Had a difficult talk - again - with my T yesterday. Therapy cannot help me because I need the impossible - a cure for homosexuality.

I am despondent and have lost all interest in my life. My sexual orientation cannot be changed but it is not for me. I want to lead a normal life. Always have. I have tried for years to fit into the LGBT community but cannot. Finally, a few years ago, I drew the line. That's it. I am not going back. Yes, I am very depressed and am morbid nearly all the time. I have a life that I cannot do anything with. It - I - am useless.

The T thinks this is just one of my downward swings but, frankly, if homosexuality cannot be cured then there is no point in continuing with therapy. I am going to tell him this next session (Monday). I need a cure, PERIOD. There are no other options that will work. I will not waste my time or hold out that therapy can help me anymore. It cannot.

I want to be a self-realized person. I do not want to fake what I do not like. I do not want to spend the rest of my life with people I have little in common with. Just like religion - which I've found to be totally false - so is therapy.

[Asiablue]

I'm not sure what you're looking for from this post. But therapy can't change your sexual orientation it can only help you come to terms with your sexuality or who you are and hopefully see that you are normal and that there is a place for you in the world. I hope you're able to find peace.

[gayleggg]

I don't have any helpful answers, but I just wanted to let you know someone is listening.

[coolibrarian]

What is it, exactly, about being gay, do you abhor? I didn't come out until I was 39, btw.

[anilam]

I think there are still some Ts out there who believe in "curing" homosexuality...
However, maybe it would be more beneficial for you to discuss with your current T why you feel that as a homosexual you can't lead a normal life?

You don't have to be part of the LGBT community just because you are gay. You don't have to be or act a certain way and your sexuality doesn't need to define you or even play a huge role in your life.
Instead of focussing on what you perceive as a negative trait, maybe you and your T can look at the things in your life that you feel positively about. If you work on your self esteem more generally, perhaps you won't be so focussed on your sexuality, which is such a tiny part of who you are as a person.
My T says that 'the whole' is worth so much more than the sum of its parts. He is right - you are so much more than just your sexuality.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

You don't have to be part of the LGBT community just because you are gay. You don't have to be or act a certain way and your sexuality doesn't need to define you or even play a huge role in your life.
Instead of focussing on what you perceive as a negative trait, maybe you and your T can look at the things in your life that you feel positively about. If you work on your self esteem more generally, perhaps you won't be so focussed on your sexuality, which is such a tiny part of who you are as a person.
My T says that 'the whole' is worth so much more than the sum of its parts. He is right - you are so much more than just your sexuality.

I agree with Echos Myron. Your sexuality is only one piece of who you are.

[Lauliza]

I agree with the above. A very dear friend of mine came out as gay at age 42 and is now married 3 years later to his partner. My friend is not invved in the LGB community, and aside from falling in love and marrying a man, his social circle is the same as it was before he came out. This friend had a similar disdain about what he thought it meant to be gay. When he finally came out we (his friebds and family) were so relieved for him. The only difference is that he is at peace. He did go to a therapisr who was great. No pushing of an agenda either way. Instead he questioned his fears and negative attitudes and worked through trauma. Once the got through it, something seemed to click. I think part of it was that he learned that his sexuality doesn't define him. He is who he is and loves who he loves loves. That's it. I really hope you can find some peace.

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

You don't have to be part of the LGBT community just because you are gay. You don't have to be or act a certain way and your sexuality doesn't need to define you or even play a huge role in your life.
Instead of focussing on what you perceive as a negative trait, maybe you and your T can look at the things in your life that you feel positively about. If you work on your self esteem more generally, perhaps you won't be so focussed on your sexuality, which is such a tiny part of who you are as a person.
My T says that 'the whole' is worth so much more than the sum of its parts. He is right - you are so much more than just your sexuality.

Really? Sorry, but my experience has shown that none of the above is true. Even if you don't act gay or have gay friends, people still label and alienate you. You're not able to talk about the intimates in your life - like others talk about their spouses and families - because you have no one. You still encounter prejudice too because others can't tell if you're a practicing gay or not - they just see you as gay.

Sexuality is a HUGE part of one's life and defines you to others who judge accordingly. It affects your spirituality, where you live, whether you're hired and, if so, whether you're promoted and given raises, it's a source of gossip and determines whether people even want you as a friend. No amount of self-esteem can help me deal with being gay. If you were gay, you'd know just how ruthlessly cruel the world can be.

[Arha]

I think the insights and points of view stated above could be very helpful to you.

You say you want to be a self realized person, and also imply that what is holding you back from happiness is that you do not fit the mould that you see for yourself.
In order to be self realized, do you not have to see that such a mould or preconceived idea of what you should be is not helpful?
The word should is not helpful.

