Couch 55...And on it goes....

Hey couch peeps....

Have been spending my day on the couch watching Rush Hour movies, cuz I'm feeling pretty cruddy. Thankfully, the migraine has subsided some, but the nausea and weakness has been awful.

I have group T tonight, and one member posted on our blog that he won't be attending because he's uncomfortable with having the new coT running it without T while he is on vacation. He said he tried it for a couple weeks and he'd rather just wait until T comes back. I'm disappointed because I would've much rather had the opportunity to discuss it with him in group. I admire, though, the idea that he made a decision that he felt was best for him, regardless of how it impacts others. I wish I could be that way sometimes.

MKAC - if you can, find a rechargeable one. We had one that we used on a couple of older dogs I trained, but we spent a fortune on batteries. They are the expensive batteries too.

Back from the feed and grain, stopped by the organic farmer's market. I am so disappointed that it was mostly product and little produce. Sorry, but I am not interested in ma & pa Hippy's cannabis soap. lol. And I don't wear patchouli. Ick!

Question for my couch peeps....

I'm trying to make some sense about how I feel about the one group member who is not attending group because T is not there. When I think about the reasons why I am still going (aside from my normal reasons) even though I feel similar discomfort, I come up with:

- Wanting to help the group process, since I've been there for 4 years and have a strong knowledge of how the process works;
- Wanting to protect group members, in case there's some sort of derailment since T is not there to help navigate.

So, knowing that this group member (who started the same day I did) is choosing not to attend because of his discomfort, does it make sense that I feel abandoned? I'm not sure that's the right word for it, but it might fit.

Ill take a stab at it....

You seem to have a sense of duty to the group as a senior member and therefore you are feeling as though the other senior member is kind of leaving the load on your shoulders. Perhaps that person is just a little more selfish as they feel no responsibility to the group as whole? But ultimately its not your job either, if you want to continue to go don't do it out of a sense of responsibility... do it because you want to.

on a side note, my head is about to explode between work and moving... new bank, register to vote, which electric company, which internet provider, what tv service, change my address with everyone and thing.... drivers license....dog tags...renters insurance....yada yada yada.... OMG, I cant remember why I walk into the next room.... just keep swimming, just keep swimming...

MUE please dont think i am attacking or anything i am just putting out a different perspective on your feelings . i seems that maybe you have had issues about this T from the beginning .he does not seem to be your favorite person . in T absence and the fact that you had reservations about the ability of this T to run the group could it be that you were going to go in there with an adjenda to deal with this. that you had hopes to have another person to back you up .or even gang up on this T and not even give him a chance to run the group and instead spent the time dealing with the insecurities of the two of you . maybe others might have other stuff and the fact that this T is running it isnt an issue and may even like the new T . so with this comrade not going you are left alone to deal with it and afraid to bring it up on your own. i dont know the working of the group so i might be way off .intrested to hear if i am .just putting out something differnt to chew on.

Thanks, Lola. You're right, I do feel a sense of responsibility to the group and do feel a bit let down by the other group member.

I know that it's not my job - and T and I even talked about this recently when trying to figure out why there are times when I dissociate, freeze and shut down in group and other times when I don't. When I act on that feeling of responsibility, I tend to stay more present. I told T that being responsible for helping the group process is not my job, he said it's the "#1 job that I have"....and he encouraged me to hold onto my sense of being a leader in the group as it helps me to recognize that vulnerability doesn't lead to being harmed but can rather lead to closeness. Ultimately, I need to be able to understand that I don't have to be a leader in order to gain closeness, but perhaps this is merely a step in my journey - and someday, I'll be able to learn that I can be vulnerable without feeling that sense of responsibility.

Thanks, granite. I don't think this is a motivation at the moment, but I appreciate you sharing.

I already addressed coT a couple of sessions ago about what I was feeling towards him and his reactions to the group. The last couple of sessions haven't been so bad - because he has basically been keeping quiet most of the time and letting the group lead itself. He also said that he was working on evolving to more of how we normally do things, and I found myself feeling empathetic towards him and accepting of the idea of the need for a learning curve. So, I have no pressing need to confront coT at the moment, probably because that work has already been done.

I read this article and thought it was quite insightful. Just thought I'd share....

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...healthy-people

Does it bug you when someone decides to put their self first MUE? It sometimes bugs me, I get a little indignant when I see what I consider selfishness in others. Maybe because it is so ingrained in me to always, always, always put others first. In reality though, self care is quite important if you want to care for others.

Thanks, wiki.

Actually, I admire when people are able to make choices that they believe are in their best interest, as a form of self care. I guess, in this case, I am struggling with being able to see it as self care.

Perhaps he is making a decision that he believes is good for him....waiting until T comes back before addressing this. Perhaps he doesn't feel safe enough without T there to be able to navigate the clashes between him and coT in a healthy way, especially since this coT doesn't quite know how to react to him without being defensive.

Maybe it is self-care after all.

cool i am glad that you seem to have worked through all that because it was something you were in termoil over . you will have to let us know how it went .this is the first group meeting with your T on vacation?

sounds to me like it might be self care on his part.

Thanks, granite! Yeah, it was pretty rough the first few weeks, and it's still quite rough. I'm just trying to be patient and let the learning process happen.

No, this is the 3rd group meeting without T. Next week will be the 4th and then T will be back.

