Ghosting/ Break Up

That is exactly how I feel. He takes it for granted. Once he told he was a very important figure in my life right now. Isnt that mine to say? I told him I felt like he was daring me to quit once, and he did listen better for a while.

I adore my T, and that is a problem- I told him so many things I have never told another human.

Makes hard to leave.

My T is very boundaried. She is very consistent and yet not rigid. Eg I have out of session contact which we discussed a lot about.

She's boundaried in that she never loosens a boundary unless it's something she can sustain really long term. So whatever she offers, she is absolutely sure she can sustainable maintain, and won't suddenly tighten boundaries.

There's so many stories of Ts here who suddenly tighten boundaries.

Rigid is not a good thing, I feel. It's the opposite of flexible, IMO. Different people need different things.

Feel almost like your T's pride in his rigidity re enacts you receiving no support after traumatic events. Like you're running into a blank, unyielding brick wall of a T, SE.

You deserve a T who doesn't take you for granted. Could you raise this with him.and gauge his response?

I adored my ex T too but it turned out that I needed a T who's more flexible with a supervisor supporting that flexibility. My ex T got discouraged by her supervisor from hugging me, touching my hand, going a little bit over time. It was not encouraged in the modality she practices.

Whereas my current T is a much better fit because she's trained in treating trauma, is very flexible yet strong consistent boundaries, understands that we're way more than our symptoms. T believes in partly meeting some emotional needs while strengthening my coping skills, working with me to build a support network etc. Getting my emotional needs partly met in therapy has reduced the agonising longing to be seen, heard, heart loved, mind known.

I still miss ex T 3 years on. Really. But the longing has lessened over time.

Thank you QM. Tried telling him that today.yes we can be proud of working together as a male t and female patient( Client imo), , but it feels like with the boundaries in the forfront,but not the shelter and empathy, like another male figure seeing tears and not caring.

Things are a mess.

Hugs if you want them. I hear you. It's like he's more focused in maintaining "professional" distance than being present and human WITH you.

That distancing thing could be counter transference of some form, like how people around distance themselves from people who've experienced trauma. I'll see if I can dig up a research PDF I found on it. It studied various transference and countertransference reactions that commonly come up in the treatment of clients with trauma.

We don't need an uncaring witness - it's reminiscent of the trauma of being unsupported....actually retraumatising. We need someone, such as the therapist, to come alongside us. We need what the literature calls a compassionate witness. It doesn't have to be from a T but we need it from others because the traumas were done within relationships.

And the research talks about how we need more direct expressions of "being with" due to the experiences of trauma and being unsupported after it, not silence and distant doctor-patient "medical" responses.

That sounds amazing to fit with a therapist like that. I hope I can find that.

Why do you think you miss your other T? Doyou think their withholding evokes more needs for them in us?

My T did talk about compassionate witness- and he was that while we processed trauma . I'll be right with you, right here, take a risk. . .'

I dont know what happened- it isnt like that now.

I miss my ex T because she was my first T who cared, who listened, who tried.

Ultimately my trauma overwhelmed her and she felt really helpless and "de skilled". I thought I broke her...for a long time I blamed myself for being too much for her.

Apparently that's a common reaction for Ts not trained to work with complex trauma.

The withholding made me yearn even more, personally. She broke "rules" of her own, of her supervisor. She was not supposed to allow touch according to her supervisor. She told me "don't tell anyone" after our first touch -- my fingertips to her fingertips while I was weeping distraught.

She would go overtime for me, read books I loaned her (books were relevant to my issues). Read my journals to her. Let me hug her.

I asked for a transitional object after reading on it (blogs from trauma and attachment therapists, posts here on PC). I wanted her to choose a marble (I would have brought the marbles) and have her hold it to "charge" it. She said she had to ask her supervisor. Supervisor said no, that it would "foster dependency". That HURT so much. Supervisor said shouldn't hug, shouldn't go overtime, shouldn't read my journals. "Too dependent".

I waited more than a year before asking current T for a transitional object dye to that. A long time before I asked about a hug too...

