Assault?

“Thank you for sharing. Can you explain what happens typically when you're experiencing a BPD episode?”

It’s hard to compare it to your situation, because mine is very different.

When I married, I did not think I had any emotional difficulties, really hadn’t thought about that. It was not feeling, but being physically and emotionally neglected by my husband who isn’t a bad guy at all, just preoccupied with his stress from career and does not have ability to connect in the way I need. The struggle has gone on for way too long and I eventually showed traits of BPD. I feel it is out of exasperation with him, but there may be underlying causes that are emanating from me.

It’s honestly hard for me to relate to your husband’s involvement with your daughters, as my own father was totally uninvolved with us girls, and my husband was pretty much uninvolved with our three sons. I did most all the raising of our sons and husband and I did not butt heads about anything. He supported and agreed with my parenting.

We are older than you, and I understand fathers are now much more involved. So IDK if your husband’s involvement is typical or not.

FYI- All three of our sons slept in a bassinette next to my bed for the first six months, then went into their own room in their crib. Two brothers shared a room, then the third son had his own room while the two older ones shared a room through high school because they liked it. I’m just pointing this out to show you our parenting style. There were no issues with them having separation anxiety.

I do have emotional attacks, meltdowns, raging at my husband. I think it’s anxiety overload. It’s always over this sexual dynamic. I never do anything to hurt him; not physical, not financial, not impulsive danger cruelty... nothing like that. Just basic bytching and crying. . I was not really diagnosed BPD. I was diagnosed EDD- emotional dysregulation disorder (but when you look that up it says it’s BPD) and a different psychiatrist agreed, when I posed it to him, that I have BPD traits, which is not the full blown disorder. There is a BPD sub forum on PC if you want to read about and from others.

I don’t think MsLady and her partner are that much younger. From my understanding they are in their 40s.

I think parental involvement differs by a life style. My dad was very involved with us because both my parents worked full time so they had to take turns. My grandpas were involved in child rearing too because grandmas also worked full time. Same happened with me and my ex. I think in families where both parents work and take turns with child care, then dads are more involved. If dad works and mom stays home, sometimes that’s how responsibility is divided. One works, then the other raises kids. I have a coworker whose husband is stay at home dad. I am sure he is more involved than her as he is there all day

My daughter slept in the crib in the same room for a long time because we had no extra rooms. No separation anxiety and no desire to be in the same bed. It’s not particularly safe as one could roll over on top of the kid or knock them down. But of course co sleeping does happen and it’s ok. Just longer it goes on, more likely kids to have a separation anxiety. Sometimes we got to let the kids to grow up little by little plus I think it’s important for a young couple to share a bed. Unless they’d rather not... which is a separate issue

I came across the term emotional dysregulation recently, too. It talked about how it's often a case of frontal lobe damage. It came up when reading about BPD so I'm not surprised you have a similar experience with that. At the very least, BPD or not, I definitely believe my partner is emotionally dysregulated.

I have 3 children and it's only my 3 year old that exhibits seperation anxiety. It's why we put her into preschool. It's who she is and has nothing to do with her sleeping arrangements. I've been working with her around it. She's definitely improving and becoming more sociable with others, including other children her age. Having said that, if I told her today I'd be moving back into my room, she'd panic. I've already frontloaded with her about it and see a glimpse of fear to the idea. My plan is to move forward at her pace, much like I did with her preschool transition. It was slow but she was finally able to be there without me being present. We were all very proud of her, and so was she. Then covid19 came.

My older son did not have seperation anxiety at all. We bedshared as well. I'd drop him off to daycare full time, 730-4, mon-fri, starting at 1yr. I was devastated but I became a single parent, enrolled back to school, in order to find a job to financially support us. Dad didn't pay support until he was a teen. Anyway, he was not at all anxious about it. I'd cry in the elevator. He was pretty chill. My 3yr old, very much the opposite.

So.. I don't want to muck up that for her. I don't want to be forced into multiple directions, trying to adjust so many different things at once, while financially drowning. I've always been financially independent.

I was finally able to discuss the scenario with my partner. The bottom line was, he simply misjudged my reasoning for being in his room. I mentioned I was just there to debrief with our daughter, an important piece for us both to do. He said I've completely changed the story now but admitted he said a lot of things he shouldn't have. He felt he was in "protective mode" and was reactive because of it.

As much as he has a better understanding about where I was coming from, he still doesn't understand that, by creating a false illusion against me, he had my daughter fear me for what I was "going to do". Some of his interpretation was accurate, by looking at it at face value, but doesn't get why it got to that point.

