[chaotic13]

Jello,

I'm not sure what exactly he says to you or what you really want. But, are there some neutral statements that you can think of to say to reaffirm your desire to stand firm and protect yourself without igniting him.

Maybe:
* I'd like to be in a position to help you, but I not able to at this point.
* I care for you, but our relationship has changed. I am no longer able to help you in that way. Or I am not willing to do that. Or ____ is not possible now. Or you cannot stay here anymore.
* I see you are trying, thank you. but I'm not willing to go back
* I need to take care of my self right now
* I don't want to commit to another visit at this point.
* Thanks for wanting to come to my graduation. I know you are proud of me, but I think its best if you show your support in some other way. My graduation is a celebration of my personal achievement, I want to be able to focus on myself and enjoying the events of the day.
* I think it is in both of our best interests if you stop calling/visiting me
* What we had, no longer exists, we both need to move toward separately

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It sounds like one problem is that even though you tell your H you want less contact, he doesn't get it. Is that true? Maybe you need to try to explain things differently. Maybe telling him how he makes you feel would help.(Do you do that?) For example, tell him that you can't keep having so much contact with him because it makes you feel awful, trapped, depressed, whatever... That is not being mean. Tell him how his actions affect you. Maybe you have.... You can also try harder not to make supportive gestures. That may be giving him a mixed message. Just be neutral--not cruel, not supportive.

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sunrise.. the trouble is two-fold.. he has NPD and he was abusive.. he didn't hit me, he was what T and i call verbally violent.. i was/am afraid of him. So it's not that i am uncomfortable.. i am terrified. i instantly crumble and become very submissive... if that happens then of course i will back down and give him whatever it is he is asking/demanding. Telling him how he makes me feel sets him off like a match in gasoline.

the other part is the NPD.. he just cannot conceive of certain things.. to make it worse, he doesn't know it. His care providers have not been able to tell him.. whenever they try he ends up in the psych ward. It totally unravels his reality. So, he cannot conceive of me not eventually wanting him back.. he has this idea that if he doesn't yell and keeps his job then we are working things out...

i have said "i can't do this any more" "i want a seperation" and "we are seperated." i have told him to contact his immigration attourney to check into what would happen.. i have told him NOT to come to my grad.. not to come visit.. not to call me so much... but it's like it wears off and he goes right back to whatever he had been doing. Part of this is that our relationship skewed, and somewhere in there i became his therapist instead of his wife... and honestly? i think i am the victim of intense transference. He's abusive on one hand and almost addicted on the other. Either way i suffer

i am trying hard to be less supportive.. and when i am i tell him a therapist should be doing this not me.. sometimes i do refuse and say he needs a therapist.

i have to tell him he cant come here anymore and he cant call me like he has been. Maybe once a week? i'd rather none for a while.. and then every so often if we can be friends in this. i mean.. he has a vested interest in being nice, i hold his immigration in my hands... *sigh.. i sometimes wish i were as inconsiderate, thoughtless, cruel and coldhearted as he has accused me of being..

mckell.. yeah.. i have been saying some of those or variations.. and he has not gotten it... apparently i need to ramp it up to "%#@&#! you"

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My graduation is a celebration of my personal achievement

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yeah.. oh boy. That is what we call a rocket blast. He would freak out at this because it would mean i was not giving him credit for my achievement. Yes. You read that right. He feels he got me to where i am. What is worse is i believed that.. still do in some ways. T pointed it out to me.. that H was saying things like how he had gotten me this far, etc.. it's often subtly worded, not malicious in intent because he doesn't perceive the boundary. It's %#@&#! maddening. So that statement would be an example of a right i dont have with him... the right to take credit for my own achievements...

[ECHOES]

Jello, just dropping by to give you a

[sunrise]

Hi Jello, I hope my previous post didn't seem to make the issues with your H seem easier than they are. Your life sounds overwhelming right now--what a balancing act. I understand about crumbling in the face of anger. I hope you can keep working in therapy to get strong and more able to withstand him. (My H is also emotionally/verbally abusive and has NPD, but sounds a lot more functional.) I hope you are able to stop being his therapist and can extricate yourself safely. The immigration thing is a powerful tool for you, and your lawyer will have ideas on how to use it. Just do what you can for now, and bide your time while you gather strength and have clear financial and legal strategies. Please keep coming here for support--we care. You will get stronger as time passes.

If worse comes to worse, and I hope it doesn't, there are more extreme measures to consider: changing the locks on your doors, getting a restraining order, moving somewhere and keeping it secret from him, etc. A book that helped me learn more about my fear and how it could help me was:
The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals that Protect Us From Violence
There are a couple of chapters on abusive partners and some helpful advice on how and whether to take more extreme actions such as restraining orders: the pros and cons.

(((((JelloFluff)))))

[youOme]

YouOme * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Jello: sending good vibes.

I think it's brave to reach out and ask for some help through this time... PC is the perfect place for it. I hope you get what your seeking, knowing the people of PC, I believe you will.