Ex T had to go on maternity leave. For 8 sessions, I would have to see another T. Ex T matched all her clients well with their substitute Ts. She chose current T for me and BOTH emphasized they wanted the best for me, regardless of who I chose to continue with. In fact, BOTH felt the OTHER was more suited to me. Ex T because current T is trauma trained in ACT, DBT, schema therapy with trauma and abuse cases. T because she felt ex T had built trust with me.

Current T readily gave me a transitional object when I asked and explained why I wanted / needed one. I wasn't sure if it was a want or need and was terrified of rejection again. She understood easily, and more than that...is willing to try to understand and not outright say no.

T reads my journals, again after understanding it's my way to be as open and trusting as I can (I'm very closed off in sessions). They are extremely lengthy. Thousands of words and can be over 50 sheets of paper typed double sided, 11pt font... (I know I'm so..."needy"...) There was a rupture when I THOUGHT she said I should write less and say more in sessions. I cried and explained why I write so much. She clarified that YES she was afraid I'm using writing to avoid talking. I explained, we talked.

I broke boundaries...Googled her. Told her. I private messaged her on social media. Had a panic attack in session confessing it. She wasn't upset or angry at all. In fact she said that made her realise I "needed" more support. She even apologised for not replying! So we discussed and she's always reminded me that she'll never offer anything she can't sustain AND will never take away anything if it's healthy. So she let's me message, and her boundary is she won't reply.

Thing she did "take away" (sorry, forgot this in my previous posts): Reassuring me when I ask if I'm disgusting. Because it wasn't helping. She said her final answer would be "Never, I will never find you disgusting." I started to ask her almost every session. It caused a rupture and we talked it out. I accepted her decision eventually, and she let me talk about it as much as I wanted.

I recently asked for a card to reinforce self compassion and coping skills. I did not think I would get one but she gifted me a beautiful one in a very moving session.

There was a time when due to my work constraints and her caseload and schedule, I was going 3 weeks or more between sessions. She offered that I can call the clinic and ask them to get her to call me back. This arrangement is still ongoing. I can also call when I need (even though we've resumed our usual fortnightly session frequency) if hours of coping skills hasn't helped much. I've asked her how much I can call, afraid to break a rule. She says "not every day" but emphasized that if it's too much, we will discuss and find ways to beef up my coping.

Recently I asked if I can email her and have her briefly reply via email. My intention was to reduce calling the clinic, which I already only do when desperate. She said she'll think about it. We discussed why I want it. I was open about not knowing if it's a want or a need. She told me that IF she says Yes, she will call rather than email a reply. Because she prefers the immediacy of voice vs text. She promised to think carefully about it and told me several times I'm brave for asking. I on my part was open about my intentions, reasons, fears that I'll escalate in frequency etc. In that same session, she ALSO offered scheduled check ins...which I said I'll think about carefully.

She's also done weekly sessions with me for a brief time when I need.

Point of my whole long post about my T...she understands that containment within session is not enough for some clients depending on their individual issues.

I have a friend who sees her too. She's got DID but only wants to see T once every few months and doesn't seem to need outside contact. T herself has told me that some patients have emailed her, some call her like me.

I've seen some patients arriving for specially scheduled 30 minute sessions outside of regular clinic hours (she does have a lot of flexibility and the clinic allows for 3 billing codes depending on session duration) which she DOESN'T offer me...because it doesn't benefit me. Yes, I was upset when I found out so she explained her clinical judgment that the whole half hour would be spent just opening me up.

... point being...you deserve a flexible T who can meet your needs or at least explain why they can't. Truly.

I understand being really attached to your current T even if a different T would suit your needs better. So I'm not saying "leave your T". But I DO want to say "You may do better with a more flexible T."

But when he is being a compassionate witness, he is more in medical procedure t mode, less in human mode. Im not sure you see it that way?

Its like my t is two people in his office - the person ive come to know who has similar politics but there are still unknowns on both sides, and then the professional.

Also, I'm of the opinion that we need to be able to carry the containment outside of session / therapists ought to understand sometimes trauma poop leaks out outside sessions. It's normal, it's expected. Trauma is like hot lava. It's not like a bone you can bury which stays buried...it's more like a zombie that keeps crawling out of the grave we try to bury it in. Triggers abound and we can't avoid all of them in life.