He said he knew I wasn't hurting our daughter, even though he made that claim. He also said he shouldn't have commented about social services, taking away our girls.

I told him I was physically shaking, my voice was shaking, and went into protective mode. I told him how traumatic it was and how I'm still feeling the effects from it, a week later. I told him HE scared our daughter by his own actions and way of thinking.

He tells me he's "worried" about me because I've lost weight, have visible breathing difficulties, and chest pains. He tells me he wants to "help" me the "best way he can" and to let him know so he can be supportive.

I mentioned how important my daily breaks (1.5-2hrs) are for me. It helps me decompress, get fresh air, exercise, and relax my body. It helps me a lot! He said, "Oh." He struggles with it because he believes I'm doing this to "get away" from him. I said I'm doing this for me BECAUSE of him. He suggested I walk our dog more often then. I said I have been and it's been a problem with him, too. He said it's because I "take too long". I'm gone for about 25-40min max.. and not daily. He says he just wants us to spend as much time together, being positive and having fun. He wants to feel loved. He also can't handle both girls at the same time and would rather I at least take one child with me.. which works against what I need for me. So, I'm not budging. He can work something out while I'm on a short break. He takes breaks all the time.

As much as he understands, since he has a strong command of the English language (gawd), I really feel there's a disconnect. He can't empathize and understand my feelings as it plays out (being guarded, feeling scared, being uncomfortable with his affections, etc). He JUST feels rejected. I told him that's for him to sort out and he said he'd try.

I dated men who wouldn’t understand or pretended not to understand my need for space. I thought it was ridiculous. I couldn’t be with them, space isn’t negotiable. But looks like it’s not that uncommon for men to deny women their space.

It’s good your daughter is going to pre school to become more social (although it’s all on hold now, sadly)

Does your partner not work? I’d think with only one person working there’d be no time for monitoring who is doing what

He's been working from home during covid19. We're currently working out our new schedule for the Fall.

“. When emotion regulation strategies such as reappraisal are engaged, the frontal lobe—particularly the prefrontal cortex—downregulates emotion-related regions such as the amygdala by inhibiting neural activity to these regions “
Controlling Your Emotions | Psychology Today

Twenty years into my journey of not getting any real help from a variety of therapists, I have recently seen a new psychiatrist who says I have “brain damage from prolonged trauma”. I have no major medical illnesses (like your husband has MS). My trauma is a series of events, the majorly triggering one being this relationship dynamic with my husband. (Married 28 years)

Your situation is more complicated than I can really understand. I take it you are thinking that he has a medical condition that is causing him to act emotionally dysregulated, and possibly suspect it is due to the MS (maybe it is).

Is this behavior of his a new thing? Has his personality drastically changed?

But then there is also the possibility that he is setting you up to not fare well in a divorce, child custody, and maybe he has bad ulterior motives?

After the confrontation you just had with him, going with him to a psychiatrist to discuss the concern for his change in emotional behavior regarding the incident ought to bring both possibilities regarding his mental health or bad intentions to light. It also brings someone else into the event as a voice of reason to hear that you are not a mother who is endangering your child.

I’d want that made quite clear to whoever can help, if he is trying to paint you as a danger.

I am not at all clingy to anyone. My husband is actually more clingy to me (or let’s say prefers to spend most all his time with me). Though, when I want to do anything by myself he’d never stop me. And I am fine with him taking an entire week vacation with his group of male friends, which he does every year. This year I was glad to have the break.

.. suggesting what?

It's possible. I do find his responses are getting worse. I wonder how much influence his previous drug addiction has had on him, plus the MS lesions on top of it. Part of me is really angry at him.. and part of me wonders if it's medically related. As I mentioned already about my stepdad. His personality altered a fair bit after his strokes (he had three). He was still his calm self but at times would go into verbal rages.

I don't know. I worry about this.. but I really don't think he wants to separate. I really don't think it's in his best interest to, either, and for multiple reasons.

Well, because of the incident and having 2 young children, I worry a psychiatrist would involve social services. I don't want to go there. He's also a compulsive liar so I'd worry he'd use the psychiatrist to his advantage, too.

Here's something he's suggested we try:

Right now, the "warm-up" seems like it'll sound phony and superficial.. or that I'd be "forced" to acknowledge something "positive" when I'm feeling pretty beat up. I'm not handling compliments well these days. I keep my thoughts to myself but just hearing him pay me a compliment makes me feel tense. I guess it's because I don't think his words are authentic and trustworthy.. and perhaps a "strategy" his DBT is having him do.

