What do I do when boyfriend and I can't agree on having kids.

Thank you for that post. (((((Olive)))))

Given the way that you defend him, it really sounds like (for better or worse) you have in fact made up your mind.

Some of us here worry a lot about what you have told us, about children and about the other things you have posted and divine just brought up. I know that I do.

Still, it is your life and I hope that things work out for you as you wish them to.

If they don't, evidently there will not be any children around to complicate a divorce.

What would have to happen, now or in the future, for you to consider ending the relationship with him? What would be dealbreakers for you?

I really don’t appreciate you digging up old posts from a year ago and throwing them in my face when you only know a sliver of my relationship based off of the lowest low we’ve ever had. My mistake for putting it all over the internet. I thought this community was supportive but I feel personally attacked by you, divine1966.

1. Yes, I chose to move to another state for him. The move is meant to last For 3 years while he finishes his doctorate program. I don’t regret my decision and frankly insinuating that it’s wrong because we’re not married is disrespectful. It’s a decision we made together. When he was applying to programs he applied with me next to him and we both agreed which states we wanted to live in. I have friends in this current state. Our current state is one I always wanted to live in and I always wanted to move to another state. I wouldn’t have done it if it wasn’t something I wanted. It just proved to be a difficult decision.

2. Since that last post you dug up he has agreed to move back to my home state. This is something I wanted that he is compromising for me when his family lives elsewhere. Living there is much more of a deal breaker to me than having kids so that’s why I was questioning if he’s the one.

It’s unfair to criticize someone with depression asking what they possibly have to be depressed about if life is so good. Depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain you can’t help no matter how much good fortune you get. I have depression myself and I can’t help it. It really puts people down who have real psychological battles.

You would never tell someone with cancer “why are you sick you have such a good life and a nice partner”. Depression is the same- it is an illness that you can’t control. Yes there is something that you can do about it, part of it is in your control. But it’s also very real.

Yes he has a job, he’s finishing school about to be a doctor and working with patients.

There is no digging involved. Your posts are available on this forum. In fact I’ve read them before, just wasn’t sure it was you, it sounded familiar in some ways. It’s your choice of course to stay with him (privided that he changes his mind about breaking up with you). I wish you all the best.

I will not bring a child into this world if they did not have a father figure who loves them and wanted them. Period.

If my boyfriend and I break up I will not have kids unless I’m financially stable, have worked on myself, and have a partner who wants them and I trust will take care of them. And I am more than prepared to not have them if those things don’t line up. It would be selfish to have kids if they don’t have a dad who wants them.

Olive, I know there is an awful lot of propaganda out there telling us that depression is just like diabetes. An awful lot of depressed people have their self-esteem invested in believing that because, otherwise they can't proclaim "It's not my fault!" which is the be and end all to people who are emotionally troubled. Try to open your mind to the wiser viewpoint, held by most savvy people, that the cause of depression is multifactorial. There is zero proof that it boils down to "a chemical imbalance of the brain." Inborn temperament can be a factor. I am depressed and come from a family of depressive. I've worked in mental health. Usually depressed folks do have some problems in their attitudes and how they approach life. (Much therapy is based on that premise.)

This is not about blame. People are no more responsible for how they were reared or the influences that shaped them than they are for their genes. Your guy is a product of all these things. People don't just become and remain severely depressed because of their genes. Nobody I ever knew. Spend some time thinking about his life story. There is more to what shaped him than his chromosomes. We are all - each and every one of us - carrying around some notions we would do well to unload. That's part of the human condition. It's what people try to address in therapy. I believe the best therapists are the people in our lives, at home and at work, who lean on us a bit to go in a better direction than our stunted nature might incline us. You're a sincere, earnest young woman, giving a lot to this man. In earlier posts you shared how you were in between a family and a man who each wanted to run your life. I'm not throwing anything in your face. I'm taking the trouble to see the bigger picture. I've honestly shared my own failings, so I'm not coming from a perspective of feeling superior to you or your young man. In prior threads and here, you twist yourself in knots trying to justify everyone but you. To overcome your own depression, you need to do less of that. No drug claiming to adjust your neurotransmitters or those of your guys is going to fix this. I'm sharing the fruit of my many years of hard experience. Disregard what does not resonate with you, but give some credence to the sincere desire to help behind what I and other posters here are trying to say.

