[Lauliza]

I know many of you have heard this story and may be tired of it, and for that I apologize in advance, so please bear with me....

Anyway, I have gone through difficulties in my marriage over the last 7 years, beginning when my H strayed and left me and the kids. He came back, left again (at my request) then came back yet again (mutual). I was more undecided about the emotional reasons all along, but knew we couldn't survive financially or parent our autistic daughter and two other kids effectively without living together.

Through all this I've seem a male pdoc and a female T who have both helped me tremendously. I have written on here multiple times regarding transference for my pdoc, which has been intense at times. Beyond my writing and my thoughts, there has been nothing inappropriate about the relationship between my pdoc and I. In fact, he's been through similar life events and has been quite helpful.

The problem now is the tension appears back with my husband and I. He hates my pdoc and has ever since they met once 6 years ago. He thinks he influences me in a negative way and doesn't like that I talk to him about us. My H also found posts on PC regarding my transference feelings that didn't help - my fault, I know. Still, I tried to explain it was only writing - nothing has ever or will ever happen. Its all in my head and he is my doctor. I do feel he gets me and he and my T are the only people that I talk to in depth about my relationship, as I feel like discussing with family/friends puts my H in a bad light and I don't want to do that to him. So I figure the therapy is best. Problem is, my T is cutting back and I don't think I'll get to see her much, so I may rely on the male (remember, much hated by H) pdoc to talk to. I know he was at one point biased against my husband but in the last year is much more neutral, probably given our living situation. H and I don't have a sex life, which is hard for me to grasp. Its due to 2 things: general lack of connection and severe pain I feel during sex that I've never understood until now and I thnk we can work on it, but he doesn't seem to want to.

I wonder if other people in my situation would stop seeing this male pdoc, perhaps as a way to prove to H that I really care? Would it be the ultimate proof, or am I just making a big deal out of something that H should be able to handle? The issue is that I'm not sure I would pursue treatment, my past has been shaky with consistency. I've been very regularly seeing him and my female T when I can, and have held it together relatively well. At least given the circumstances. Without treatment, I think I'd be worse. Unfortunately, I don't think my H agrees and may even feel I've been worse since starting treatment. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Sorry if it's been the same question over and over, but it when it pops up, I'm not quite sure where to go with it or how to handle it. Thank you for listening...

[stopdog]

I would not change doctors because of a spouse. A compromise perhaps would be I might try another md if the spouse would consent to see a therapist themselves.

[NowhereUSA]

in your situation, no, i wouldn't change. i think circumstances and type of relationship make all the difference. my H rarely makes any demands on me and so if he felt uncomfortable with a doctor or even my t, i'd switch (and i have made that offer before with regards to my male t because my h once admitted to feeling a bit jealous but he recognized that having a t i connected to was important and he trusted me and the system).

however, it doesn't sound like your h would see this as proof you care. from just what i see here, it sounds like he would see it as proof that he can control you. in your situation i wouldn't change (tho i might consider switching to a t that has more time?).

[unaluna]

I would try to get that sex thing taken care of. Maybe the t or pdoc can refer you. Which should make both h and you happier. Life's too short.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

in your situation, no, i wouldn't change. i think circumstances and type of relationship make all the difference. my H rarely makes any demands on me and so if he felt uncomfortable with a doctor or even my t, i'd switch (and i have made that offer before with regards to my male t because my h once admitted to feeling a bit jealous but he recognized that having a t i connected to was important and he trusted me and the system).

however, it doesn't sound like your h would see this as proof you care. from just what i see here, it sounds like he would see it as proof that he can control you. in your situation i wouldn't change (tho i might consider switching to a t that has more time?).

Part of me understands his insecurity because my pdoc is a male peer to my H, and I think that is threatening to him. If another man is encouraging me to be more independent and do or not do certain things, then that makes him upset.

But then the other part of me knows rationally that my doctor does not tell me what to do, ever. He gives an opinion and as a man, he gives a male point of view. But the only goal he has overall is to make sure I make the right decisions for my self and am able to function and take care of my children. I've told my H that this man has no personal interest in what happens in our marriage, so long as it is the right thing for me. But he doesn't "poison" my mind against my H the way he thinks my doctor has.

Granted the transference stuff I've written about did not help, but there is nothing beyond my writings in that regard. Is this common male thing - to feel insecure when a wife sees a male T or psychiatrist?

