[rainbow8]

T said I go into these fantasies about her and we have to get me back on track. I've been doing fine but because of my illness I'm trying to make the relationship with her the main thing. She said she's always been very clear that she can't be my "drug". It's not the goal. The goal is for me to use my self and other people, not her.

She's right. I've wanted all my Ts to be the answer, my drug of choice. I've made therapy about them. T and me.
I want a mother or a relationship, or some of both. She said only I know the answer to why I do this.

So, I have to stop thinking T is more than my T. She's going on a trip with her bf so I will miss next week. Her life shouldn't matter but I'm jealous.

I'm scared about my physical condition. T is trying to help me but is limited. She's looking into chronic pain Ts but I wouldn't have to stop seeing her. I was scared last night. There's some kind of mold in my house and I couldn't breathe right. Slept on a few pillows. I have too many health problems. I have to wait for my insurance to approve Savella.

[Echos Myron redux]

How do you know she is going on a trip with her bf? Did she tell you that? It's all well and good saying it's not about her, when a disclosure like that kind of makes it about her. Especially when you have been so badly triggered around bf stuff with her in the past.
I'm not sure whether or not this is useful to you, but I want to say your feelings about her and the relationship are normal and common; I don't always like your T's mixed messages regarding closeness/distance in the relationship. Please remember there's nothing wrong with the way you feel.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux

How do you know she is going on a trip with her bf? Did she tell you that? It's all well and good saying it's not about her, when a disclosure like that kind of makes it about her. Especially when you have been so badly triggered around bf stuff with her in the past.
I'm not sure whether or not this is useful to you, but I want to say your feelings about her and the relationship are normal and common; I don't always like your T's mixed messages regarding closeness/distance in the relationship. Please remember there's nothing wrong with the way you feel.

Thank you. I knew we had to skip next week. I asked if she was going away. She didn't offer to tell me but answered my question. Then I asked "with HIM?" She said yes. I always ask and she tells me the truth. My T believes in closeness. That's how she does therapy. But she's always kept it professional. We have talked about it for 8 years, how I want it to be about her and it's not. I've done this with Ts whether they disclosed or not.

[rainbow8]

In a way, I realize it is comforting to know that my T cares enough about me and knows me well enough to want me to stay on track. She knows that when I start thinking about her in unhealthy ways it's not good for me. She has always stressed that she's a professional and that I pay her to help me function in my life, and that it's not about her. She's always wanted to hear about my real life supports other than her. Always. Often I fought her on that because I wanted it to be different. But T is my therapist. She sends me love and hugs as my therapist who wants to help me and cares deeply for me. She doesn't require anything back from me except money. She can't BE the solution. She can only help me FIND solutions and listen to me. I know this intellectually and have always known it. Accepting it emotionally is what is so very difficult.

[rainbow8]

Thanks, LT, for always reading my posts and sending hugs. I appreciate that more than you can know.

[JaneTennison1]

I believe this T wants the best for you. Sometimes it reads like she indulges in the fantasy a little and I'm glad she keeps the focus on helping you.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

I believe this T wants the best for you. Sometimes it reads like she indulges in the fantasy a little and I'm glad she keeps the focus on helping you.

Thanks. Maybe it reads that way but it's just her warm, open style. She's never, to my knowledge, indulged the fantasy. I wish she had, sort of.

I want to point to the fact that you have some self awareness that the closeness you yearn for is perhaps not appropriate. I really commend you for this; that you know this is something to work on. I agree with a poster above though that your therapist isn't taking on a 'hands off' approach to your therapy. Disclosing her personal life to you only feeds that sense of closeness you feel you require. I would raise this point with her soon. Tell her that you are in fact troubled by the mixed messages.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by justafriend306

I want to point to the fact that you have some self awareness that the closeness you yearn for is perhaps not appropriate. I really commend you for this; that you know this is something to work on. I agree with a poster above though that your therapist isn't taking on a 'hands off' approach to your therapy. Disclosing her personal life to you only feeds that sense of closeness you feel you require. I would raise this point with her soon. Tell her that you are in fact troubled by the mixed messages.

I press her for the information. Is it better if she says "I won't tell you?" She wouldn't tell me her bf's last name. I searched endlessly for it because she wouldn't tell me. I don't remember how I knew she had a bf but I know I asked her. She only discloses when I ask her. My other Ts did or didn't disclose. I searched for information and drove past their houses anyway.

She never told me anything about her ex husband. I guessed that they were getting a divorce.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thanks, LT, for always reading my posts and sending hugs. I appreciate that more than you can know.

Aw, thanks!