I can understand your feelings of rejection of things that you do not like or want to be, but don't throw therapy out with these. Use it to explore why you reject these things. It may be that some things you are rejecting because of misperceptions or misunderstandings. Question everything, including therapy, but be wary of black and white thinking.

I've had decades of therapy of all kinds. None of it has helped. Being gay is just not for me. I hate everything about it.

For years I did volunteer work in the community only to be repeatedly treated badly. It's a community where you have to be good looking or wealthy or a body builder or very sexually active - none of which I am.

I think it's time to stop therapy. It has not worked. I'm old now and am not open to change anymore. Prior attempts to fit in have all failed. I no longer want a partner and don't want to get married - I don't have the skills to handle intimacy. I have never liked gay sex much and am not good at it either. It's obvious that I am going to spend the rest of my life alone without friends. I am too damaged from my childhood. At this point, the only thing that would help would be to be heterosexual. My dream, as long as I can remember, was always to be like everyone else. As I've gotten older, that desire has returned. I don't like being different - never did. My gay experience is much different from people raised in subsequent generations.

[callisto711]

Pretending not to be gay is not going to help you, whether or not you go to therapy. I’m a lesbian and I was in a 3 year relationship with a man who I lived with. It was the most miserable 3 years of my life. I tried to fit into what I thought was “normal” and I did something that made me so unhappy in the process. If you like guys, nothing is gonna change that. It just is. It’s not good, it’s not bad, it just is what it is. You need to accept it because it isn’t going to change.
Yep, the world is full of assholes. It always was, and always will be. People are assholes about everything, race, sexuality, gender. There are some good people in the world, though, and I really think that things are getting better for the gay community. I don’t consider myself an active member of the “community” either, but I am still using the word community because we are a group of people with similar plights.
As far as work goes, my department head at the hospital I work at is flaming gay and so is another manager. They make pretty good money. I think it depends on the field you work in and how good of a worker you are, but it is definitely possible to do well as a gay person. I agree that sexuality is a huge part of who you are, but at the same time, it doesn’t really affect anyone but you, so don’t let it get in the way of your everyday life.
You said you want to be a self-realized person. The best way to do that is to stop hating yourself for something you can’t change and try to be with people who make you happy – who, as it seems, are people of the same gender.

[Petra5ed]

I agree with you that therapy cant change your orientation, and I'm sorry you're wanting to change it so badly. Just a few more thoughts for you to consider... could it be where you live? could it be you just haven't met the right people yet? are you reacting to a religious thing?

Where I live gays and straights get along quite nicely. I'm straight and I've always had close friends who were gay, and who by the way break every gay stereotype there is. Actually I have more gay friends than straight.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with being gay except parts of society are homophobic. Parts of society are also sexist and racist, and some hate one group or another for no apparent reason. But you probably know deep down like I do, there's nothing inherently wrong with being gay. A good fraction of society is gay, always will be, same with other species of animals even. Maybe a therapist could help you to accept yourself more?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by unguy

Really? Sorry, but my experience has shown that none of the above is true. Even if you don't act gay or have gay friends, people still label and alienate you. You're not able to talk about the intimates in your life - like others talk about their spouses and families - because you have no one. You still encounter prejudice too because others can't tell if you're a practicing gay or not - they just see you as gay.

Sexuality is a HUGE part of one's life and defines you to others who judge accordingly. It affects your spirituality, where you live, whether you're hired and, if so, whether you're promoted and given raises, it's a source of gossip and determines whether people even want you as a friend. No amount of self-esteem can help me deal with being gay. If you were gay, you'd know just how ruthlessly cruel the world can be.

I'm gay and this has not been the case for me. Yes, I have experienced moments of prejudice from time to time, but it is not a regular occurrence by any means. From what you write, it seems like what you are really experiencing is internal homophobia. It sounds like you are the one who does not accept yourself and are making assumptions about how others must feel about you. It also appears that, perhaps, when you experience something negative, for any number of reasons, you attribute it to the fact that you are gay-- when that may have nothing to do with it. It sounds like low self-esteem or difficulty socializing may have more to do with how you are feeling and interacting with others than your sexual orientation.

I'm gay, most of the people in my life are straight, and I have no problem talking about the intimacies of my life with my family, friends, and co-workers. When I was younger and just coming out, it did feel a little awkward-- I was unsure how others would respond. But what I learned was that if I was confident and I presented myself matter-of-factly-- like it was no big deal (because it is no big deal!)-- then that is how they responded. They simply followed my lead. I'm gay and I'm a pretty awesome person-- that's what I project and that's how others respond to me. I certainly have not been alienated by family, friends, or co-workers. In fact, in most situations, I'm a pretty central member of the group. Straight friends even seek me out for relationship advice because they think I have a good understanding of relationships, emotions, communication, compromise, etc. None of those things are orientation specific.

