[Bluerose]

I have had suicide thoughts of and on for 12 months now, due to a medical condition that is always going to be there and which I won't go into now. The thing is I went to a therapist, we get along fine and he is a great help, problem is we have crossed boundries at first he was distressed about it and we stopped . He explained all about transference to me
but there is more to it than , we are both attracted to each other and now it has become very sexual. It all helps my suicide problem but I am mature enough to know it can't last, we are both married and want to stay that way.My fear is that when it does end I am going to be right back where I started so is it such a bad thing that we are filling a need we obviously both have?

[darkeyes]

For your best interest I suggest you end "therapy" with him and find a new therapist, I am very surprised he crossed his boundry, my former therapist was always so disciplined about bounries that he wouldn't even accept any little trinkets or simple gifts, God what a contrast but therapists are people too, but they are suppose to maintain a code of ethics and obviously yours hasn't. It may hurt at first but I personally think you should start with a new therapist, maybe a woman this time, these guys can be too attracting besides therapeutic if you know what I mean. In a warped way I envy you, I wish my former T was attracted to me as yours is to you, but you are right it may not last. This kind of strain is not conducive to your recovery of suicidal ideations over the long run, believe me I know. Take care of yourself, and be carefull.
"darkeyes"

[DocJohn]

Your therapist is not helping you one bit. He crossed a sacred boundary, one that is well-defined by our professions' ethics, and furthermore, often found in state law.

As hard as it might be, you need to end this relationship immediately.

You are very insightful and correct in understanding that the sexual relationship cannot continue indefinitely, and will eventually cause more pain and hardship for you when it does end. So rather than wait for it, for him to control when and how it ends, you must do so immediately.

Next, go find yourself a new therapist. If you want a virtual guarantee of staying away from this kind of relationship in the future, stick to a same-sex therapist.

Finally, while you may not want to, have the resources or energy to do so, it would be very helpful to the profession (and perhaps others who will inevitably come after you), to report this therapist to their licensing board in the state. There is absolutely no excuse for their behavior and they need to be reprimanded.

Best wishes,
John

[Bluerose]

You are only telling me what my therapist has already done so, he even suggested a female therapist but that won't work for me, he is the only person I have ever told many things to and I can't go through it again. While we are filling a need for each other I know I am getting stronger. If I get to the point of not being able to handle an end to the relationship I always have 800mg of valium + to end everything. It realy does,t matter whether I do or don't, I really can't see myself facing 20+ years of living with the medical problem I have which is neither going to get worse or better but just makes living so restricted. As for reporting him to authorities I would never do that.

[darkeyes]

Maybe he hasn't helped you if you are talking about overdosing on valiun or whatever else you may have. I also thought a woman therapist wasn't going to help, yeah if you have convinced yourself that then it won't. What has happened here is no longer therapy, it is a different kind of relationship, it can be great if you both want that, and for life? To consider suicide when it does end shows that it wasn't therapeutic after all, suicide is not the outcome therapy has in mind for a "goal". Reporting him, well I am a softie, if I encouraged it which it sounds like you did not object to, I could not then report this man either, if it was against my wishes then, yeah you should. I know Doc John, you'll disagree with me, I'm sorry. In a long, difficult, struggle through life and it's experiences, I found out through the "hard" way there is no man in this world worth "checking out" (suicide) over, so please re-consider!! I've been there, in time I found out it is not worth it!!! Please do not give up on yourself, do not give up on life, it may not be perfect, but we only get one time around. Take care and think about the replies you've had here, they are not meant to hurt you, may be to save you some pain that others have already felt.
"darkeyes"

[mylife]

I understand about reporting someone to the state licensing board, but how? I know a medical doctor (child's former pediatrician) who has way crossed boundaries with me. He is continuing to make advances. I desire only his friendship, if anything--nothing more. We don't see each other professionally anymore, and have only contacted each other by email once in a while. For a while, things were much more "tame". But I am afraid that now once again his thoughts are getting too obsessive. He recently said that he wants to take me out to eat, and back home to my bedroom. And he was very serious! He admitted that he'd have to go out of the area to the southern part of the state where nobody would recognize him. He is also married, to boot. Can someone report a doctor anonymously? Or does a whole report have to be made? I really don't want to upset him or make him angry. I've said enough times in the past that I'm not interested having sex with him or playing doctor with him or whatever else he wants to call it. I know its best to cut things off entirely. This will mean having to change my email address, AIM screen name, and other things. But how can I do all this without hurting anyone? I hate to lose a friend, but I am afraid in this case it would be for the best. It's sad, you know?

[DocJohn]

It is sad, and unfortunately too many people don't take the hint that when a person isn't interested, they're not interested. The fact that he was your child's former pediatrician probably doesn't come into play as much in this relationship, since it is a former relationship and we're not talking psychotherapy here (where the boundaries are much more clear). In the medical world, the boundaries are much fuzzier.

