How to overcome "it's not fair?"

This is good advice, Perna. This is exactly what I will do if I get that call.

I thought I had deleted my comment. Turned out I made two postings instead You don´t have to explain this to me and I am sure everyone else ( that´s why I deleted it)........at least that was my intention.

I think it's wise to not be her emergency contact. Because her 'emergencies' are not true emergencies, they're cries for help (and/or attention) from a very unstable person. If you were close friends (which it seems to me, in my definition of friendship, you just aren't) then responding to her calls for help seems reasonable, while setting certain boundaries. But given that this is not the case, I would not be on-call for this person. It seems to me she's taking advantage. And maybe this is in part what makes you feel it's unfair? Do you feel she's taking advantage of the part of you that wants to be generous and helpful, to rescue? I think this dynamic is ripe for creating resentment in you (or most anyone on the receiving end). Because if you put yourself out there and keep getting burned, I can see how that would be upsetting. But my suggestion would be --don't put yourself out there for her. She'll find someone else (and then someone else, and on and on), I think it only hurts you to be on board this rollercoaster ride.

Yes, I think you're exactly right. I've completely extricated myself from the situation at this point; if I get a call, I won't take it. I'm done, no matter what.

But I think you hit the nail on the head about what I've been feeling. I was feeling like she was taking advantage of me, and I was feeling resentful. I was trying to be a nice person, and I felt slapped in the face.

When we first became friends, she told me about her difficult childhood-- and there were some parallels-- so I told her about mine, as well. I don't usually share those details of my life with people, but because I felt she went through something similar, I decided to be open with her. That's actually how we became friends. I also told her that I started going to therapy in order to process my childhood, and I asked her if she thought therapy might help her, too. She said yes and she asked me for a referral. So, I went out of my way to get my T to recommend someone for her, and then when she got nervous about going to her first appointment and asked if I would drive her there, I agreed. I thought "well, if she's willing to get help, I want to be supportive and do what I can to make this easier for her." I mean, how many of us wish that we had someone to support us when we first decided to seek therapy? I wish I had someone who would have been supportive of me, instead of hearing my family say to me: "why do therapy? that's stupid! you don't need that!" Because I didn't have someone support me around therapy, I thought it would be nice for me to support someone else. BUT-- she quit therapy in a matter of sessions, started drinking/taking drugs more, started treating me poorly, and started disrespecting my boundaries. It felt violating because she knew exactly what I'd been through when I was younger, and she was treating me in a way that triggered those feelings in me. I told her, when I first brought up the issue of her not respecting my boundaries, "Hey, remember when I told you about how I had to set boundaries with my family? Remember when we talked about those things? This is like that for me. I need to set these boundaries with you in order to protect myself. Do you get that?" She said yes, so I THOUGHT that she understood and that she could process that. What I've realized, thanks to this thread, is that I was expecting her to think and act like a sober person-- and she isn't sober. When she's drunk, she only has the ability to think about herself. And that's why I had to completely cut ties wit her.

I also think it's fair to say that I might be too quick to lend a helping hand. My dad is very much a caretaker, and he raised me to be the same way. He taught me that if you're doing well and someone asks for your help, then you help them. It's only now, as an adult, that I realize, sometimes, that isn't the best policy. Helping others can actually create dependency; you can be an enabler; you can give too much and then feel resentful. I suppose it's better sometimes to just mind my own business. I guess it just takes me awhile to figure out where the line is between helping a friend and getting myself sucked into a bad situation.

Wow! Just wow. I'm several years out from my Ph.D. During those years the newness of my PhD wore off, and a strong sense of "you know, I know a lot, but it's not enough" has taken hold.

Another thing I have definitely learned is that we judge cheese by its quality and not people.

Perhaps a little humility and wisdom is in order here. We definitely get to pick who we share our lives with, but it is not appropriate, in my opinion, to rank people according to what we define as quality. In fact, it is a luxury afforded to very few, and, even then, it is misplaced.

We do not have complete information on anyone, IF we did, then their behavior would likely make perfect sense. The judgement and righteous indignation (which only hurt us) falls away.

Persons in small towns may be different from you, but I can promise you that there are more similarities than differences.

People the world over are all just trying to survive, find some kind of peace and happiness, and make it to the next day.