The only thing I deal with is having to frequently "come out" to new people because everyone assumes I'm straight until I tell them otherwise. Usually, my disclosure is met with some surprise and then, sometimes, a silly comment like: "but you're too pretty to be gay." Sure, it would be great if everyone were not assumed straight-- or there were not negative associations with "looking" or "acting" gay. Hopefully, those will erode as more and more people realize that they are stereotypes and they can be offensive. But having to deal with those issues is not THAT bad and it certainly doesn't make me feel bad about myself-- or less than-- just because I'm gay. It also doesn't prevent people from wanting to be my friend, nor does it affect my career. In fact, at least in most US states, it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

I think what you probably need is to use therapy to work on accepting yourself and separating out what might be real issues (low self-esteem, trouble relating to others socially, negative thought patterns, anxiety, etc) from perceived problems (being gay)--- because the problem is not that you are gay. The problem is that you seem to have internalized homophobia and you are blaming other problems in your life on being gay.

How you feel is really unfortunate but it is not uncommon. A lot of gay people go through this phase of internal homophobia-- but it is something you can work through. It is also something you need to work through if you ever want to have a healthy relationship and a healthy sense of self-esteem. As a gay person, I can tell you it is absolutely possible! You just need to talk to your therapist about it and do the work. It might be helpful for you to have a gay therapist, also. I do. I find it invaluable to see someone who can relate to me on that level. Perhaps if you saw a gay therapist you would see that there are so many healthy, well-adjusted, happy, intelligent, and successful gay people out there-- and, with some work, you can be one too.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by unguy

At this point, the only thing that would help would be to be heterosexual.

That simply is not true. Simply becoming heterosexual would not change the fact that you are single, have few friends, and struggle with lonliness and self-esteem. Plenty of straight people have those exact problems. You are focusing all of your self-hatred on your sexuality-- but, if your sexuality changed, you would simply focus it on something else. If you want to have deeper connections with other people, you need to work on self-esteem and communication skills. That would help you a lot more than changing your sexual orientation.

If you have not enjoyed being part of the organized gay community, then don't look there for friends or potential partners. Go to places you do enjoy. Participate in hobbies. Meet people at the places you like to go to. Friends are not going to care what your sexual orientation is. With respect to a partner (if you want one), it's a lot easier (at least in my experience) to meet people outside of the "bar scene" or the LGBT community center. I've never particularly enjoyed those venues myself. I've usually met people through friends (even straight friends), through hobby groups, or through online dating (where I list what my interests are).

[Partless]

Originally Posted by unguy

Really? Sorry, but my experience has shown that none of the above is true. Even if you don't act gay or have gay friends, people still label and alienate you. You're not able to talk about the intimates in your life - like others talk about their spouses and families - because you have no one. You still encounter prejudice too because others can't tell if you're a practicing gay or not - they just see you as gay.

Sexuality is a HUGE part of one's life and defines you to others who judge accordingly. It affects your spirituality, where you live, whether you're hired and, if so, whether you're promoted and given raises, it's a source of gossip and determines whether people even want you as a friend. No amount of self-esteem can help me deal with being gay. If you were gay, you'd know just how ruthlessly cruel the world can be.

Originally Posted by unguy

I've had decades of therapy of all kinds. None of it has helped. Being gay is just not for me. I hate everything about it.

For years I did volunteer work in the community only to be repeatedly treated badly. It's a community where you have to be good looking or wealthy or a body builder or very sexually active - none of which I am.

I think it's time to stop therapy. It has not worked. I'm old now and am not open to change anymore. Prior attempts to fit in have all failed. I no longer want a partner and don't want to get married - I don't have the skills to handle intimacy. I have never liked gay sex much and am not good at it either. It's obvious that I am going to spend the rest of my life alone without friends. I am too damaged from my childhood. At this point, the only thing that would help would be to be heterosexual. My dream, as long as I can remember, was always to be like everyone else. As I've gotten older, that desire has returned. I don't like being different - never did. My gay experience is much different from people raised in subsequent generations.

Firstly I don't know if therapy can change sexual orientation, once that orientation has become quite clear. Sometimes people just don't know or experiment, and are mislabeled, then seemingly "change" but in reality they never did change. But in your case it seems that the orientation is quite clear, so that was my first point.

