[Prairie Girl]

I'll try to make this as brief as possible -- no one likes to read a wall of text.

My background:
Married for 18 years to an abusive (physical/emotional/mental) alcoholic. Ran away almost 17 years ago.

Lived alone for 15 years -- I am an introvert and enjoy my alone time.

Met current hubby online (I was in the States / he in Canada) -- had ongoing chats/Skype for a year. Met in person 2 years ago. 2 more meetings, then married this past April.

I knew, from the beginning, that he drank. But he is so charming, affectionate, loving -- mostly spoils me rotten -- and it wasn't a problem for me.

He is a tormentor (teasingly) and is the same with his friends/co-workers who love him dearly. I've always laughed when he teases me, we'd have such fun together and him keeping me laughing is important to me.

He is semi-retired and was home for 5 days straight last week. By the end of the 3rd day, I was a wreck. He'd stayed drunk nearly the entire time. He even got surly with me over trivial matters.

I'm feeling like I did when I was with my ex -- anxious/fear/dread/nerves strung tight.
Although I know for a fact he would NEVER raise a hand to me, I can't help having those old feelings.

So, I'm asking myself -- am I reacting to old triggers? Or is it the fact that I had no alone time/relief from him for those 5 days?

He totally retires the end of January so I must learn to cope somehow or I will go insane!

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you for reading this.

[jelly-bean]

Since your husband seems to have a problem with alcohol, maybe Alanon would be a good place to spend some time. Also, you can post in the addictions forum and see what others there can tell you.

[Bill3]

So, I'm asking myself -- am I reacting to old triggers? Or is it the fact that I had no alone time/relief from him for those 5 days?

I would suggest a third possibility: you are reacting to dealing with a life partner who spent five days being drunk with you.

Would you need relief from him if he spent five days sober with you?

No doubt the past has an influence on how you feel now. But even a person with no abusive past whatsoever can quite reasonably feel anxious/fear/dread/nerves strung tight when their life partner stays home drunk for five days.

I think that jelly-bean's suggestion of alanon is on point and excellent. And in addition: how likely is it that he would be willing to get help at AA or with an alcohol counselor?

[Prairie Girl]

Thank you for the suggestion (Alanon) but I checked out the site before coming here and it's a format that I'm not interested in.

Bill, yes I need relief when I spend a lot of time with him sober. He is very talkative and he likes for us to do everything (almost) together, so it's hard for me to get peace and quiet. In the summer, it was better because he spent many hours outside gardening -- though he did want me to go out with him most of the time.

I feel anxious, etc. around ANYONE drunk -- my brother, father, son-in-law, etc. So I see it as my problem, something I need to deal with and get a grip on by possibly changing my attitude or trying to learn new ways to think about alcoholics. They are not all going to hurt me.

Also, he would never get help for his drinking problem. He calls himself a 'functional alcoholic' and he is when it comes to his job or getting chores done around the home.
He does stay sober when we travel -- he never drives while under the influence, he is adamant about that.
He mainly drinks at home when he says 'it's time to relax.' Most of the time, he is very funny/charming and we have fun together but, lately, it's getting on my nerves.

PS -- if I post in the addictions forum, do I just copy/paste this post there? Or make a new one?

[Bill3]

Yes, you can copy and paste for the addictions forum.

I will post again tonight to reply to what you said.

[Prairie Girl]

Thank you.

[hvert]

Your post has me stressed out imagining what it would be like to live with someone who wanted to spend all their free time doing stuff with me, but who also drank too much (I am also an introvert who has dated substance abusers). I think this is less a trigger thing and more a 'who *would* enjoy that prospect' thing.

Was this past week an aberration? He didn't do that over the summer? Have you talked with him about how you will spend your time when he retires?

[Prairie Girl]

Hi hvert! Good, you understand my dilemma as you are an introvert yourself.

Actually, he drank every day during the summer, but he wasn't as crappy/annoying as he was this past week. Plus, he did stay outside quite a lot.

He has mentioned that he will get a part-time job (thank god) because he'd become very bored/restless after a while.

All has been pretty good the past couple days -- I think he saw how stressed out I was and decided to 'behave'. I'll see how it goes by Monday.

[Bill3]

I feel anxious, etc. around ANYONE drunk -- my brother, father, son-in-law, etc. So I see it as my problem, something I need to deal with and get a grip on by possibly changing my attitude or trying to learn new ways to think about alcoholics. They are not all going to hurt me.

One question seems to me to be whether people must simply accept and adjust to significant others who are frequently drunk, or whether there can be an expectation that significant others will not get frequently drunk. What is your thinking about this question?

[Prairie Girl]

Hmmm..... that's an excellent question, Bill3.

