[objectclient]

I am so angry and frustrated with myself. It's been months since termination and several weeks since I got back in touch with T for further therapy and was rejected as a client but I'm still in bits over not being able to see T anymore. My intention for going back (unknown to T as I didn't want to scare her off!) was to sort out the transference stuff and this ridiculous need for excessive attachment and proximity to T. I keep alternating between feeling like a lost child - frightened, vulnerable and abandoned - and feeling very angry. What's worse is I've started to feel really jealous and angry towards the people in T's personal and professional life - her work colleagues, friends, family, husband/partner, current clients etc - who are both people I know of from my days of googling and obsessing over finding out what I can about T and people who are purely of my imagination. I actually feel quite uncomfortable and intrusive with how much I have found out about T by means of googling compared to the few details that she actually disclosed to me but I can't stop. I'm obsessed but I can't admit to myself that it's stalking because I would never spy on T in real life. The things I found out I would have preferred not knowing but I suppose it seemed the only way I had of feeling/getting close to her when I was rejected. Not only does it make me feel intrusive and uncomfortable but at this time of year I know that she takes a holiday and I'm now torturing myself with images of her spending time with family and friends. In fact, I'm cut up by the idea of anyone who gets to have her in their life even in the smallest ways because it's more than I have. I feel possessive and jealous and hate myself for it. I just want to be rid of her from my thoughts and memories. Why is this so difficult?

[Chummy2]

I know how it feels. I could have written this. All of this. Only with me it was (supposed to be) temporarily termination because of her pregnancy. It's over 5 months ago since I last saw her. She's now back at work but I haven''t heard from her. I do have a current T.

But how to deal with this? How to get over this? I don't know.
I'll have a session with current T and PrevT, to help me with my attachment, to find out why it's so bad and what we can do about this.
Maybe you weren't ready for termination yet or didn't had closure. I had that too. I wasn't ready for a life/therapy without T. We hadn't really dealed with my attachment. And now I've been hurting since the last time I saw her. Lots of googling and looking at her Facebook. I feel jealous and angry of the clients she'll start seeing now.
I want her back as a T. But I don't know if that's possible. And I don't know if she still wants me. I've a feeling she dislike me now.

I can work with current T and (hopefully) PrevT. But you can't. Maybe you can work on this with a new T?
Or try it yourself. Why is this attachment so big? Have you had this ever before? What do you want from her? Probably there's a need. And she can't fulfill that.
This is a bit from what T has asked me. It's difficult. I don't know why I have this with her. I haven't had anything like this before.

[objectclient]

Originally Posted by Chummy2

Why is this attachment so big?

That I don't know

Originally Posted by Chummy2

Have you had this ever before?

Many times and almost as far back as I can remember, but never this bad.

Originally Posted by Chummy2

What do you want from her? Probably there's a need. And she can't fulfill that.

I think I have a bad case of maternal transference and you're right, she can't fulfill the need I have/had for a parent figure who understands me, listens to me and actually sees me as a person that has feelings. I feel so crap for feeling this way as a grown adult and I just want these maternal transferences to stop.

Also, my life is pretty empty. I have my family but I've never felt like they have understood me. I don't have any friends and never have had; not real friends at least. I don't think I have ever even known how to make friends. I'm also single and have been my whole life. I know none of these things are or should be problematic and get in the way of me leading a happy, independent life on my own but for some reason, I'm not happy in the least.

[unaluna]

Why dont you see someone else? The "thing" is not with her in particular - you should be able to work it out with someone else. I know youve been thru t1, t2, t3, but this is not baseball; its not three strikes youre out. What is stopping you from seeing someone else?

Eta - i just read your post in the attachment thread. I guess that kinda answers it. Sounds like you dont want to blame your parents, but it also sounds like they werent attuned to you? Like youre just drifting now.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I could have written this myself. Its been almost 4 months since my termination with my old T and some days the pain is still as intense as when we ended. I miss her terribly. She was the greatest therapist who really got me. I really miss the way things were before. She has a new job now and it kills me that other people get her care like I once did.

