Meeting partners children first time - sleep over?

I wouldn't. I would wait, let him come around on topic. You know what you feel is best, for your situation.
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Hello, bluebird14, I think you are absolutely right to consider his childrens feelings. Getting to know them a little at first will make YOU feel more relaxed in their presence. Descending upon them unannounced could make them resent you. I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I was lucky in that her 13 and 15 year old daughters totally accepted me. Do try and relay your feelings to your boyfriend again, he should understand. I hope it all works out for you, good luck, Dionysius.

Hi Bluebird. I just now saw this.

Make plans, now, to put your 5 year old in a room with two teenage boys whom you do not even know yet?????? Are you kiddin' me????? Don't even give that the most fleeting of considerations.

You're going to have to be the adult in this situation, cause it's not going to be him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that his main problem is he is grotesquely under-developed in terms of having any sense whatsoever. That's painting him in the best light that I can manage. His real problem may actually be worse than that. At the very least, he has no judgement about anything. Be sure and use yours.

He feel "dictated" to??? Is this guy going to allow you to have any rights at all? Like I've said, you need to stop thinking of him as a partner. He's a guy you have been dating and do not even know very well yet. Until you see in real life how he interacts with your child, you do not even know if he has any real partner potential. There is too much advance planning going on here. You need to get through one scenario, before you contemplate the next.

I would advise you against either you or him investing any real money on plans for some future trip, until you see how this first meet-up works out.

Be careful.

Actually, what's important is that he defer to your wishes on this. Whether he likes it or not isn't even that important. He may just be too dumb to know that your wishes are the proper way of going about these plans.

I don't yet see a "huge" red flag. I do see a moderate size red flag. It takes time to know someone . . . time spent in the presence of that person, not a bunch of time texting each other. You have to stop trying to look into a crystal ball to figure out what this guy is like. After your spend some time with him, you will have a much better idea. That's the only way to get to know someone.

He does sound like he's got anger issues. If that bothers you, nothing wrong with you backing out now. I think you went and made too many plans ahead of time, without seeing how the first one works out.

Just be careful. Make sure you have the means of getting away from him, if something goes wrong. Keep that in mind, if you go on a trip with him. I'm not a believer in making oneself dependent in any way on someone you do not really know that well. Always have an escape route planned.

Despite whatever story he gave you about his wife not lovin' him enough, I'll bet she had some darn good reasons for calling it quits with him. Keep an open mind. He's had a year to feed you a bunch of propaganda. Soon you'll start to discover the reality of who he is. It may not be so good.

I talked to him tonight and I found myself being quiet as I'm bothered by last night but let him do all the talking . He acted in a happy mood but did not bring up the topic at all about last night telling me I'm making him lie then ending our talk. I talked for hour and he said nothing about it . He noticed I was a bit quiet but I just kept waiting for him to bring it up . Sad he didn't say anything . Now I don't know to bring up or what or what to make of him avoiding it . It hurts .

It seems as if he's waiting for you to bring it up. He already knows you're upset (concerned) but he's acting as if, no news means he's won. If you bring it up, I promise he will be just as defensive and will say everything and more, about how HE feels, totally negating your feelings or those of his sons and your son, not to mention accusing you of not caring about his feelings at all.

I'm not a mind reader (and rose is right...you really only get to know a man -or woman- when you spend time with them. Texting/email/messaging is a nice start but that's all it is, a start). The reason I feel I know his next move is based on your comments just now regarding the call. And from my own experience.

He obviously knows your hurt by his neglecting a subject that is very important to you...and that is necessary for him. So he'll wait you out, and will act completely surprised when YOU bring it up, because I honestly don't think he will. He's challenging you.

He's happy because in his mind, he's won, because he got quiet and ended the conversation........annnnd you didn't bring it up later.

Bring it up before the trip. Waiting until you get there will be....WILL BE .... a horrible mistake. Be as non-threatening as you can...almost offhand i.e. "have you given anymore thought to what we were discussing about the kids?" Sound cheerful.....sound like you believe he's relented because your thoughts are the wiser ones. If YOU believe it, it won't be that difficult to pull off. It offers him a chance to 'man up' as it were. I don't think he will, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Honestly, I think he'll be pissed you brought it up and then probably angry when you stand your ground. But it's better to know now. Just make sure you have a 'holiday back up plan'....cause this one may fall thru.

I feel so bad for you.....I can see the road you're on because not that long ago, I traveled along it. It was awful. And I knew my bf for years. I'd spare you that.

Take care.

That was very sensible of you . . . to quietly let him go wherever he was going.

He acted happy and chose not to address anything. My guess is that he is just figuring that you'll cave to him.