It just might be! Funny how I had to kinda work through the scenarios in my own mind to come to that possibility. My gut reaction tends to be that someone is trying to be spiteful - and it may very well be the case here, because both this member and coT seem to have ego/control clashes at the moment.

But it does make sense to me if this group member doesn't believe he can address it in a healthy way or that coT is in a place where he can respond in a healthy way, that it would be worthwhile to have T there to help facilitate that process.

Anyhoo....time for me to leave for group. Smaller group tonight - possibly only 4 or 5 people. That should be interesting....

good luck hope it goes well and thanks for not thinking i was attacking you i was not

Okay - moral nihilist (MN hereinafter) speaking here -
If everyone would take care of themselves and let other capable adults take care of themselves - I truly believe things go a lot more smoothly and happily for everyone. Otherwise, in my experience, it gets all gunked up. Taking care of one's self and leaving other capable adults (and by capable adults I mean those not adjudicated incompetent - not just those who make other decisions than one would themselves make) to handle their own lives, to ask for what they need, and to be able to hear and handle no if the object of the request does not want to do something.

Stopdog, you kind of sound like my T. Very wily of you. I say this because I parented my parents as a child and I'm having to learn how to STOP doing this. I need to let go of the idea that all of my 'assistance' makes me somehow superior. It doesn't. It just makes me really stressed and tired.

You're generally the first one to jump in and defend the (perceived) underdog. Doesn't that go against your stance that we should leave other capable adults to handle their own lives?

No it does not. I am not actively doing anything to those I perceive to be the underdog - they simply get my, mostly unspoken to them at any rate, hope they succeed against the overdogs.
I am only in favor of the underdog being left alone to do their thing. i do not always agree with whatever that thing may be.
Plus I am usually after the bigger idea of leaving everyone alone as the thrust of the whole thing. I am completely unwilling to go in and take over/take care for/of an underdog. I dislike imbalance in positions. There are very few things I believe in in and of themselves. It may be that moral relativist combined with a general sense of nihilism is my stock position.

what?? what is going on with you stop??

i do not think most people come here to be left alone. i would guess some do and can say i am posting but want to be left alone. it just seems a lot has got under your skin.maybe not i dont know .this is why i am asking .hope things are ok with you

I agree that most adults should be permitted to do as they like, as long as they are not hurting anyone else. If however, they post or ask publicly for input, I do not feel like I need to simply agree with them just to be supportive. Further, if innocent people, particularly children are being hurt or are in danger, I'm going to say something. Not that this is all that relevant to MUE's thing.

I thought she was just expressing and working through her feelings and not trying to dictate or control the other person's actions.

Stop, there just ARE some things that are wrong. Period. Pretending like they are not in the name of respecting someone's autonomy is really not helpful in the long run, in my opinion. From what I have seen locally it leads to dead children or children in jail for killing their mother's abuser.

Was that incident in your area MKAC. I heard it on the news.

Just acknowledging that my responses do reflect my general approach to life and that it does involve nihilism. Reading posts on psych central, I find a lot of hurt, misunderstanding, feeling unappreciated and so forth comes, in my opinion, from not focussing on oneself but rather from trying to take on responsibility that is not the actor's to do, and expecting others to be appreciative, or notice, or change in some fashion or to have some effect on others that, in my opinion, is unrealistic and destined to lead to hurt and messiness.
This is just my belief and certainly not everyone agrees with me. For all I know, no one else agrees with me. And I am not talking about any specific here. Just a general sense.

My response was not because I thought MUE was trying to control or dictate to others but rather as supporting the idea that adults can choose self care without that choice being selfish.

And I disagree with the other part of your post. I understand that is what you believe and I simply believe differently. I don't really expect either of us to change our positions. I really am fairly nihilistic and certainly a relativist. I definitely do not agree with telling others what is right and wrong for them in how they live, but again - I think we know this about each other and our positions. Also, children are not my soft spot. I don't particularly want harm to befall children, and it does not make me happy if it does, but it does not set me off either. I have different soft spots than children as my area of sensitivity.

Thanks, granite! I most certainly didn't feel attacked at all. On the contrary, I feel so appreciative that you spent the time to consider my situation and share what you were thinking and feeling.

Just got back from group. It went pretty well overall, except that it was nothing like our typical group process. We kinda derailed the whole thing in an effort to help the newbie understand what this type of group is about. She really needs to experience it firsthand, but we hoped to provide her with some insight into the workings of it so that she wasn't so 'in the dark'. She seemed to really appreciate it.

We also talked about the group member that decided not to attend...and several of us shared our initial reactions and then later reactions. It was interesting to see how similar our reactions were. When I shared about how I evaluated my own reasons for attending in spite of the discomfort with the new coT running the sessions, one group member said she understood my feelings exactly and viewed me as the parent and protector of the group. Another member resented it, not liking the idea that I was considered an "expert" in the room. All in all, an interesting session.

Stopdog, I don't believe at all that self-care would be deemed selfish. I was merely trying to figure out how to describe and convey my own reaction/feeling about his decision, since that's what we work towards in group (identifying our feelings and expressing them). I try to steer clear of making judgments - like calling something selfish. I felt let down - and by looking further into why, I was able to see what role I play in group and how my choice in roles impacts how I feel towards others. It's quite eye opening, actually. A learning process.