I think its normal and ok to still be hurting months after termination. It takes time to heal and for the pain to lessen. Grief has no time line. Take all the time you need to grieve. Cry, scream, talk with someone and do whatever you need to do to get it out. I am sorry you are struggling so much. I hope the pain gets better and you can somehow keep her in your heart and all the memories and the stuff she taught you. No one can take any of that away and your work with her will always exist.

[objectclient]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Why dont you see someone else? The "thing" is not with her in particular - you should be able to work it out with someone else. I know youve been thru t1, t2, t3, but this is not baseball; its not three strikes youre out. What is stopping you from seeing someone else?

I guess I'm scared of getting attached and hurt again. Also, my experience with T3s changed me for the worse and gave me additional issues. They said that it was all part of my problem why the therapy wasn't helping and consequently, I started blaming myself for their errors as well as my own and this followed me outside therapy into my everyday life. They also told me I could phone in between sessions if I was struggling, then suddenly told me not anymore as if I was a kid getting grounded by mom and dad, and then said but you could ring knowing full well I would never dare to again after they criticized me for it in front of a whole therapeutic group. So I guess you could say I am scared of getting into harmful therapy again where my mental health deteriorates (which it did) and I also end up coming out of it badly hurt.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Eta - i just read your post in the attachment thread. I guess that kinda answers it. Sounds like you dont want to blame your parents, but it also sounds like they werent attuned to you? Like youre just drifting now.

Right, I don't want to blame my parents because there is nothing I could possibly blame them for. I wasn't abused or neglected in any way so there really is no need for me to attach so much to Ts, but yet it's there.

[objectclient]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

I hope the pain gets better and you can somehow keep her in your heart and all the memories and the stuff she taught you. No one can take any of that away and your work with her will always exist.

Sadly, I can't bear to think of the work I did with T because it just brings back memories of my therapy with her and the sense of loss not having her as my T anymore

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Originally Posted by objectclient

Sadly, I can't bear to think of the work I did with T because it just brings back memories of my therapy with her and the sense of loss not having her as my T anymore

The same thing happens with me also. Today I am really struggling with memories from my T and the painful reality that she is not my T anymore. She is in my heart and I can feel her there.

If you could internalize her then she can always be with you and it might help with the pain. I hope someday you can think of the memories and feel warm and fuzzy inside because it might help with the grief, as it has with me.

[kecanoe]

I struggled for a long time when I had a t retire. I could not accept that he was going to retire and I would never see him again. It was retraumatizing (he agreed with this)-every session until I quit seeing him. And after that it still took many months for me to get to a place where I can think of him without acute pain. I still think I would have been better off to have never seen him.

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but all I can say is that there is at least one adult who has the same feelings including that I can't believe I felt all that as an adult.

[BudFox]

I can relate to many aspects of your situation. What has helped me most -- reading accounts from other people who've gone through this sort of harmful experience. The more I read, more I realize much of the pain comes from the basic nature of therapy. Yes, I have wounds and deprivations from childhood. But that doesn't mean it is a good idea necessarily to undergo this sort of re-traumatizing exposure therapy. You reveal all those infantile needs and longings to a stranger and then what? You are destabilized for the rest of the week and expected to suck it up and cope. And if it ends prematurely perhaps you are destabilized for months or years.

If obsession and preoccupation surface as a result, the client is typically held responsible. But therapy quite clearly provokes this response in a fair number of people.

And one thing I never see mentioned--being caught in this sort of obsession is itself traumatic. It's a very toxic state to be in and it carries enormous stigma. It's both a traumatic place to be, and an indicator that therapy has been traumatic, as evidenced by intrusive thoughts, uncontrollable compulsive behavior, and so on.

I found Missbella's blog a great resource for peer support and for truth:
https://disequilibrium1.wordpress.co...aks-her-piece/

[ScarletPimpernel]

It's been 17 months since my termination. I didn't have maternal transference, just extreme attachment. I still miss her. I'm still jealous that other people, especially other clients, get to be in her life. I have a box of saved things from her. I can't look at it. It hurts too much.