[stopdog]

It is a common human thing. It happens when anyone who is insecure thinks another person is influencing the object they want to control. It happens with lesbians and it happens with straight people who have the same sex therapist (female to female - the therapist is anti-male or a lesbian or a ball buster or whatever the threatened person can think of as their worst insult.)

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

Is this common male thing - to feel insecure when a wife sees a male T or psychiatrist?

I think its non-thinking alpha-male jungle type behavior. Me Tarzan you Jane.

[NowhereUSA]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

Part of me understands his insecurity because my pdoc is a male peer to my H, and I think that is threatening to him. If another man is encouraging me to be more independent and do or not do certain things, then that makes him upset.

But then the other part of me knows rationally that my doctor does not tell me what to do, ever. He gives an opinion and as a man, he gives a male point of view. But the only goal he has overall is to make sure I make the right decisions for my self and am able to function and take care of my children. I've told my H that this man has no personal interest in what happens in our marriage, so long as it is the right thing for me. But he doesn't "poison" my mind against my H the way he thinks my doctor has.

Granted the transference stuff I've written about did not help, but there is nothing beyond my writings in that regard. Is this common male thing - to feel insecure when a wife sees a male T or psychiatrist?

i think some level of insecurity can crop up, but that's not something you personally can fix. that's something that he has to deal with. that's kind of why i shared the example of my husband. he knows and has met my t. he also recognizes that i talk to my t about things i may not share with him and, because i'm his wife, that triggers a bit of jealousy in him. however, he recognizes that nothing is going to happen and he appreciates that my t is always reminding me to be open.

i think i would feel similarly if he were seeing a female t. for us tho, we keep communication open and i strive to share with him things that go on in therapy because when therapy is over, my h is still going to be here.

you could quit seeing your pdoc, but i think my concern is that you'd be acquiescing to his insecurity and that will become his mode of dealing with things when he feels insecure about what you're doing. it troubles me that he considers the pdoc "poisoning" you to him. have you talked with your t about any of this?

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by hankster

I would try to get that sex thing taken care of. Maybe the t or pdoc can refer you. Which should make both h and you happier. Life's too short.

The sex thing won't change depending on who my T or pdoc is. I wrote something once on PC that stated my T and pdoc felt that at this point the sex may not be worth it because it might create expectations that might not be followed up on. My H read it that and understandably wasn't happy.

But this was an issue for 10 years before I saw my pdoc - its been there since day 1. So while it can be easy to blame my pdoc for that, it's not the reason. It was a stupid thing to write online, but it has nothing to do with it otherwise.

I would not change my pdoc if your seeing him is helping you. Your life, your health, your choice.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

you could quit seeing your pdoc, but i think my concern is that you'd be acquiescing to his insecurity and that will become his mode of dealing with things when he feels insecure about what you're doing. it troubles me that he considers the pdoc "poisoning" you to him. have you talked with your t about any of this?

I've spoken to both of them and they both think I should be more careful about what I write online and password protect my laptop better. Beyond that, neither thinks I should change anything for the same reasons you give. That it's giving into a certain level of neanderthal - type thinking. They've also formed opinions over the years based on what I've shared (granted only one sided) and from that would probably be concerned.

The thing is that I was very passive for the first 10 years of marriage and the whole 7 years we dated. We didn't fight at all. I am an avoidant personality and avoid conflict at all cost, even if it means sacrificing my own sanity and happiness. If something was wrong, he'd stop talking and I'd stop being sexual. I also took SSRI's for most of our time together and that does kill any romantic drive which my H does know. There was also the physical thing that I have only recently seen a doctor for.

The biggest change is now I go to graduate school and I complain. I speak up, I give him a bit of what he calls "attitude". I've written that he's old fashioned and can be a jerk. I do attribut this to a lot of the support I've gotten from my T and pdoc. He does too and this is where the "poinsoning" comes into play. If I hadn't seen them (especially him) everything would be the way it once was. Which I do not ever want back, but he does.

[NowhereUSA]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

The biggest change is now I go to graduate school and I complain. I speak up, I give him a bit of what he calls "attitude". I've written that he's old fashioned and can be a jerk. I do attribut this to a lot of the support I've gotten from my T and pdoc. He does too and this is where the "poinsoning" comes into play. If I hadn't seen them (especially him) everything would be the way it once was. Which I do not ever want back, but he does.

would he ever be open to any kind of marriage counseling? idk. i guess i wonder how connected the two of you can be when he wants you to be your old unhappy, passive self so that he doesn't have to deal with really getting to know you.

not trying to be judgmental, it just seems like there's a big rift where he's going to have to accept and give.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

would he ever be open to any kind of marriage counseling? idk. i guess i wonder how connected the two of you can be when he wants you to be your old unhappy, passive self so that he doesn't have to deal with really getting to know you.

not trying to be judgmental, it just seems like there's a big rift where he's going to have to accept and give.