[chaotic13]

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He would freak out at this because it would mean i was not giving him credit for my achievement. Yes. You read that right. He feels he got me to where i am. What is worse is i believed that.. still do in some ways.

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Even if he played some roll in enabling you to attend school or provided some type of encouragement or support, achieving your degree is still your personal achievement. When you get your diploma you will see only one persons name on it. Next time you start giving him credit for this achievement remember all the hours you spent studying, attending class, writing papers, managing your work, school, family responsibilities, and jumping through various hoops. No one did all those things but you.

It does seem like you need to stay cool and wait the rest of this visit out. But when he leaves, it sounds like you need to take your personal protection to the next level and see legal assistance in making the separation wider. Sounds to me like friendship is not an option.

Hang in there!

[tulips30]

fluff, I feel like the only thing I can HONESTLY give you right now is all my support. I believe you have been give great ideas and thoughts here and I know your t. is being supportive. I have never been in your situation before, so any advice I would give would be just guessing how I would feel in your situation. I'm here to just say, pour it out and lots of us are here to listen and support you!

On that note, I will offer yet something else unrelated....

too late guys. i pushed. i shouldn't have. Restaurant. Me hysterical inside unable to overtly make a scene. Dead cold silence punctuated by him saying things like how i had taken advantage of him. i didn't want my food but didn't want to explain that to the waitress.. so i forced some down until the shaking in my hands forced me to stop trying to operate utensils. i sat and stared out the window until we were able to leave. i had forgotten my wallet and was afraid he would storm out and leave me there... i know, stupid.

he swore he wouldn't yell at me anymore if i talked to him... but he continued with the wildly inaccurate accusations all the way home.

On the turn of a dime he will start just gutting my character..everything about me.... it hurts so bad.

considering further seperation between us is no longer a possibility. i have not given in.. but i cannot go so far as to deal with attourneys and things of that degree.. it's beyond my ability still. (and no sunrise, you didn't downplay at all... your advice is very welcomed.. i am sorry i did not remember about your H's NPD and abuse )

maintaining "friendship" as far as one can with a serious NPD... i have to do whatever i have to do... tonight... lowering myself into the mud again.. allowing myself to be put down again.. well.. it's no fun.. but it kept me safer i think.

one different thing.. for a brief moment i got mad

t was very pleased that i stuck to my guns... that i didn't back down.. and i haven't yet.. its just so hard.

we go around and around.. i mean, H called me last night.. and left a message that was.. well, cheery

i think he has re-wound to a point at which he has a chance...

%#@&#! me... this is agony

[mlpHolmes]

Quote:
"t was very please that i stuck to my guns...that i didn't back down.. and i haven't" question: Is this bc your past relationship with H was HEALTHY or HARMFUL to YOU?

Then you state he "left a message,that was cheery, to a point at which he has a chance..." with you again. REALLY! Ah Manipulation. Has he done an incredible amt. of inner,psychological work that has transformed him? Someone who will NEVER again abuse you? Saying horrendous, hurtful things. He will NOW help to nurture you & help you grow to live your best life? Again same question: Would a future relationship with H be HEALTHY or HARMFUL to YOU? Please forgive my strong (but humble) opinion, I just care so very much about you, more than words could ever describe.

[Perna]

He only has a chance if that's what you want! Don't lose sight of what you want and need, Mzzy! That's all that matters.

Fluffy, you went into this week knowing that everything wasn't going to go perfectly. He has held true to his character (or lack thereof). So, you fell into your old way of acting? That doesn't mean that you are stuck there forever!

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On the turn of a dime he will start just gutting my character..everything about me.... it hurts so bad.

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((Fluffy)) I'm sure it does hurt like hell! He knows exactly what he is doing. I don't know what he said, how he 'gutted' your character but he is in the wrong. He doesn't even know you! Think of everything we have said here! If you were such a horrible person, we wouldn't be here supporting you. You are a wonderful person! Tell him that you don't know who he's talking about, but it isn't you.

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considering further seperation between us is no longer a possibility.

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Wait to make this decision until he is out of your house. When he is gone, it will be a definite possibility if not a necessity.

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considering further seperation between us is no longer a possibility.

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Then it was worth it. Your safety is most important now until the IT leaves.

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one different thing.. for a brief moment i got mad

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Good! I have been mad for more than a brief moment. This shows you that you have changed. KEEP YOURSELF SAFE. I can't wait until he is out of your house. I LOVE YOU!

i know... god do i know... forgive me for my poor wording. i dont want to stay.. i just waiver.. i dont want to live with him again.. i dont want to be his wife..... but i am not strong and i fail. i cant push like i would need to.. thats what i meant. i just cant keep telling him over and over.. for one thing i dont have the heart. Regardless of his NPD, abuse or anything else... i loved him and i care.

telling him these things has been some of the hardest things i have ever done.. causing pain to someone else hurts. Its hard because of that and fear.. that is what is hard.

i found this site... http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

and it talks about things which may have been written about H directly.. wish i had seen it several years ago.

mlp.. no worries babe.. no worries about strong language or opinion.. s'ok. In the beginning of this it would have caused me to retreat and be protective of him.. but not at this point.

soli... what i mean by "no further seperation" is a response to something someone (sunrise maybe?) else said about moving to the phase involving paperwork and lawyers, etc i cant do that part.. i cant move further than i have... this was the best i could do.

t had wanted me to shoot for status quo... to keep safe for one.. but also to just allow me to cope. i have not developed the skills to stand my ground or be sure of who i am when faced with crisis and someone aggressive... me blurting out that i want out.. that was such a random and unpredictable thing.. i dont know how to reinforce it and neither T or i really expected i'd have to keep doing it over and over like this..