Your guy kind of wallows in his depression. I recognize that tendency because I do the same thing. Most depressive do it. It's not something to be made to feel guilty about, but to be firmly discouraged from doing. Alcoholism is a disease. But the drinker needs to figure out how to put down the glass. That's an imperfect analogy.

I have never been married. nor am I a parent. And this was a conscious decision on my part. There are many wonderful things to fill ones life with...art, music, travel charity....life.

This said, his decision to not have children whatever the reason may not be just a passing fancy, and should be respected & taken seriously. Sounds like you are both simply striving to find your place in the world. You will need to decide what is important to you. Not wanting children is just as valid a choice as wanting them....In my experience, we rarely end up with the one we loved the longest or the one we loved the most, usually its all about timing. You both deserve to have the life you want, and that life can only be lived together if you are on the same page.

Many years ago I was with a man who was adamant about not wanting children. I was absolutely sure I wanted children, wanted to be a mom, and wanted a family of my own. After having been together for 3 years, I left the man, moved to a different town, had a great job.

I met another man. We fell in love and moved in together. I got pregnant and was over the moon with happiness. The guy, who was from another country very far away from California, freaked out and left town.

The first man, when he found out I was pregnant, found me and told me he desperately wanted to be back together and wanted to raise the child together. We got back together, got married, and had a daughter. He (who had 'never' wanted children) was in love with our daughter. Absolutely adored her every move. He completely loved her as his own.

Three years later, my husband and I had a son. We were completely delighted. We both found immense joy in raising our two children. We loved them with all our hearts and souls.

Our daughter is 32 now, our son is 29. Both are doing wonderfully well with their adult lives. My husband and I have been married for 30+ years.

Just this year my daughter's biological father got in touch with her. She was initially annoyed, but she went into therapy and is working on how she wants to proceed with her biological father, with whom she had no contact as she was growing up. (She and her dad, my husband, have always been close.)

My point is that I've seen a lot of men who "didn't want children" fall madly in love when they first laid eyes on their newborn baby.

In mentioning these options, I was not implying that you would not be financially stable nor did I imply that you would be unable to take care of yourself. When I refer to planning, I'm specifically addressing the issue you currently have about whether or not your boyfriend will be up for being a father.

Also, I'm saying this from a background where my mother and many of my close friends wanted the same things you do and for one reason or another became single mothers. So my point of view has always been that if you want to be a mother, you can be. You can find a partner who is or is not the bio father who could still make a positive difference in your childrens' lives. And just because I didn't have a father in my life who loved me didn't hinder my life at all. My Dad wanted to be a father but couldn't be. Your children could very well have a father that loves them but you're not romantically involved with.

As I mentioned, if you want to be a mother, you have options. It doesn't have to be fixed on a boyfriend who doesn't seem to share the same purpose right now.

I understand what you are feeling. But my personal opinion is (and if you want you keep it, if you don't want then don't) that we are better with people that in major issues like this are in the same path with us.

I 100% agree with this.

I think she can not rely on exceptions like this. It is a great risk. If a man says he doesn't want kids, he will propably not accept them after.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a great risk"?

People do change their feelings. I'm not sure my situation was an exception; I have seen so many men and women who believe they don't want kids then, for whatever reason, they end up having a child and never look back. They love being a parent, after all.

By the same token I've seen a lot of people, especially men, who think they want a baby and end up totally unprepared for the responsibility.

Sometimes the question of whether to have a child or not just takes time and life experience.

Sometimes people don’t want kids or don’t want be married etc etc...until they do.

A friend of mine spent almost ten years with a man who didn’t want commitment or kids. When they finally broke up, he started dating shortly after, married and had two kids one after another. They are in the same professional scene so she knows it’s a normal good marriage. She was very heart broken that he never wanted it with her. So they were either not right match or he simply wasn’t ready. Or changed his mind. Or met better match. Who knows.

