[chaotic13]

then sent an email saying I think its time to stop.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( chaotic13 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Stop therapy? Or stop talking about it?

Hang in there. It will get better.

[skeksi]

It's hard to share. (((chaotic13)))

(((((Chaotic))))))

[Mouse_]

Chaotic, Yes its very scary to give "details". I remember the first time my "details" escaped my long silence, I was afraid of what T would think of me. I didn't know how I could ever face her again. I wrote her a crisis email stating my fears which helped me before the next session, I needed her to know how I felt before I got there, just incase she "jumped" on me, which of course she wouldnt' have done. Well done!

[chaotic13]

Yes, it is very hard to share. Especially when afterwards you realize humiliating yourself by telling someone a few of the nastiest things you've done, yields nothing. I don't know what I was looking for. Being able to confess to some one you were a sick perverted punk does nothing but make you feel worse. In all honesty, I likely dished out just as much (if not more) other kinds of abuse than I received. I should be unhappy. I don't need to go to therapy anymore to understand why. Hearing different reasons and excuses doesn't change anything.

[Kiya]

((((((((((((Chaotic)))))))))))
My guess is that you are a different person now.
I don't know your situation, but when i told details of what i had done, t explained to me that i was under 18, still a kid, (even tho i didn't feel like one) and that the things i did that i felt made me a monster were done to protect myself or others. The perspective does help.
Hopefully i will never have to resort to those things again because i am healtiher now and can actually choose the relationships and the ppl i am with.
hope this helps to some degree.
don't lose faith in yourself chaotic.

[chaotic13]

Mouse,

First of all I'm kind of pissed that my T probed me for greater details yesterday. "What' sound? What smells? What physical sensations? She knew exactly what I was saying, this was not necessary. I don't think making me focus on these things and then trying to get me verbally describe it to her served any real benefit in my opinion other than make me feel more like a pig. So at this point I don't give a crap what she thinks of me. She was no different than so called childhood friends who cheered on the original insanity.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chaotic13 said:
Mouse,

First of all I'm kind of pissed that my T probed me for greater details yesterday. "What' sound? What smells? What physical sensations? She knew exactly what I was saying, this was not necessary.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Chaotic, I know how painful this must have been-- to admit something, only have to face further questioning about it... However, one thing I can assure you of, is that there is NO way your T knew "exactly" what you were saying. If a T doesn't ask 42,482 follow-up questions, then that T is making an assumption. For example, if you gathered up 12 people who all have the experence of, say, self-injury-- you will mostly likely hear 12 different stories. Sure, there will be similarities, but in your case, I really think your T was trying to get at what your experience means to YOU. People can never fully understand what another person's experience is, unless we ask.

I hope that you can continue the process with her. It sounds ilke you took a very big risk, and now you're feeling the pain from that. Hang in there.

[Mouse_]

Chaotic, I didnt know your T "forced" out the details. I didn't read that in your original post.. I've never had that experience, I was coming from my experience where time was the great revealer. I hope you find some peace in which ever way.

[chaotic13]

"Forced" might be a bit strong. Repeatedly asked would more accurately describe it.

Pink... there are some things that you say that most adults will know exactly what you are referring to. To say she was just avoiding making an assumption error... I'm not buying it. At one point when I refused to verbalize something she did it for me... "so he ______" Maybe she has no problem saying stuff... but I do... and I have problems here it said too. Maybe it is necessary that I can tolerate hearing things... I don't know.

All I know is at the moment... My skin is crawling and I feel filthy... Kiya the "you were just a small child being manipulated...." statements are just BS. At this point I see no reason to go back.

[Kiya]

Chaotic - i too hope with some time, some peace of mind will come to you.