We did go to marriage counseling actually for about a year, which was ok, but we never got too deep into it and so I wanted to stop. I liked the guy but he was older and tended to go off in tangents and we never accomplished what we were there to do. Any conversation that reached emotion was not welcomed by H and I was still passive, so we never explored the intimacy or infidelity issues (which were never admitted to) Interestingly, my H saw him individually after we stopped as a couple which I was so pleased with. It was off and on, but being the kind of guy he is, I was shocked he went at all. He continued until the this man retired. I've since suggested going again and he doesn't want to see someone else.

[feralkittymom]

If I hadn't seen them (especially him) everything would be the way it once was. Which I do not ever want back, but he does.

So why even consider this sort of "acquiescence" to his insecurities, which are a very convenient tool of control and intimidation?

[Polibeth]

I would not change pdocs. My H gets jealous of pdoc and t too - he has insecurities and wants me to never talk about him in session (I do anyway - he's a major source of material for sessions). H is just now seeing that it is starting to help me deal with the issues we have. Good for you for standing up for yourself even if your H thinks it's "attitude". You should not have to go back to the way things were. Is your H uncomfortable with change - any change for good or bad? My H hates change.

[Favorite Jeans]

Is not being a doormat evidence of having a "poisoned mind"?
What sacrifices has your H made to demonstrate to YOU how much he really cares?
Do you read personal stuff that H has written?
IMHO complaining that you get "attitude" from someone sounds like the expectation is that they will just acquiesce/comply and that you're entitled to feel resentful when they don't.

It sounds like your H is feeling insecure and instead of coming to you and saying "I feel uncertain of my place in your life and I wish you and I were as emotionally connected as you seem to be with pdoc" he is controlling and belittling. He needs to work on that and you don't have to defer to his unreasonable requests.

I think you show someone that you really care by investing in your relationship with them, not by neglecting your mental health. Can you both find ways to have more emotional intimacy between you? How much have you explored the barriers to a good sex life with H? Have you seen a sex therapist or a physician who specialiazes in sexual medicine? Have you done some reading about it? Is all sex painful or just PIV? I'm not sure I understand why your T or pdoc would feel that this wasn't worth pursuing further. Is your current agreement that you are both celibate?

I think having sex of whatever kind can go a long way in helping you feel connected and bonded enough that you have greater resilience as a couple in the face of normal tension, stress and disagreement. It would be high on my list of things to address.

If that seems totally unpalatable, another option could be to look at creative solutions for a companionate marriage in which you have separate lives, including perhaps romance with others, but prioritize each other in household and parenting matters.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

How much have you explored the barriers to a good sex life with H? Have you seen a sex therapist or a physician who specialiazes in sexual medicine? Have you done some reading about it? Is all sex painful or just PIV? I'm not sure I understand why your T or pdoc would feel that this wasn't worth pursuing further. Is your current agreement that you are both celibate?

I think having sex of whatever kind can go a long way in helping you feel connected and bonded enough that you have greater resilience as a couple in the face of normal tension, stress and disagreement. It would be high on my list of things to address.

This is a good question, and until recently I didn't explore the reasons in depth behind it. The pain is so unbearable that it is almost torture, and only present with him. I always thought it was just either a problem with me physically or psychologically so I put up with it but didn't initiate sex much. But after finally seeing a specialist about the pain (it's been worse with age but always present) the conclusion is that it is physical and not due to stress or other things psychological.

There are options my GYN doctor and also therapist gave that may help, but I haven't brought them up as I'm frankly afraid of rejection. At this point he might not want to try anymore. Its not that he asks and I say no - I've never actually said "no". It's just a lack of connection/communication and neither one of us asking. It's sad, really.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

Part of me understands his insecurity because my pdoc is a male peer to my H, and I think that is threatening to him. If another man is encouraging me to be more independent and do or not do certain things, then that makes him upset.

How does your H know what your pdoc says to you? I'm assuming it's because you choose to divulge the details of your sessions to H. I would respectfully suggest that you stop doing that. If you're using your pdoc as a justification for what you're doing, "well, pdoc said it would be good for me to do X", then consider that simply changing what you say to "this is what I want to do" or "this is what is important for me to do" or "this is what feels right for me to do."