Before you go to any extremes, however, it might be a good idea to very clearly state that (a) you are not interested in him in that way and (b) if he continues, you may feel obligated to report him to the state's medical licensing board. Don't say (b) unless you mean it, though, and you will follow through on it. You can find the phone number for your state's board of medicine in the government pages of your local phone book. One phone call and the person on the other end will help guide you through the procedure and be able to answer any of your questions (the process varies from state to state).

Some people have poor boundaries, it's that simple.

My ex has repeatedly stated that she will not call me or contact me, which is for the best for my healing right now. What can I almost reliably rely on every week from her? You guessed it... an unsolicited phone call or email. Taking some of the blame, I do pick up the cell phone, even though it has caller ID. But next time she does it, I've resolved not to.

In this case, the boundaries are about separating and individuating ourselves and our lives from one another since our relationship is over. In your case, it's about clearly communicating that you have no interest in him and that if he continues, you will have to escalate the situation to get him to realize the seriousness of your intent not to socialize with him

John

[mylife]

Thanks for replying~ At the time he started all this, we were actual patients. I have reason to believe that I may not be the only person he has sought. He appears to (ab)use the trust and patient/doctor relationship. He seems to befriend the mothers of patients in the practice. It's like he lures us in with his baited personality, us thinking we have found a good friend in a doctor, and then he tests the limits. I am tired of these games. I should have known that he would return to his old ways. Another option would be to send notice to the "head" doctor in the practice that there may be questionable doctor/patient relationships going on. I think the only way I could do it is anonymously. It is very hard. I'll have to sit down this week when I have more time and write my "friend?" a letter. I don't know what to say or how to say it. It will take some thought. I can't go through life knowing this man is having dreams about me and writing me emails while in the nude.

[Bluerose]

Hi Mylife,
At least I know my therapist is not like yours, he would never do anything like you say yours is doing to you, sounds like he is the one in need of therapy. My situation is very different.He has been in practice for 25 years and when he says its the first time for him I believe him. I am no naive 20 or even 30 something, close to 50 and commonsense tells me if he made a habit of having relationships with his patients he would not be still in business in the same practice all that time. He is very confussed about our relationship and what could happen. As I said before we are both married and don't want to change that and if we are filling a need that both of us have right now and no one is going to get hurt so what. Thats not quite right, I know I will be hurt but how much, is something else, maybe after a time we will both be able to stop especially as it is making me stronger in lots of ways. I know that is what he thinks too. right now though I need him and he is also going through something that makes him need what I give him.

[darkeyes]

Haven't you both ever thought how hurt, how devastated, your spouses would be? It's my husband's affair that caused me to have a need for a therapist, meds, and psychiatrist. I know your "therapy" is about you, but it is unfair to "cheat" on others in the guise of "therapy". I'd be carefull, it may all backfire. Plu you previously stated if it came to an end you'd more or less take an overdose? How was "therapy" therapeutic for you if that became the possible outcome of your "therapy"? How ethical is this "therapy"? How fair is it to your spouses? How fair is it to YOU? For your sake I hope you are going to be okay with this, it is a slippery slope.
Take care of yourself.
"darkeyes"

[mylife]

I am divorcing, so it doesn't matter what my spouse would think of any relationship I would have or not. The doc trying to get me in bed is our former pediatrician. I have already told him that I am not interested in anything sexual. By the way, he is married. Even if he were single, I STILL wouldn't want to be involved with him. I am not intersted in him like that. I've told him before that I only wanted a strictly platonic relationship as friends. I don't think its going to work out like that, and I will just have to break all contact with him and end everything. I don't want to continue putting up with this from him.

[kitty]

bluerose and mylife: as others have said above, these drs are bad news!!!! mylife: forget being friends with this guy, he is not respecting you if you have expressed your feelings to him and he continues to solicit you. i don't know him, but he could be dangerous as well. bluerose: your therapist has really gone way beyond the boundaries and that is unforgivable. He may be causing you more problems than you realize. I hope you have the strength to get away from him. You really should report him, but I can understand not doing so. I had a chiropractor who began touching me inappropriately and feel guilty about not reporting him, but did not have the strength to do so. I just hope he does not do anything worse to someone else. I wish you both luck.