In fact I know several women who stayed with men who didn’t want kids or commitment. Yet these men eventually married and had kids, with a new woman.

So people do change their minds, get older, meet different partners etc Heck I didn’t want to marry my long term boyfriend. And thought I never wanted to get married again. Yet I got engaged to my now husband after 7 months of dating, and got married shortly after and am happily married.

In op situation he is in medical school. Most medical students don’t even date. Let alone commit or think of kids. It could be just wrong timing for this guy

I don't know your back posts like some of the people on this forum so I will not judge the man one way or another. I do feel that you shouldn't have to compromise what you want for the relationship and neither does he. He has told you straight out that he doesn't want kids and that's his right to choose. You shouldn't force him to do something he does not want to do and likewise, you shouldn't do something you don't want to do. So you're only option is to change your opinion (by weighing what's more important to you) or leave the relationship. Simple right? Not really.

Me and my wife were/are in the same boat. I went into the relationship kinda wanting kids but I knew I wouldn't have/carry my own child because I did not want to pass my bipolar to anyone. So I left it up to her. When we first got together she was definitely a "no children" kind of person. Now that she's older she goes back and forward about having her own child, but I've left the choice up to her because I'm still unsure about a child (I know not the best way to look at it but it is what it is). She grew up in a bad family environment and was pretty sure she didn't want kids. I married her knowing we may never had any kids and even though I was leaning towards having kids that was something I was willing to compromise with because I felt being with her is more important to me then a child.

We have many times talked about adoption and we're both on the fence about it. Right now though, we both agree that we're having too much fun traveling and going to concerts to have a child at the moment. As we get older both of our views on the subject have changed. She has at least considered adopting and I have at least consider a life without children. When and if the time comes to make the decision we will have to really evaluate the situation and decide what to do from there (we've been together for almost 13 yrs). Right now we're having too much fun together and the baby topic isn't even on the table atm.

I'm not saying stay with the guy just because it has worked out for me and my wife, but it is something you two will have to deal with eventually. I wish I had better advice. But I do know my opinion has changed as I get older and maybe y'alls will to. I don't believe in divorce and I knew going into our marriage there was a possibility of not having children and I was fine with that. If I finally decide settling down and having children is important to me then I will have to choose what's more important to myself, divorce and child or married with no children.

I wish I had better advice for you but I just wanted you to know that you weren't alone in the situation and that I feel for you.

Excellent post divine. Yes. Timing is everything.

Olive at 22 I made the decision to not have kids. I come from a big family and logged in hundreds if not thousands of hours with all of my nieces and nephews. I spent entire weekends caring for them. In one case I spent 24 hours a day for a week with a sick one year old. I stayed with my sister and her family for the week because it was easier so I was not responsible for my nieces care when they got home. They were up with her in the middle of the night and so was I. I knew after that experience motherhood was not for me. My fiance knew of my stance on this and he was okay with it. Also said if I changed my mind he was okay with it too. Since I was the one who was carrying the baby he left it up to me. Never changed my mind. I am always happy to now spend time with my great nieces and nephews and hand them back to their parents!

If it is truly in your heart to have a child, find someone who will share in the joy of having a child and give it he time and attention a little life deserves. But the big question to ask is if you can't have both which do you want more? A tough choice that only you can make.

If my husband had really wanted to be a dad it would have been a deal breaker. We would have gone our separate ways but probably always be friends.

Well, it sounds like you are mid twenties? This is when women start "wanting" a child and part of this is due to nature when your body and hormones are more driven to reproduce.

When it comes to making a decision about having a child, you really have to consider the entire picture. It's important that if there is a partner in the picture that this partner has the ability to have the patience it requires when a child is around them. You certainly don't want this child to experience their parent being short tempered and suddenly yelling at them. You also have to consider your relationship and if your partner is short tempered and will suddenly get loud and angry and have meltdowns. A child will NOT understand this and can actually be traumatized by a parent that can have angry outbursts either towards them or the other parent. One of the things you can consider is how people you know like family reacts to this partners presence. If they say they are uncomfortable and even feel like they are walking on eggshells around this individual then this is NOT a good candidate to partner up with and bring a child into experiencing.