We are all in this together. The LAST thing we need to do is judge each other.

elliemay, I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote. The message you're quoting was in direct response to this comment, from blur.

What I understood from blur was that s/he was suggesting that I seem to have too many friends who treat me poorly, and I should work on finding some friends who will treat me well. So, when I used the term "quality" in reference to my friends, I was referring to the quality of the friendship and the way they treat me-- I was not judging them as people in their own right. I was saying that the majority of my friends DO treat me well-- I have formed quality friendships with the people I've met through work and the social and volunteer organizations I belong to. However, the friendships I formed by going out in the lesbian community in my new city have not been of the same quality. In these friendships, I have been lied to, I have been flaked on, and my boundaries have been violated-- to me, these are not quality friendships, and I do not want to remain friends with these people. I think that is a healthy choice. I'm not saying that these friends are "bad" people, I'm saying that they are not able to be good friends to me right now.

I also was not making any blanket statements about small towns. I obviously have found quality friendships with people at work and in my social groups, all of whom live, and many of whom are from, the same small town. What I was explaining is that the reason I think I haven't made a lot of quality friendships with other lesbian women here is because it is such a small town, with such a small lesbian community. It is much easier to meet a variety of lesbian women in larger, metropolitan cities with an LGBT center, LGBT theatre companies, LGBT social groups, etc. That would make it easier to meet women who share my interests (volunteer work, theatre) and therefore have more in common with me. The women I have met by going out to the lesbian bars here have had very little in common with me, drink a lot, and have not treated me very we;l. I think I have every right to say that those have not been quality friendships for me.

From just quickly reading your other threads, this seems to been an issue at least going back to 2011? I am always a bit concerned when people " ALWAYS" end up in bad relationships/situations and blame it on someone else...That seems to be the theme..

I am bi and have some friends with PHD´S. Some are straight some are gay. None of us would dream of mentioning this all the time (?) It´s about human qualities. To tell you the truth, I love some of your replies to certain people. Therefore I was very surpriced yesterday, when you hadn´t thought about the fact that a drunk person might not respond to an email.

One can be ever so " perfect" and set high standards...BUT I have to agree with another poster...humility and wisdom may be lacking a tiny bit here

What thread are you referring to from 2011? I just looked over my own threads, and I can't find anything from 2011 that mentions anything similar. I definitely don't think I ALWAYS end up in bad friendships/situations, nor do I always look to blame others. In this thread, I specifically asked how "I" can overcome "my" feeling of "it's not fair." I didn't blame my friend for my feelings; I said this was "my issue" and I asked for advice about how to change "my" thoughts/feelings.

"I am repulsed by my Ex" thread. Hope you don´t mind, but isn´t that a bit related? BUT this may be off topic, and not what you were looking for. So nevermind.

I honestly don't see the correlation. I met my ex when I was 19 and we were domestic partners for 6 years. At first, it was a wonderful relationship; the first four 4 were really good. But, during the last 2 years, she slowly began to change and, at the very end, when she felt threatened that I might leave, she became abusive. So, after some deliberation, I decided to leave. However, I continued to have nightmares and residual body memories of the abuse. In that thread, I was asking how to get those nightmares and body sensations to go away. I would fall asleep and I would "feel" her there, and I didn't know how to get that to stop. Finally, it just did. But I don't see how that relates to this situation.

I do see a correlation. Look at HOW you write about other people.. not the issue in it self and how you describe your T´s reaction. ( Did I mention I really find you quite intelligent and enjoy your postings) I am just bored, I guess...Don´t mind me.

I'm getting the impression that there are those who feel that Scorpiosis is being elitist here in her judgment of others. I don't know if this is the case, but in any case, I think if we're really *honest* with ourselves, we tend to click with like-minded people, and further, I think people with similar education levels (which might also indicate other things in common) tend to gravitate towards each other. It's often on a subconscious level, but let's be real: class divisions in our society are very real. And we all participate in it in one way or another.