Accept? I have found that trying to change an alcoholic is a waste of time. There are so many other aspects in the relationship to consider. In my case, he is darn near perfect in every other way.
His drinking behavior is upsetting, indeed, but I wouldn't consider leaving him for that factor alone.

Expectations: Ideally, there should be none -- only acceptance of a person for the way they are. I have accepted his drinking -- he's usually very funny and light-hearted -- it's when he gets irate over trivial things, due to the alcohol, that I find hard to cope with. He really went overboard this past week and it upset me greatly.

He has been calm for nearly 3 days now, although still drinking the usual amount. I do know that he has had health issues that he is concerned about. His irrational behavior started the day before his MRI and continued for 3 days after. Maybe THAT was the issue?? I'm not sure.

[Bill3]

That is a very interesting observation, about the MRI.

It sounds like your perspective on relationships, at least with an alcoholic, is that you accept the person as he is, as a whole, and stay with him, or else you reject that whole and don't stay. You don't try to change the person.

Still, there are times when you have difficulty and get upset. When that happens, there is at least one option between the poles of stay-and-do-nothing versus get-up-and-leave.

You do have the option of telling him, in a sober moment, how much you love him but also how much certain behaviors upset you. Maybe you have already done this. The idea is that by speaking you allow him the opportunity to decide to want to change. You don't demand change, you just inform him of how you feel.

You could also make about more than your own feelings. Heavy drinking is bad for health.You might tell him how concerned you are about his health, for him and for you.

These are just some ideas that may or may not seem useful to you. The concept of something like Alanon is that people in similar situations can share what has worked and not worked for them. If Alanon isn't appropriate, you might look into Smart Recovery, or Women for Sobriety. These both are self-help programs but they do also have online message forums and they may have, or may be able to guide you to, ideas for living with an alcoholic.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by Prairie Girl

I'll try to make this as brief as possible -- no one likes to read a wall of text.

My background:
Married for 18 years to an abusive (physical/emotional/mental) alcoholic. Ran away almost 17 years ago.

Lived alone for 15 years -- I am an introvert and enjoy my alone time.

Met current hubby online (I was in the States / he in Canada) -- had ongoing chats/Skype for a year. Met in person 2 years ago. 2 more meetings, then married this past April.

I knew, from the beginning, that he drank. But he is so charming, affectionate, loving -- mostly spoils me rotten -- and it wasn't a problem for me.

He is a tormentor (teasingly) and is the same with his friends/co-workers who love him dearly. I've always laughed when he teases me, we'd have such fun together and him keeping me laughing is important to me.

He is semi-retired and was home for 5 days straight last week. By the end of the 3rd day, I was a wreck. He'd stayed drunk nearly the entire time. He even got surly with me over trivial matters.

I'm feeling like I did when I was with my ex -- anxious/fear/dread/nerves strung tight.
Although I know for a fact he would NEVER raise a hand to me, I can't help having those old feelings.

So, I'm asking myself -- am I reacting to old triggers? Or is it the fact that I had no alone time/relief from him for those 5 days?

He totally retires the end of January so I must learn to cope somehow or I will go insane!

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you for reading this.

Only because you have asked for feedback, will I comment. Personally I think you are getting enough good out of this relationship (so far) that you are rationalizing what I perceive to be some serious drawbacks. Furthermore I think you are starting to worry (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that 'familiarity (retirement and being around much more) will breed contempt.'

I think you have reason to be concerned. While I suppose it is possible that your hubs will reduce his drinking once he stops working, most of the alcoholics I have known increased their drinking when they did not have to report to work, and that seems to be what your hubs will do.

You are going to have to do the hard work of deciding what you are willing to put up with and what you are not, and then you are going to have to communicate that to your husband. Any relationship undergoes changes during a major life shift such as retirement so you don't need to focus on his drinking at the beginning of your conversation. But it will come up one way or another.

You'll have to face the consequences on your husband's physical health with regard to his drinking, also.

I also think the kind of denial you are in (and I base this on your focus on the laughter and the fun you're having, even though your husband is an admitted alcoholic) will wear on you, emotionally, and consequently physically.

Since we can never change someone else, it is a matter of deciding for yourself and proceeding in that direction.

[Prairie Girl]

Originally Posted by Bill3

It sounds like your perspective on relationships, at least with an alcoholic, is that you accept the person as he is, as a whole, and stay with him, or else you reject that whole and don't stay. You don't try to change the person.

In my previous marriage, I did try to change him -- to no avail, a waste of time. That marriage was a rollercoaster -- good years, bad months, etc. During the last 4 years, he started doing speed with the alcohol, became very abusive. I had broken ribs/nose, burned hands, and more. I had to leave or he'd have killed me.

Originally Posted by Bill3

You do have the option of telling him, in a sober moment, how much you love him but also how much certain behaviors upset you.

