T and Teacher T are meeting at 10 today.

I think this is making me realize how much I don't trust Teacher T yet. I am SURE she is going to go in there and turn T against me. Like, she has figured out that I am actually "bad" but T likes me too much to notice, and she's going to go in there and make him see the truth. Ugh. It makes me literally feel like throwing up.

T left me a message yesterday saying one thing he can promise is that their meeting won't change anything between us. But of course, this is before the meeting. Once he knows how bad I really am, it's inevitable things will change between us.

Wow, this sucks.

[sittingatwatersedge]

(((((((((((((( E M ))))))))))))))

'ere now, wot's all this?
you are not bad; you are a generous, nurturing, caring person, EM.
I should know!!
when will you see T next?

Well, they are meeting right now

T called me and we talked for about 15 minutes about my fears. He is going to call this afternoon to let me know what happened.

I took two klonopin so I am a weird combination of unbelievably sleepy and super busy, which is.....fine I guess.

blech

[pachyderm]

((((Protecting EM from the Monsters))))

[Sannah]

EM, is this a scenario that has happened to you in the past?

T told me he would try to call during his break from 2 - 2:30 to let me know how it went. He hasn't called. I have another phone appt about my son and some medical issues at 2:45, so it looks like the phone call with T isn't going to happen right now

He said if he didn't call between 2 and 2:30 he would try to call around 5:45 - he has to be somewhere at 6.

I seriously, SERIOUSLY don't think I'm going to make it. I've been keeping so, so, so busy all day to stay distracted, and now I'm just out of steam. I really thought we would talk at 2

My paranoid mind is thinking that it's too complicated to talk about on the phone, and he's just going to wait until my appointment tomorrow to talk to me about it.

I'm a mess.

And Sannah, to answer your question - my mom always told me she would kill me if I told, that no one would believe me, etc. etc. I know there is some old mom stuff mixed up in here. When I was growing up if two adults were talking about me- and I had told one of them all of my secrets - it would NOT have been a safe, good situation. I have this terror that I think is kind of related to that.

I really don't know what to do.

((( earthmama )))

Breathe sweetie. You need to trust T.

He has, and always has had, your best interest at heart. And even if Teacher T said terrible things about you, T would tell her to take her misconstrued Teacher T opinions back to where they came from.

You are frightened of the repercussions of telling and that is totally understandable. What you will learn though, is that it's OKAY to tell T everything and anything and he will stand steady with you. You are safe with him.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by earthmama

my mom always told me she would kill me if I told, that no one would believe me, etc. etc. I know there is some old mom stuff mixed up in here. When I was growing up if two adults were talking about me- and I had told one of them all of my secrets - it would NOT have been a safe, good situation. I have this terror that I think is kind of related to that.

I'm sorry EM . It will be okay. You are not going to get in trouble and you are not going to lose T...........

[deliquesce]

sweetie - i dont know what time it is over there, but did you get in touch with T? i hope everything went ok. ((((EM))))

I did finally talk to T for about 30 minutes. He did most of the talking. I am angry about how things turned out. Mainly at Teacher T. It's kind of a long story.

Oh well, more &^$* to work on in therapy, huh?

Really, I'm SO mad. Which is interesting, since the outcome I expected was someone being mad at me. I don't know which is worse. Anger makes me want to do bad things to me. Anger turned inward....

I guess I'll try to keep the anger where it belongs, which is clearly not on me in this situation. I hate anger! I hate it.

Thanks for the hugs and checking in.

[coconut64]

(((((((((((((((((((EM))))))))))))))))))) I'm sure T has your best interest in mind and so does teacher T. The thing is that you're still working on buiding trust with Teacher T. For me this would be too remiscent of my parents talking about me, it would scare me too. Just try to hold on to the trust you have with your T. He knows how concerned you are about this meeting, I'm sure he will call as soon as he can today. Let us know how it goes.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by earthmama

I did finally talk to T for about 30 minutes. He did most of the talking. I am angry about how things turned out. Mainly at Teacher T. It's kind of a long story.