He really is trying. It's just not enough because these episodes don't happen often at all but when they do, it really pulls the rug from under me.

We had a situation tonight. We took our girls to the playground. Dad had the 1yr old while I finished off my coffee. I kept eyes on our 3yr old, then we were going to switch.

When I finished my coffee (within 5min) I turned around to put my empty coffee cup into the stroller. When I turned back, dad had the 3yr old. I scanned the playground and couldn't see the 1yr old. So I said, "Where's [name]?!" He said he didn't know. He thought "I" had her. I found her right away. She was nearby but not the point. No one was watching her in that brief moment and he blamed me.

So I told him "no" I didn't have her yet. He assumed I had her because she apparently headed towards me. I said we need to communicate when there's a switch off. He got irritated and said we should "just go home". No, we just arrived. We ended up staying.

I didn't like how we agreed on who was going to be with the 1yr old, but once she went "missing" (for that 10sec), I became responsible for it. Then when I clarified what we agreed on, he wanted to go home.

Here's another scenario, and one probably not worth mentioning..

Tonight he mentioned how tired he was because we were up all night, the night before (texting). I said, "All night?" He said, "Ya, weren't we texting until 3 or 4am?" We called it a night, just before 2am. Yes, it was late but not "4am" late.

It's typical for him to give inaccurate information. I often feel like "nothing" is true, coming from him. Either he gives a flat out lie, or he exaggerates and minimizes a story.

.. then he tells me he "no longer lies" because he's really working on being more transparent with me. Um, ok.

Maybe it was an honest mistake because it was late, regardless. I just can't help but notice when he does things like this. Or maybe HE was up until 4am doing something else and blaming me.

Posted by TishaBuv View Post
“. When emotion regulation strategies such as reappraisal are engaged, the frontal lobe—particularly the prefrontal cortex—downregulates emotion-related regions such as the amygdala by inhibiting neural activity to these regions “
Controlling Your Emotions | Psychology Today

.. suggesting what?
^ You mentioned you were reading about emotional dysregulation and the frontal lobe damage. This was also just recently told to me by my new psychiatrist. I was not given any image scanning test. Just from an interview, the psy determined about me, did not give me any diagnosis and when I asked him about one, he didn’t want to. He used the term “brain damage from prolonged trauma” and when his variety of meds did nothing for me he later said “treatment resistant” (which I take as he must mean depression).

If you go to a psychiatrist with your husband, I expect this will be addressed with him, too. IDK how you both would present to them what is going on within the relationship, how they’ll proceed or what they’ll think.

As for the incident with the lean/push, threat of police, struggles over bedtime parenting control, and your daughter crying; IDK if that warrants any mandatory call to child welfare, tbh. I’m not an expert. Maybe you can find out if that kind of event would make your life more difficult or if this is exactly the kind of reason to get professional help.

The Union Meeting might be good to do as it is his idea and you can start with the smallest things. When it comes to inability to compromise on the deal breaker things, what will happen?

I joke that I never took my eyes off my kids for eighteen years. I never trusted anyone to watch them. Even if my h and I were in the park with the kids, it was my eyes scanning and watching for their safety at all times. He wasn’t that sharp to stay focused on them. I’m not saying that all men are that way. I’m just wondering if it would make your life easier to stop trying so hard to equally coparent with your h, and you take the reigns more(even if he does not realize you are and thinks he is coparenting equally).

The one y/o was missing for a minute. You got into an argument with your h over whose responsibility is was to watch her. My mama bear instincts would tell me that I just always need to watch both girls at all times.

How can you stand to live with a liar? Has he always been one? Do you lie, too? I’ve certainly told small lies when I’ve had to , but generally don’t lie and can’t tolerate it from others. It undermines everything.

I find it curious that you find it so important and bothersome that he said 3am if it was 2am. It makes zero difference. Staying that late arguing is a bit strange and I’d feel it was all night too. Perhaps he exaggerated. I don’t see any benefit in texting fight especially late at night. There are more serious issues in your home than him being wrong on the time

Your partner is incompetent parent. He can’t be trusted alone with kids. He is unable or unwilling to be responsible for them. You said he can’t even baby sit them when you are out of the house for 2 hours. I’d not allow him alone with kids

I find it concerning and disconcerting that you put so much effort into "understanding" him through these post-incident conversations and through quasi self diagnoses rather than putting down your foot about unacceptable and abusive behaviors. He should be aware of the fact that his behavior towards you, ie, raising his voice, accusing you of abuse and threatening to call police and social services is NOT OK and something you will NEVER allow.