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

In a way, I realize it is comforting to know that my T cares enough about me and knows me well enough to want me to stay on track. She knows that when I start thinking about her in unhealthy ways it's not good for me. She has always stressed that she's a professional and that I pay her to help me function in my life, and that it's not about her. She's always wanted to hear about my real life supports other than her. Always. Often I fought her on that because I wanted it to be different. But T is my therapist. She sends me love and hugs as my therapist who wants to help me and cares deeply for me. She doesn't require anything back from me except money. She can't BE the solution. She can only help me FIND solutions and listen to me. I know this intellectually and have always known it. Accepting it emotionally is what is so very difficult.

I feel like this is what my T has been trying to do as well. He's said a few times that he doesn't want me to end up on the same dependent/needy path (I'm not saying you're this way! speaking for myself here) I was on with ex-MC. And I think he struggles at times with how to allow me to talk about whatever connection or transference I have for him and how to be there for me and support me without leading me down that same path. He's trying to focus on my strengthening my outside-therapy relationships and feeling more confident and connected in them rather than becoming dependent on him. Which on a cognitive level, I respect and very much appreciate. But then on a more emotional, less rational level, it's like, "But why can't I just depend on you?"

So it sounds much like you, in trying to reconcile the emotional and more logical sides. I think both of our T's have our best interests at heart. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt sometimes.

[Mully]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I feel like this is what my T has been trying to do as well. He's said a few times that he doesn't want me to end up on the same dependent/needy path (I'm not saying you're this way! speaking for myself here) I was on with ex-MC. And I think he struggles at times with how to allow me to talk about whatever connection or transference I have for him and how to be there for me and support me without leading me down that same path. He's trying to focus on my strengthening my outside-therapy relationships and feeling more confident and connected in them rather than becoming dependent on him. Which on a cognitive level, I respect and very much appreciate. But then on a more emotional, less rational level, it's like, "But why can't I just depend on you?"

So it sounds much like you, in trying to reconcile the emotional and more logical sides. I think both of our T's have our best interests at heart. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt sometimes.

Yes! I can relate to so much of Rainbow and your post here, LT. I think what LT is written here is so powerful because it is so true. I know for me, I definitely feel on a somewhat unconscious level “but why can’t you save me?” and feel like if only she met my needs that my life would be magically better. The truth is that she just can’t. It’s a sad reality to face but it’s true. She can help me see what I need to find in my “real” life, and help me learn new skills of interacting with people, and also maybe help me mourn the things I needed but didn’t get, but as she’s told me many times as I’ve eye rolled internally that she doesn’t have a magic wand to make my feelings get better or go away. I have to keep working through them.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I feel like this is what my T has been trying to do as well. He's said a few times that he doesn't want me to end up on the same dependent/needy path (I'm not saying you're this way! speaking for myself here) I was on with ex-MC. And I think he struggles at times with how to allow me to talk about whatever connection or transference I have for him and how to be there for me and support me without leading me down that same path. He's trying to focus on my strengthening my outside-therapy relationships and feeling more confident and connected in them rather than becoming dependent on him. Which on a cognitive level, I respect and very much appreciate. But then on a more emotional, less rational level, it's like, "But why can't I just depend on you?"

So it sounds much like you, in trying to reconcile the emotional and more logical sides. I think both of our T's have our best interests at heart. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt sometimes.

Oh, LT. You already know that our struggles with Ts are very similar. I agree with everything you've just written. I ask T "why not" too. Her answer is because I'm paying her to help me, not for her to be the answer. We know that Ts generally do not befriend their clients. Yes, there are exceptions. Their role is to help us with our connections in our lives outside of therapy. I understand that but it hurts. Hurts because it SEEMS so perfect with T. But it's not. We pay and it's their job. I know my T cares about me but not the same way I care about her. I have had this pattern for most of my life. I want the intimacy, the love, the connection with T. I have something like it with one friend. I don't know why that's not enough. It's sad to want it with T. I know it's related to my mother too. And probably my marriage. I wanted To to be everything to me though I always knew the truth.

[Longingforhome]

Rainbow, can I ask, do you actually actively fantasize about your T when you aren’t not together, or is it more like she sees you interacting with her as a fantasy version of her? My T had said the same sort of thing.

I’ve often used day dreams about him for comfort, something I haven’t done since the last time I was in therapy, many years ago. I don’t know whether it’s a good thing, because it does bring me some comfort (but not without a decent dose of self hatred and anger at myself for doing it), but I wonder if it also stops me finding that in real life. I try to stop myself, but sometimes it’s all there is to calm me down if I don’t want to go the actual (prescription) drug route.

Then again, I don’t WANT my real life relationships to be solely focused on taking care of me. That’s not what grown up relationships are about. I also wonder if this comfort hunger would even exist if it wasn’t activated in a care relationship, or does it all just go underground between attachment figures - sometimes for many years at a time?