Before going out there, you have a right to get this addressed. Otherwise, I suspect he'll take a nasty fit, if you wait till you are there and push the issue then. Still, that is one option.

It's just fine that you let him to all the talking tonight. You avoided arguing with him, which you must do. I say that because he's the type of guy you are not going to ever win a debate with. You have to decide some things, when they are important, and, then, just announce your decision - in a ladylike way, so he saves a bit of face - but without willingness to be deflected from what you intend. (He may be an immature man who needs a lady to be the grown up.) So you might want to call him tomorrow and gently tell him that you really have to do it as you explained and you hope that he understands . . . however, if he can't understand, then you really have to cancel the trip.

This is a huge test. (He tested you, now it's your turn.) If he won't go along with you, I'ld say you and your child would be in for one crummy life with this guy. Better to know that now. If he agrees, then you know he may be a dope, in some ways, but at least he is a dope you can lead in the right direction. That may give you something that you can work with.

wow we're pretty much on the same page!! Did you know my ex? lol

Thanks guys .. I'm just laying here now thinking do I want to go down this road . He knows I have an issue with the other walking away from a problem or discussion and pretending like nothing wrong .. Atleast on big topics.. It was an issue with my ex. So here I am Again with someone doing the same thing . And yes I agree he knows I'm bothered but tried to act happy to avoid . I'm really trying to think now what is best . I love him but yes as you pointed out I need to watch the road I take for my son and I. I can't be with someone controlling who will control my son or myself for that matter .

I hope only the best for you bluebird, and you're right...the road ahead must be walked with your son, not just yourself. Keep centered on what is good and right for your son and you'll never have to doubt your decisions, no matter how they may hurt.

And I know they may.

One thing I always promised myself, after my previous relationship and now my recent ex is that I will NEVER allow the 'silent treatment' aka passive aggressive treatment in any relationship with another man. I've had it twice. Never again.

No one wins when that happens....I felt hurt, abandoned, ignored, and hugely abused and even tho he presented like he'd won, he was miserable because he'd created a doormat. In his illness, it was what he did naturally, but then he grew to hate the doormat, and abuse it even more.....because he could.

The 'silent treatment' now for me, is a tremendous red flag. And I'll never glance away, expecting it to disappear again. It doesn't.....it just gets worse.

Take care (((hugs)))

Yes that's what I'm laying here thinking . I need to be strong like you are thinking what I need and deserve. My ex did this and here I am Again and the feelings you listed are how I feel too . Why do people do this . Kills me as early on he always said he felt issues should be talked out . He lied . Thanks for everyone's support . I have a lot to think about . And thinking now this isn't the first time he's done the silent thing and won't be the last . I wish I knew why people do it and why I pick them lol . Thanks Again everyone . There was a reason I found this site .i don't even know how I came across it but there was a reason I truely believe .

Kids should always be put first, if for no other reason than they are kids. Yes they do grow up, and yes adults do deserve happiness (going back a bit in this tread) but not at the expense of childeren. I do resent my father for putting his needs/desires ahead of mine when I was growing up. But I'm 100% fine with my mother's remarriage of a few years ago and her focusing her attention on her husband, but I'm an adult now, different rules apply.

Not to sound sexist but men tend to be a bit more self centered when it comes to relationships, but that doesn't make it right. Trust your instincts it seems a bit of a red flag that you seem more concerned for how his kids will take your introduction to them than he is.

There is too much second guessing for me on what he thinks, feels, wants, etc. Only way to know is to ask him; not talking and just listening (two-edged sword, also means not communicating) and waiting for him to bring up what bothers you is manipulative to me -- he doesn't know that you want it brought up and attributing to him that he does know and is deliberately not bringing it up just adds imagined stuff to what's already going on in your head and cannot help the situation.

We know he feels like he is being made to lie by your not sleeping with him "in public". That is a lie of sorts if you are sleeping with him. It says you do not trust his judgment about his own sons or that you have a problem with he or other people knowing to what extent you are committed to him. It is your secret, he does not want the two of you's involvement kept a secret anymore and is disappointed that you do.

What could he have brought up in the conversation that you were quiet for? Why would he have brought it up? He has stated what he wants and how he feels, he has nothing else to say? He is probably not going to force/beg you to sleep with him in either event? When will you sleep with him when other people may know/find out? At some point, for the relationship to move ahead, it sounds like you will have to do that? You need to do a statement, "I will not sleep with you when others are around at this time and I will not leave my son alone when he is not at home. I would like to meet and get to know your sons better before we have a sleepover at your house and if both our families go away together, I would like to stay in a house or suite of rooms so you and I have a better chance of being intimate with more privacy." I think anything else is just stirring up imagined slights.