Can you write down what's bothering you, how it has a negative effect on you, and then what you'd like to see? Then send him that by e-mail, letter, or hand him the note at the beginning of the session?

I did this with my pdoc (last week actually - the next session post-email is later today!). It basically came down to:
I feel you've not always been listening lately, just "watching" and interpreting.
This makes me uncertain because those interpretations - it's grounds skewed in favour of what you see - might not be right and the solutions are thus not appropriate or helpful.
Would you be willing to show me better that you are, in fact, listening?
*metaphor/make-up example, then a joke about that to show that "we're OK"*

(I deliberately used /show that you're listening/ instead of /listen/ because I don't want to attack him by implying he needs to change himself or his methods or behaviour. I don't feel I can demand any of those things either. Just that I need to see that he listens and therefore I need him to show it. Unavoidable side effect will be him listening better!)

What do you have to lose by sending something? You can always leave the session after. Or he might change back to the interested T you felt so comfortable with.

Regarding feeling like your T has started to care less, I agree with Breadfish. Talk with your T.

I did recently over a similar issue of feeling she cares less now than in the beginning. It was very healing to hear her views, her perceptions, address why I felt that way...and it reaffirmed her caring.

These. are things I can't even imagine- and they sound like more of what I need to manage the fear generated by sessions. My T only understands containment inside the session. I also think he feels qualified to treat CPTSD bc he is a rockstar at short intense prolonged exposure theory for vets with PTSD.

My T practices schema therapy, ACT, DBT and she's pretty strict for a schema therapist or other attachment therapists. Full fledged DBT Ts offer coaching calls etc.

Others I've read in trauma survivor blogs and books offer a lot more. There's some PC folks with very generous therapists. Eg, junkDNA, AbusedToy, Elio, Starlight? whose T lives in another country...and many more, sorry my memory is fuzzy.

Can I half jokingly roll eyes at your T? The part about him thinking he's a rockstar bit.

Prolonged exposure doesn't *always* work (not saying it *never* works) for C PTSD because too many traumas.

Does he work on self regulation skills with you which you can use outside of session?

Does he help you remember those skills, eg notes, flashcards for when your brain is hijacked and you forget because you're flooded?

In session, has he co created a safe space (perhaps an imaginary one) which you can "return to" when triggered?

https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/com...trauma-0603137

I'm not trying to bash your T and I'm sure there's good things with him else you won't be so attached and struggling so much. I just feel you deserve better.

I thought I'd never find anyone as good as my ex T. I still have great fondness for my ex T, but my current T is a much better fit.

Also despite my strong words, please know I don't intend to pressure you in any direction.

It's fully your choice and you know your heart and situation best.

I would encourage you, as Breadfish well explained, to write or to tell him about how you see things. I have experienced a less intense version in the neighborhood of what you are experiencing from your T, with my current T several times. I know from my history that I scrutinize the nonverbals/etc more with men than with women and when I do not share negative perceptions at first (which hardly ever happens, it takes me at least one session if not more), I am surprised at how open T is to what I'm saying and how good he is at explaining what he has been experiencing in our sessions. This has been so helpful to me, a check on my wildish belief that I can flawlessly read people (I can't but it makes me feel safe to think I can) and a good way to make sense of how I can distort-- sometimes just slightly-- to attend to negativity rather than the reality mix of whatever is there in the room. It's always more complicated than I thought. Understanding how I was both right and wrong has been eye opening, and healing in some way I can't articulate.

But I also think that being open in your criticism or negative feelings is an important test of a T, one that they seem to fail some of the time. I think when you perceive a change as you have, it's worth it to try to communicate it in whatever way is best for you. It might be that things are not exactly how you perceive them to be.

I think QM's therapist sounds a lot like mine: lots of flexibility and wanting to understand all my needs and meet the ones she can. She's okay with me leaning on her while I heal. She's also very humble. She has told me a few times that the most important thing she can do is be present as a fellow human, that yeah, she has training and techniques, but at the end of the day we're both just people figuring things out. I think the somewhat more level playing field has helped me realize my own power, and I like that she and I work together to find the path forward.