[chaotic13]

Thank everyone. Sorry for being so *****y today. I just feeling a lot of f'ed up stuff today and am just inconsolable. I know I should have compassion for the little kid I was, but I don't. I just want to smack her for being so stupid. This in itself shows that I haven't progressed much from childhood. Then I just want to slap the adult me for being stupid enough to be sucked into a disclosing stuff that is long over and done with. For those of you wishing you could open-up, my message today is don't bother it just make you hate life more. Oh and if you have any illusions that your T might think, wow I push pretty hard better make sure she handling it OK, think again. They don't really give a crap what happens to you after the session. I think the 10 yr old already knew this, that way she stays under the bed.

[dalila]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
At one point when I refused to verbalize something she did it for me... "so he ______" Maybe she has no problem saying stuff... but I do... and I have problems here it said too. Maybe it is necessary that I can tolerate hearing things... I don't know.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

<font color="green">I think you have it right here, you cant say those things so you have not worked through it. I know how hard it is to deal with this stuff, I am still working on it. I find if I i cannot talk it over i cannot feel it and only though talking and feeling and working it through can I become stornger and be what I want and need to become. I refuse to live my life as a victim forever. I am going to find my way to health. It is a miserable path but living here without healing is worse.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
.. Kiya the "you were just a small child being manipulated...." statements are just BS.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
<font color="green"> So how old were you? How much experience did you have in the world - positive experience when these things happened? You were trained and even brainwashed into believing that this was how things are. Now you are an adult and you have started healing so you feel guilty... how long do you need to feel guilty? What purpose does your guilt serve?

Only you can answer such questions. I couldn't find the answers alone but perhaps you can. I am being a bit harsh but you are being a lot harsh on yourself.

Go back and ask your therapist what her goals in talking about this stuff in such detail is. You might be surprised you might find out that you do have to go down that ugly path or maybe you are right and she just wants to exploit you some more. </font>

[MissCharlotte]

((chaotic))

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Oh and if you have any illusions that your T might think, wow I push pretty hard better make sure she handling it OK, think again. They don't really give a crap what happens to you after the session. I think the 10 yr old already knew this, that way she stays under the bed.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I know my T cares how I handle things. And I bet yours does too. It sounds like you are your ten year old self here and she was really hurting. She doesn't trust T--a transference?

Take gentle care of yourself.

[sunrise]

(((((chaotic)))))

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chaotic13 said:
Hearing different reasons and excuses doesn't change anything.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Agreed. Cognitively, you may come up with many explanations, but this often does not provoke change or healing.

I hope you can tell your T how you interpreted her behavior towards you and how you felt after your revelations and after she "forced" you to give up details. Sending an email to her to tell her you quit does not work through any of this. If you can't talk to her in person about these things, then I think that shows you are not ready to quit! Did you tell her in your email what your experience of the session was? Or did you just tell her you are quitting?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
"Forced" might be a bit strong. Repeatedly asked would more accurately describe it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">The client can always decline to answer questions. The client can always change the topic. The client can always say, "back off, T!" This is setting boundaries. It's OK to do it. You need to let your T know your boundaries so she can respect them. If you get closer to your T and trust her further, you can relax your boundaries and allow her to come even closer. It's easy for me to say this, but not easy to do--I definitely am still learning. (My T says I have some of the most porous boundaries he has ever seen.)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I just want to slap the adult me for being stupid enough to be sucked into a disclosing stuff that is long over and done with.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Was it stupid because it made you feel bad? Would therapy be more effective if you didn't disclose things to your T but wore a mask?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
if you have any illusions that your T might think, wow I push pretty hard better make sure she handling it OK, think again. They don't really give a crap what happens to you after the session.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Are you certain your T did this to you deliberately? Sometimes T's don't know and need to be told when what they are doing is not helping you.

