Projection.....

Okey Dokey... This could be a rough one for me as it involves true confession... oi vey.

I have been accused (and probably rightfully sometimes) of projecting what I am feeling on others. Now ... what can people tell me about this or would anyone like to confess anything?? Misery likes miserable company you know.

I think that there are times that I am rather pointed in my beliefs and am accused of projecting my feelings... but this is so frustrating. It seems to make me wonder and gives my thoughts less credibility somehow. This is quite emotion provoking sometimes.

What do you know and what would you like to share. If you have this concern.... how do you keep a lid on it and how can you know that your accusations (oi vey) are accurate?

I guess self-awareness is a good start.

Would you be able to give an example so that we (I) have something concrete to think about and respond to?

What's oi vey?

Yes self awareness is important... and that is the primary tool.

Oi vey... Well when looking it up to try to explain it ... one of the explanations was OH MY... That will work..but it is like more of an OH MY GOODNESS or to me an embarrassment.

Recently I accused someone of being angry with me... (and I still contend that) but she said that actually I was angry (and I was...) but that I had projected my emotions on her.

I think that it would also be accurate to say... well that person does not like me... when actually I do not (at that time) like myself.

Those are a couple of examples...

Ah yes, now I get it. I guess it takes self-awareness on both ends. That you are aware of your own anger, that is only part of the equation. The other half of the equation is the other person's ability to be self-aware. If she is angry and is not aware of it....and therefore doesn't own up to it....that's when self-doubt sets in.....am I projecting my own anger onto her????

Do you trust her to be honest with herself, to be honest about whether or not she is angry at you?

About the other person not liking you....it could be a reality, and it could be a projection of yourself not liking yourself. Do you not like yourself?

Scratching my head.

Been doing better lately but sometimes no.... That would be why I am here.... and in therapy in the first place.

I do not really wish to get personal though on these particular matters

This is a more general question...

Maybe I am uncomfortable... yup.... projection does that to me.

Okay, been thinking about projection and what my understand of it is.....

I think of projection as an image or feeling that is sent forth>>>>>>>to a blank screen or receptacle. The simplest example is a movie projector, where the screen is the receiver.

My personal experience with projection follows: Last week, I was talking to T about these fears I had as a child and how I used to lay in bed terrified for hours because I thought there was a man with a hat standing in the corner of the room. In reality, it was a telescope my brother had but as soon as it became dark I thought it was a man and was soooooo frightened. T said that because I had been abused and neglected by the men in my life i projected my fears into the corner or the room.......

So, I would imagine that we all project at times. I know i do. It seems like a natural thing to do, that our unconscious directs. I don't believe that it makes one's thoughts more or less credible, it just is.

For your friend to suggest you were projecting your anger but to acknowledge that she was angry too doesn't quite make a lot of sense to me. If she is angry on her own, then how does she become the screen for your anger? Your anger is your anger. If you are expressing your anger toward her, then that doesn't seem like projection. It just seems like you are expressing your anger. I would think that in order for her to be projected upon she must be a willing participant in the exchange--consciously or unconsciously. It sounds like she doesn't want to own HER anger and so is caling it your projection.

It sounds passive agressive to me.....If she says you are projecting, then she doesn't have to take responsibility for her feelnings. Therefore, naturally, yours are diluted because now two people are sharing the same set of feelings.

Hmmmmm. I hope this makes sense.

My T says--your feelings are your feelings. (LOL, he's so wise)



Be good to yourself.

SecretGarden, I think just being aware of it can help. For example, when you are talking with someone and ready to give a response to their situation, perhaps just pause to see if you are genuinely responding to what they have shared with you or if you are projecting something on them that you are feeling from another situation.

I feel that recently I have been the recipient of projection from many people in relation to my marriage/divorce. It is hard to tell friends and family about the problems in my marriage and that we are headed toward divorce because immediately people start projecting their crap onto me from their own failed relationships. If they were in a bad situation in the past, they right away start calling my husband a creep and urge me to take him to the bank for all that he is worth in the divorce settlement. That is not what I am about at all. And it wounds me to have people immediately react that way to my situation. When my husband and I began openly talking about divorce just recently, my advice to him was do not ask advice from people who have been divorced, because they will try to turn your situation into the negative one that they went through.