I will say it gets better over time. My current T has really helped me out a lot. I no longer cry over ex-T. And though I still think about her almost daily, they're more fleeting thoughts. It took almost a year for me to get past the worst.

As far as maternal transference, I have experienced it in the past. And with one woman, she basically met all my needs. I got hugs, holding hands, she rocked me in her arms once, kissed me good night on my forehead, tucked me into bed, etc. I can honestly say that it didn't fill that hole inside me. It still wasn't enough. It helped. I was only 18 and had been abandoned by everyone in my life. But what helped the most was realizing that no matter how much love I got, it would never be enough. And it wasn't just with that woman. I had multiple "mother-figures" in my life. None were enough. So I've learned that the issue won't be resolved by anyone but myself. It's my issue.

I understand.
it took me eight years to get over my first t dumping me.

[objectclient]

Originally Posted by kecanoe

I still think I would have been better off to have never seen him.

I know how that feels

Originally Posted by BudFox

I can relate to many aspects of your situation. What has helped me most -- reading accounts from other people who've gone through this sort of harmful experience. The more I read, more I realize much of the pain comes from the basic nature of therapy. Yes, I have wounds and deprivations from childhood. But that doesn't mean it is a good idea necessarily to undergo this sort of re-traumatizing exposure therapy. You reveal all those infantile needs and longings to a stranger and then what? You are destabilized for the rest of the week and expected to suck it up and cope. And if it ends prematurely perhaps you are destabilized for months or years.

If obsession and preoccupation surface as a result, the client is typically held responsible. But therapy quite clearly provokes this response in a fair number of people.

And one thing I never see mentioned--being caught in this sort of obsession is itself traumatic. It's a very toxic state to be in and it carries enormous stigma. It's both a traumatic place to be, and an indicator that therapy has been traumatic, as evidenced by intrusive thoughts, uncontrollable compulsive behavior, and so on.

Yes, I agree. It's pure torment. The therapy opens up these deprivations but the therapist is unable to help you heal them. They seem clueless and what's worse, they blame you for having these feelings and the consequent behaviors associated with them. Therapy has opened up a void inside me that I don't know how to fill now.

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

It's been 17 months since my termination. I didn't have maternal transference, just extreme attachment. I still miss her. I'm still jealous that other people, especially other clients, get to be in her life. I have a box of saved things from her. I can't look at it. It hurts too much.

I will say it gets better over time. My current T has really helped me out a lot. I no longer cry over ex-T. And though I still think about her almost daily, they're more fleeting thoughts. It took almost a year for me to get past the worst.

As far as maternal transference, I have experienced it in the past. And with one woman, she basically met all my needs. I got hugs, holding hands, she rocked me in her arms once, kissed me good night on my forehead, tucked me into bed, etc. I can honestly say that it didn't fill that hole inside me. It still wasn't enough. It helped. I was only 18 and had been abandoned by everyone in my life. But what helped the most was realizing that no matter how much love I got, it would never be enough. And it wasn't just with that woman. I had multiple "mother-figures" in my life. None were enough. So I've learned that the issue won't be resolved by anyone but myself. It's my issue.

I know what you mean about it never being enough. So if it's an issue only we can resolve, how do we do that? Because that's the stage I'm at now. Therapy has made me aware of this great big void, even though that wasn't actually the reason I went into therapy. Turns out the symptoms that were bothering me all came from this void that I wasn't aware of existing inside me but now I'm left with a huge open wound.

[Soccer mom]

I was terminated almost a year ago and still struggle with it but it's better. I too was very jealous of ex-T. and her friends/family.

What I have discovered is that I never felt accepted by her - truly accepted. Because of the style of her therapy, I always felt she thought I should change. I didn't talk enough, I wasn't telling her my feelings, I was taking things personally, etc.

So, when she was spending time with others, she was accepted them more than me. In turn, I also felt rejected by her in small ways that added up.

I'm in therapy currently but hope to wrap all this up before the end of the year.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by objectclient

I know what you mean about it never being enough. So if it's an issue only we can resolve, how do we do that? Because that's the stage I'm at now. Therapy has made me aware of this great big void, even though that wasn't actually the reason I went into therapy. Turns out the symptoms that were bothering me all came from this void that I wasn't aware of existing inside me but now I'm left with a huge open wound.

