T - you know I don't think I'm actually angry at her, not in that righteous way that can involve forgiveness at the end. My anger feels much more like defensive frustration and hurt, and it's keeping me attached rather than allowing me to want to push T away. What a horrid state to be in. I both hate her and need her to make it all better - ack . But I do take your point, it's my anger keeping me stuck in these bad feelings, and you're right, she does seem willing to keep working with me, I should be grateful for that (and I suppose on some level I am, which is what allows me to feel angry rather than completely devastated and overwhelmed with self hate and self blame and self contempt.)

Thanks Button

Hi Echoes and thanks for your post too. You too read her email positively huh? I can't deny there are positive comments in it, which is why I posted the whole thing because I knew I was picking on specific negative things and not hearing the whole message. So yeah not only have you pointed out that she seems to be wanting therapy to go well (as opposed to giving me the brush off as it felt to me) but you've highlighted the fact that she's thanked me for giving her the feedback in the first place - I must say she's constantly saying to me that it's always useful and helpful for me to tell her what I think isn't working (including being angry) and while personally I think yeah yeah you're just saying that because you have to not because you really want to know what you're doing wrong, maybe she really does use my feedback to learn about me. (Mind you if that's the case, she's not showing the learning very much .)

I get what you're saying in the paragraph about her meaning we will keep plugging away together, but I don't understand the first sentence, where you speak of something limited and I might be nearing my limit. Could you explain that for me please? Thanks.

And yeah, if I don't send my ****** email to her (which I won't be doing tonight at least) I'll definitely be bringing up how her response affected me - that's taken over as the prime concern now whereas my original email to her was how I felt the session itself has been rubbish. Good suggestion, thank you.

And thanks for replying

my prime surface feeling that is in constant awareness is anger (and infinite variations thereof) and I've had a very hard time in my therapy career trying to find Ts who are able to accept anger directed at them.

I think this is telling. I guess the question is: why are you so angry? Is it about T or the past? If it's about the past, why is it important to unleash anger at your T?

The walking on eggshells comment makes more sense to me now. I grew up with a Father who was generally a pretty placid sort of man. But my childhood was filled with family stories about the legendary violent temper of my grandfather, and how my Father made a decision to not give in to that kind of anger himself. While that sounds admirable, its effect was to terrify me: that at any moment, such violence could erupt. It always lurked just under the surface, and never knowing what might be the trigger, I walked on eggshells all the time.

It's extremely tiring and destabilizing to be under such pressure. It wouldn't surprise me if that were a bit what your T is feeling.

The other thing is that such below the surface anger is very controlling and crazy-making because on the surface, there appears to be nothing wrong. Especially when combined with "blind trust" which is really not benign at all: it is a form of idealizing that allows for no margin for error, and so is very unforgiving.

Wow, I so relate. SOOOOOO relate. Hugs.

Hi Torn,

While I can see some positivity in your T's response as other people have, I think I can also see how the negativity stands out more for you.

"I apologise if I said too much or jumped in too quickly."

Did you react negatively to the "if" because to you it was blatantly obvious that she did say too much and she did jump in too quickly and you feel angry and frustrated that it's not as obvious to her - that she actually has to question it?

" . . . and feel I am often walking on eggshells.. "

Antimatter, I'm so with you on this one. If someone was to tell me they felt they had to walk on eggshells while around me, I would take this as an insult. The reason being, that to me the person would be saying "It annoys me that I have to make an effort to watch what I say so as not to hurt you." My wonderfully twisted brain then turns this into "You're not worth that effort."

"I will keep on trying to work with you and provide an experience that is healing."

Yes, I can see the positive in this, but I can also see how it could be taken negatively. It's the word "trying" that doesn't sit right, because it implies that there is a chance that she might fail. For me, if she had written something like "I'll keep on working with you until I can provide an experience that is healing", that would have given me confidence that she wouldn't give up.

I know I've focussed only on the negative, but I think part of what you're looking for at the moment is to know that you're not alone in your thinking - that rightly or wrongly, there are other people who would have reacted in the same way that you have.

I think there's a lot of value though in thinking about the positive interpretations that other people have given you, too.

Bluey

I think many of the people, like me, who have tried to focus on the positive, really do hear where you're coming from too...or we probably wouldn't be stopping to try to give you an alternative perspective.

Personally I'm still caught up right now on the way my T has incorrectly worded things recently and I haven't worked through everything yet, so I really do get how hard it is. When I last saw her before she left for her break she called me intrusive, just because I'd wanted something (a reply to my text). I didn't do anything or ask for a reply. I just waited the whole Christmas break and then didn't even bring it up until my second session of this year. So it was all dealt with during my sessions...and I get called intrusive for wanting a reply. So I do think that incorrect wording can really hurt!

I just know from the past that there can be another way to look at the situation too. For me, when someone here points something like that out, sometimes I can't really take it in at the time, but later as I come to realise it for myself, I'm very grateful that someone tried to say something. Like when my T said I was intrusive this last time, even though I haven't had a chance to discuss it with her again, I think it was more a bad choice of wording than anything else. At least I hope so. I hope I'm still allowed to want things. Hopefully it's not a crime to bring them up as well, but I guess I'll find out and work with what I've got.

I do hope you're able to leave things in a slightly better place before the break.

I'm sorry Nightlight - I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else.

You didn't. I just saw how Torn mentioned feeling earlier, and so your response also promoted me to say that I really didn't mean to be banging on about only the positive stuff. I really do understand, even if I'm not saying the right things. What you said was thoughtful I think, and I know you also know what it's like to go through a rough T experience too.

Part of the..."I'm sorry if"... deals with insulating themselves from indirect failure. In other words, nevermind themselves that the patient had these problems long before I ever met you. Direct failure on their part would still force an apology out of them such as sexual misconduct or failing to recognize a threat to self etc...
"I'll keep trying," sends the message of I'll keep collecting your money even though I am not helping you. That would bother me too. That is a failure on the part of the T. It says I'm taking advantage of you for money.
The good news is that you're listening to the intuitive side of yourself and recognizing red flags about relationships. That's healthy.

Thank you Anti

Bluey thank you so much for taking the time to look at the negatives that I'm seeing - sure I agree there's a lot of value in thinking about the positive interpretations and I've very much appreciated them, but I also very much appreciate having my feelings/interpretations understood and validated - I do suffer badly from severe self doubt and am unable to place any trust or confidence in my own perceptions .

So your comments mean a lot to me

About the 'if' comment, yes, what I haven't explained is that in my email to T I listed specifically details of when she talked over me, interrupted, went into lengthy explanations that just spun me out, and generally talked about things that were way off the issues that I wanted to talk to her about. So it's less that I'm frustrated that she's not getting the obvious, as that she's more or less gaslighting me.

Of course, she may have dashed off the email in a hurry and just not thought of her choice of words. Yeah well, pigs might fly too...

Thank you Bluey

(((((( NL )))))) I didn't at all mean to denigrate or hurt people who have offered positive interpretations of my T's stuff - I very much appreciate your and other people's thoughtfulness in simply reading my stuff and taking the time to think about it and be supportive and helpful. And I thought you understood very well where I was coming from, your own story is frighteningly familiar. I must say I think you're very strong and brave to continue working through all the negative stuff that's coming up between you and T - I don't usually bolt per se, but given enough negative things I just can't even think to work on trusting anymore, so it's a big sign of your own goodness that you are able to keep seeing positives in your therapy.

I really hope things work out for you, sounds like you still have a lot of residual negative things to sort through. Thank you NL