[rainbow]

I agree with the suggestions that have already been given to you, especially finding a new therapist. You really need to find a way to value yourself. This man obviously does not value you in the correct way. Change is very difficult, but you might find out that getting a new therapist is the best thing that you have ever done for yourself. It will take away the guilt you are feeling over this relationship and you can move on and perhaps feel a lot better about yourself. We are all stronger than we think we are and I believe that you can do this. Take it one day at a time and really think about how much better you going to feel when you do the right thing.
Keep believing in yourself.
Rainbow

[curlyq]

A gynecologist made passes at me 1 week after surgeryand actually in the hospital when I was on demerol, too! This confused and upset me very badly and gave me confusing sexual feelings, too. This was about 12 years ago. I ended the doctor/pt. relationship but he kept calling me. I ended up changing my phone number. I tried to report him to a certain association but it was one he was a member of and they wanted me to sign a paper excluding him of any liability. I was going to because I thought they would still investigate but then I tore up the paper and did not contact them and they dropped it. I feared him. I also felt sorry for him and did not want to see him jobless and career-ruined. But part of me wanted to stick it to him, too. I was very upset, hurt and confused. I know he would have just kept using me. I believe I was not the first as he was very confident and adept at what he was doing. This screwed me up for a long time and I am better now but I found out later I could have reported him to the AMA. Last I heard he died so no need to report him now. I also discussed his actions in therapy.

Bluerose it seems the more people tell you to get away from him the closer you want to get to him, no? I have had major illnesses too where I thought no one would want me. If your therapist wanted you, other men will too. You can stay with that relationship and see what happens of course-no one can stop you. I don't know the need it's fulfilling but if you wanted to, you could find someone else to fulfill it.

Obviously you are not leading a happy life and I think you need to get to the core of your unhappiness and the affair is only a bandaid to cover up your problems and your new problem, too, with the therapist. No offense intended but please think on it, okay?

At this point in life I feel no relationship is better than a confusing hurting one, for me.

Best of luck to you mylife and bluerose and all the rest of you, too.

<font color=orange>Peace to you.
curlyq/CQ</font color=orange>

<font color=blue>"We are not human beings on a spiritual journey. We are spiritual beings on a human journey." Stephen Covey </font color=blue>

<font color=purple>"Always laugh when you can. It is cheap medicine." Lord Byron</font color=purple>

[Zenobia]

I would like to point out that there is a part of you that questions what is going on in your relationship with this therapist. Maybe you should sit with that part of you that is trying to speak up and ask it what it thinks. Don't let needy part of you over ride what that quiet little voice is saying. Listen to it. I know it is there because if it wasn't you would not have questioned the relationship enough to start this thread. And ask yourself would your lover be able to seperate enough from what he has invested in your sexual relationship to help you listen and understand your doubts about what is going on?

I know it is hard to say the things that we say in therapy. But you can do it again. You can find a therapist who cares enough about you to not get involved with you.
Take care,
you are in my thoughts,
Zen

************
It is simple...we are where we should be, doing what we should be doing. Otherwise we would be somewhere else, doing something else.--Richard Stine

[Bluerose]

Zenobia
I agree with what you say, there is a part of me that questions the relationship, we have discussed it in therapy and yes he knows he should tell me to find another therapist, he also knows I won't and he knows my reasons for not. His main concern is that I am getting something from the relationship that is helping me and I am, I know that it is only a
temporary thing as does he. We have to trust in each other that we will not do any harm to our partners which neither of us wants to do. What has happened is something I don't really understand but I do know I have a need for the relationship and he must have a similar need othewise he would not of let it happen, you must not think he does this sort of thing all the time, I can see how hard it is for him but it is harder to stop the relationship right now, we both hope it will run its course and I will be stronger for it.Again is that such a bad thing?

[Zenobia]

What bothers me is that you went to him for help and now he is using you for his own gratification. What ever needs he may have he should have gotten them from outside his practice instead of using a patient who is in need and is easily manipulated.

Please don't take this as a knock on you. I know for a fact that if my T, Dan, ever asked me to get into a relationship I would have. I have become extremely attached to him and have fantasized that very thing, which I understand to be a common and normal thing. This is why it would be wrong for him to take advantage of the situation. I would not be in the position to be able to see beyond what I needed to feel better--and an intimate relationship makes a person feel loved and beautiful which would make me feel stronger and better at the same time. But it wouldn't be real. It would be abuse. The strength I would gain would lost once the relationship ended because it is not built on stable ground for the real world. Plus the relationship with him would take away from the energy needed to develop and improve my relationship with my husband who has committed himself to be there for me until the end. Unlike Dan who is only going to be in my life for a limited time.
Zen<font color=blue>

************
Self-hate uses SELF-IMPROVEMENT as SELF-MAINTENANCE. As long as you are concerned about improving yourself, you'll always have a self to improve. And you will always suffer.--Cheri Huber in There is Nothing Wrong with You, Going Beyond Self-Hate

[luna]

Bluerose, I agree with what everyone else has said here, that you should end it with this guy as soon as possible. Believe me, I do understand that it can be extremely painful to do this, but it will be much better for you in the long run. It makes me so angry when I read how so-called doctors can abuse their patients in such a harmful way. It may feel like he is helping you, but this relationship will only devastate you. I understand all too well how therapists can be so appealing, especially if you are a female and this is the only male in your life that will give you the time of day... but it should never cross the boundary as your therapist has done with you. Please get away from him and find someone who can truly help you... you deserve that!