Honest question?

I've been reading in the relationships forum that many people (mostly men) think that if you're married that you're obligated (meaning to me, forced) to have sex with your spouse. I want to be in a relationship someday, maybe even married...but I don't want to be forced into sex through twisted psychological warfare.

It's that sort of thinking that would make me more ashamed to have sex and of my sexuality in general. All I'll be good for is pleasing someone else? And what if I'm not good at that?! And what if I'm not good enough, unable to physically do something they ask, or not willing to have sex 100% of the time because, hey, sometimes I'm in pain or really depressed? But if I really loved this person, then I should just roll over and take it, right? That's what guys believe correct? That's what both genders believe ultimately, right? And if I don't just roll over, they'll just go cheat on me and/or leave me.

This is the same in relationships before marriage too, isn't it? How long will someone wait before they say, forget this, I can go get sex/intimacy somewhere else! Do you know how much pressure that puts on people already terrified of intimacy?

((End))

Probably most people would expect a marriage to be sexual, but it's not compulsory. Marriage without sex does exist, but you'd better make it very clear to your boyfriend that sex is not on the menu before you marry him.

Sex is wonderful, and I hope one day you fill find it so. But it's not everything and some people simply don't want it.

I've read the very same threads you have and nowhere have I seen the message that sex is forced / obligatory and we should roll over and take it. If it is the norm within a marriage then at the end of the day, the spouse cannot be blamed for expecting it though.

I believe you have a very skewed percepetion regarding what the posters are seeking support for regarding this issue.

Like CE said, there are consenual sexless marriages, it is an option, but the people you are referring to didn't sign up for that option. Most weren't even forewarned that it is preferencial.

For intimacy to suddenly be ripped away from you for no apparant reason and no clear way of getting it back is a very big deal. People feel rejected, abandoned, fear they aren't good enough for their spouse. So just like sex can traumatize people with intimacy issues, suddenly taking it away can be traumatizing for those without.

Its not just a physical release that they are seeking, they are feeling disconnected and lonely within their marriages. If it was purely an "I'm horny" issue, masturbation or cheating would suffice. But no, these people want to feel connected to, and wanted by their spouses.

Its vital to put these topics on the table before making a lifelong comittment, so that both parties are entering into the marriage with their eyes open.

Sadly it seems too many people either don't discuss, or think their partners will adapt to their way eventually. Which ultimately leads to misery on both sides because neither's needs are being met, and they are essentially incompatable.

I believe if you really are inlove it shouldn't be a deal breaker. Sorry you feel such pressure! I have at times felt pressured and since I am a ppl pleaser have gone along with it. But with time I am more willing now to just say no. You see, I have BPD and when depressed I really am not interested! But them when feeling good I have a VERY high libido.

Don't feel pressured and don't worry about what other ppl do. Do whatever is comfortable for you

Unfortunately for those who have issues with intimacy, sex and intimacy are a big part of a romantic relationship. Certainly no one is suggesting that anyone should force anyone to do anything. In fact, a partner only doing it out of obligation is a pretty big turn off (for me anyway). But really, when you're in a relationship with someone, sex is kind of what you sign up for. Without that, you have a friendship. Friendships are great... but do not fulfill people's needs for romantic relationships.

If I walk into a restaurant, I expect to be served food. If the restaurant doesn't serve food, I'd leave it. I'm not forcing the restaurant employees to serve me food, but food was kind of one of the biggest factors in why I came in. Sure, there are other great things I like about the restaurant. It has a great atmosphere and the employees are really nice. But without serving food, it just feels kind of pointless for me to be there.

It's not that I want a sexless relationship/marriage, but if there's too much pressure to have sex too quickly or too much, then I will feel forced into doing it, which would destroy any trust or emotional intimacy if there was any. To me, sex/intimacy/whatever is always forced and against my will and I have no say in the matter. Is it too much to ask someone to wait long enough for me to feel safe and to ask my permission before touching me in any way, at least the first time? Maybe not the most romantic, but at least then I'll feel like I have a choice and that how I feel is actually important to someone.

I've never been in a relationship mostly because of this and because of the fear that I'll just say yes to whatever the other person wants whether I want to or not—which will happen, I won't say no. Since the relationship would be pointless to the other person if I did say no, right? I really don't have the right to protest. Am I even really allowed to say no if I don't want the other person to just leave?

