What do I do when boyfriend and I can't agree on having kids.

He asked me to marry him and I couldn’t say yes because we weren’t on the same page about kids. Honestly neither of us realized it was such a big deal to me. I have friends who planned out their kids names and what their lives would look like and daydreamed about being parents. I daydreamed about traveling the world, living a life of adventure, having a solid careers, living in interesting places, making a wonderful space to all my own. I never thought about kids until recently. I know it’s not THE most important thing in the world to me but it is something I want.

He thinks the logical progression to our relationship is marriage. He laid all his cards out on the table (where he would live, that he def doesn’t want kids) and ulimatley thinks if I can’t accept that, If I don’t see a future, then we are wasting each other’s time. That’s why he has urgency right now and why I turned to this thread right now. I understand things from his perspective as I am taking him on a back and forth ride of indesicion but the truth is I just DONT KNOw.

I certainly am emotionally dependent (and attached) but not financially. I have places to go at least- moving back to my home state for one. In our relationship we spent a year being long distance so I know what it’s like to live my own life and be with him. It really does feel like divorce. I really need to turn my mind off of this for a bit.

Olive, can you share about your father, his role in the family, your relationship with him?

My father has always been in my life. My mom and him are still together and have never been apart. I wouldn’t call their marriage the happiest but No one has ever done anything unforgivable. He is an extremely hard working and intelligent man. Came from absolulty nothing and worked his *** off for his family so my sis and I could have a better life. Still helps his sisters and parents plus us. He is successful now and still working hard. Family man. Thinks having children and proving for them is THE purpose in life. Eagerly awaiting gradkids. He is a veteran and has deep psychological wounds from it. Can be emotionally distant. Also supportive of me in a lot of ways- encouraging me to have a strong career (very money motivated). Incredibly stubborn and beleives his way is the best way. Has heavily criticized my career choice and relationship (been prejudice towards my boyfriend). Super blunt and at times rude. Def has a lot of similarities to my bf but also a lot of differences. I am closer to my mom but I know my dad loves me.

Why do you ask?

Are you feeling the pressure of your father's values?
If you are wanting a child to fill a void in you then that is USING the child rather than having it to enjoy (or not) the parenting experience because yiu REALLY want to be a parent.

Also....yiu initially posted something like:
Family is the thing to do.....(which sort of does follow your dad's philosophy)

Remember, a kid is a committment FOR LIFE....not something to rehome like a puppy if it doesn't end up fitting into the family.

I never wanted kids. I was actually hoping that it would be a deal breaker in my not ending up getting married (long story with red flags) so I said no kids & he agreed because my degree & my career was MY priority & I didn't want to go into the marriage with him not understanding that. Nothing was going to get in my way....Unfortunately I did get pregnant & the first thing he told me was that I could just take 5 years off my education & go back when the baby was ready for school....totally disregarding my desires & the agreement we made before the marriage. Our relationship was war from the beginning because of the situation that brought up the red flags but this was actually a huge nail in the marriage coffin. It worked out & I agreed to compromise with one kid because I was already pregnant & struggled with the concept of abortion. My parents stepped up to care for her when needed the last 10 months to get my degree & then to stsrt my computer engineering career.

I had no idea how to care for a baby & honestly had no interest kn it even after she was born. I loved her but never felt that motherly connection. I think looking back that was because of the whole surrounding situation of her comibg into my life. I live her & was always her advocate & she still comes to me to talk things through though we live 1/2 the country away from each other & because of bad finances haven't been able to get together for 10 years.

Nithing guarantees that life will turn out how you imagine it at this point.

You really need to analyze your "why" you want a kid or kids. It sure diesn't sound like you are emotionally ready for one at this point & who knows maybe when you are, you may not want one by they & this whole thing will have been an exercise in the process of figuring yourself out.

Well, I asked that question to get an idea of the kind of family environment you grew up with as well as the relationship you saw take place between your father and mother as well as your own relationship with your father.

A female tends to seek out a mate that has similar traits as the father, this often is on a subconscious level too. There are things that can attract to a potential mate simply because they are familiar. A big part of this is human nature itself because we are designed to be drawn to things that are familiar in that it can contribute to our sense of safety, "this is ok, I know this". I think you would (on a subconscious level) like to have a male partner that has strong opinions, is goal oriented, but also WANTS to have a family. I think the partner you have now has a lot of the qualities you are used to having in your environment, with the exception of wanting children and embracing the family life. Correct?