You are far too understanding of this very sick man's disposition. And you are trying far too hard to work on this with him by understanding all of his twisted emotions that cause him to act in abusive ways.

If it were me, I would be steering clear of him entirely and I would not be giving him any of what he needs from me. He would know 100% that I do not accept the abuse by showing him that I am not going to give him affection, attention or understanding of how he feels. I would be putting my foot down so much more, and I would be walking away from him in every way possible. I feel you are coddling him far too much, enabling him and therefore, enabling further toxic behaviors from him. When does it end?

And yes, he should 100% be able to manage 2 hours alone with the kids without you being present. He is far too needy for your attention and presence, and he is an incompetent parent.

I don't know why you even want to try at this point. I'd be giving up and walking away entirely. Especially after the last incident. I know you're "stuck", but I would be calling it quits after someone did that to me. I would NOT want to coparent with them in any way shape or form from that point onwards.

No no.. it was about 10 SECONDS, if that. I was watching both girls when I turned around to put away my cup. She's one though and moves fast. She wasn't in danger. It was more of the principle that as soon as we lost track of her, I was blamed for it, even though at that time, we agreed he'd have her until I was ready for her.

We ended our conversation just before 2am. He initially said we were "up all night". We weren't so I clarified.. he then said 3 or 4pm. It's a habit for him to exaggerate and minimize a situation, much like the scenario of him shouting for police.. completely out of proportion.. that's why it's a trigger. He's admitted he does this. It's not ok.

We were discussing the incident because I felt it was important for him to understand where I was coming from. I wanted him to realize how his actions scared our girls and what my intentions were when I entered the room. He was in complete denial because he was stuck in his head. We started the conversation at midnight. We discussed some solutions to consider. I set boundaries.

He's a good dad and has a good attachment with both his girls. It's only when he gets into this mental mode (the feeling of rejection and perceived attack) that he becomes emotional and out of proportion. Remember, we're not in crisis on a regular basis. I just noticed since my older daughter was 1yr, that his reactions have intensified.

That's exactly what I've been doing. I've been setting and keeping my boundaries. This incident is yhe first time in 6 years this has happened to this level. He does have a medical condition. I'm unable to leave right now so the only thing I CAN do is understand it so I can better be prepared.

I agree, 100% and that was part of the conversation I was having with him until 2am.

I've raised a 20yr old with special needs who had volatile behaviours at times. If I didn't UNDERSTAND his behaviours, I was not of any help and the behaviours would continue. It was always important for me to get to the root of the situation so I knew how to handle it best.

You said your partner was supposed to be watching 1 year old, not you. He wasn’t watching her but then blaming you when she was unsupervised and you couldn’t find her.

Sure he loves his kids but he can’t ever handle them, according to you. They scream and cry and look frightened when he is alone with them etc You can be a loving parent but then be totally incompetent.

It’s understandable that you were looking for roots of your son’s problems in order to help him. You are his mother. We are responsible for helping and treating our children and we are responsible for getting them medical help etc That’s what mothers do, take care of their children. I don’t believe it’s the same with your partner. You aren’t this man’s mother, he is an adult. Poorly behaved adult.

If you believe MS causes these issues, I’d demand doctor providing the info on it. I’d not just assume. My husband has Tourette’s and OCD, he is neither abusive nor poorly behaved. If he started acting badly, id not just assume oh it must be Tourette’s. I’d be in a doctors office with him. It’s not enough to read that it might cause problems for people. That’s general information. It isn’t specific for your partner. Ton of people with MS are loving partners, not liars or abusers. It doesn’t apply to everyone.

It would have to be a requirement for him to stay with you: doctor appointment with specific explanation of his behaviors and treatments lined up. Same with perceived BPD. Diagnosis by a psychiatrist is needed to determine BPD, reading about it isn’t enough to diagnose people

Have you heard about the Dialectical Behaviour Therapy? It's suppose to help with BPD and Emotional Dysregulation.

No not "can't ever" or "always" .. it's just when he's stuck in his head. I've seen him handle behaviours really well. There are times when he's emotional about ME that impairs his ability to work through a simple problem. It's the internal dialogue he has with himself that eats away at him, causing him to feel emotional, unloved, and unwanted.

I'm noticing an increase in symptoms when he's in this state.. and probably because of other factors, too. I'm guarded with him now which he's noticed; I'm home from work now, spending a lot of time at home; I'm taking more "me" time; there's covid19.. so I'm starting to see a pattern I wasn't aware of before. I'm not his mother but I'm the mother of his children. I'm currently unable to leave right now so I have to work with what I'm presented with. I do love him and my family. I want to help as much as I can before throwing in the towel. I really don't believe he's "just" abusive.