Secondly, I don't know if therapy can change orientation. It may or may not, or perhaps it depends on the individual and strength of their orientation and also how much they do want to change. I don't want to say more on the topic because discussions about changing sexual orientation can get heated and all political. Because obviously many, especially in the past, have been forced to try to change because they were seen as wrong, sinners, perverts, etc, and it's almost impossible to talk about this without at the same time not sounding like you're invalidating the orientation. But in general, I think human beings can change in many ways, both for the better and also for the worse, under the "right" circumstances and if they're willing.

Thirdly, in terms of the issue of stigmatization, I don't know where you live but in many places in US people are much more accepting of the gay lifestyle, and gays in general. It's a crime to harass gay people and many workplaces have strict laws about this, just as they do with sexual harassment or other kinds of bullying. I'm surprised that you've had such awful experiences. Stigmatization is still out there in many shapes and forms of course, I'm not denying that, but your story makes me wonder if there is more to your problems, other than the sexual orientation part, as big part of your identity that is. That perhaps you already felt alienated enough, just that this gay identity being yet another part of yourself that you felt you had to hide to fit in, another reason for people to exclude you?

Which brings me to my last point. Perhaps you live amongst very judgmental or competitive people, where wealth and beauty are the only things that matter, where people look for slightest imperfections, differences, etc, to ridicule and hurt others. Or maybe you have very low self-esteem. Trust me, being hetero does not translate into feeling you belong or fit in. I'm heterosexual and have struggled with fitting in, tremendously. I've gone through long periods when I had very ow self-esteem, no friends, no long term relationships, no girlfriend. I'm also not muscular, I'm not beautiful, and I'm certainly not rich...not even close.

In some communities, amongst some groups, I would have people point at me, day and night. They would gossip about me, they would mock me, they would not see my weakness or pain or misery as reason to offer a helping hand but as opportunity to scapegoat me, kick me where it hurts. At times even animals seem to have more love and care than some people.

But believe it or not, there are places and people who can accept me and accept you, flaws and all. It is because they know they too are not perfect and they don't lie to themselves about it either. But it would require that I open up my circle a bit. That I change my expectations too. Because part of is that I have to be more open towards their differences and their flaws as well. It's a two way street. It may not be as glamorous as other circles I've often wanted to be part of, but here the love and compassion feels more real and more inclusive, and here you can be yourself, whoever you are.

i want to tell you that being gay is absolutely FINE. Its genetic, not a choice, and heck, love is love. You are equal and entitled to love as much as the next person. There isn't really a cure for homosexuality. You are so normal and so valued in this world, you are not weird or different.

Being gay makes me miserable and sad. I rarely smile because there is nothing to be happy about. I don't fit in in the community. I don't like to sleep around or do drugs or smoke or go to discos. I am a day person and do not function well at night when most of the socializing takes place. With every sexual connection, you risk your life. Recently, I met someone who lectured me that to make friends it was important to sleep with people the day you met them because that is how you bond with people. I am not emotionally ready to sleep with anyone the day I met them. Usually, I am not ready for weeks or months and no one wants to wait that long.

I don't have the looks to succeed in the community. I am a mix of ethnicities and don't look like any of them. My head is nearly bald and I'm hairy in all the wrong places. I will be coming into an inheritance soon and will have my teeth straightened and bonded so they are white. Often, I am hit on my people of other races. The sexual interest in them is not there. They don't want to be friends; they want sex. I panic when anyone tries to speak with me. As I suffer from epilepsy, I avoid bars. Leather bars, bath houses, drag queens, sex parties are fine for others but are not for me.

Being gay makes life too complicated and I cannot deal with it. It's a community where I will never fit in. If there is no cure for homosexuality than I'm not going to make it. It's my only hope.

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I think what you probably need is to use therapy to work on accepting yourself and separating out what might be real issues (low self-esteem, trouble relating to others socially, negative thought patterns, anxiety, etc) from perceived problems (being gay)--- because the problem is not that you are gay. The problem is that you seem to have internalized homophobia and you are blaming other problems in your life on being gay.

It's the internalized self-hatred that's destroying you. My therapist was just talking to me about this the other day, saying I'd been brainwashed. My perceptions about myself didn't come from me, but they've been so internalized, they're a seemingly intractable reality. Dealing with self-perception is a large part of the work.

I don't know where you live, or what kind of therapy you've had before, but it would be worth seeking out a therapist with experience in sexual orientation issues.

Unguy, I'm afraid the time has to come when you need to accept, embrace and work with your sexuality. You are gay, like many other people, and that is you. You can fight it all you want, but only self hatred and misery will come out of that. It's just not sustainable, fighting it. Accept it and I think you will feel so much better and more relieved in yourself.