For all of your life up til now you have been a part of a family unit Olive, it may not have been perfect as you have mentioned, but, for the most part you felt safe and connected and you like having that in your life. It's totally understandable that imagining a life without would create a void for you when you sit and think about it. Being with someone, even when you love a lot about that person and the fact that you have a "sense" of safety with that person can present a challenge like you are experiencing right now. When that person is firm on not wanting to embrace something a part of you really liked having in your life that takes something important out of your life picture. It's really understandable that you would be struggling with this in that the "option" of creating your own family like what you grew up with is not going to be something you can have and enjoy if you want it. That IS a big challenge to consider.

You are still young yet and finding your way, yet, part of that is really thinking about "what" you see as being content and happy. It's totally understandable that being told "no family" if you are with me is a big deal, it's taking something out of your life and future that may be something important to you, something you existed having in your life that you would like to create for yourself. Ofcourse there are no guarantees when it comes to that, but, taking that option out with a definite is taking that "would like to have" away too.

That is true. And I will continue to be part of a family unit. My parents sister and I are very close and even though we live in different states at the moment I know that I will settle down close to them. Living near them is a priority for all of us involved. I am scared of my parents passing. I know that my sister will 100% have children. She has always wanted them even more than I do and will make it happen by any means necessary so I will have family though that. I believe I will be pretty involved in her children’s life.

Like I said the rest of my family lives in other countries and I always wanted more family around so I figured I would eventually make more family. Things felt lonely with just 4 people so I wanted more.

Thank you for validating my emotions and putting into words exactly what I’m feeling. Yes I am young and wouldn’t even have children for several years. Yes it may never happen but taking away that OPTION forever is a painful decision to make at this stage in my life. Of course if I met a guy now knowing how much I value having a family I wouldn’t get involved with him but when I first met My SO didn’t know I wanted it this bad. Now we’re 4 years in and I see him as my family. It’s a lot harder to weigh when you have that history with someone thus why I’m contemplating what happiness looks like, my motivation for having children, the value of my relationship and all while magically trying to predict which will bring me the most joy and least regret 10,20,30 years down the line.

Interesting that if you met someone "now" that expressed not wanting children you would not get involved. Yet, because you are involved with someone for four years that expresses this not wanting children, you feel that you really have to honor his choice. It's ok to love someone yet finally recognize that this person is not going to be a good "lifetime" match because this person doesn't want the same things you want and this person is adamant in that he "never" wants children. That's a big option to take out of your future so it's understandable that you are really struggling with this challenge. I think you are too young to make that decision, you are really just finding yourself right now too. What if you get pregnant by accident? Does this mean you have to terminate to make him happy?

Personally, I think you are too young yet to make this decision. You have a lot of years that you can bear a child yet and I honestly think you should keep that "privately" open to be a option for yourself. It's "your" life and "your body", not your partner's.

I also think you are trying to make your OWN decisions and both your father and your boyfriend are pushing you to do things "their way". You should have support to choose the profession and job career YOU would be happier with, same thing with YOU making the choice whether you want your own family or not. You are much too young to have to make a "life" choice like this IMHO, you are still very much figuring out "who" you are and want to be at this point in your "young" life.

You have a right to make your own choices.

I wouldn’t say I want kids to fill a void within myself. I would say I only have 3 family members in the whole country and always felt lonely compared to my friends who have all their cousins and grandparents so I wanted to build my own family. I think I would feel the void if I DIDNt have them- the void of not being a mother. I don’t believe this should be my everything as I want to Feel like a whole person. Of course I know I already will love my kids unconditionally and am excited for all the other aspects of parenting- milestones, teaching, watching kids grow into their own people. I’m really excited to teach them about the world around them. I’m excited to share all the things that make me happy like art and friendship and traveling with another human being. And If they don’t like these things I’m excited to help them explore things they do like. Ultimately I just feel that strong unexplainable internal instinct to have kids and I feel I already have a maternal instinct. I know I am not emotionally mature enough for children right now and never understand how so many of my peers are having kids when they are even less “mature” than I am.