A way that I project onto people right here on PC is based on my own psychotherapy experience. For example, I feel the client should determine the course of each session, choosing the topic, etc., and I am strongly advocating for that all the time, perhaps too strongly! I need to realize that in some therapeutic approaches, this is not the way it goes and the T is more directive, and I need to not post so strongly that it seems like any other way is "wrong." I need to work on that!

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sister said:
Okay, been thinking about projection and what my understand of it is.....

I think of projection as an image or feeling that is sent forth>>>>>>>to a blank screen or receptacle. The simplest example is a movie projector, where the screen is the receiver.

My personal experience with projection follows: Last week, I was talking to T about these fears I had as a child and how I used to lay in bed terrified for hours because I thought there was a man with a hat standing in the corner of the room. In reality, it was a telescope my brother had but as soon as it became dark I thought it was a man and was soooooo frightened. T said that because I had been abused and neglected by the men in my life i projected my fears into the corner or the room.......

So, I would imagine that we all project at times. I know i do. It seems like a natural thing to do, that our unconscious directs. I don't believe that it makes one's thoughts more or less credible, it just is.

For your friend to suggest you were projecting your anger but to acknowledge that she was angry too doesn't quite make a lot of sense to me. If she is angry on her own, then how does she become the screen for your anger? Your anger is your anger. If you are expressing your anger toward her, then that doesn't seem like projection. It just seems like you are expressing your anger. I would think that in order for her to be projected upon she must be a willing participant in the exchange--consciously or unconsciously. It sounds like she doesn't want to own HER anger and so is caling it your projection.

It sounds passive agressive to me.....If she says you are projecting, then she doesn't have to take responsibility for her feelnings. Therefore, naturally, yours are diluted because now two people are sharing the same set of feelings.

Hmmmmm. I hope this makes sense.

My T says--your feelings are your feelings. (LOL, he's so wise)



Be good to yourself.

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I like the idea that my feelings are my feelings but unfortunately I have had others say that are inaccurate in terms of what I am thinking. So if indeed if I am projecting ... what is the role of that ... the pain or not being able to handle the emotions or take responsibility of them myself? How embarrassing.

Sometimes I do feel there is a bit of denial on the receivers part such as the above situation and I stood by my feelings until the other person recognized that she was angry (too). I did not accept the projection argument though I considered it and forged ahead until she admitted to the strong emotions as well.

Your concept of a blank screen is accurate when there is projection involved or it is what I make the screen...or whoever.

You said....."I would think that in order for her to be projected upon she must be a willing participant in the exchange--consciously or unconsciously."

Can you expand on this?

You correctly said......"It sounds like she doesn't want to own HER anger and so is caling it your projection."

I told her by some other means...that she indeed was not taking responsibility and was being passive aggressive.

Projection is something that seems to come up or I am accused of it so I was wishing to look further at it.

Thank you.

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I like the idea that my feelings are my feelings but unfortunately I have had others say that are inaccurate in terms of what I am thinking. So if indeed if I am projecting ... what is the role of that ... the pain or not being able to handle the emotions or take responsibility of them myself? How embarrassing.

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Secret, I don't understand this. Do you mean tht people respond in a way so you know that what you said doesn't match what you are thinking? If so I get that. It happens to me also, a lot. But I don't think of that as projection. Projection may result but that's a mistmach between word and thought, or feeling and word.

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You said....."I would think that in order for her to be projected upon she must be a willing participant in the exchange--consciously or unconsciously."

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Well, what I mean is that she is not a screen or a corner of a room. She is a human and I think that when someone sends some stuff our way we can either reject or receive. Sometimes we receive unwittingly or unwillingly but receive nonetheless. It's not always a concscious action.

I think that in any interaction between people, it takes two to tango.

Maybe what happens is when you project and people reject the project they call you on it? However, it doesn't sound like that is the case in this particular interaction.