What I was taught is that you will never fill that hole. But what you can do is build up around it, so that over time the hole seems a lot smaller.

I'm struggling with building my life up atm. I'm kind of at a point where I'm accepting that things aren't going to change much more. Sure there's always room for progress, but life has made me who I am. T and I don't want to process the past anymore. I don't need to re-live my traumas anymore than I have. So now it's just learning how to cope with everything.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by objectclient

Yes, I agree. It's pure torment. The therapy opens up these deprivations but the therapist is unable to help you heal them. They seem clueless and what's worse, they blame you for having these feelings and the consequent behaviors associated with them. Therapy has opened up a void inside me that I don't know how to fill now.

Yep, that sounds about right. It feels like a monumental deception and betrayal. I took a large risk in exposing my hideous shame and infantile needs to a near stranger. It's what she pushed me to do. Then she said (in effect) those needs are unacceptable and shame on you for having them.

As for the void, yeah not sure either.

[KitKatKazoo]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I can relate to many aspects of your situation. What has helped me most -- reading accounts from other people who've gone through this sort of harmful experience. The more I read, more I realize much of the pain comes from the basic nature of therapy. Yes, I have wounds and deprivations from childhood. But that doesn't mean it is a good idea necessarily to undergo this sort of re-traumatizing exposure therapy. You reveal all those infantile needs and longings to a stranger and then what? You are destabilized for the rest of the week and expected to suck it up and cope. And if it ends prematurely perhaps you are destabilized for months or years.

If obsession and preoccupation surface as a result, the client is typically held responsible. But therapy quite clearly provokes this response in a fair number of people.

And one thing I never see mentioned--being caught in this sort of obsession is itself traumatic. It's a very toxic state to be in and it carries enormous stigma. It's both a traumatic place to be, and an indicator that therapy has been traumatic, as evidenced by intrusive thoughts, uncontrollable compulsive behavior, and so on.

I found Missbella's blog a great resource for peer support and for truth:
https://disequilibrium1.wordpress.co...aks-her-piece/

I SO agree with you, particularly "If obsession and preoccupation surface as a result, the client is typically held responsible. But therapy quite clearly provokes this response in a fair number of people." I'm one of them, and the obsession is traumatic. Toxic state, indeed. And evidently no way out. I usually feel like it's all my fault, but your post has given me reason to consider that the therapy and/or therapist share a good deal of the blame. I'm going to check out the blog you cited. Thank you!

[UglyDucky]

I was going through the same thing not long ago, OC. When I became suicidal when T was gone for a week, T said, "We need to find out what happened when your Dad left." T didn't blame me for my intense attachment. Not all Ts lay responsibility on the client. I'm so sorry you are going through all of this upheaval and pain. Many times, Ts aren't experienced enough to deal with countertransference issues or intense attachment. I know that doesn't help you much. I do know what you feel, but you are part of the solution. Do you have any self-soothing techniques that have worked in the past? Have you tried relaxation exercises to take your mind off of your feelings for short periods of time? I hope you feel better soon.

[KitKatKazoo]

Originally Posted by objectclient

I know how that feels


Yes, I agree. It's pure torment. The therapy opens up these deprivations but the therapist is unable to help you heal them. They seem clueless and what's worse, they blame you for having these feelings and the consequent behaviors associated with them. Therapy has opened up a void inside me that I don't know how to fill now.

Me too.


I know what you mean about it never being enough. So if it's an issue only we can resolve, how do we do that? Because that's the stage I'm at now. Therapy has made me aware of this great big void, even though that wasn't actually the reason I went into therapy. Turns out the symptoms that were bothering me all came from this void that I wasn't aware of existing inside me but now I'm left with a huge open wound.

Again - me too! It's awful and unresolvable and just sucks in every way. I feel a little better knowing I'm not the only one, but I wish no one had to experience this.