I don't know exactly what your trauma background looks like, but I do wonder whether somebody who is trained to work with soldiers can really necessarily understand all kinds of trauma without additional training and experience. People who had an okay upbringing and then experienced something horrible will have different experiences and needs than people who didn't have the okay upbringing in the first place. I agree with people who are saying that you should bring this up with your T if you haven't already, but I don't get the sense that he prides himself on his flexibility or attunement.

He knows the staging of trauma ,and explained it to me , but he isnt concerned about what happens off his watch and he is very strict/firm about sucking it up until the next session.

In his own way, he gives me a privilege of coming 2x a week, and other patients often dont get that kind of time. He is incredibly skilled with techniques-mirroring, motivational interviewing or whatever, and he is attuned in the session.

The problem is it seems so fake, bc he will snap out of it like an alter ego has taken over if he gets defensive or if he wants to tell something logistical before the end of session or he is feuding with his office neighbor the lawyer. It is very weird bc I have no idea what kind of person he really is, though I have spent a zillion hours with him. I think he would be a difficult neighbor real life- kind of unforgiving and not easygoing.

I often find out little things that make feel he has been lying me all along,even though I know he is keeping a neutralish stance as is his belief. Like he let me go on and on about my puppy , and one day the other office brought up a cute Portuguese Water Dog to the floor. You should've seen his face - Immediately I said you hate dogs dont you? He said well I wish you hadn't picked upon that, I am very allergic .

There are ten example of that if there is one. Another example is that I played division I soccer in college, and he asked me lots of questions about soccer, my position, what I learned from coaches and teammates, and he took the stance of knowing nothing about the game. Months later he mentioned he played soccer in high school and college. I felt so, so dumb.

These things make me feel like he is soft core deceiving me all the time, or manipulating me , or just picking and choosing reality. It is really threatening to me for some reason. It may be insignificant, and I have trust issues,but it crops up often .

He might be a great T, and I have liabilities and limits from the past that make me crippled at this kind of relationship, bc certainly I have adored him at times, and enjoyed his quick humor and his really cool metaphors. He is sensitive. It might be I lost a crazy amount of faith in him over the holidays, when I had to face the perpetrator and he was celebrating Boxing Day and beaming. He totally didnt attune that month; for another thing (unfairly since I evoked confidentiallity) and am an adult, I felt like he was a bystander and didnt care enough or personally about me. I put him in a double bind for sure, though just in my head I didnt complain that he didnt care enough. Maybe I wanted him to be a superhero and fix it, and he is a nice suburban dad who cannot fix it?

I am always hurting it seems like. I know we are not supposed use "always" but I feel brokenhearted a high percentage of the time after sessions, and it isnt getting better. I finally tried reaching out, and he was having none of it and told me to save it for the next session. I am not going to beg, but I might ghost. He is really proud of how "firm" his boundaries are, and he isnt going change anything materially.

I don't want to belabor the (possibly) obvious and/or I may be way off base here, but are there (possibly) numbed out hurts from your past which his behavior is triggering? That's something that I believed happened, or may have happened, with my last T. She didn't handle it at all well IMO. Her own stuff, probably, but because of my own stuff it went down very horribly for me. Still, after we parted ways I eventually felt the hurt not just from her but from my past. Don't know what to do about that, how to integrate it, make a new life, etc. And for me personally I'm unwilling/unable to try any more practitioners of that profession. Although I consider it almost daily. I need some help somewhere I think. Though maybe not, just some toughening up.

SE -- some of it seems like just dumb-arse stuff from him. I mean, how long / consistently could he have kept up the 'I-know-nothing-about-soccer' facade? To me, stuff like that would just piss me off because it would feel like an insult to my intelligence.

Some other stuff though could just be clumsily handled standard issue therapeutic boundaries (hating dogs etc).