I don’t remember posting anything about “family is the thing to do”. I don’t want a family because it’s “socially acceptable” or what other people do. I mean I want so badly to be on the same page as my bf about this so not wanting kids would be the “Easier” option. Logically even it makes the most sense- financially, for a career, ect. Kids are very expensive and it is hard for your career not to suffer at least a little because of them. And yet I still want them. My beat friend never wants kids and I have a lot of friends who say they never want kids- it is becoming more acceptable in my generation. As long as I have the proper resources I am prepared to make that lifelong commitment. I worry about money and time the most.

I’m sorry to hear about your marriage and child. It sounds like you ended up in a good place with your career and leaving a marriage that wasn’t right.

You’re right there are no guarantees and by the time I’m “ready” I may not want them.

Your career does not need to suffer because of kids unless you have ton of them.

Kids are expensive but if you have stable career you’ll do just fine financially or better than fine.

You also do not need to lead boring life and not travel or live in ugly places because of kids.

I and most of my friends and family members have kids and we all have advanced degrees (graduate degree as a minimum), all have fulfilling professional careers, travel all over the country and world regularly , have ton of exciting hobbies and overall do very well.

I think this idea of giving up career and travel and go broke because of kids comes from old times when women were supposed to give up their career, sacrifice themselves for a man, cook, clean, reproduce, and be quiet. Those times are over. You can have a great life AND have kids unless you envision yourself just as a housewife and just a mother. It’s not necessary

Marriage and relationship also does not need to require major sacrifice. Sacrifices will make you resentful. You can have great marriage without sacrificing your dreams.

I agree, careers nowadays aren't some type of permanent sacrifice because of kids. And sometimes, motherhood may shift a woman's perspective in a way that in turn positively affects the career.

Turning down a marriage proposal explains well why this is such a huge emotional focus for you.

You have expressed some very important feelings here Olive, and you also say you don't feel you are mature enough yet to have a child, well, you are also not mature enough to make the decision "for your life" to never have a child too. That is really what is behind the title of your thread here.

You also need to experience making decisions for yourself too Olive, and that is something you have expressed a desire to do when it comes to your job and career. Your father is advising you and HIS advise may not be right for you too. It's understandable that you experience tension headaches because "other" people are pushing "their" opinions and agendas on you and you want to feel free to make your OWN decisions and that is also the age you are at too. I see a young woman who loves her father, loves her partner of 4 years too, but these two individuals are pushing her to decide things she is clearly NOT ready to decide and she wants them both to give her space to make decisions for herself.

First you need to do this for your own inner child part Olive.

I think you sound that you grew up in a very traditional environment/family/life style where women supposed to listen to their parents and to their men. They suppose to move from parental home into man’s home, support his career choice and be his rock all while honoring her parents. It sounds as you haven’t really lived your own life and haven’t made your own decisions apart from following lead of your parents and your man. Some of the views you are expressing sound very traditonal/old fashioned. Perhaps it’s cultural and it’s ok but you sound conflicted so perhaps these traditional views are conflicting with your inner world.

I would agree it was rather traditional. My dad was very much so the dominant one over my mom, made more money, called the shots. They believe that having a family is the only path to take. When they talk about my future they always mention “their grandkids” but they have never asked me IF I even want kids- it’s just assumed I will have them. They always expected me to honor the parents/ family and think they should come first before any partner/ boyfriend/ husband. But They always preached for me to be my own person, have my own career, not depend on a man.

I have attempted to lead my own life separate from my family- I moved out the house the day after my 18th birthday. I picked a career and partner they don’t approve of, live somewhere they don’t approve of. Not in spite of them but just because I wanted those things. I do think that my decision making skills are pretty bad because I’m already an indesive person with a lot of overbearing presences- parents, older sister, headstrong boyfriend.

While I do face a lot of indecision with my career and relationship I hold on to three main truths: I will 100% change my career. Plus I do want a family and I want to spend my life with my bf. Unfortunately I don’t get to do both so I have to choose. I don’t think that I am such a mindless person that I only want a family because of my family influences but I have also never explored the concept of not having kids and how that would make me feel- until now.