That has worked in the past. I have left letters on the kitchen table for him to read when he gets up -- and still sober. It's too hard to talk to him in person as he interrupts or veers the subject to something else. I can clarify my feelings better in writing -- no interruptions -- rather than talking in person. The other day, I was composing a letter to him about the issue but he was acting his usual loving self and I decided the letter could wait, see how he does this weekend.

I have brought up the health issue but he scoffs at the idea, laughs about it, won't take the issue seriously. I guess he thinks 60 is too young to worry about health problems. ???

Thank you for the suggestions. I did check into both sites but don't feel either one is right for me.

[Prairie Girl]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

Personally I think you are getting enough good out of this relationship (so far) that you are rationalizing what I perceive to be some serious drawbacks. Furthermore I think you are starting to worry (and rightfully so, in my opinion) that 'familiarity (retirement and being around much more) will breed contempt.'

Hello IceCreamKid.

I was thinking about the 'familiarity breeds contempt' thing the other night. I never wanted to feel that toward him -- or despair, anxiety, tension -- because that's how I felt about my last husband. Ugly feelings for someone you are supposed to love! That's why I came here for feedback/help.

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

I also think the kind of denial you are in (and I base this on your focus on the laughter and the fun you're having, even though your husband is an admitted alcoholic) will wear on you, emotionally, and consequently physically.

It already had -- my anxiety was almost up to the levels I'd experienced in my last marriage -- another reason why I came here.
Things have calmed down considerably but I feel it may happen again and I want to be 'armed' with defenses if I have to confront him on this issue.

I do not want to leave him so I'm hoping to find a way to deal with this in a manner that hopefully satisfies both of us.

[Bill3]

Prairie Girl, you might want to take a look at the "Stages of Change"model that is commonly used by addiction counselors and others. This link gives a very brief overview of this model, there are scads of Google hits if you want to look into it more:

http://www.uri.edu/research/cprc/TTM/StagesOfChange.htm

The idea is that, for example, a counselor who keeps pushing change on a person who is in the precontemplation stage is not likely to make progress. The counselor's actions depend on where the patient is in the "Stages of Change" model.

I like this link below because, for each stage of change, it suggests how a counselor can be most helpful.

http://stepupprogram.org/docs/handou..._of_Change.pdf

Do keep in mind that a person who drinks heavily is suffering. They have pain in their lives that is difficult to deal with. The fact that he was drinking heavily around the time of his MRI underscores this concept.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by Prairie Girl

Hello IceCreamKid.

I was thinking about the 'familiarity breeds contempt' thing the other night. I never wanted to feel that toward him -- or despair, anxiety, tension -- because that's how I felt about my last husband. Ugly feelings for someone you are supposed to love! That's why I came here for feedback/help.


It already had -- my anxiety was almost up to the levels I'd experienced in my last marriage -- another reason why I came here.
Things have calmed down considerably but I feel it may happen again and I want to be 'armed' with defenses if I have to confront him on this issue.

I do not want to leave him so I'm hoping to find a way to deal with this in a manner that hopefully satisfies both of us.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I've never had a happy experience with an active alcoholic. In my opinion they are incredibly selfish people who will use others for their own benefit and hide behind more drinking to mitigate any shame they are still able to feel. You might consider that your all-forgiving willingness to stay with an active alcoholic gives him silent permission to continue to drink.

[toolman65]

Seriously? You leave letters on the kitchen table for him to read because he won't let you finish your thoughts without interrupting ? That is dysfunctional on so many levels.

You are involved with an addict. Period. No matter how funny or charming or anything else, he is still an addict. An addict's primary relationship is with the addictive substance. Not you. You know this from experience.

As long as you are with an addict who is not in treatment, you will never be no. 1 with them.

If he wants to change the subject and deny that he has a problem, that is his right.

If he wants to go an AA meeting or drink himself to death, that is his choice.

You have choices too. You can continue in this role or you can do something for yourself. Something empowering. What have you got to lose? Imagine how it would feel to have a say in your life. To not have to leave letters laying around in the hope of getting your needs met. To not have to use the words anxiety or despair when talking about yourself. To not be immobilized by shame.

Isn't that better than waiting for the next binge?

Not to push an agenda, but i really think you should give Al-Anon a chance. At the very least it will give you a reason to go out.

[Prairie Girl]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Prairie Girl, you might want to take a look at the "Stages of Change"model that is commonly used by addiction counselors and others.

Do keep in mind that a person who drinks heavily is suffering. They have pain in their lives that is difficult to deal with. The fact that he was drinking heavily around the time of his MRI underscores this concept.

I read over the info, thank you for the links. Is that for HIM to change? Or for me?
He does have pain in his life -- the main one being that he 'killed' his best friend in a drunk driving accident, he was the driver. BUT that was when he was 17 years old. He says he's been an alcoholic since then.