Oh well, more &^$* to work on in therapy, huh?

Really, I'm SO mad. Which is interesting, since the outcome I expected was someone being mad at me. I don't know which is worse. Anger makes me want to do bad things to me. Anger turned inward....

I guess I'll try to keep the anger where it belongs, which is clearly not on me in this situation. I hate anger! I hate it.

Thanks for the hugs and checking in.

hey bubs,
i am here and listening if you would like to let it out. totally up to you, but if you want to vent to someone - post here or pm me.
anger can be a good thing, sometimes, i think. or at least - i was never allowed to express it when i was younger, so now it feels good to be able to at least feel it, acknowledge that it is real. you don't need to hurt yourself because you are feeling angry. just sit with it and breathe through it. or if you need to do something physical - go for a run, pull weeds out from the garden (my personal fave ) or tear up an old phone book.
come back and let us know how you are going.
((((EM)))))

I'll try to explain what is going on, although I don't know if I can make it make sense, and I'm not even sure why I'm so angry, but with all of the wise minds on this board, maybe someone else can make sense of it

SO. Teacher T told T how deep I get in meditation - I know she is very...impressed?? (not sure if that is the right word) - but I have been meditating for years, so I've had a lot of practice. Plus, I'm so dissociative, I'm not sure I'm not just sitting there dissocating half of the time. Anyhow, she said this "energy" comes up and she wants to work with it and with me (which is what I thought the point was).

The discussion turned to our roles - T, Teacher T and Me. Teacher T and T decided that Teacher T and I have been on a "slippery slope" where she is actually providing some therapy to me. I guess the reasons I am angry are:
1. When we started this endeavor, I worked really REALLY hard to figure out everyone's roles. This was a huge, enormous deal to me. I was so scared of crossing a boundary or something. Many e-mails were exchanged about it between me and Teacher T and she finally told me "I am letting you off the hook. You don't have to worry about this. I can keep track of the roles, and I will make sure that what I am providing is not therapy". She encouraged me to e-mail whenever I want - I mean REALLY encouraged it - and was super helpful for a while. In the past month or so, she has basically stopped communicating with me outside of class, and I thought it was because I did something wrong and I've really been worrying and suffering - and it turns out that she decided without telling me that she had the "roles" confused and was changing her approach. I AM SO MAD, because this is what I was afraid would happen - i would open up and trust and the rug would get pulled out from under me, which is why I wanted the roles so well defined in the first place. I told this to T and he said "See, you were the wise one in this whole thing". Well F*** that! I don't want to be RIGHT. I want to be SAFE and HEARD and NOT ABANDONED.
2. Teacher T changed her "role" without telling me. I know we will talk about it now, but it's just one of those crappy therapy fears coming true: "If I trust you, you will abandon me". I can't BELIEVE it. Seriously.
3. I don't know how to move forward.
4. ?????????????????????????????

There's more, I think, but my kids need me. I doubt this makes any sense. I have an appointment with T tomorrow, and I don't know WHO I am mad at. I am so mad though. What do I DO with this anger??????????????

I hate this. I'm sure I'll be back on later to rant about this some more. I am just so mad.

[ECHOES]

((((((((((( em )))))))))))

I expereinced something similar and I was angry but mostly just hurt. I felt used in some way. I felt manipulated ("Don't worry, I know what's best and this hurtful thing is what's best. Trust me, this is the right thing for you. You may not understand it now but this is the way it will be. Sometimes we don't get answers..." blah blah blah. I felt like I was of interest to the person in a real and sincere way, but then after this it felt like it must have been primarily for their own agenda. I felt like a toy, taken out and enjoyed, then put back.

Shame on those who get in over their heads or go down a road they wish they hadn't and then don't know how to gently take another direction, but instead make an abrupt and jolting shift and hurt us very badly. "Oops, my bad!" doesn't even begin to cut it.

Sorry I went on so. I really feel for you and I hope good things can come from this and that you feel calm and secure soon.