I agree it’s a big decision to say in this moment: “yes I will commit to NEVER having kids for the rest of my life”. Even my best friend who has been saying she never wants kids since we were children is willing to keep the option open for revisiting in the future. In your mid- 20s you have that luxury.

It is a much easier choice to make when you aren’t already in love with someone and haven’t already envisioned a future together. I want him in my future, I love him, and it is too painful to accept that we are incompatible.

I want to keep the option of kids open but I have another person on the line. From my bfs perspective he’s 100% sure he wants to marry me and does not want to have kids. Giving up being a mother for someone else seems like it will lead to future conflict? Just like him having kids just to be with me would lead to conflict.

We’ve been planning bits of our future together so it’s understandable that he wants a decision out of me. He’s been having panick attacks, and I had a migraine so I know this limbo were in right now is hard on him and it’s not really fair for either of us. But I honestly don’t know if I will be happier staying with him without kids or breaking up to maybe have kids. How can I know?

I think you see yourself torn between two unsatisfactory options. Either give up your hope of having children (or at least one child) or give up the man you have come to love very much. That kind of a choice would make anyone feel miserable, or even close to despair. I'm trying to point out a very possible third option.

Option #3: Keep the man and have a couple of kids.

Option #3 seems unattainable because you're in the habit of assuming that people know what they want, mean what they say and can't possibly be talked into a different way of looking at things. Your mom and sis have you well-trained. You are trained to think: "I must conform to what is wanted of me by someone else." and - because you respect the rights of others - "I must not jeopardize another person living out their dream."

If Mary Todd Lincoln thought like you, Abraham Lincoln would never have become president. She had to push him into it. (Abe was prone to depression and wasn't interested in being too ambitious.) This boyfriend of yours is a confused young man scared of life. He is exactly the sort of man who tends to be a poor judge of what possibilities life can hold. This has a lot to do with why he is chronically depressed - "severely." He contemplates all the chances of all that can go wrong in life. He's able to work on a doctoral degree because there's really nothing much wrong with his brain. But there's something wrong with his thinking. He needs a strong, clear-sighted woman who is unwilling to follow him down the road to an emotionally impoverished life. You need to stop following and start leading! I think you are a person with a healthier mind (than he has) who could steer this relationship in the direction of a richly satisfying life, if you would stop being the submissive one and take hold of the reins.

I'm not saying you should just defy him, but don't be ready to accept his terms so easily. Ask yourself if he is someone who would be irresponsible in the care of a child. Is he irresponsible in general? Does he pay his bills on time? Does he maintain his vehicle properly? My guess is that he would probably do just fine with fatherhood. Does he have a reasonable capacity for compassion? If he's a cold-hearted, irresponsible guy, then you don't want him for a husband. But, if he makes you feel well-loved, then he would probably do just fine with a child. I'm not saying "Force him." But lots of people have wound up being very successful at something they had to be kind of persuaded into doing. If your guy managed to be nice to your meddling mom and sis who don't like him, but he cooks them breakfast and chauffers them around, then I don't see him becoming miserable toward a child of his own. Yes, there are people who should never have kids. That would be people who are grossly immature, violent, substance abusing, irresponsible, cruel, can't hold down a job, are in terrible health and so on. It doesn't sound like he is anything like that. Maybe he isn't Mr. Rogers. Most dads aren't. I heard a saying once, "The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother."

In the meantime, figure out how you will support yourself, if you do end up having to part with him. He wants you to resolve all the uncertainty - now - by saying you accept childlessness and won't ever hold it against him. Baloney! You are not at all ready to commit to that, so don't! He's just going to have to live with some uncertainty for a while. That's not what he wants, but too bad.

And stop saying he made this intent to remain childless clear right from the beginning. He did no such thing. He hemmed and he hawed. Well, now it's appropriate for you to hem and haw. You are way too quick to want to give others what they want. You were brought up to do that. You are so afraid of being "unfair" to him. So he won't have perfect peace of mind, not knowing what you'll ultimately do. That's okay. Your mind is very disturbed and without peace. He can handle a little suspence. Very often, people prone to depression are people who can't tolerate all their ducks not being in a nice, neat little row. Well, life is messy. Adapting to not being able to control everything is part of what it takes to mature out of chronic depression.