People can say they want children, after all, it's something that comes next however that doesn't mean these individuals are a good fit for having a child and raising that child to have a healthy "safe' outlook on life. If a child is an inconvenience for a parent, that child will most definitely "feel" it and can be challenged with that "feeling" their entire life. Truth is a lot of anxiety disorders develop in a person's early childhood where their environment simply doesn't feel "safe" for them. A lot of the "depression is hereditary" is not necessarily so, instead of it being a genetic issue, often it actually comes more from being exposed to it and how the mood swings and outbursts become instilled in the child.

A partner may really "not" be ready to even think about having a child too, especially if that partner is busy trying to figure out their career path and is under the stresses that can bring, for example being involved with getting an education and then learning how to actually practice whatever that person ends up choosing as a career.

Choosing to be a parent is a HUGE commitment and isn't something that a person should be choosing to do without really understanding what that commitment is really about. It's not about "just" wanting a child, it's about being able to actually give that child the kind of environment it deserves to have so it can grow up into a healthy adult, and that is YEARS where the parent learns all about "stages of child development" and what that child will need in terms of healthy nurturing from that parent/parents.

Actually, you can visit the "Childhood Emotional neglect" forum and there you can read all about what happens when a child doesn't grow up in a healthy environment and has to learn how to thrive despite being emotionally neglected. Dad never loved me, I was always an inconvenience, he was always mean and controlling blah, blah, blah or my mother never loved me, she just wanted someone to take care of "her". You say you want a "family", but you need to LEARN and EDUCATE yourself about "what really is a HEALTHY family?". Being responsible for another human being is a "major" commitment and this commitment lasts for many YEARS. You REALLY have to look at your partner and his/her qualifications beyond that partner simply saying they are ok with having a child. Often a partner's temper tantrums were instilled in him/her from their upbringing and dysfunctional parenting that he/she had no choice but to learn to exist with.

You say you would like to have a family of your own? Well, you really have to pay attention to if you have a partner that is capable of that because honestly, there are people that should NEVER be handed the responsibility of being a parent.

Here is an article you should read and think about:

https://health.usnews.com/health-car...e-contributing

Sorry, I noticed the link I posted isn't working, however I will post the link to a thread I have in the CEN forum where someone posted this link in my thread that does bring you to the article. I am not sure why my effort to copy and paste from that did not work.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/chil...epression.html

I appreciate the link, Open Eyes. I'm not exactly clear, however, on what it has to do with the OP's question. I mean...every child who is wanted does not necessarily have a great childhood (unexpected things happen). Every child who is a surprise doesn't necessarily have a bad childhood.

Let's face it....most babies are at least somewhat of a surprise. Some are planned; many are not.

Hi Laurie, that's a fair question. I was encouraging the OP to think about a lot of things when it comes to her deciding what she wants and then to look at her relationship and if her partner is even the kind of person who would be right to have a child with if he even agreed to have a child. The OP is still young and at first was just thinking about experiencing a relationship with someone, now that she is getting older she is actually thinking about other things she would like to experience in her life. She is asking an important question in her thread and for her to come to a decision about what she should do, she needs to look at a lot of different things she may not have thought about before. A man has more time to make this decision, a woman doesn't have as much time and has to consider how long she really has when it comes to having a baby of her own. However, some men are simply not cut out to be a "daddy" and that is important to pay attention to. Also, it sounds like the man she is with is very involved with getting his education and becoming a doctor. Right now that is his priority and he has talked about not wanting children and sometimes this changes and sometimes it doesn't as other posters have shared. From what she has shared, it sounds like her partner is also still young,( late 20's? ) and a lot of men are not interested when they are still maturing and figuring out what they want in life as that is what she has shared about her partner. A man really needs time to find himself, to figure out how he is going to make his way in his life before he is ready to think about the responsibility of having a child/children and the huge commitments of having a family. She talked about him wanting to be a doctor, well, that in itself is a huge commitment and establishing that career course is very stressful and it's not surprising her partner has no interest in committing to anything else right now. A person does a lot of growing and maturing in their late twenties and early thirties and with her partner's decision to become a doctor, he is first learning how to embrace the education, then he will be exposed to the world of practicing and then he will get to a point where he will slowly become an actual practicing doctor. It's not surprising her partner gets stressed, short tempered and experiences some depression as his career path is exposing him to some significant realities that are very challenging to sort through and psychologically accept.