[objectclient]

Wow, there's quite a few of us that have had this experience. I'm sorry this has happened but it is of some comfort to know that I'm not alone and that we all share this pain.

All of my Ts encouraged me to talk about how I feel in the present and my past memories, completely overlooking the therapy relationship itself which I now think offered so much information about my early years of which naturally, I have no memory. The relationship with your T, the attachment and the transference is such an integral part of therapy that I can't begin to understand why it goes ignored by therapists. Sure, it's awkward and difficult but therapists are just as guilty as shying away from it as their clients. In my case, my Ts were actually worse than me at evading the topic. I tried to discuss it and get across my level of attachment to two of my Ts in the build up to termination when I first became aware of it as being problematic but on both occasions, I was told it was normal or it was swept under the rug. No, it isn't normal to feel so attached to somebody that it's toxic, provoking obsessive thoughts and behaviors, but I could gauge from T's reaction to what I had said already that had I told them this, I would be terminated on the spot. Having become so painfully attached and then badly hurt by the termination on two occasions, with my third Ts I decided to tell them before it (the attachment) happened that I had a tendency to become over attached and this had been present my whole life with authority figures. I wasn't terminated, but again it went ignored at which point, in my heart I had given up on them as I knew that they were not capable of dealing with attachment and transference.

Given what I have experienced and now know, I think it should be compulsory that therapists are trained and competent to address these matters. Without doing so, the therapy is IMO only doing further harm and re-traumatizing the client, repeating past relationships where attachment was painful and needs were unmet without offering any solution.

[wheeler]

I just wanted to chime in that I too have had obsessive-like attachments to 2 different therapists. The first one terminated me because of it and the second one, after encouraging it for years, abandoned me. I have been seeing a new therapist for less than a year and I am cautiously-optimistic that this will be a better experience. She seems very willing to talk about and address the issue but it's a tough road.

[KitKatKazoo]

Originally Posted by objectclient

Wow, there's quite a few of us that have had this experience. I'm sorry this has happened but it is of some comfort to know that I'm not alone and that we all share this pain.

All of my Ts encouraged me to talk about how I feel in the present and my past memories, completely overlooking the therapy relationship itself which I now think offered so much information about my early years of which naturally, I have no memory. The relationship with your T, the attachment and the transference is such an integral part of therapy that I can't begin to understand why it goes ignored by therapists. Sure, it's awkward and difficult but therapists are just as guilty as shying away from it as their clients. In my case, my Ts were actually worse than me at evading the topic. I tried to discuss it and get across my level of attachment to two of my Ts in the build up to termination when I first became aware of it as being problematic but on both occasions, I was told it was normal or it was swept under the rug. No, it isn't normal to feel so attached to somebody that it's toxic, provoking obsessive thoughts and behaviors, but I could gauge from T's reaction to what I had said already that had I told them this, I would be terminated on the spot. Having become so painfully attached and then badly hurt by the termination on two occasions, with my third Ts I decided to tell them before it (the attachment) happened that I had a tendency to become over attached and this had been present my whole life with authority figures. I wasn't terminated, but again it went ignored at which point, in my heart I had given up on them as I knew that they were not capable of dealing with attachment and transference.

Given what I have experienced and now know, I think it should be compulsory that therapists are trained and competent to address these matters. Without doing so, the therapy is IMO only doing further harm and re-traumatizing the client, repeating past relationships where attachment was painful and needs were unmet without offering any solution.

That is my greatest fear--that now that my therapist realized relatively recently how overly and unhealthily I am attached to her--she will terminate me.

Three weeks ago she confronted me (more details in an earlier post if you're interested), but she didn't terminate me on the spot. In an email and via text, she has encouraged me to return--I've been stalling and noncommital--but I fear that it's only so that she can badger me to reveal what personal information I learned about her during my compulsive searching--and that once she satisfies her curiosity, she'll terminate me. Not seeing her and leaving the situation unsettled is distressing, but the thought of facing her and disclosing the attachment only to then be terminated is even worse. So I remain in this miserable limbo.