[ECHOES]

Thinking of you!

I think his "well, cheery" message was proof that what you are doing is working. Congrats!

[tulips30]

Hi fluff, Just checking in to say hello and send some more long-distance support. It sounds to me like you ARE showing strength. You sure have a lot of people watching your back trying to help you stay focused. Sending you strong, healthy thoughts with

tulips

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soli... what i mean by "no further seperation" is a response to something someone (sunrise maybe?) else said about moving to the phase involving paperwork and lawyers, etc i cant do that part.. i cant move further than i have... this was the best i could do.

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Well, then it was good enough for me. You've done a wonderful job this week, Fluff. I'm truly proud of you! I love ya'!

[Perna]

How much longer are you "stuck" with him there?

{{{MzJello}}}

i'm sorry guys.. i am so terribly ill with a chest cold... i cant write a lot. Ask soli.. i was dumb as dirt in chat.

wanted to say thank you.. i mean when i say you guys have kept me going.. you guys and T

i appreciate it

he left tuesday perna

t says i need to avoid talking to him.. not answer the phone, etc
i am trying but i am not strong enough.. blurting out that it was over was kind of random and i dont know how to do something this planned.

i am confused by T.. he says he knows that i "cant" about some of this, that he wants me to think about what i might be able to do eventually.. but he doesn't tell me which things he knows i "cant" do and so i am confused and sometimes i feel like i am failing somehow.. maybe pressured? Not getting it right maybe.

but T has been a rock thru this.. made himself very available... has been encouraging and supportive... said a lot of meaningful things..

ok

i have to sleep. i cant breath. headache. fever. coughing and losing voice.

[tulips30]

Feel better soon honey.......sending hugs and warm chicken broth. Make sure you drink lots of fluids and plenty of rest

YOU DONE GOOD FLUFF......now you can relax a bit....

tulips

omg. what have i done? THAT is how i feel.. what have i done? i am alone. COmpletely alone.

i am mistrustful of T... he was very supportive.. but did he ever think about how i would be afterwards? Did he think about the pain? He is there but not there. i am sitting here sick and really down.. lonely.. where is he? yeah.. i know and no, i dont want him here... but i am alone tho right? Yeah.. T is there.. sure. Hope he's enjoying his weekend.

i know that sounds bad.. its not his fault. Not his job to care how my weekend goes. Hes agood guy. its just me

did i think i'd feel better? if i did i wasn't thinking straight.

im alone. totally alone.

i just dont have it in me to keep at this. The best i can do is maybe not always answer the phone. i just dont know exactly why i should fight so hard... i am deeply tired inside.

i just want someone to hold me.. be with me a while. i dont want T for that of course.. but i want to not be alone like this. Being lonely is tolerable.. being alone is not.

[Perna]

We're here, Fluff, for what we're worth. Stay close to here this weekend?

{{{MzJelloFluff}}}

[tulips30]

You had an extremely emotional, exausting time with your H. Don't forget that you had a lot of very stressful build up to the visit and your resources have been pretty much drained. You are what's called "running on empty". I don't think it is any surprise that you have the flu now. You didn't have any reserves and that "bug" saw you coming. Between the emotional & physical exhaustion, I would be surprised if you didn't feel depressed and alone.

I know this doesn't answer any of your questions or make it go away. But, I think you need to rest and give your physical & emotional self some permission to just let it all goooooooo....for a few days.

When you start feeling stronger, you will have a clearer head & perspective on everything. Meanwhile, we're here, we're listening. Give a yell when you need us and we'll keep checking on you.

[chaotic13]

[[Fluff]] Hope you are feeling better today.

i amstaying very close to PC this weekend perna.. very close (warning to fluff haters)

yeah tulips... T said stress often causes illness.. and he sheepishly asked me if i knew of any sources of stress in my life... grrrroooooaaan

i cant eat half of the time and the other half i overeat... i hope it just balances it...

should i be happy H didn't call? T would say yes.. but, right, he's happy at home and has someone to be with.

i've lost what was once my best friend. i've lost my hopes for so many things. Lost having someone just being there.

you guys are phenominal.

dont think i dont hear the advice and welll wishes.. i most certainly do. i appreciate every last bit of it. From sunrise's advice about the concrete issues of divorce, to perna's terribly corny jokes ( ).

you guys are the best