Peace

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sunrise said:
SecretGarden, I think just being aware of it can help. For example, when you are talking with someone and ready to give a response to their situation, perhaps just pause to see if you are genuinely responding to what they have shared with you or if you are projecting something on them that you are feeling from another situation.

I feel that recently I have been the recipient of projection from many people in relation to my marriage/divorce. It is hard to tell friends and family about the problems in my marriage and that we are headed toward divorce because immediately people start projecting their crap onto me from their own failed relationships. If they were in a bad situation in the past, they right away start calling my husband a creep and urge me to take him to the bank for all that he is worth in the divorce settlement. That is not what I am about at all. And it wounds me to have people immediately react that way to my situation. When my husband and I began openly talking about divorce just recently, my advice to him was do not ask advice from people who have been divorced, because they will try to turn your situation into the negative one that they went through.

A way that I project onto people right here on PC is based on my own psychotherapy experience. For example, I feel the client should determine the course of each session, choosing the topic, etc., and I am strongly advocating for that all the time, perhaps too strongly! I need to realize that in some therapeutic approaches, this is not the way it goes and the T is more directive, and I need to not post so strongly that it seems like any other way is "wrong." I need to work on that!

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Sunrise your post resonated with me in several ways.

I do think it is important for me to be aware of what is happening and your thoughts are valid. Sometimes particularly when things are heated it is hard to take a step back but ... that would be a goal in my life anyway so doing that is a great idea.

I was talking to someone last week about a situation at work and how I handled it wanting to just verify that it seemed like I handled the situation o.k.. I was standing up for myself in a peaceful and diplomatic way but standing up for myself. The next day the person I was talking to asked about how things were with the biatch.... and I responded that things were well with my friend and that we had talked at length positively the next day. The assumption was that I thought she was a ***** which was way way far from my intention. I was just checking on ME.

I understand the projection you speak of here as well when talking to people in general about what is going on with them. I do try to check in and be aware that it is their situation and all situations do differ. I feel that that is a strength but it is not always easy to follow when emotions are deep on a topic.

I agree with your PC observation as well. People have varied therapies and they often are productive. We can not speak to where people are in their therapy or what they may need. Again, often that is determined my an ear and insight and ultimately not projection of our own needs. Not easy indeed. That also includes what people chose to share here. The whole story may be here or things may be missing or ..... etc...

Thanks for your response.

i'm not sure i understand "projection" entirely. what is "projection"? I have used the term myself...but moreso thought it was similar to transference.

my Therapist used to say something to the effect: "you can't make people upset or angry or hurt....they get upset or angry or upset because of something in them." she may have been more refering to me as a 16 year old relating to older people...or just me in general as a child relating to my parents or other parental figures.

Just a thought:

Through the process of individuation (took a few years of therapy, and seeing how my t allowed for our separateness), I have been doing a lot less projection. Growing in self-awareness, identity, and ownership of my emotions/thoughts, etc. allows me to project less. I have learned to ask the other person about her/his own experience, as opposed to projecting my own ideas...

Yet I am still offering my opinions, when asked I don't consider that projection.

Scratching my head....looking for an example to illustrate my point....hm....I'll keep thinking....

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Ipse_Dixit said:
i'm not sure i understand "projection" entirely. what is "projection"? I have used the term myself...but moreso thought it was similar to transference.

my Therapist used to say something to the effect: "you can't make people upset or angry or hurt....they get upset or angry or upset because of something in them." she may have been more refering to me as a 16 year old relating to older people...or just me in general as a child relating to my parents or other parental figures.

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Hi there Ipse... Thanks for your response.... I do not think that projection is involved in your situation but I am unsure...

I think that as we mature we realise that .... and this is big... it is our choice to feel as we do... (I am still not always good at this) but it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. No one can make you feel any way and you likewise should not be able to make others feel a certain way. That is not always easy and it does not mean you can run roughshod over someone.

I think that a fine example of this is some of the posts here about people being angry at their T's and letting them have it. The T recognises the anger for what it is... perhaps transference or perhaps a really bad day.

The hope is that with increased therapy, insight and strength that we can be independent in thought and be responsible for your own feelings... and not others or even thinking that someone else caused you to feel so and so.

It is one of those things that is progressive and something we learn bit by bit.