Oh well, it's good to understand the other viewpoint. I do understand that sex/intimacy separates a friendship from a relationship, I just don't want to forced into it without any choice.

Nor should you be. That's not love. Love isn't just rolling over and taking it. If it helps, I'm happily married and there is no psychological warfare.

This is why I like to read the wedding stories in the New York Times. It sounds like some of these people know each other for a pretty long time - years, even - before they hop in the sack together. At first that sounded incredible to me. I felt rushed (even tho I'm not dating!). But now I feel like I can take things at my own pace.

Sex in a marriage is beneficial but in no way should either partner be "obligated" to do it. I've always felt this way. Was married to someone who used the "obligation" statement on me many a time.

I have to add further... that if anyone is obligated and forced, it is not love it's control. Sex, in marriage, in any relationship MUST always be mutual. Sure one should want to give to the other sexually and fill their needs, but I'm of the mindset that when one is pushed and made to feel obligated, it is harder to want to do it in the first place!

That's exactly how I feel! If I feel forced into it, I'm not going to want to do it at all. The problem is, I'm not sure how I'll ever be in a situation where I don't feel forced into it...at least without the other person waiting too long.

I have no idea how long it would take being in a relationship before I would feel safe enough that it would actually feel mutual to me. I don't know if anyone I potentially date would understand...as it extends to kissing/cuddling etc. It's not that I don't want to do it, I just don't want it to lead to something more before I'm ready and I know I won't be able to stop it. Would someone understand that they won't even be allowed close to me or alone with me until I can trust that they'll respect my boundaries and not go any farther than kissing/cuddling etc.? I mean, it's common for people to kiss on the first date...it's expected to get physical really fast. I suppose I wouldn't be so afraid if I could defend myself or if I could trust that someone would listen to me and consider my feelings too.

When I grew up, I was exposed to the attitude of a woman does what the guy says if she knows what's good for her (and since she's a woman, she doesn't know what's good for her, so she has to do as she's told). Case closed.

I honestly have trouble trusting that someone physically stronger than me and who is capable of hurting me, would willing choose not to hurt me. Unless he's terrified of me and I tried intimidation for a long time when dealing with male classmates in college—obviously not healthy, but I really don't know how to trust that someone won't hurt me, especially if they see as weak.

I only just noticed this. I think it's sad if you believe a long term relationship is simply friendship with added sex. I think it's unrealistic if you aren't willing to weather some dry spells.

That's why, building up the relationship, the friendship, the romance, the intimacy, and communicating to one another, is a key component to taking it to the sexual level.

Forced and Obligated sex, are no fun.

Would you be able to determine, if you were with a healthy partner, from the get go? Would you be able to spot a relationship, that doesn't feel right, before you get into the bedroom aspect?

A lot of the complaints, I have seen/heard, through the years, is an issue of 'withholding', not necessarily 'dry spells', busy times, oops-wow, it's really been that long moments, no, that's not what I perceive some of the concerns I've seen/heard voiced, through the years. There's a huge difference.

I used, to be people pleasing. There's two extremes, in the bedroom, where unhealthy relationships are concerned. Mine, bordered on the other side of the equation. My former marriage, that is. There's sexless marriages, and oversexed marriages(not of the mutual kind, where I am discussing the extremes of marriages/relationships here, for this point)

If you are worried, about this, keep an eye out, for other 'controlling' behaviors, guilt trips, et al.

A healthy relationship, involves mutual consent. No head games. No punishing behaviors.

And I really hope, that you meet that someone special, who will wait, and ask and talk to you about it. It stands to reason, if you are pondering how to know you won't be in this position, you are setting yourself up to not be put in that position. Know thyself!!(<--Sun Tzu reference) Good for you

I think I am aware of what you are referring to, where this is coming from and why you are fearful (I am sorry you were raised also to think women were less-than. I hope you are working on knowing deep down that is NOT true).

The most important thing in any potentially romantic relationship is that you take things slowly. No one should EVER feel pressured to do anything they dont want. Especially sex.

The essential ingredients are honesty, mutual respect, communication and (finally) commitment. These elements help lead to the "big one": trust. If any of these 4 elements are missing, the relationship most likely won't work out because then (unmet) expectations and second guessing are involved.