You know what he wants and he can want what he wants. Tell him what you will/will not do so he knows, uncategorically, what you want and will/will not do. There is no "argument" or discussion; you want what you want and that's fine. You will/will not do what you will/will not do and that's fine. He may/may not want to continue the relationship given what you will/will not do but there is no need to try to change what the other person wants, a want is a want, not a negotiating point. You may/may not want to continue the relationship given what he wants and does (he may be moving too fast for you and refuse to slow down, for example).

Waiting4
It's an old trick....distract, attack, control. My ex who is NPD was master of it, and I ended up giving in so many times, by the end of the relationship it was like I'd been caught up in a tornado. Rereading messages and emails astonished me on the number of things he made me believe, and how he twisted reality to fit his needs.
This resonates with me. My ex was NPD too. When I look back I can't believe how manipulating he was. So many times blamed myself and apologized to him, while he twisted things, lied and gaslighted.
Never again. Narcs are destroyers.

Agree, kids come first. And a young lad should not be left alone with two unknown teens.

So, he attacks and ends the conversation? Huge no-no, in my book.
Just a point of future potential consideration, if things do actually progress to real serious. Seeing there's kids involved, this being long distance, and considerable visitation time between the other parents involved. Who moves? Would other parents 'allow' it in notarized fashion, and if not allowed, is it worth the year long court battle? Time to think fast...is he worth it?

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This isnt the first time hes gone quiet. I have addressed it being an issue and he has said its something he needs to work on. but then it just happened again as we see from this and its not good. I delt with this with my ex.. he would just walk out of the room and then pretend nothing happened. over and over again. My ex had a drinking problem and that was bulk of why i left, but the walking away or hurtful comments left me feeling guility. I feel that alot now again- like I am repeating the circle.

The long distance is very hard.. are main fights are over him getting upset i don't send texts enough telling him i miss him or when I am home at night from work with my son or weekends I just don't have time to talk long until my son is in bed and says I dont send him texts enough during the day to show im thinking of him. .. My ex is not in this state and only sees his son 1x a year for a week so I have no issues if I need to move.but saying that I have NO TIME to me.. I dont have that every other weekend arrangment.. and yes he has told I would be the one to move (cuz of his kids) but I am not at the point even though he is because i have doubts. Now granted I have the better job ..but I understand the kids.

Yes I agree maybe I should bring it up but thing is when I brought it up the other night this was the SECOND time.. the first time I brought it up week ago..he told me he didnt want to take a trip anymore and that I ruined the trip for him because of my thought process on this and then it started a fight into how I dont give him attention and this was one more reason to not feel loved.. then we were on the verdge of ending it and i caved in.... then I brought up the topic again as he made a comment he was working extra to make money for the trip and that is how it came full circle again as I voiced my thoughts on sleeping arrangements.

I suppose I can bring up again as yes I am playing the game back .. but I hate it as he knows he was the one that got upset and stopped talking but I get he prob doesnt agree and doenst want to fight but this is a topic we need to address and if we cant thats not good.

I just wasn't being overly talkitive I guess cuz i was hurt.. normally I talk more and he listens and I was letting him talk.. He was being overly happy and talkitive than the norm.

Firstly....you are not playing a game!!! Get that out of your head. It is what he WANTS you to believe, and he will say that to you when you do bring it up...if you wait too long.

(the first time I brought it up week ago..he told me he didnt want to take a trip anymore and that I ruined the trip for him because of my thought process on this and then it started a fight into how I dont give him attention ...then we were on the verdge of ending it and i caved in.... then I brought up the topic again as he made a comment he was working extra to make money for the trip)
I'll say one thing...he's good. He's nearly as good as my ex. You ruined the trip for him? Why?? because you had concerns? --simply childish--and then he has to add after you 'cave' that he was working extra hours for the trip....so you feel guilty too?

The controlling issue...you don't text enough, you don't show you love him enough....oh my god....girl....run...don't walk. Run. He is exactly like my ex....completely. You're already starting to doubt yourself. Eventually, you will never understand what you did wrong, but you will always BE wrong as far as he is concerned.

My advice for what it's worth......he's dangerous to your self-esteem, your self worth, your mental health, and quite possibly toxic to both you and your son.

Run.

Perhaps you clammed up, mulling it over?. LDR's are tough, and having to appeal to insecurities must be the pits?
I'm in one, but am grateful, i don't have the checking in thing going on. I couldn't bear that, after what my ex pulled me through. I'm the one, who will grow quiet, actually, if there's a heavy discussion and I'm mulling. I get to say so, and topic tabled or emailed. Carrying out an argument through night would be deal breaking for me, from him. Not that there's really been many, less than a handful in all this time.