[feralkittymom]

Leather bars, bath houses, drag queens, sex parties are fine for others but are not for me.
I'm a straight woman, but I have a lot of gay friends and none of them are anything like you describe. I don't know where you have gotten your stereotypes from, but they simply don't reflect the diversity of gay culture. Perhaps the question to ask is why you are fixating on such a narrow and, to you, disagreeable part of the culture. You are making a choice to define yourself as reflected by these stereotypes--it's not out of your control to change your viewpoint.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by unguy

Being gay makes me miserable and sad. I rarely smile because there is nothing to be happy about. I don't fit in in the community. I don't like to sleep around or do drugs or smoke or go to discos. I am a day person and do not function well at night when most of the socializing takes place. With every sexual connection, you risk your life. Recently, I met someone who lectured me that to make friends it was important to sleep with people the day you met them because that is how you bond with people. I am not emotionally ready to sleep with anyone the day I met them. Usually, I am not ready for weeks or months and no one wants to wait that long.

I don't have the looks to succeed in the community. I am a mix of ethnicities and don't look like any of them. My head is nearly bald and I'm hairy in all the wrong places. I will be coming into an inheritance soon and will have my teeth straightened and bonded so they are white. Often, I am hit on my people of other races. The sexual interest in them is not there. They don't want to be friends; they want sex. I panic when anyone tries to speak with me. As I suffer from epilepsy, I avoid bars. Leather bars, bath houses, drag queens, sex parties are fine for others but are not for me.

Being gay makes life too complicated and I cannot deal with it. It's a community where I will never fit in. If there is no cure for homosexuality than I'm not going to make it. It's my only hope.

Maybe you should move? Or try finding dates online via some service like Match.com. I'm sure others share your same lifestyle preferences. It might just be the area you live has that kind of culture, but even so I'm sure there are others like you who don't fit in, it seems it's more a matter of how to find them. My close friend is a gay male who isn't into short term hook-ups, night life, or drugs either. He's been in two long term relationships with other nerdy guys, and plans to marry his current one and adopt kids. Of all the gay guys I know more are like my good friend here than the partying hook up guys, I just associate that with us being older now, and it seems the party culture is mostly younger people.

Originally Posted by unguy

Being gay makes me miserable and sad. I rarely smile because there is nothing to be happy about. I don't fit in in the community. I don't like to sleep around or do drugs or smoke or go to discos. I am a day person and do not function well at night when most of the socializing takes place. With every sexual connection, you risk your life. Recently, I met someone who lectured me that to make friends it was important to sleep with people the day you met them because that is how you bond with people. I am not emotionally ready to sleep with anyone the day I met them. Usually, I am not ready for weeks or months and no one wants to wait that long.

I don't have the looks to succeed in the community. I am a mix of ethnicities and don't look like any of them. My head is nearly bald and I'm hairy in all the wrong places. I will be coming into an inheritance soon and will have my teeth straightened and bonded so they are white. Often, I am hit on my people of other races. The sexual interest in them is not there. They don't want to be friends; they want sex. I panic when anyone tries to speak with me. As I suffer from epilepsy, I avoid bars. Leather bars, bath houses, drag queens, sex parties are fine for others but are not for me.

Being gay makes life too complicated and I cannot deal with it. It's a community where I will never fit in. If there is no cure for homosexuality than I'm not going to make it. It's my only hope.

What you describe doesn't isn't at all the lifestyle of any of my gay friends.

[JustShakey]

I don't know Unguy, you seem pretty determined to hate yourself and you've chosen a hellish lifestyle to torture yourself with. Like others have said, most gay people don't live like that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

That is a very specific lifestyle that you're all about hating unguy.... and it's actually not the majority.

The majority of people want a deep relationship with another human being, and don't have sex super casually like you're describing. A lot of people don't spend all of their time at bars and openly fetishized locations.

Sure, lots of people do those things and that's fine, but it is by far not all that defines a gay community.

The thing is, is that you can't always tell by appearances who is gay or straight. You really can't tell unless the other person really wants to show the world who they are. Most people don't introduce themselves based on their sexuality, it's a personal thing and you don't really walk up to someone and go "Hi! I'm X and my orientation is Y!"

You're experiencing a lot of homophobia, and stereotyping. Which is sad because you are depriving yourself of a chance to be happy and comfortable. Therapy isn't going to change your orientation. But it can help you overcome your stereotypes and all the negative things that you believe.

And really, if you don't find gay sex or straight sex to be appealing, who says that you even have to have sex? You can be celibite. You can have a relaionship without having sex right from the start.