If after a time, when you feel comfortable, it is important to share your thoughts and feelings about intimacy with your S/O. You will be able to do that when you feel trust. Try not to pressure yourself or rush yourself. There are really good guys out there. When you feel you can trust one enough to share, give him a chance. You may be surprised

I think one of the big problems these days regarding romantic relationships is that people are in such a hurry, they don't talk. They don't talk about the big things and the things that are important to them. They don't take that risk out of fear, or immaturity, or feelings of embarrassment, and then get entangled in marriage and then have to face it at some point when it is much more difficult to handle.

Deal-breakers for each person should be discussed prior to getting married. And if we are too embarrassed or scared to share these things, we probably should not be with that person in the first place.

Unmet expectations and lack of real communication (disrespect and fear) are what cause failures and breakdowns, like wandering eye syndrome, emotional infidelity, cheating and extramarital affairs.

My dear, take things slow, and when the right man comes along and the right time pops up, you will feel it.

(ps, a huge dealbreaker for me in a relationship is if the communication broke down and my S/O or I were unable to discuss what was going on with us in the "big deal" department. That only leads to speculation, unhappiness and insecurity for the other party and that is not a loving, caring thing to put our partner through)

Yeah, no one tells me anything it seems...apparently I went out on a date several years ago (it was news to me...I'm clueless and don't automatically assume these things) and I think he wanted to kiss me at the end or something, but I got scared, said goodnight and ran off.

The point is, all of this stuff is assumed. Everyone else knows what's going on. And I can't just ask because I'll look stupid either way (if it is a date, I'm stupid for not realizing it, and if it isn't I'm stupid for thinking they would ever like me that way).

So, it's difficult to be honest and communicate because my opinion is always wrong or stupid or they don't care what I have to say. Or I'm just talking to a giant wall. Guys (except for a small handful that I've met throughout my life) don't care what I have to say, let alone how I feel. I'm either ugly or stupid. Whatever. I know why—I threaten they're masculinity. I was always more masculine than effeminate and I was the favorite of a lot of my professors and used that to my advantage. I make them feel small, but that's ok, most of them were.

But it's still difficult to communicate because of embarrassment, being called stupid or that I'm over-reacting or it doesn't really matter because they won't listen anyway.

One other question—when should deal-breakers be discussed when forming a relationship (pre-marriage)

There are no stupid questions. And if anyone tells you so, walk away. I know it is hard to speak up for yourself ... try to be kind to yourself, though. Considering the way you were raised, and the description of the role models in your life, it will take time to feel comfortable...when we move outside our comfort zone, it feels awkward.

I am sort of old-fashioned and think that men spend time with women in their free time when they have an interest. Whether it be romantic or otherwise. But in personal time, more often than not, it is safe to assume it is a romantic interest if they are interested they will continue to want to spend time with you. With men, it is pretty simple

(Maybe some other members here can weigh in on this)

Discussing "dealbreakers" ... when you feel comfortable to broach the subject, bring it up. Trust yourself. Take a deep breath, and find a way that is most comfortable for you. Talk about what is important to you. People are most attractive when they are human. I think speaking from the heart is beautiful. I think when someone is real and speaking from their heart, or talking about something that is important to them, they are beautiful. Deceit (to me) is what is unattractive ... wherher it be to oneself or others.

My fiance traveled quite a bit, so he and I used to write letters to each other. When we both knew we were in it for the long term, we would ask each other how we felt about the "big" things. It was actually kind of fun! Some thing we felt a little embarrassed to share, but we loved each other so it was worth the risk.

Some couples go to their pastor or rabbi or cleric for pre-wedding counseling. Some couples go to couples therapy before they get married if one member is having a hard time bringing things up or even just to talk certain things out with a moderator. But that usually happens down the road.

I do believe in monogamy myself. So if I do decide to be intimate with someone (however long into a relationship), I do bring that up. And then we talk about it. For instance, if I am attracted to someone and they are with someone else, I will not be with them. If I am with someone and they are not seeing anyone else, if we are not in a committed relationship, I want to know if they are with someone else, because that would put the brakes on things for me. If they think I am being weird or whatever, I dont care. That just tells me we arent right for each other.

The bottom line is that in any circumstance, I want my S/O to be honest with me and talk to me. I expect them to give me the opportunity to make a decision. Not make it for me by omitting things.

I have written this before in other threads, but I feel once the trust is broken, it is very difficult to get it back.