It makes me angry that therapy encourages these toxic attachments and compulsive thoughts and behaviors in some of us--and then therapists turn on their clients and terminate them for the very behaviors their so-called treatment provoked!

It's saddening that some of us who sought help instead found harm. For me, it feels like a big open wound that will never heal. I wish I'd never met my therapist and that I could put everything back the way it was before.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by objectclient

All of my Ts encouraged me to talk about how I feel in the present and my past memories, completely overlooking the therapy relationship itself which I now think offered so much information about my early years of which naturally, I have no memory.

It does seem that therapy relationships can bring out infantile longings and unmet needs and early caretaker patterns, but i think the extent that it does this in a predictable, meaningful way is vastly overstated. I also think the idea that this can somehow be managed and parlayed into healing by the therapist is way way oversold and borders on the absurd. It probably ends in disaster quite often. With my last one we did talk about the relationship, almost exclusively for a while. I can certainly speculate in a very vague way in terms of what I was projecting. Did this help in my life? Nope. It wrecked me.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by KitKatKazoo

That is my greatest fear--that now that my therapist realized relatively recently how overly and unhealthily I am attached to her--she will terminate me.

Three weeks ago she confronted me (more details in an earlier post if you're interested), but she didn't terminate me on the spot. In an email and via text, she has encouraged me to return--I've been stalling and noncommital--but I fear that it's only so that she can badger me to reveal what personal information I learned about her during my compulsive searching--and that once she satisfies her curiosity, she'll terminate me. Not seeing her and leaving the situation unsettled is distressing, but the thought of facing her and disclosing the attachment only to then be terminated is even worse. So I remain in this miserable limbo.

It makes me angry that therapy encourages these toxic attachments and compulsive thoughts and behaviors in some of us--and then therapists turn on their clients and terminate them for the very behaviors their so-called treatment provoked!

It's saddening that some of us who sought help instead found harm. For me, it feels like a big open wound that will never heal. I wish I'd never met my therapist and that I could put everything back the way it was before.

That is a terrible bind you are in. Becoming vulnerable and then ending up in a no-win situation like you describe, that is horrible. Hope you can end things in some way that leaves you with a measure of dignity and autonomy. If she did want to terminate you, do you think you'd be able to call her on the hypocrisy and deception?

I was in a no-win situation also. And in fact my therapist said explicitly that I had formed an unhealthy attachment to her. The way she said this was very telling, because it put the blame squarely on me. She should have acknowledged that the dependency was a direct result of her lavishing attention on me, and her emotional entanglement with me, and many other aspects of her behavior and of therapy. If you love bomb people who are love deprived or in a desperate situation or crisis, what in god's name do you think is going to happen?

[KitKatKazoo]

Originally Posted by BudFox

That is a terrible bind you are in. Becoming vulnerable and then ending up in a no-win situation like you describe, that is horrible. Hope you can end things in some way that leaves you with a measure of dignity and autonomy. If she did want to terminate you, do you think you'd be able to call her on the hypocrisy and deception?

I was in a no-win situation also. And in fact my therapist said explicitly that I had formed an unhealthy attachment to her. The way she said this was very telling, because it put the blame squarely on me. She should have acknowledged that the dependency was a direct result of her lavishing attention on me, and her emotional entanglement with me, and many other aspects of her behavior and of therapy. If you love bomb people who are love deprived or in a desperate situation or crisis, what in god's name do you think is going to happen?

Thank you. It's good to feel understood, although I hate knowing that others have found themselves similarly situated. I'm sorry that happened to you.

I've been mulling over the idea of making a final appointment and asking T outright if she's going to terminate me. If she is, I'm not going to give her the satisfaction of telling her what I know about her and how I know it. Let her wonder and worry--it's only fair! On the other hand, if she is amenable to working through the issue … well, I'm not sure. As you said, I'm really in a bind. I'd love to find closure and peace and put the entire therapy experience behind me forever, but I'm afraid that going back may only reignite the attachment thing--not that it's ever far from my thoughts--and further ensnare me in the whole mess. I keep telling myself I don't have to make an immediate decision, but I've already taken 3 1/2 weeks and haven't come up with a solution.