Scorpiosis, the only issue I have (and please correct me if I'm wrong, because I may well have misread), is that you seem to equate partying/drinking/recklessness(?) with other characteristics that I don't think necessarily go together. Plenty of people can be like this and not be such jerks. I lived a pretty reckless life for quite some time, but I didn't use and abuse people in the ways you described, etc. Although not the norm, I wouldn't characterize my lifestyle or my behavior as 'bad' (some may disagree). But I never expected anyone to bail me out, the way I saw it, it was my life, and any negative repercussions were on me. I didn't ask for help, either in unhealthy or -very unfortunately- healthy ways either -asking for help has always been extremely difficult for me.

First paragraph aside, I haven't heard Scorpriosis say that the quality of x friendship was poor because of their educational background, I've heard her say these friendships suck for very good reasons, which would be glaringly clear to anyone. I don't get the sense from you, Scorpiosis, that you insist your friends have PhD's. I'm hearing that you're in a small town now, and there's simply less to choose from, which makes perfect sense to me. Part of the issue here, in this context, is 'settling' (for poor friendships, not non-sophisticates); it's always your choice to 'settle' though; you're bound to get burned, but it was your choice to give it a try (I do understand, though, that in the beginning of a friendship, as in any relationship, it can be hard to tell how things will pan out).

Ultramar, thanks for chiming in. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. I also appreciate you pointing out that that I was not trying to bring educational background into the mix when talking about my friendships. That was never the issue. I was talking about the way I was being treated. In fact, the friend I'm talking about in this post, who treated me poorly, went to a very good University. She has a strong educational background; my best friend, on the other hand, does not and that has in no way impacted our friendship. (Okay, so he calls me when he needs help with proofreading and I call him when I need help putting something together; it's a mutually beneficial relationship). Anyway, I just want to make it clear that I don't think education level has anything to do with one's ability to be a good friend. Do I look for people who have things in common with me, and enjoy similar activities? Yes. Can a similar educational background or profession be one of those things? Yes, but it doesn't have to be. If it were a requirement, then I'd lose my best friend, who moved across the country in order to live close to me.

However I phrased things, I was not intending to say that partying/drinking are necessarily synonymous with the negative behaviors that caused me to end my friendship with this girl (lying, violating my boundaries, constantly asking me to bail her out, etc). There are some who can live that lifestyle and still be good friends. This girl is simply not one of them. Would she still be lying and violating my boundaries if she were sober? I don't know. But I do know that her treatment of me is something I cannot accept. And, for me, it helps to understand that her behavior towards me is probably not personal; her substance abuse is probably impairing her ability to respond to me in a healthy way.

OTOH - we - and by we I do mean sis and I - are having difficulty finding a mate we feel is a good match. It seems like we end up giving more than we're getting. So rather than being too discriminatory, I think I settled for too little - waaaay too little, and then got burned. But when your mother rejects you, I think the tape in your head keeps saying, "...but they're not going to like me. They don't know I'm good enough for them, but I really am." That's what my tape keeps saying, anyway. Eta: so I dont even try. I think im too fat or whatever.

i'm sorry. i can see how my comment came across as judgmental. i was trying to say to hang out with emotionally healthier people and not people caught up in so much dysfunctional behavior that spills onto others. i definitely don't think anyone is any better than anyone else. being emotionally healthier doesn't in any way make one better--just healthier. i was was obviously quite careless in how i expressed that. again, my apologies.

Your story of getting over it's not fair, when your siblings got, and maybe still get, things that aren't fair, was helpful for me and I identified with it.

Your boundaries for getting involved with alcoholics and people with other major life problems have been lower than mine have ever been. The pace with which, according to your threads, you feel you've make deep changes in your life circumstances and relationships is much more rapid than I can imagine in my life. I imagine deeply understanding and changing one's boundaries in friendships or relationships to be something that occurs over a period of years and it often sounds like you've done it in a period of weeks. I think this might be a difference in how confidently you or I would report that we've made a change. Maybe we are towards different ends of an extreme with that.

Your tendency to talk about people in terms that many would consider elitist (such as "quality") is very different from mine. Even though I understand you were using the term another poster used, it still comes across as strongly worded to me. Since you haven't had the boundaries I've had all along, maybe you feel you need to use stronger words to classify and draw boundaries, I don't know. I agree with the poster who said that all (or most) of us have these elitist tendencies consciously or unconsciously. I'm not sure that makes it okay to talk about them explicitly as if they're acceptable though. When I recognize them in myself, I think of them as something to change, not explicitly talk about as if they are a good thing. I don't mean that one should be in close friendships with alcoholics, drug addicts, or people who are letting their mental health issues cross your boundaries in extreme ways. I just mean that I think there are more sensitive ways to talk and think about people in those categories than to label them as lacking quality. Again, if you're in the process of struggling with your own boundaries, maybe it is understandable to think about them in extreme categories like "low quality" for a while though.