Hmmmmm..... there are some similarities... but I do not think the same thing.

Transference is when you, for instance, get mad at your T or someone because they remind you of someone else from your past or now even that has made you angry. In my case I had a transference with my T on things about him that reminded me of my dad that were not pleasant. So, I could work through my emotions toward my dad through my therapist/pdoc.

Transference can be many things and also can be positive or negative emotions or healthy or not healthy.

Projection ... which I am asking about so I am trying to learn more is a matter of projecting feelings or emotions. I may project or accuse or make note of someone feeling a certain way and actually those are my feelings that I have said someone else has. This is what I want to know more about. Will respond more to Sister's post as I get my thoughts together... or questions. :-)

Hope that makes sense.

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withit said:
Through the process of individuation (took a few years of therapy, and seeing how my t allowed for our separateness), I have been doing a lot less projection. Growing in self-awareness, identity, and ownership of my emotions/thoughts, etc. allows me to project less. I have learned to ask the other person about her/his own experience, as opposed to projecting my own ideas...

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Thank you for this thought. This has validity... Really....

I think RESPECT is an important word when we talk about projection. When projection happens in therapy that's ok. Hopefully the therapist is skilled enought to call us on our projection and help us work through it. But when it happens irl it takes an awful lot of self-awareness to be able to respect the other person's experience and allow her/him to take responsibility for it.

I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone was to tell me I'm projecting my own anger onto her. There's a whiff of disrespect there. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Thank you.... That made total sense...

Now... what if you decided to fill in her blank (need for tears) with one of those options. Why would that happen. Would you have been fulfilling a need withinn yourself? It could be valid or not and without her telling you....as you said... you would not know.

What is the purpose of making an assumption (if you had) ...

You were able to not do that as you had kept yourself and her experience separate. I commend you on being able to do that.

Would it have been painful if you had assumed and would you be avoiding that pain. ... really stretching it here... Just interested in this. No need to respond really. I just ask. These are the questions I think of.

Need I say....I know you are not asking for this... not projecting this desire but I am sorry to hear what you are going through. I wish you the best or wish you peace which would be my hope.

Thanks for sharing.

Um...felt a need to edit it....confidentiality reasons...

You ask what is the purpose of making an assumption? For me right then and there there was no need. Therefore I did not make assumptions.

Yes, I think I kept our experiences separate and I am glad I was able to do that.

You ask, ''would it have been painful if you had assumed and would you be avoiding that pain...really stretching it here..'' I am interested in what you mean by assuming and thus avoiding the pain. I'm not getting it. Coudl you explain in other words?

Oh, and thanks for your best wishes. Doesn't smack of projection....lol...

No prob with the edit... I understand.

I was not saying you were doing any of these things... I was asking alot of "what if" kind of questions to try to determine why one needs to / or does ... what they do... not necessarily speaking of you but of the possibilities.

Well it is off the projection trail I suppose but ... you are keeping your emotions separate... partially because you were there to do the work on your daughter... not yourself. BUT... I wonder if you did not allow yourself to project or to feel the possibilities as that could indeed be painful... It would also take away from your daughter.

I think what I was saying is that while yes indeed there were all these possibilities....I wasn't going to assume which of them was the reason for her tears.

The real reason I wasn't going to assume...is because only she can define herself. By assuming I am defining her experience. Only she can define her experience. She knows the reason for her tears. Yet she chose not to put it out in the open. I can respect that. Probably because I have learned to respect myself. I see her as separate. Imposing my assumptions would be an invasion of her psychic space.

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sister said:
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I like the idea that my feelings are my feelings but unfortunately I have had others say that are inaccurate in terms of what I am thinking. So if indeed if I am projecting ... what is the role of that ... the pain or not being able to handle the emotions or take responsibility of them myself? How embarrassing.

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Secret, I don't understand this. Do you mean tht people respond in a way so you know that what you said doesn't match what you are thinking? If so I get that. It happens to me also, a lot. But I don't think of that as projection. Projection may result but that's a mistmach between word and thought, or feeling and word.