I’d really like to understand more about this, and it seems like you are in a similar place, albeit, a more open and honest one. I can’t even begin to talk with my T about this.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Mully

Yes! I can relate to so much of Rainbow and your post here, LT. I think what LT is written here is so powerful because it is so true. I know for me, I definitely feel on a somewhat unconscious level “but why can’t you save me?” and feel like if only she met my needs that my life would be magically better. The truth is that she just can’t. It’s a sad reality to face but it’s true. She can help me see what I need to find in my “real” life, and help me learn new skills of interacting with people, and also maybe help me mourn the things I needed but didn’t get, but as she’s told me many times as I’ve eye rolled internally that she doesn’t have a magic wand to make my feelings get better or go away. I have to keep working through them.

I understand, Mully. Our Ts wouldn't be doing their jobs if they met all of our needs. They meet our needs for someone to hear us and try to help us to help ourselves. It's bittersweet for those of us who wish with all our hearts that our Ts could be the one to fulfill our needs.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Longingforhome

Rainbow, can I ask, do you actually actively fantasize about your T when you aren’t not together, or is it more like she sees you interacting with her as a fantasy version of her? My T had said the same sort of thing.

I’ve often used day dreams about him for comfort, something I haven’t done since the last time I was in therapy, many years ago. I don’t know whether it’s a good thing, because it does bring me some comfort (but not without a decent dose of self hatred and anger at myself for doing it), but I wonder if it also stops me finding that in real life. I try to stop myself, but sometimes it’s all there is to calm me down if I don’t want to go the actual (prescription) drug route.

Then again, I don’t WANT my real life relationships to be solely focused on taking care of me. That’s not what grown up relationships are about. I also wonder if this comfort hunger would even exist if it wasn’t activated in a care relationship, or does it all just go underground between attachment figures - sometimes for many years at a time?

I’d really like to understand more about this, and it seems like you are in a similar place, albeit, a more open and honest one. I can’t even begin to talk with my T about this.

I don't actively fantasize about T. I just think that our relationship is more than it is. I'm not sure if that's fantasizing or not. For example, I make it more special that we both paint. Or that we both lost our husbands, though in different ways. I used to think about being in her family. I take our relationship father than it is. That's what T means, I think. Like we texted a few times because she had to change a session last minute. I thought, oh boy, T and I are texting! That's so nice! I asked if we could text instead of email and she gave me an emphatic NO.

My pattern seems to have gone underground when I was happiest, like in college. But there was usually an unavailable person in my life.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I feel like this is what my T has been trying to do as well. He's said a few times that he doesn't want me to end up on the same dependent/needy path (I'm not saying you're this way! speaking for myself here) I was on with ex-MC. And I think he struggles at times with how to allow me to talk about whatever connection or transference I have for him and how to be there for me and support me without leading me down that same path. He's trying to focus on my strengthening my outside-therapy relationships and feeling more confident and connected in them rather than becoming dependent on him. Which on a cognitive level, I respect and very much appreciate. But then on a more emotional, less rational level, it's like, "But why can't I just depend on you?"

So it sounds much like you, in trying to reconcile the emotional and more logical sides. I think both of our T's have our best interests at heart. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to hurt sometimes.

I add myself to this too. I want my T to be Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting or a writer I love come to life. He will have none of it. I have plenty of real life support, but perversely I don't want it- I just want T and only T. The more I feel like that, the more he says things like I am just a guy bumbling around here or there's nothing for your BF to worry about since I am a Dr you are a patient getting treatment , and the part that feels personal is artificial, a case of both of us playing pretend so we can thoroughly go over the Crime Scene and you can integrate it with my help. Yes, of course I know that is fine and that is right. However it is NOT fine lol. I want him to keep me in mind and care about me genuinely, authentically. If I said that I guarantee he would say I keep you in mind when you are here genuinely, and that is that, those are the rules, they are for your benefit not mine.

[Anne2.0]

What resonates with me even though I don't have similar fantasies is that part of the value of therapy is having a conversational partner who I can discuss intimate and important things to me. I've been widowed longer than you, but I still miss having intimate conversations with him; my T was always better at meeting this "discussion" need of course because it was all focused on me.

It seems normal to me that in times of crisis this relationship need would reappear, even though you've made a lot of progress in the past. It seems like your physical condition has impacted your ability to be social and engage in other ways with people. Like craving comfort food, your relationship with your T is a kind of craving when things are difficult.

I hope everything improves for you soon.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

We have talked about it for 8 years, how I want it to be about her and it's not. I've done this with Ts whether they disclosed or not.

Have you done this too in personal relationships to just in therapy?

Do you think occupying your mind with T has a payoff? What would you think about instead if you got that time back?

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I press her for the information. Is it better if she says "I won't tell you?" She wouldn't tell me her bf's last name. I searched endlessly for it because she wouldn't tell me. I don't remember how I knew she had a bf but I know I asked her. She only discloses when I ask her. My other Ts did or didn't disclose. I searched for information and drove past their houses anyway.