I really feel like I am being misunderstood in this thread. Obviously, I was not as articulate as I should have been in expressing myself, and this has caused a lot of confusion. I was never using the word "quality" to refer to people; I do not think that way or judge people that way. It is really bothering me that people have that impression of me, because it is inaccurate. I realize that my language was not as clear as it should have been, but I was referring to the "quality" of my friendships. Setting boundaries is something I have struggled with-- due to my childhood circumstances-- and it is something I've been working on in T for a long time. Through a lot of hard work, I've begun setting better boundaries and standing up for myself when those boundaries are violated. I've had to confront the fact that I've allowed myself to be in relationships where I'm not being treated very well. That wasn't any easy thing to admit. And, as part of my work of setting better boundaries, I've had to end some of those friendships, because I've realized that they are not healthy for me. That was also hard. Because of my own abandonment history, it was difficult to feel as though I was "abandoning" someone else. That's another thing I had to confront in order to become a healthier person.

The reason I started this thread was because I had just ended what I felt to be my last "unhealthy" friendship, and I was hurting-- I was afraid that my friend would be really hurt by the end of our friendship and I was worried that she wouldn't have anyone to turn to without me. Even though I was upset with my friend and knew I had to end the friendship, I still cared about her well-being. I felt so bad about ending the friendship that I didn't feel like going out with my other friends that night, and decided to stay home instead. Then, I saw on fb that my friend was out, presumably having fun and not even thinking about the fact that our friendship had just ended-- and I thought: "Why am I sitting at home feeling bad, beating myself up over this, and worrying about her, when it seems like she doesn't care?" Then I thought "I need to learn how to deal with my feelings better. I need to stop worrying about how others are thinking/feeling, and focus on myself and my boundaries. I need to stop thinking that it's not fair that I'm the only one who seems to be upset and hurt by this. I'll see if I can get some advice on PC." So, I wrote my post.

At first, it seemed like those who were responding to me had the impression that ALL or MOST of my friendships were unhealthy; that all or most of my friends were treating me poorly; that all or most of my friends were lying to me, cheating, or drinking excessively, and then asking me to bail them out. It seemed that everyone thought this must be a pattern, where I was constantly allowing myself to be treated badly by everyone around me. Since that is not the case, I tried to clarify. I tried to explain that MOST of my friendships were healthy, and that most of my friends did treat me well. There were only a few, out of all of my friends, who were treating me poorly. Then, I tried to explain (as a means of understanding for myself, too) how I had managed to enter into these specific friendships that were healthy-- and how I was working on changing that. However, in trying to write that explanation, I was not articulate enough and I apparently gave the impression that I'm someone I'm not. Now, I feel like my thread has become a series of accusations-- and a series of defenses. It's made me feel much worse than I did before I wrote the thread so, honestly, I wish I had never started it. I did get some good advice mixed in there, but very few of the responses addressed my initial question of how I might be able to better manage my thoughts/feelings about the things in life that "just aren't fair"-- but that we still have to accept.

An unintended consequence is that my thread has made me feel even worse about putting up healthy boundaries because I feel like i'm being perceived as judgmental for deciding that I want to walk away from those relationships in which I'm not being treated well. It was really, really hard for me to stand up for myself and set that boundary-- and my T was proud of me for (finally) doing that-- but the responses to my thread are making me feel pretty low for protecting myself from someone who was violating my boundaries. Last session, my T told me how proud she was of me for (finally) standing firm on my boundaries and communicating directly with someone who violated them (since confrontation is difficult for me, and something I've worked on with my T). That's one of the first times T has ever used the word "proud" and it meant a lot to me-- and I wish I hadn't posted about this topic because, now, when I think about upholding my boundaries, all of the negative feelings from this thread overwhelm that. I feel like a jerk, and I'm really not a jerk. I'm someone who, like a number of us on PC, suffered a lot as a child, and has tried heal from that and create a better life as an adult. I've had poor boundaries because I didn't want to push ANYONE away; what if I pushed away the only people who wanted to stay? What if I was left with no one? I had to get to the place that I was okay being alone, before I could actually set and maintain my boundaries. I had to learn how to love myself enough to believe that I deserved to be treated well. I've been working on these things in therapy for 3 years, and it's been a long and difficult road.