I'm so very sorry this session was so traumatic for you. I hope you can share your experience of what happened with your T and learn what her intent was. And perhaps hear an apology.... You know, there is nothing wrong with saying to T, "I felt such and such a way when you did that. I need you to apologize to me and promise you will never do that again." There's no guarantee what her answer will be, but there is nothing wrong with stating your needs.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You might be surprised you might find out that you do have to go down that ugly path or maybe you are right and she just wants to exploit you some more.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Dalila,TY,
It feels like I've been manipulated and exploited by my T, but my intelligent self is calling for proof of ill intent. Only at the moment I'm too troubled and confused to think straight.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I think you have it right here, you cant say those things so you have not worked through it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> This is hard to acknowledge too.

I hope my views on this session change and the dust settles. I hope I will eventually see the benefits from this exchange, because right now, its just made me feel a lot worse about myself.

Thanks again everyone--peace of mind would be nice at the moment.

[chaotic13]

Miss C, I am kind of experiencing a temper tantrum and not being very mature. I'm not trusting my T at this point. As for the transference, maybe. Maybe I am seeing her from my 10 yr old's perspective just another adult who should have know better, should have done "something", but I wasn't worth the bother.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The client can always decline to answer questions.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I did that. I described the details related to physical force, but refused to describe the sounds, smells, and sensations. For these questions I simply restated by response.At one point she just said one of the event for me. She wasn't mean, judgmental, impatient but it still echoed in my ears. I know again maybe I am being childish... but hearing it when it is related to me.. was just unbearable. I would have no problem saying these words or discussing this topic when it related to someone else. But when it relates to me it is just .. unbearable for some reason. I don't know why I am so intolerant and judgmental of myself. The thing is ... It didn't really matter that I didn't actually say the words; just being asked to focus and think about these details was overwhelming enough.

In email not I didn't just say I quit. I sent an email after the session indicating that I'd gotten nauseous and physically ill, just getting dish washing liquid on my hands while doing the dishes. I was freaking out. Is this what this type of therapy session is supposed to do to a person? Where is the healing in that? This is why I am confused and not trusting the process. Maybe I'm wrong for expecting a reply of some kind but .. if a patient of mine contacted me after a treatment session reporting that they are concern because there had been a dramatic increase in their symptoms. I think I would respond to them and at least say something encouraging..."Hey this is part of the treatment or this is common adverse event, but you'll be fine"... keep the faith I, know what I am doing, ... write the %#@&#! down and we will talk about it next session". Then I sent another email at 2 AM were is said.. I think it's time for me to stop. I don't know maybe I am just being a 10yr old here.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The client can always change the topic.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Did this too.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The client can always say, "back off, T!"

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I DID NOT DO THIS! And I should have. In fact last session she told me she wanted me to tell her to F'off if I thought she was crossing the line. But just like in my childhood, I had trouble seeing my boundary was being crossed until after the session and the fallout hits me. (Damn... I didn't realize this until just now.)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Was it stupid because it made you feel bad?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Well ,YES! ... now i guess the stupid stems from not sticking up for myself and telling her to stop pushing.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Are you certain your T did this to you deliberately?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
chaotic13 said:
At one point she just said one of the event for me. She wasn't mean, judgmental, impatient but it still echoed in my ears. I know again maybe I am being childish... but hearing it when it is related to me.. was just unbearable.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">You are not being childish. The adult in us can feel pain, get overwhelmed, be hurt--all of those things. You are an adult who has a right to feel those things. Feelings are not the sole province of children.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I don't know why I am so intolerant and judgmental of myself.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I don't know either and I think this is a big thing to explore in therapy. I like you a lot and I wish you could be kinder to yourself.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Maybe I'm wrong for expecting a reply of some kind

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I didn't realize that part of this was that you were expecting a reply and your T had given none. I hate that. You are right to expect a response to your email explaining your traumatic response to the session. It's a major deal and not time for T to play hard to get. (However, are you sure she is in town?)

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I don't know maybe I am just being a 10yr old here.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">No, you are being an adult, or maybe both simultaneously.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
The client can always say, "back off, T!"