My guess is the OP is around age 25? My question to the OP is has she made her own career choice or has she been picturing being a homemaker and having her life about being "there" for her partner? If this man is going to be a doctor, he will get very busy with that, won't be around as much and what is she going to be doing while he is busy with his career?

There are a lot of things a person should really consider when it comes to making the commitment to have a child. A lot of women think about having a "baby", yet, that baby will need a parent that is educated in child development and it's a lot more involved then the romance of having that baby. Truth is a lot of women have a child because they are dealing with nature's way of when a woman is ready and pushes the woman to "want" to reproduce. A lot of women have a child because that's what comes next and they find themselves often not really ready for the level of commitment involved with having a child and being responsible for that child over the span on many years. I presented that thread so the OP can sit and think about all the challenges people face, real life challenges when they grow up with parents who were not really ready to be a parent, and often just had a child because that's what comes next and did not really think about the commitment they were actually making. For the woman, it's a big decision too because "now" marriages are not like they used to be and a lot of women get left with raising a child on their own. So, the dream of, that long ago "ideal" of having a "family" is simply not a reality.

I raised a child myself, I have also spent a great deal of my life being around children and I saw a lot of things that were rude awakenings when it came to seeing children growing up in different ways and how that affected them. Even when you are dedicated to being the best possible parent you can be, your child can face piers that present them with challenges simply because these piers don't have the same kind of "nurturing" and respect from their parents. So, with that alone, if you don't establish a healthy bond with your child where your child genuinely feels "safe" coming to you, that child can suffer "alone" and develop some deep challenges with their self esteem because of how their piers interact where they don't have respect, they don't have the kind of caring that this child grew up having in their home.

The "home" really revolves around the mother, so it's very important that if you want children and a family that you spend time learning about child development, what is really involved, what that commitment really means and if you really want it and if you have a partner that can BE a partner in your family unit. A partner needs to understand that their part in the parental picture is VERY important, how they interact with the mother and the child is EXTREMELY important.

Hmmm. The OP hasn't replied in a while....

I always take that as a signal that enough is enough. A person can only digest so much. Some of this hasn't even seemed digestible to the O.P. It's time to leave the ball in her court and not keep piling on, or using her thread to converse among ourselves, IMHO.

Thanks for thoughtful response. I have absolutely thought about everything you mentioned. I am in a stage right now where I am VERY unsure of my career. The career I spent a few years going to school and building is no longer where I see myself so at this point I don’t know even which general direction to go into. I am very adement about this change. I’m plagued by that uncertainty and I know that I want to be a whole independent person- outside of any children or relationship. I won’t have children unless I’m more sure of who I am as a person and what direction I want to be in. I will go mad being a housewife and mother only as I need something else to put my energy into. I value traveling and friendships A LOT. There is nothing wrong for women who want that I am just not one of them.

Yes my boyfriend is focusing on a very demanding education right now and will soon begin a career that can be equally draining. I don’t believe he will ever really want children and I have accepted this as fact. Yes he naturally is more on edge than others. Yes he has developed these habits from a often tumultuous and sometimes abusive childhood. My friends all really like him but my family does not. Part of this reason is that they are racist against him and so he is on edge around them.

My college education is one where I learned a lot about child development and attachment, and took classes on family structure. I have also had a tumultous childhood in a lot of ways but I believe that if I am a mother I will be a very good one.

Your comment stuck out the most to me. Yes there is nothing wrong with wanting children or not wanting children. I will not stay with him expecting this opinion to change. I know I deserve to be happy and so does he. I know we both love each other. I know we want different things. I question if me giving up something as big as this will tear us apart.