(Ps, you are not the Amazing Kreskin. Nobody can reasonably expect you to just "know" things, honey. Everyone is different. That is why it is so important to talk!)

It's not really about my deal-breakers as I really don't have any (I'm not in any position to be picky)...it would be about theirs. I don't want to get emotionally invested in a relationship just to find out if anything I do, say, or am is a deal-breaker.

I also feel the way I look naked will be a deal-breaker, but that's difficult to really talk about (or show really) before having sex and I would really want to get that out of the way as quickly as possible so they can move on and not make fun of the way I look somewhere down the road.

But then, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling someone about all these things...but I also can't get close without them knowing because I don't want to get close if I was just going to be rejected anyway. Might as well get the rejection out of the way early.

I think I got way ahead of myself talking about marriage...I'd be lucky if anyone would ever even go on a date with me, let alone a second date, let alone refer to me as their "girlfriend" (I think it would be incredibly weird to be referred to in such a way anyway), let alone marry me.

Take one step at a time. Do you have a T that you can talk to so you can work on raising your self esteem? You sound like an intelligent, lovely person with lots to offer. But you have to see the beauty in you first. And have confidence in yourself and what you have to bring to the table

No, I'm fed up with therapy. The last therapist (which wasn't my first choice, but the only one available at the time) made me feel stupid and humiliated for the way I feel. But he was a guy, go figure. Like I said, there were no other therapist available and I really needed to talk to someone...otherwise I'd never go to a male therapist. I did however go in with an open mind though, just to have everything I know confirmed.

And I've tried therapy with countless others before. I don't have the money to pay for one myself and I don't want to ask my parents. I really doubt I qualify for any sort of program and I wouldn't want to take money away from those who really need it. I mean, I have everything I need to live...government aid should go to those who don't.

And what do I have to bring to the table that can balance out all the bad qualities? Not nearly enough.

I certainly do not think of you as having "bad" qualities or being a "bad" person. You have had horrible, painful experiences, though, and people that have put very negative thoughts into your head. But those can be overcome, hon. I do believe that with my heart because I overcame those "bad" hurtful tapes that ran through my brain, as well. Hugs for you.

I do have bad qualities...

I have a lot of self-harm scars (and I still occasionally self-harm) and where I don't have scars I have stretch marks (and my weight hasn't fluctuated that much that fast). And where I don't have stretch marks, I have acne, etc. etc.

I'm difficult to communicate with and would find it impossible to say, talk about what I would want sexually (when it came to that) without just saying, "go read something I wrote!" But pretty much I don't know how to communicate about anything.

I'm needy for attention and because I realize that's bad, I suppress it until I can can go days without talking to anyone at all, but now I seem aloof.

I'm very jealous and insecure and would have to have constant reassurance that I'm attractive and worth dating. And wouldn't that be annoying?

I'm emotional and can lose my temper over really nothing or have my feelings hurt and the other person would have no idea why I'm mad at them and chances are I'd have trouble communicating why or would refuse to talk about it because it's better not talked about if it's a stupid reason to be angry.

I'm also pretty selfish in other relationships...but whenever I tried to help the other person etc. in order to make it less one-sided, I was always turned down. So if they're fine with it being all about me, so be it. But I'm not sure if I really know how to be in any sort of relationship that isn't all about me because it was never really allowed.

I could go on, but I really don't have anything to offer that can't be found in other prettier girls. My personality doesn't make up for my looks and vice versa.

Sex and all that comes with it is a gift you give to someone on your own terms. If you are married or in a relationship and expect/demand that gift the other person might feel like you dont deserve it.

there is an amount of feeling like you're obligated taht comes with being new in a relationship that is natural. You're new to the relationship and still learning his/her needs and wants and you're gonna feel like "should i be giving more of this to him?"

when you reach the point of mutual trust you'll know. it's not something you can make happen and it's not predictable.

I say if he pushes for sex before you're ready and can't accept your "no" it's time to let him go. If he's respecting of you he will let it go... and wait for you. period. no ifs, ands, or buts... Do not even think about giving in in this area. You're setting yourself up for trouble if you do.

Well, he will either let it go or leave the relationship. Just because he respects her doesn't mean he is obligated to suffer through a sexless relationship. But yes, what he would not do if he respects you is try to force you into it.