She never told me anything about her ex husband. I guessed that they were getting a divorce.

One more set of questions, bc I really want to know the answers. What triggers you to drive by their houses, and how does it feel when you do it? Is it like thrill-seeking, a daring adventure? Is it like payback or revenge for all they won't tell and give? Is it like knowing where the house is and what it looks like is a huge transitional object, a source of comfort?

I am the polar opposite and don't understand that either. My insurance company billed me with T's home address, and now I will go to any lengths to avoid that whole town. When I have to go there for inescapable reasons, I dread running into him and I feel that I have to cede him the whole town, like it is his now. It 's very weird . I would also feel invaded if I ran into him in my little suburb town.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

I add myself to this too. I want my T to be Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting or a writer I love come to life. He will have none of it. I have plenty of real life support, but perversely I don't want it- I just want T and only T. The more I feel like that, the more he says things like I am just a guy bumbling around here or there's nothing for your BF to worry about since I am a Dr you are a patient getting treatment , and the part that feels personal is artificial, a case of both of us playing pretend so we can thoroughly go over the Crime Scene and you can integrate it with my help. Yes, of course I know that is fine and that is right. However it is NOT fine lol. I want him to keep me in mind and care about me genuinely, authentically. If I said that I guarantee he would say I keep you in mind when you are here genuinely, and that is that, those are the rules, they are for your benefit not mine.

Yeah, it sucks! But they ARE genuinely trying to help us. I always say it's like Pinocchio. I want it to be a really real relationship, not a "wooden puppet" pretend one.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

One more set of questions, bc I really want to know the answers. What triggers you to drive by their houses, and how does it feel when you do it? Is it like thrill-seeking, a daring adventure? Is it like payback or revenge for all they won't tell and give? Is it like knowing where the house is and what it looks like is a huge transitional object, a source of comfort?

I am the polar opposite and don't understand that either. My insurance company billed me with T's home address, and now I will go to any lengths to avoid that whole town. When I have to go there for inescapable reasons, I dread running into him and I feel that I have to cede him the whole town, like it is his now. It 's very weird . I would also feel invaded if I ran into him in my little suburb town.

No, I only drove by each house once so I could know where they live. Not for thrills or revenge. I'd have to say it was for comfort, and also to feel closer to them. I think it's part of the whole fantasy!! If I know where they live, it's more like a real relationship. I think that makes more sense than wanting comfort, now that I think about it.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

What resonates with me even though I don't have similar fantasies is that part of the value of therapy is having a conversational partner who I can discuss intimate and important things to me. I've been widowed longer than you, but I still miss having intimate conversations with him; my T was always better at meeting this "discussion" need of course because it was all focused on me.

It seems normal to me that in times of crisis this relationship need would reappear, even though you've made a lot of progress in the past. It seems like your physical condition has impacted your ability to be social and engage in other ways with people. Like craving comfort food, your relationship with your T is a kind of craving when things are difficult.

I hope everything improves for you soon.

Thank you for your good wishes, Anne. Yes, I think that's why I want T more. I don't have anyone taking care of me at home and I'm scared.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

Have you done this too in personal relationships to just in therapy?

Do you think occupying your mind with T has a payoff? What would you think about instead if you got that time back?

I've been "in love" with unavailable men. Right now I think about how scared and in pain I am. In the past, I thought about wishing I had a more fulfilling relationship with my husband. I mean that's probably why I want T so much.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

One more set of questions, bc I really want to know the answers. What triggers you to drive by their houses, and how does it feel when you do it? Is it like thrill-seeking, a daring adventure? Is it like payback or revenge for all they won't tell and give? Is it like knowing where the house is and what it looks like is a huge transitional object, a source of comfort?

I am the polar opposite and don't understand that either. My insurance company billed me with T's home address, and now I will go to any lengths to avoid that whole town. When I have to go there for inescapable reasons, I dread running into him and I feel that I have to cede him the whole town, like it is his now. It 's very weird . I would also feel invaded if I ran into him in my little suburb town.

I can't answer this question for T (or ex-T or ex-MC) because I don't know where his house is. But with the high school teacher for whom I had transference...I did know where his house was, because he was listed in the phone book (yeah, I'm old!) It was kind of on my way back from my high school job (very slight detour), and I never drove onto his actual street, but could see his house from the street I was on. It gave me comfort to see his lights on, his car in the driveway (I'd seen him get into his car at school, so I knew it was his). It was like confirmation that he still existed.

I felt similar reactions when I saw ex-MC's car in the parking lot when I went to see ex-T (I'd see ex-MC get into and out of his car multiple times, so I knew which one it was--plus it was a small parking lot!) Or if I saw his door closed (he'd keep it closed if in session--if he was out of the office, he'd have it open with his light off) when I went to see her. It was like, "Good, you still exist and are presumably OK." So for me, comfort.