You do not need to make such decisions at 23.

It’s common for young people to think that they will never meet another love.

Most certainly it’s not the case. If it was, then widows and widowers would have no hope for them.

There might be men out there more suited for you (as yours has troubling character traits in addition to not wanting kids). But these decisions don’t need to be made now. You didn’t live enough to know what you should do. If down the road he isn’t the right man then you two would not stay together. Now if you were 33 I’d say make decision now. But at 23? No need.

I have a feeling that urgency of this decision is him threatening to break up. So you perhaps feel you must commit to him now or he’ll break up with you. That’s not a good reason to make commitments.

Trust me when it’s right you just know it and you would not be asking here. When in doubt do not make big decisions. If you are questioning if you should bemarry someone or not (no matter if it’s because of kids or other issues), then the answer is no (or at least not right now). You should only commit if you have no doubts and no questions.

Break up isn’t fun but could be done quickly but legal divorce is more difficult.

Well, IMHO, you are too young yet to make that kind of decision. Right now you are thinking about your career path and having children is not something you really are ready for right now. Your partner is busy thinking about his career path too, and it's understandable that he has no interest in having a child right now, yet he also has a lot more time when it comes to deciding that as men can easy decide to have a child well into their forties after they have had time to experience their lives and explore without having to be tied down to a family commitment.

I'm sorry you are becoming sick over this. I agree with divine, why make these decisions now? You don't know what you want just yet, it seems, and it appears just having to make the choice right now physically affects you. It really shouldn't.

God, 23. I was married and divorced at that age lol. I'm 32 now and feel confident about not having kids. At 23, I wasn't so sure but that's a good thing because I had no clue what I was doing, which can be fun and scary. It's just a life lived, I suppose. I never thought I'd be married. There are no wrong or right decisions.

Can you take a break from having to worry about this? Leave it in the future where it belongs.

I think that shows how I’m not ready to decide but my boyfriend wants a decision. He doesn’t want to be with someone who doesn’t see a future with him or to be together if we will just break up. He predicts my wanting children won’t go away and his not wanting children won’t go away so what’s the point? He does have a point. I may be young (I’m actually 24), and I may not know what I want in a lot of ways but I know I want kids. What I don’t know is how content I’d be without them- how can I at this age? What I don’t know is which I would rather have. What I don’t know is if the timing will ever feel right for me.

I’d love to take a break but it just seems like procrastination. Is it wise to continue a relationship I’m not sure may even have a future? Like I said my boyfriend thinks we should break up since I’m not sure if I can handle being childless or not so the decision does need to me made- and fast.

If it's making you and your boyfriend so stressed out that it physically manifests in your body then taking a break is probably best. That's not procrastination. That is self-care.

Again, you guys are trying to plan for a future you are unsure of. And the planning is stressful for the both of you when it shouldn't be. If he wants an answer from you, why isn't he content with you not knowing what you want? This doesn't have to be yes or no. If you don't know when or if you wanna have kids, then that is the answer. He can do what he wants with that. But it seems like he is trying to find a reason for the relationship to end. And I think you deserve to be with someone who respects where you are right now.

Putting a deadline on this or making predictions that are unfair to make right now is not cool.

I don't know why my own old bf memories popped into mind. Had 1 guy tell me that it couldn't work "because" he said I miraculously didn't like kids. Had another guy say "because" the exact opposite reason-that I was going to want kids and he wasn't planning on them. Go figure. Neither of them made sense looking back on it.

Anyways. Some men don't want to be seen as the villain. They'd rather be seen as the victim. (note...works both genders but for all intents and purposes of this thread) People do sometimes tell themselves lies even to themselves to lessen the guilt or grief.

Those 2 were my in between rebounds. Not marriage talk which does make the intensity different, yet, that's what sprang to my mind as I was reading the thread.

It’s not a procrastination but rather an opportunity to take time to think and reflect. But since he thinks you two should break up, I believe that’s the wisest option. He is giving you the way out. He is looking for ways to end it. So you either accept it and leave or suggest temporary separation. But don’t make sacrifices or lose self respect in order to keep this man. I am sorry.