[winterbaby]

Oh that sounds so terribly painful! I would be furious, hurt, betrayed and upset.No, it is NOT your job to keep the roles straight, it was theirs and Teacher T
I guess screwed it up. Not your fault, I think, for your own sake, you need to express to both of them how you feel. And receive an apology from both of them. If it were me I'd probably revoke the consent to discuss myself at this point. I think that they should have spoken to you first, before speaking to eachother, just my opinion but I think sometimes we put too much trust into the 'system' that everyone knows what they are doing. In the end, sometimes we have to take some of that control back. I'm sorry this happened to you and try to really express yourself tomorrow. It's ok to be angry and I'm sure you'll sort it out with both of them.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by earthmama

I'll try to explain what is going on, although I don't know if I can make it make sense, and I'm not even sure why I'm so angry, but with all of the wise minds on this board, maybe someone else can make sense of it

SO. Teacher T told T how deep I get in meditation - I know she is very...impressed?? (not sure if that is the right word) - but I have been meditating for years, so I've had a lot of practice. Plus, I'm so dissociative, I'm not sure I'm not just sitting there dissocating half of the time. Anyhow, she said this "energy" comes up and she wants to work with it and with me (which is what I thought the point was).

The discussion turned to our roles - T, Teacher T and Me. Teacher T and T decided that Teacher T and I have been on a "slippery slope" where she is actually providing some therapy to me. I guess the reasons I am angry are:
1. When we started this endeavor, I worked really REALLY hard to figure out everyone's roles. This was a huge, enormous deal to me. I was so scared of crossing a boundary or something. Many e-mails were exchanged about it between me and Teacher T and she finally told me "I am letting you off the hook. You don't have to worry about this. I can keep track of the roles, and I will make sure that what I am providing is not therapy". She encouraged me to e-mail whenever I want - I mean REALLY encouraged it - and was super helpful for a while. In the past month or so, she has basically stopped communicating with me outside of class, and I thought it was because I did something wrong and I've really been worrying and suffering - and it turns out that she decided without telling me that she had the "roles" confused and was changing her approach. I AM SO MAD, because this is what I was afraid would happen - i would open up and trust and the rug would get pulled out from under me, which is why I wanted the roles so well defined in the first place. I told this to T and he said "See, you were the wise one in this whole thing". Well F*** that! I don't want to be RIGHT. I want to be SAFE and HEARD and NOT ABANDONED.
2. Teacher T changed her "role" without telling me. I know we will talk about it now, but it's just one of those crappy therapy fears coming true: "If I trust you, you will abandon me". I can't BELIEVE it. Seriously.
3. I don't know how to move forward.
4. ?????????????????????????????

There's more, I think, but my kids need me. I doubt this makes any sense. I have an appointment with T tomorrow, and I don't know WHO I am mad at. I am so mad though. What do I DO with this anger??????????????

I hate this. I'm sure I'll be back on later to rant about this some more. I am just so mad.

((((((((((((((((((((((((Earthy)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I understand anger. SERIOUSLY.
I used to break things. A lot of things. I've been in trouble with the law even. This wasn't so far long ago...
Breaking things didn't work though... And the anger was still there.
But, now what makes sense is talking to my T. There I work out feelings without doing stupid stuff that only gets me in trouble.
Hugz are way better anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--Sam

[SpottedOwl]

(((earthmama)))

Anger does not have to be a bad thing. It is a powerful feeling, so it can be scary, but it can also be empowering. I'm really proud of you for confronting all of this. Maybe this anger is helping you to actually face this problem of communication with Teacher T, giving you strength to stand up for what *you* know is right?

It sounds like Teacher T might have been triggered, because it is not very professional to just change her mode of contact with no explanation. In other words, Teacher T needed a meeting with T because of *her* and not anything wrong with you.

In the past month or so, she has basically stopped communicating with me outside of class, and I thought it was because I did something wrong and I've really been worrying and suffering - and it turns out that she decided without telling me that she had the "roles" confused and was changing her approach.