*****It is a mismatch between my word (perception of their thought) and their actual thoughts.

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You said....."I would think that in order for her to be projected upon she must be a willing participant in the exchange--consciously or unconsciously."

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Well, what I mean is that she is not a screen or a corner of a room. She is a human and I think that when someone sends some stuff our way we can either reject or receive. Sometimes we receive unwittingly or unwillingly but receive nonetheless. It's not always a concscious action.

******true...

I think that in any interaction between people, it takes two to tango.

Maybe what happens is when you project and people reject the project they call you on it? However, it doesn't sound like that is the case in this particular interaction.

******* yes not with this particular interaction....

Peace

***** thanks..... :-)

Still much to think about but thank you so much....

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withit said:
I think what I was saying is that while yes indeed there were all these possibilities....I wasn't going to assume which of them was the reason for her tears.

The real reason I wasn't going to assume...is because only she can define herself. By assuming I am defining her experience. Only she can define her experience. She knows the reason for her tears. Yet she chose not to put it out in the open. I can respect that. Probably because I have learned to respect myself. I see her as separate. Imposing my assumptions would be an invasion of her psychic space.

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That is nice.

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SecretGarden said:

Transference is when you, for instance, get mad at your T or someone because they remind you of someone else from your past or now even that has made you angry.

Projection ... which I am asking about so I am trying to learn more is a matter of projecting feelings or emotions. I may project or accuse or make note of someone feeling a certain way and actually those are my feelings that I have said someone else has.

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I understand better now the difference between transference and projection. Thanks, SG. I think the two examples I gave earlier in this thread are both not projection then, by your definition. They would be transference.

hey. i struggle a lot with figuring out how i feel. quite a lot. if someone tells me i'm projecting i guess i'm not sure whether they are in denial about their feelings (hence they are guilty of projecting!) or whether i am... is it me... is it them... it can be so jolly hard to figure it out...

one thing i try and do... is notice when i think that someone is having a strong emotional response to me (or notice when i think someone is viewing me in a certain way). then... have a think about whether it might be that i feel that way about them, or view them in that way. sometimes... that just kind of seems to fit. so... i guess i'm projecting. othertimes it doesn't seem to fit... so not quite sure what to make of that.

one thing that i do quite a lot... is 'provoke' others into projective identification. it goes a little like this... i think someone is mad at me. they don't act mad at me but i'm sure they are really. i'll do things... that prompt / provoke them to feel mad with me. then they express their anger and see! i tell you! i knew they were angry at me all along! it is kind of safe for me... because my past experience with my mother was that things were unsafe 'cause she could blow her stack at any minute. if i prompted / provoked her to blow her stack, however, then i could relax for a half day or a day 'cause it took her some time to recouperate.

does that make sense?

i guess that people tend to do the projection / prompt the projective identification thing for certain kinds of perceptions / feelings. if you can identify some of the feelings / perceptions that you tend to project onto others then when you think others are having certain feelings / perceptions about you then that might be a cue for you to stop and think a little about what is going on.

it really can be jolly hard to figure it out.

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I understand better now the difference between transference and projection. Thanks, SG. I think the two examples I gave earlier in this thread are both not projection then, by your definition. They would be transference.

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After rereading your post I would say the first would be transference and the second would be projection.... but there is a fine line. ?

PROJECTION

Projection is a process by which the person experiences something within himself as being outside or coming from outside towards him. Thus, in dreams and hallucinations the person projects, sees, hears, senses things in the outside world, while in reality all of it comes from inside.

In the psychoanalytic sense projection is a defence mechanism, an unconscious psychic operation whereby qualities, feelings, wishes, and so on, which the person refuses to recognise or to accept in himself, are expelled from the self and attributed to another person or thing (Laplanche et al., 1973, p. 349). In other words, projection is a defence against what we cannot make conscious or cannot bear in ourselves. It appears most clearly in paranoia.

Projection is not the same as transference. When a patient relates to the therapist as if the latter were his mother, he unwittingly transfers his early relationship with mother onto the new relationship. To do this he unconsciously allows his mother-image to fuse with his image of the therapist.

http://www.net.klte.hu/~keresofi/psy...bk40index.html