To me, the bigger issue is that you clearly seem to need a therapist who 'bends' and can be warmer / more attuned -- his inability (or unwillingness -- I'm not entirely convinced that it's not his inability that he's simply hiding behind a facade of unwillingness) to do that tells me that he's actually failing you therapeutically. The actual act he may engage in to make you feel more cared for might be different than the one(s) you have in mind but there needs to be some discussion / conversation / forward movement on it.

Or, you are just going to remain stuck with neither of you changing and at that point, yeah, I don't see how anything other than quitting would work.

In your place, I'd probably cut down the frequency of sessions with him -- say, once a week rather than twice a week (or, if you can handle it, once every two weeks) -- and simultaneously consult someone else (finding a suitable someone else might take a while and give you a whole different perspective in the process as well).

So, that way, you're not forced to make a final decision and consequently, twist yourself into a knot because you'll keep second-guessing yourself but at the same time, you're not cutting yourself off from better possibilities.

Ugh, he just gets worse and worse the more I hear about him.

And fwiw, I don't think seeing him 2x/week is some sort of privilege you should feel grateful for. He's getting paid for it. If he didn't see you an additional time, he'd just be seeing someone else. I can understand feeling grateful that you can afford to see him twice a week, but I really don't think you need to feel grateful towards him. If he's doing something to make you feel like seeing him twice a week is a favor, that's some bs.

I have had similar experiences with my t, like the soccer and the dog and getting a glimpse of his "nasty neighbor" side. Learning to tolerate those uncomfortable twinges and still hang on to the relationship with the imperfect human has been the work of my therapy.

This was important because acceptance by my FOO was dependent on my being perfect, which was of course impossible, and therefore i was never acceptable. Then i applied those same standard to others. Are you applying those standards to him?

Re the soccer - 1. You were telling him your experience. He was holding a boundary and rightly so by not VOLUNTEERING anything. Otherwise it would have been intrusive. 2. Did you ask him about his? Rather than blaming him for withholding, i would ask why you were reticent. This was especially difficult for me to overcome, given my FOO.

I realize i may be way off in my speculations here, as our backgrounds/FOO and sources of trauma are so different, but i thought id give it a shot

I agree with this. My T has recently started seeing me twice a week. Maybe the second or third week he offered me a second session, I thanked him and said I wouldn't take advantage of it too much, that I really appreciated his letting me have a couple extra sessions. His response was that he didn't know how I would take this, but that this is his job, we have a professional relationship, and as long as I pay him and he has the time slot available, I can have a session. Which...actually felt OK to me. It means he's not doing a favor. It doesn't feel like something he's offering me that he could then decide to take away (like free unlimited outside contact with ex-T or MC). I know some T's do have rules about clients only being able to come in once a week, so my T is flexible in that sense. But it doesn't feel like a favor, it feels like something I'm paying him for. Which, again...I feel like that sounds bad in a way, because it's emphasizing the professional, rather than personal, part. But it also feels safer and more secure.

well it may be their job but in my case he wouldn't be filling it with someone else, my T has a very small number of clients as it is.... and he only allows 2x a week during crisis so other people get it but its very short term and its not often... i do feel privileged that i was allowed 2 months of it with him.... it's not something i could do right now and possibly ever again. so i guess it depends on the T and their rules etc.

I have a session at 9 am today. I tried being forthcoming last session, but that is how I got the long lecture about how he has the firmest boundaries in town to keep the space safe, and to role model boundaries for all the patients. I dont even think the issue is about boundaries,somuch as what you said about containment and resources, and how I don't feel cared about ending the session in floods of tears, and being sent out into the street . In response to that, I get "reality testing". Like Esme, if you do run into someone you know, do you think they can see inside you and know why you are crying? It could be anything, your dog could have died". This makes me fume. We are having a communication breakdown.

Someone has a TS Eliot quotation on her profile here that I Loveland it makes me think of another one which is my struggle with therapy or at least this T- "Teach us to care and not to care. Teach us to sit still." It is a tricky thing to pretend "as if" there is a relationship that's real, yet hold in mind it isnt. That is hard for anyone, but it is more complex with gender dynamics in play, the power dynamics- the doctor, the patient? That isnt how I see it or want to feel.

I hope you have (or had? Not sure what time zone you're in) a good session...