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I DID NOT DO THIS! And I should have. In fact last session she told me she wanted me to tell her to F'off if I thought she was crossing the line.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">This technique kind of scares me, like she is trying to get a rise of you. I agree, this would not be therapeutic for me. It would seem like game playing to me, and I hate game playing or falsity of any kind. I would prefer the T to say to me, "you aren't very good at setting boundaries, let's explore that" and so we would and maybe I would gradually come to define my boundaries better, outside of therapy and maybe inside too.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Was it stupid because it made you feel bad?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Well ,YES! ...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">You know what, therapy sometimes makes you feel bad! The healing doesn't necessarily all take place in the same session in which you feel bad. It's a long process. You may have to go through quite a few sessions where you feel bad until you come out on the other side. I think you have expectations that every session should make you feel better. It isn't so.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
now i guess the stupid stems from not sticking up for myself and telling her to stop pushing.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Please don't call yourself stupid. Please don't blame yourself.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Are you certain your T did this to you deliberately?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I guess what I meant was that did T intend for you to feel the awful way you are feeling now, did she intend to traumatize you? If you think the answer is yes, I would check in with her on this and verify that is true. And then ask how she sees that as therapeutic. Do you think her style is too confrontational for you? Or that the confrontation is coming too soon in therapy, before she has built up trust?

chaotic, I can understand your reluctance to engage with your T again after this traumatic experience and her lack of response to your message. I hope she responds soon.

[pachyderm]

> Is this what this type of therapy session is supposed to do to a person? Where is the healing in that?

I have the same reaction sometimes. Isn't the therapist supposed to be able to modulate things so they don't get so out of control? Is the person even listening to what is happening? I really think the answer is "no" much of the time.

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Sunrise said:
You are not being childish. The adult in us can feel pain, get overwhelmed, be hurt--all of those things. You are an adult who has a right to feel those things. Feelings are not the sole province of children.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I would say this same thing to others and I really believe it. Yet some how I can't seem accept that it also applies to me.

Today I am looking all my ranting yesterday and I almost can't believe how much I truly hate that 10 yr old inside of me. And I mean "hate" and that is not a word I typically associate with. I can't think of anyone else (ever) that I would actually say that I hated. Even my abusers I have compassion, understanding, and forgiveness for, but nothing for myself. I would never feel this way about a child (even an axe-murder child). I know I've stated before that I wanted to get rid of the little girl ego state, bah, bah, bah... I just never realized until now how deeply I hate her. I guess I have some thinking to do on this issue.

TY

[chaotic13]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Pachy said:
Isn't the therapist supposed to be able to modulate things so they don't get so out of control?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I really did have this assumption, even after a year with the same T. I think I (my 10 yr old) really wanted some kind of reply from my T. And again for what ever reason, I feel really ashamed to have this want. However, my T has consistently not replied to my e-mails. She seems willing to accept them, print them out, and discuss them in the session; she doesn't reply to them. For me to even be checking my email looking for a response yesterday was a waste of time. I guess it was that child thinking, 'oh, will this time she know I am really hurt and it will be different.' NOT! This is another hate point for me... not being able to trust myself to manage stuff on my own.

I know I am being very mean to myself here. But I am just writing what I am truly feeling at the moment (right or wrong). Today the meanness jumped out at me, where yesterday I was too upset to see it.

Thank everyone for tolerating my rants.

[SpottedOwl]

(((chaotic13)))

I'm so sorry you had such a difficult session.

Sometimes I think words are too "logical" to express the depth of some experiences. I don't know why, but after reading this thread I had an idea for you. Maybe if using words is too much, you could use some art to express your feelings.

Grab some markers, crayons, paints...and just draw. Draw your frustration at your T, or at your 10 yr old self, or even just draw something beautiful in your life. Whatever you feel the need to express.

many, many
Owl

[MissCharlotte]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Maybe I am seeing her from my 10 yr old's perspective

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yeah, that is so freaking hard. I don't now which is worse--the original experience or the re-experience?

(((((((Chaotic))))))))

Can you do something special for you today?