This bothers me. It saddens me that you would assume you did something wrong and torture yourself over it. You deserve so much better than that..for yourself!

Remember who you are -- you are a kind, loving, and powerful being. You have strong instincts and so much inner strength I don't think it can be quantified. Let that anger feed that strong and powerful woman inside of you, and give her a voice. A voice so that you can speak up for what is right and not suffer in silence because of another's failings.

Be safe and many hugs or I'll hold the punching bag if you need it

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by earthmama

Teacher T and T decided that Teacher T and I have been on a "slippery slope" where she is actually providing some therapy to me.

Big f*cking deal. Sorry, but that pisses me off, that they would overreact to Teacher T's giving you a little support of her own. Deal with it, therapists! Don't make Earthmama suffer because of your discomfort or role confusion. Grrrrrrrrrr.

In the past month or so, she has basically stopped communicating with me outside of class

With no explanation? Well, that's adult. That's communicative. NOT!

it turns out that she decided without telling me that she had the "roles" confused and was changing her approach

So she changed without talking to you about it? What is her problem? That just seems so basic and courteous. Again, I'm sorry, but your Teacher T seems really inconsiderate. Does she actually have training as a therapist?

"See, you were the wise one in this whole thing".

At least your T gets it, even if it's not helping you feel safe.

Teacher T changed her "role" without telling me.

I guess what seems really bad to me about this is that not only did she change her role and not tell you, but she chose to tell your T about it! You should have been the first one to know.

I don't know how to move forward.

If it were me, I would immediately revoke consent for Teacher T and your regular T to talk to each other about you. Teacher T has shown that she can't be trusted with this privilege. If she needs to talk about you, shes needs to learn to be direct and speak with the client about her concerns. Sheeeesh! (Is she really a therapist?) Do you think this means you will be ending your work with Teacher T? It is such a huge rupture, how can it be mended? She won't talk to you outside of your classes because she's so worried she might provide therapy, so it seems impossible to fix if there is no communication permitted. I think she owes you an apology bigtime, but it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't give one.

What do I DO with this anger??????????????

I don't know. It's a problem of mine too. I am really just learning to know when I am angry and to express it a little occasionally. I really don't know what to do with the feeling of anger. Basically, when I feel it, I just want to get rid of it, and I don't know how. I hope you can find something to do with your anger. My T says anger can power one's fierceness, and it is good to be fierce. To stand up for what you believe in. And hold your boundaries firm. I hope your anger helps you with this and I hope your T has some suggestions tomorrow on how to proceed. If I were your T, I would be angry at Teacher T. She has f*cked things up with one of his dearest clients and now he is left to deal with this and try to make things right.

Sorry about going on and on.... I just feel so bad you were subjected to this, EM. It makes me angry she treated you this way.

It's 3am and I can't sleep! Actually, I finally slept for a little while but then had a dream I wanted to write down, so here I am.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU to everyone for validating my anger. I am not used to being angry, and if I am I turn it on myself...but this time, feeling anger feels like the "right" thing to feel and I do feel like I have it directed at the right person (not me!!). I see T in 6 hours, so I guess I will be able to start working this out.

I have no idea how to multi-quote and I'm kind of out of it but...sunny, yes, she IS actually a T. My T says she is a GOOD T.?!?!?! I really don't know what happened... ha, or even if my T thinks she is a good T anymore!

I e-mailed her last night and told her I was angry, and asked if we could e-mail about it - she said I could e-mail her but she wouldn't e-mail back and we could talk next time we see each other in person. Whatever.

Well, it just sucks. I am going to try to do what Spotted Owl said and let my anger give me a voice. I already feel myself stuffing it, and I do think I will re-read all of this before I see T tomorrow. I'm way too good at stuffing my feelings.

I'm going to try to get some sleep. The things everyone said here were really, really helpful.... more than you can imagine. Thanks...

Originally Posted by sunrise

Do you think this means you will be ending your work with Teacher T? It is such a huge rupture, how can it be mended? She won't talk to you outside of your classes because she's so worried she might provide therapy, so it seems impossible to fix if there is no communication permitted. I think she owes you an apology bigtime, but it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't give one.