I think I'm going to bring this whole thread in to my T tomorrow. I want her perspective on all of this. She's one of the people who knows me the best, and she can tell me what she thinks is being misunderstood and what she thinks I really do need to work on.

((( Scorpiosis )))

The derailing of your thread reminded me of something I've learned in group T.

Sometimes people get too involved in the details and those details create more opportunity for adverse reactions, judgments, debates, nitpicking, etc.

By focusing on our experience/feelings and sharing that, as opposed to describing the details of what occurred, our message has a greater opportunity to be heard and understood.

I'm very sorry that this thread took a turn that has not been beneficial to you. However, as I read through the entire thing, and then come back to your original question, I do think you've gotten some good advice on how to shake the "it's not fair" feeling.

I think what contributes a lot to that feeling is the judgment call about behaviour. People are who they are at the time. They act the way they act at the time.

Also, we allow what people and when those people are in our lives, but it has to be more about us than them. When we decide they are bad, that's when the judgment comes in, and the sense of fairness or unfairness comes into play.

As an example of neutrality is that I am allergic to dogs. I have a friend who has several. I can't even be around her without sneezing. So, I chose not to be around her.

Is she a bad person - no. She's fantastic. Is she good for me? Not at all. The situation is such that it just doesn't work out.

Good for you for realizing what is just not working for you. The key is, however, keeping it about you.

I think, as MUE, pointed out, that this thread sort of moved away from you, and about the behaviour of others, and people are picking up on that external focus as one of the sources of your pain.

I think you even indicated as much in your original post.

How do you keep the focus on you? I still think wisdom and humility are incredibly important. Be wise and know yourself, but be wise about the behaviour of others. We have to be humble in the absence of complete knowledge about them, which we will never have. I think the combination of these two, with a whopping dose of empathy thrown in, frees us from the hold of others almost completely.

I hope your therapist can help you better than we have and that she can fully validate your setting boundaries and knowing yourself.

peace to you.

I battled this for years. It seemed like the harder I tried to do good, the more people not doing "good" (imo) were rewarded. I had a wise T ask me once what I thought fair treatment of these folks would be, and I realized that I honestly wanted good things for them. I was just invidious of their good fate. Now when this feeling takes over I think "what would I rather happen to them?" and I find myself eventually feeling happy for them. I don't think you want your "friend" to suffer the consequences of her actions really. I think you just want to be told you are right for walking away and that you are the better person.

You are right in walking away.
The "better person" is still up for grabs, unfortunately.

I doubt I'll ever overcome this myself. No-one deserves what I'm going through, not even the worst criminal in the world. I'm always like "Why me? What have I done?"

Aaah well, life's not fair.

I never got the impression that you tend to have unhealthy friendships at all; my impression is that you have a good, broad social circle and are now trying to shed past habits of letting people take advantage of you -at worst- or just overstepping boundaries.

I think when there are long posts, it can be difficult for some to get through it all, and then you kind of skim and find these words that stand out to you and annoy or whatever. But, of course, the key is in the context, and the post(s)' story as a whole, not just yuck this or that word sounds judgmental.

In any case, as far as judging others (as you are with this person who flaked on you and then went out to party, etc.), I really do think it's unrealistic to say that anyone can completely avoid judging others (if only on a subconscious level) or is above that, or we should always avoid it, at any cost. She no doubt has her reasons (everyone does) but what the hell, that girl sounds like a jerk, I have no problem making that judgment. Others can disagree and so on.

But this is about how you're learning -and putting into practice- hard-won skills and strategies when it comes to setting up boundaries, sticking up for yourself, etc. And this is where, although it's been a struggle in this case, heart-wrenching even, you have been very successful. This is to be celebrated!