Seems a long time to grieve and makes me think it is an 'excuse' after all this time.

[Prairie Girl]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

I'm going to bow out of this conversation. I've never had a happy experience with an active alcoholic. In my opinion they are incredibly selfish people who will use others for their own benefit and hide behind more drinking to mitigate any shame they are still able to feel. You might consider that your all-forgiving willingness to stay with an active alcoholic gives him silent permission to continue to drink.

I understand. Thank you for your input -- and, actually, I do agree about the selfish part. If his behavior continues, my all-forgiving attitude is very likely to change.

[Prairie Girl]

Originally Posted by toolman65

Seriously? You leave letters on the kitchen table for him to read because he won't let you finish your thoughts without interrupting ? That is dysfunctional on so many levels.

You are involved with an addict. Period. No matter how funny or charming or anything else, he is still an addict. An addict's primary relationship is with the addictive substance. Not you. You know this from experience.

Writing letters have always been my main source of serious communication. It's not because of HIM, it's the way I prefer to express myself. I can state my feelings better without being interrupted during a conversation.
Once the letter has been read, then we sit down and discuss the issue(s).

Yes, I have had experience with this issue. This time my life isn't in danger and this man does love me very much. So, I'm trying to learn to cope and keep us together.

I do appreciate your feedback, thank you.

[Bill3]

I did envision that the stages of change information was for you to consider when trying to help him. In a sense, you are the "counselor". However, a romantic partner cannot also be a counselor, so I was thinking more of you being aware, over time, of how open he is (if at all) to change and then you acting according to the model in encouraging and supporting him in getting outside help.

You are correct in realizing that the stages of change model could apply to you as well. That was not my intent in posting, but you could definitely ask yourself how open you are to change in yourself and act accordingly.

I was so sorry to learn of the tragedy in his past. Even after all of these years, it must be an immense burden. I agree that it has been a long time to grieve, but this loss was more than the loss of a best friend. It is also the burden of guilt for actually being responsible for that loss. With that in mind, the ongoing pain becomes more understandable, at least in my mind. And you suggest that he has other pain as well. Did he ever undergo therapy in connection with this loss? I am guessing that he did not.

Prarie Girl, I admire your dedication to him and how much you follow up on suggestions posted here. If you are willing to entertain another suggestion: With this new information, I now suggest that you consider individual counseling for yourself. I now realize that you yourself are carrying a heavy load and I think that counseling could help you with that load.

ETA: He could have PTSD as a result of the accident. You/he could look into that online, there are many sites, e.g.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...sd/index.shtml
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/con-20022540
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/t...rder--symptoms

[Prairie Girl]

Thank you, Bill!
Yes, I have concluded that change would be good for me, too. The info does help me sort out changes, possibly for him, and how I can be of help to him.

Actually, he did go through counseling at the time of the accident. But the pain/guilt is still very strong for him.

I am considering counseling for myself indeed. I will be looking into that soon.

PTSD is very possible. I have read about it in the past -- will look into that again a little more in depth.

[Trippin2.0]

You've received some excellent feedback, so I will refrain from echoing.

I want to say this though:

Yes love is about acceptance, but what about boundaries?

Boundaries are necessary to maintain HEALTHY relationships.

Nobody can just accept everything and be okay with everything because, love. That kind of thinking will lead to people treading very dangerous waters...

Also, I find it very disturbing, even telling, that you would walk away from one alcoholic straight into the arms of yet another...

Usually people leave such situations because they realize they deserve better, and thus go to great lengths to prevent being faced with the same problem again.

Even if you didn't leave because you thought you deserve better, you left because of self preservation, yet failed to honor that instinct with the next man.

Me thinks you're the one who should seek therapy, its not like your hubby actually wants help, but doesn't mean you shouldn't get any.

Ps. I have no intention of being an active participant in this discussion, it seems to be going in circles. I just wanted to leave my thoughts with you as you did request input.

Good luck, because from this angle, it honestly seems as if that's all you have to work with.

[AdamLee]

In my perspective, this is a combination of all of the factors you listed. If you are in close quarters for 5 days, things start getting annoying and people start getting too comfortable or the opposite too anxious. If hes getting drunk his judgement is impairing, he's going to argue and say things that are going to trigger you. Yes, your triggers are influencing the situation. None of this is bad, it's just food for thought. Consider what's going on, do I need to change things up? Get out of the house. Spend some time apart (like go out alone)? Couples get traditional, and people tend to believe that they NEED to be together sometimes. It's OK to go out and do stuff for yourself to relieve that stress. Maybe he should cut down on his drinking, but be VERY careful how you approach that. If that's become a hard habit and he doesn't want to quit, he's not going to. Trust me. But that may be something you need if it triggers you. Think about it for some time and the answers will come to you. Trust in yourself.