Just wanted to add....RIGHT! I really don't know if this can be fixed without communicating. Makes my head spin. How can we repair a rupture if we can't talk? I don't see how processing this with T can possibly fix the situation with her - which is disappointing, because she was actually giving me VERY helpful spiritual guidance before everything started unraveling.

I don't know. I guess I'll just see what time brings. Blah. I hate that.

[pachyderm]

I am reminded of the saying of people who characterized themselves as survivors of the mental health system, particularly several years ago:

"Nothing about us without us."

That is, don't treat us without including us in the decision process. Anyway, EM, I think you are getting a good grasp on all this!

[peaches100]

Earthmama,

I also would be very hurt and angry. It is very hard on the client when a t has allowed a certain amount of intimacy and communication and then decides to pull back (for whatever reason). It is especially hurtful when the reason wasn't any wrongdoing on your part. Teacher T probably likes you very much and truly wanted to help. . .to the point where she overstepped her role with you (or your regular t felt that teacher t overstepped her role with you).

T's are supposed to guard against boundary crossings, but it does happen sometimes. Then, by the time they realize it, they try to re-establish the boundaries, which feels very much like an abandonment to the client. It reopens old abandonment wounds. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. Teacher t needs to take responsibility for this happening, apologize, and find a way to heal this rupture with you. You have every right to be hurt and angry, and I think that unless you talk about it with her (and probably also with regular t), it could affect your trust and the therapeutic relationship.

How do you personally feel about this? Do you agree that teacher t was providing therapy? Did it feel like a boundary crossing or cause any obstacles to your work with regular t? Did either t explain to you what exactly teacher t did that was a boundary crossing? Was it allowing email contact? Something else? You deserve to know.

[vienna]

EM,

I am so sorry to hear about this. I too question how it will be worked out, since you can't seem to have direct communication with Teacher T. I wonder, after you've talked to your T, maybe you could have a session where Teacher T came as well, and your T could help facilitate a discussion? I don't know if that would help, or if it's even appropriate.

I will be thinking of you and hoping you can work through this. I wanted to let you know I was reading - your comments to me are always so helpful, and even though I'm not sure how to help, I wanted to let you know I was thinking of you.

hugs,
vienna

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by sunrise

...... If it were me, I would immediately revoke consent for Teacher T and your regular T to talk to each other about you. Teacher T has shown that she can't be trusted with this privilege. If she needs to talk about you, shes needs to learn to be direct and speak with the client about her concerns. Sheeeesh! (Is she really a therapist?)

Sunrise this is excellent. If it were ME, I wouldn't be able to get over TeacherT's numerous problems/errors and I would terminate her. Yoicks thinking of what you have been put through, then and now, is making me burn too. grrrrr

Some of your anger can be de-fused by physical exertion, if you are capable, like washing a floor by hand (my grandmother's old solution), or maybe just take a sofa pillow and go for a drive like I do. Park somewhere that is safe but where you won't be seen by people passing by (a church parking lot, maybe, that's what I use) and yell at Teacher T and hit that poor pillow till you are sick of hitting. tell her how frustrated and angry and yes, insulted you are that she has messed you over.
Or......... just vent here and ask T tomorrow for better ideas on what to do with anger, he probably will have some good ones.
please be careful, you said that being mad makes you think of hurting yourself, don't do that. Yell here - we are all wanting to absorb the sound waves and help you. <<hugs>>

[Sannah]

Hi EM, sorry that this caused you so much distress. Big trigger, huh? Teacher T was definitely wrong. This is getting worked out though and now you have all the info. Everything is out in the open. You are angry and have every right to your anger. Now you can go to therapy and work this out.

The bright side of this (sorry, I'm an extreme optimist ) is that a trigger has been pulled up for you and now you are problem solving it and working on being able to handle your anger. This is worth about 6 months of therapy. You will be stronger because of this!