When your bf says he's working on it, is it lip service or is he in counseling? He is recovering from divorce, after all. You're here, if not in t, clearly evident you know how to reach for help, kwim?

Some of descriptions, two posts up, remind me of my ex....my radar is up, how much will you both see each other before major decisions?

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trips planned were if I went out there end July when my son is gone with his dad and then in Sept we had a trip planned for a weekend and then the big trip that I need to book. thats pretty much it. I tend to clamm up when I feel hurt.. and i do feel hurt .. my downfall. and i was just hoping he would talk about it..

Yes he has said it doesnt take long to pull out fun and send texts of where im at or doing especially on the weekends.. i said.. i do.. i said i barley get any info what u do.. I said i always text the highlights.. and hope end of night when son in bed we talk about day..he said he feels un thought of cuz i dont MAKE time to want to text all day. I tried to explain as a single mom and to a young child im busy so very busy.. and i try best i can..

I'm so sorry, darlin. You're already getting wrapped up in the control aspect....I wish I'd had someone to kick me when I was just at that point...but I probably wouldn't have listened.

I do worry for you. Be careful.

I think my phone is in the other room, and honest, it may have been a quick hi around lunch? Granted, he's at work, but still. I love having freedoms throughout my day to come and go, and if a few hours go by, a few hours go by. He nor I feel unloved or unattended to. Even lately, *gasp* he's been going to sleep early, even a little earlier than I, and we are in different time zones and I'm the one ahead on the timeclock.

Not making time?! Not feeling loved?! Um, hun, silent treatments are symptomatic of various disorders. It took me a while, to understand my ex husband, even before we had married.

Needy and Clingy, is not what a single mum needs

Add: oh boy, missed a text from 30 minutes ago...sounds like a rough day, at work, which considering how the weeks been..just replied, let's see... (ok, he may not be able to write, right back to me...so I'll edit or add reaction to my not being around for 30 minutes, later... )

7PM EST, I probably won't hear for another hour, note the consistency in the relationship. There was this one time, couple weeks ago, actually, I had just moved into my new place, was kind of in a meh mood going into this one particular morning(note pms) and I was so tired that when I looked at the bubbles, the text bubbles, I thought I'd texted at 8am to say good morning, um, nope had my colors all in reverse and about 3 hours later I did hear again, and he'd asked if everything was alright, because I wasn't quite myself..more withdrawn/aloof. Apologized, of course, because honest to goodness, he wasn't angry or anything like that. I gave it a serious amount of thought. How was I behaving different. (hard to tell long distance? au countraire, with two sensitive types) I flake, literally flake when I am going through 'that', and that's all there is. I said, well, that's actually that. I flake out. Better than mood swing, I am sure. It's because I get tired and not realize it, but that's sort of irrelevant. What I am trying to point out, is healthy approaches in contrast to cling and overbearing behaviors.



PS I doubt he'll mention anything about the space between the texting. It's consistent, as well. Consistency, happens in the morning, and at night.

He told me he hates how like on the weekends I'll give him a run down of my plans errands play dates etc and only send a text here or there during day . Now keep in mind I'm going store to store or at someone's house for play date . He says he feels not thought of . It drives me crazy . He said he gets frustrated to find out I'm back home for hours and don't even let him know . Now keep in mind he doesn't fill me in . I told him I don't feel I need to text ever min and honestly I've tried it and I feel so guilty as I'm staring at phone vs son so I stopped . I wonder if I would be diff if lived closer . I see the controlling signs and why I don't walk away I don't know . Ugh

It sounds like this guy just hungers to be fawned over. He needs to be the "center of the universe." I'm going to give you a "heads up" on something: This guy is going to resent your child like crazy. Be very watchful. I think you have a lot to learn about this guy. He is a jealous attention-seeker, and you're going to see an ugly side to him. When you do, don't rationalize it away. Don't even let him know you are noticing it. That will just induce him to cover it up. If you give this guy enough rope, he is going to hang himself. You are a caring, decent person with a gentle wish to think well of others. I have a strong premonition that you will find that he and you do not share basic values. Love can overcome a lot . . . . . but not that.

I know you think you love him. I suspect you are a loving soul. What you love is the person you think he is. Be willing to test that out, and be ready to see the reality . . . which may be different from what you have conjured up in your mind. I get the strong impression that you have not spent enough time with this man to really know what he is about. That's okay. Spend time and see what that shows you. But keep your mind open. Don't try to make yourself believe that he is what you have been imagining him to be. Find out who he is. Who he wants to be may not be the person you want him to be. And that's his right.