I don't "believe" anything. I'm questioning everything. I'm trying to make sense of it. Yes, I have thought about bringing this up with his specialist. I usually go with him but I was unable to at last visit because of the girls. It's a probability. Not a conclusion. I think the drug addiction may have had more effects on him.. I'm not a doctor, though. These are all thoughts in my head that seem fitting. If it weren't for me, he wouldn't have come this far with his therapies. I've seen therapists, too.

I wouldn't say OCD and Tourette's is connected to brain "injury". I believe my son's volatile behaviours were more to do with his sustained brain injury rather than his special needs diagnosis. Same with my stepdad and his stroke.. brain injury.

Yes, I agree. It also works on a spectrum, too, much like Autism. It depends where in the brain lesions are formed. It's all speculative, yes, but I do need to consider it as a possibility. I do find the DBT has been helpful.. that's a good sign. It's suppose to help with people with frontal cortex damage. So at the very least, as of today, it's a reasonable tool to help us all as a family.

I'm not diagnosing him. I'm looking at the behaviours and trying to make sense of it.

MsLady, why not see a doctor with him to confirm your suspicions of BPD? You are not qualified to either diagnose nor start treating an illness that you don't even know exists.

Why are you trying to explain away his behaviors by means of diagnosing him as having a mental illness that you can then say is causing these behaviors? You're spending a lot of time and energy on things you're not qualified to determine.

If you really suspect this, then see a doctor with him and get a real diagnosis. Get him an MRI and talk to doctors. You're doing a lot of speculation without medical consultation and tests.

Perhaps it's too hard to face the fact that he is abusive. Maybe that's too hard to stomach for you, and you'd prefer to think his behavior comes from mental illness or brain damage. I really do not know. What's so wrong with determining that he's abusive towards you, and that perhaps you need to leave him because of that?

Yes, I learned about it from others on PC. There is a DBT Workbook that I got a copy of and read some. Others here say it really helps them.

I’m confused with your husband situation., At first it sounded really volatile and now it sounds very minimal.

I have also had a toddler disappear for a few minutes while with me. They are slippery!

There were times my husband’s watching the kids was not up to par, but not life threatening. For example; I once left him with them and came home to him watching the opening beach massacre scene of Saving Private Ryan, the three and one year old standing there in shock watching the carnage with him and I darted across the room to slam off the TV.

The things you are now describing now sound like times like I’ve had that I thought were just minor goofs. Thankfully, I found the toddler immediately.

It's "minimal" because it's irregular. It's "volatile" because when it DOES happen, his reaction is increasingly getting worse. Like I said, he's broken up with me 3 times in the past year.. 4 times altogether. It's all to do with rejection and a perceived attack. He really doesn't want me to leave.

We all overlook things, yes. My point wasn't that we lost track of our 1yr old, as brief as it was. It was more to point out (in my frustration) that I was being blamed for it. When I tried to be clear, he cut me off and wanted to go home. It was another case of perceived "attack".. he knew he hadn't communicated with me about the exchange as we usually do at the playground. Something "happened" and he deemed himself as "not responsible".

If he was completely in denial and refusing any counseling or therapy .. or even acknowledge some of these issues, I'd see this entirely different. Classic abusers are "perfect". They "never do any wrong". My partner started off this way.. in denial.. but he's come a long way. I've pointed out a lot of issues. He's acknowledge some.. it's a start.

I only brought up example of my husband that if he started acted abusive, I’d not self diagnose him or assume I know what it is. I’d insist on doctor’s assessment. Not my own. Unless his doctor told you he acts like this because of brain injury and BPD or what not, I’d not make these assumptions. If he is becoming progressively more unstable, seeing a doctor is a step one

I’m sorry you are having to go through this. We’re just speculating. The best thing to do is go to his doctor with him and find a psychiatrist and go with him.

I hear what you are saying about how he has been getting progressively more volatile. You said you feel like ‘there is no limit to what he might do to hurt you.’

When you have kids together, you can’t leave your partner and not share parenting with those kids. It’s a slippery slope because now the partner has the kids alone and without you to protect them.

I’m glad he’s willing to get help. You can get a FaceTime appoint and see the doctors now, if need be. Don’t wait.

It sounds so exhausting to analyze your partner like this. It must be very tiring. Especially if you don’t know if your analysis is correct. He needs proper treatment if it’s truly caused by true medical diagnosis