I don't think that anyone has anything to "prove" to a spouse. You could just as easily say that your H could prove to you that he cares by graciously accepting the health care providers that you choose.

On your the pain you feel in sexual situations, I've been through something like this. There is great information and great products on Home - Vaginismus.com . Also, I did about 9 months of pelvic floor therapy (with a licensed physical therapist trained in the techniques) and was able to get my body and my sexuality back. I think it might be important for you to feel whole sexually, regardless of whether your H has interest or not. I think my overall health, especially including my psychological health, improved as well.

I wish you the best. It sounds like you are going through a lot, and I'd encourage you to stick with your T and pdoc as long as they are best for you. It seems to me that they are really in your corner. Put yourself first, for your children as much as yourself (that whole oxygen mask thing).

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by Polibeth

I would not change pdocs. My H gets jealous of pdoc and t too - he has insecurities and wants me to never talk about him in session (I do anyway - he's a major source of material for sessions). H is just now seeing that it is starting to help me deal with the issues we have. Good for you for standing up for yourself even if your H thinks it's "attitude". You should not have to go back to the way things were. Is your H uncomfortable with change - any change for good or bad? My H hates change.

Same here. He assumes he is the topic of conversation in ALL my sessions, which he isn't. He can't imagine why else I'd be there. He is a topic of course, but not the only one. My H is also not comfortable with change. He is very rigid in his thinking- very traditional- and has trouble thinking outside the box. Also, discussions about sex just don't happen with him, he is very uncomfortable talking about it in any way. It can quickly become critical because he has rigid ideas about the way things "should" be.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

The thing is that I was very passive for the first 10 years of marriage and the whole 7 years we dated. We didn't fight at all. I am an avoidant personality and avoid conflict at all cost, even if it means sacrificing my own sanity and happiness. If something was wrong, he'd stop talking and I'd stop being sexual. I also took SSRI's for most of our time together and that does kill any romantic drive which my H does know. There was also the physical thing that I have only recently seen a doctor for.

The biggest change is now I go to graduate school and I complain. I speak up, I give him a bit of what he calls "attitude". I've written that he's old fashioned and can be a jerk. I do attribut this to a lot of the support I've gotten from my T and pdoc. He does too and this is where the "poinsoning" comes into play. If I hadn't seen them (especially him) everything would be the way it once was. Which I do not ever want back, but he does.

From this first paragraph, it sounds like you are co-dependent and you might find some helpful material in this literature. I like Pete Walker, he has books and a website:

Pete Walker, M.A. Psychotherapy

In his view, co dependency is interconnected with complex ptsd and trauma responses. I used to stereotype co dependency as people who would collude in their partner's addictions, like running out to get his whiskey or whatever. At it's heart-- or at least what speaks to me-- co dependency is abandoning yourself for the sake of someone else's feelings or demands. IMO, it's the worst kind of abandonment someone can do.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I also would not change any doctors based on my fiance's insecurities.

My fiance was extremely jealous of both my T and Pdoc for many reasons. I openly express my care and love for my docs, I tell them EVERYTHING, they are strong/smart/independent women who are encouraging me to find my independence, I have people supporting me and he doesn't, and my docs will only talk to him if it's absolutely necessary.

My doctors and I are female and I'm straight, so the insecurity didn't come from a fear of a romantic relationship.

My fiance can be very controlling. He doesn't like all the changes I'm doing and was constantly sabotaging me for most of this last year.

But I told him: "If you allow me to gain my independence and be my own person, you will know that I truly love you for you because it will be MY choice to stay with you instead of staying with you because you manipulated me." It’s true, and he has seemed to let down his guard some and is learning to trust me with my T and Pdoc.

I hope it all works out for you!

[Lauliza]

Thanks everyone for their thoughtful and very helpful comments on a topic I feel like I'm always harping on. I feel a lot better and am glad my gut instinct not to leave my pdoc isn't out of line. It really helps put things in proper perspective.

[Lauliza]

So I told my pdoc that H didn't like it when I go see him and my T, but especially him. He actually laughed and said that it was funny. He said that if H thinks he brainwashed me that he can handle that. I'm doing well so he said he's willing to take the rap for it. Put it in perspective, again.

[growlycat]

I'm glad you are still seeing your pdoc--a good dr is invaluable!!! Your H needs to suck it up and deal with it.