You're clearly very interested in learning from this experience, and exploring your emotions and behaviors related to it, figuring it all out (especially as this is new to you) so that you can understand what's going on, and decide how to go about this, how to further improve. You set up the boundaries you needed to -a big step forward- but then suffered in the aftermath for various reasons. I think it was brave of you to share the fact that her FB comment made you mad -it's perfectly human, but a difficult thing to admit, you let yourself be vulnerable here in putting it out there, that's not easy.

All in all, kudos to you!

I think that putting much emphasis on being or doing "good" is a set up for feeling bad at others when they fail to live up to your standards or when you are not rewarded for being "good." I don't think "good" is something that can be rewarded by others - if for no other reason than I don't think everyone agrees on what "good" is.
I did not read the thread as your "healthy boundaries" being the difficulty others found with the posts. I read everyone as supporting your boundary setting as a good thing. I found the challenge to be where it seemed you set good boundaries (a positive thing I think) and that was not enough - you were still looking for some sort of affirmation or sign or acknowledgment of your email pointing out her flaws (which I am in no way saying do not indeed sound flawed) from the woman you set the boundaries against.
I do think the boundary setting thing is a positive and healthy step. I think expecting the other woman to react in a positive or penitent fashion after having her transgressions emailed to her regardless of your intent that she take the email to heart and use it to change her shiftless ways, may have been a bit of an overly ambitious expectation.

The only time I referred to being "good" was when I brought up the way the current situation reminded me of my childhood. I was using "good" to refer to the rules that were set in my family, by the adults. I didn't mean to imply that there are objective "good" and "bad" ways to be, especially now as adults. I was trying to express that it felt unfair to me, as a child, when I "followed the rules" and was punished, while my sister broke the rules and was rewarded. I had no say in what rules those were; I was just trying to find a way to get attention/praise as a child, but it was always elusive.

I was not trying to assert any standards for how people should behave in their own lives. I was only trying to assert standards for how I want to be treated in my relationships. I suppose my friend did fail to live up to my standards, but that was because she treated me poorly-- not because of how she behaves in her own life, in ways that do not affect me.

I just want to add a clarification about what was in my e-mail to my friend. I didn't point out her personal flaws, or her shiftless ways, or ask her to change how she conducts herself in her private life. I only reiterated my boundaries, and told her how it affects me and our friendship when she violates those boundaries. I told her that I felt hurt and disrespected by her latest boundary violation, and that I could no longer continue this pattern with her. I told her that I needed to protect myself, but that I still cared about her as a person and I wished her nothing but the best. I also told her that I was willing to talk about this, if she wanted to.

I realize that I cannot have expectations about how she responds to my letter; that is up to her. I have no say in that. If I feel disappointed by her response (or lack thereof), that is MY issue-- and that is something I can talk about in my therapy. I do have the right to my feelings though, since feelings just "are"; we don't get to choose how we feel. I admit that I felt upset when my friend didn't say "I'm sorry for violating your boundaries." I realize that is MY issue, not hers, and that I would be better off if I didn't have that reaction. It does not help me to feel upset. So, I'm working on processing that with my T in the hopes that, next time something like this happens, I won't feel that way. But I don't think I'm wrong for having my feelings. I think it's understandable to want someone to say "I'm sorry" when they have been inconsiderate and disrespectful towards you. I don't think those are judgments; I think those are facts. When you tell someone "this is my boundary; please do not do X" and they do "X" anyway, I think that behaving in an inconsiderate and disrespectful way towards you. For instance, my friend knew that I keep my phone on at night because my father is ill and I need to be reachable in the event of an emergency. So, every time she would call at 3am or 4am, I would jump out of bed and run to the phone, terrified that something happened to my dad. And, instead, it would be her, drunk dialing me. She even told me that she called me BECAUSE she knew I kept my phone on for my dad, so I'd be the most likely to answer. I told her how much that hurt me-- that she was willing to wake me up in the middle of the night and intentionally let me think something happened to my dad, just so I'd answer and possibly bail her out. I did want her to understand how it made me feel when she violated my boundaries, and I was hoping that she would apologize. I also realize that it's not productive for me to have those hopes or expectations. I should focus solely on myself; setting my boundaries, and handling my own feelings. That's something I'm working on with my T. So, maybe, next time, I'll be able to do that.

Thank-you, Ultramar. This was very helpful.