Assault?

OMG, I've responded to this 3times and it won't let me respond!! .... grr

Later.

I understand. With the research I've done, DBT seems to be the best therapy for these types of behaviours. So I'm giving this a chance.

We're always communicating. We're always talking about what we can do to make things better.. for us, the girls, and our family. He's receptive. A classic abuser would NOT adhere to any advice.. let alone, feedback.

What I'm struggling with personally, is forgiving him in a way that allows me to be more affectionate towards him. I'm guarded and angry so when he love bombs me because HE'S feeling it, I resent him and pull back. Sorry, buddy. I don't trust it. He struggles with this piece a lot.

I really don't care he's feeling rejected and unloved by me. I think he has a lot of balls to tell me he struggles emotionally when I take these breaks, because he thinks I "just want to get away from him". What a self-centered approach. Tough luck! I've been experiencing chest pains, breathing difficulties, headaches, sleeplessness, and weight loss since covid19 began BECAUSE of him.. and he's crying because I don't give him enough affection? Wow. I'm taking breaks for me. "Deal with it" is my attitude.. and he's trying to.

I'm not "treating" him. His therapist, who has a background in psychology, is. She was the one that recommended the DBT.

Why not see a doctor about it? Because the recommended therapy is DBT, anyway.. which he's already doing.

All I can do at this point is work with what I have. I'm not diagnosing him. He has a diagnosis already and I'm questioning if it's a piece to the problem. It was our couple's therapist that mentioned to us about "brain injury".

He gets MRIs, yearly.

He does go through bouts of depression and says he's anxious at times. He's brought up about feeling suicidal, at times.. so I suspect there's mental illness in there.

I just think all of these issues combined ought to spell out a bigger root.

Of course it is possible he has mental illness, as many others. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for him to behave inappropriately or that you have to put up with it. He feels anxious sometimes and had bouts of depression, as probably half of everyone I know. It doesn’t necessarily mean he has mental illness and surely doesn’t mean his behaviors is caused by that. It’s all about what you are willing to live with. Sure you could spend more years trying to change him. It might work or might not.

What attracted you to this man that you wanted to live with and have children with? I am sure he has some redeeming qualities but was it enough to tie yourself to him?

When we met, I had just left a marriage. My son was also going through a particularly challenging time since he hit puberty. I had also decided to abandon my family due to a long history of toxic behaviours which was affecting my mental well-being. He was very kind to me, affectionate, and supportive. At first he was just my escape from reality. I felt isolated, overwhelmed, and beaten.

He helped me through some of my challenges with my son. He was very understanding about his condition and didn't judge him. So, I felt very supported.

Prior to us dating, I had known of him for many years through different means. We lived in the same community and was always friendly towards me, in passing. He was interested in dating me for many years but 1) he was also dealing with an addiction at the time 2) I was involved/married.

At the beginning of our relationship, I thought he was a really nice guy. We didn't argue at all. There were definite red flags around boundaries and clingingness.

As our relationship progessed, I had changed my mind about not wanting more children. I realized I was just afraid to, due to my son's health. It was a reason why I walked away from my marriage. I also hoped my son would one day settle (which he has). I always wanted him to have siblings. He, too, wanted sisters for as long as I could remember... I didn't want to "leave this world" with him all alone. So, we opted to have children. We wanted 2 so the girls could have each other growing up. I don't regret this decision as they are wonderful girls.. very loving, affectionate, kind, and fun. I love seeing them interact with their big brother.

I didn't understand these behaviours as "abusive" until very recently. He wasn't physical. He didn't scream/bully me as an abuser would (except during this current incident).. and I had never heard of "gaslighting", "covert abuse", and "emotional dysregulation".

No one is perfect. When we'd "butt heads", I thought he was just being a "jerk".. lacked "filters" .. was being "insensitive".. never "abusive".

Also, I've always lived a very busy life. I worked with various teams with my son.. worked full time plus tutored on the side. Having my daughter added further busyness to my schedule. It wasn't until I was pregnant with my second (third) that things started to become concerning for me.

Since covid19 especially, I've started seeing things very differently. So now I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

What IS his diagnosis?

Your husband is not being "treated". He is using a workbook, without reflecting on the lessons with a therapist. He needs therapy sessions along with the workbook. He should be addressing his feelings of rejection with a therapist, and he should be working on how to appropriately and respectfully respond to those feelings without abusing you. The DBT workbook did not stop him from escalating the abuse further, and from abusing you in front of your child. Abuse statistically worsens and escalates over time. So what will it be next time?

My husband has ADHD, depression and anxiety, but I am not analyzing his mental health issues in order to understand and dissect his abusive behaviors. He is abusive, period, and I told him I will not put up with his abuse any longer. I have PTSD, anxiety and depression, yet I am not abusive.

When you say you "suspect" it's something more, you are trying to play psychologist with him, rather than addressing the abuse directly. It's like you're dancing around the real issues, dissecting and analyzing it to death, spending lots of time on it trying to figure it all out, which is circumventing the real issue at hand. He is increasingly abusive, and it's going to continue as long as you continue to not address it directly.

MsLady said he has MS. It could cause a lot of stress. But I’d still need a doctor explaining that it’s a reason he is abusive. Can’t just assume or go by what books say. Every person is individual and assessment needs to be individual

It seems that DBT got him to focus on being a good person. Hence sticky notes around the house “I am a good person”. It doesn’t sound like it was addressing any kind of bad behaviors. And MsLady was in fact triggered (understandably) by this development. I don’t see how reading DBT books is improving anything without professional help (if his behaviors caused by medical issues etc).

Ah, ok, now I remember. Thank you. I agree. He needs to be assessed by a doctor for any additional diagnoses.

Yeah, I would find that to be very triggering too.

And I agree about the sticky notes. He doesn't need to tell himself he's a good person, because he's not a good person right now. He needs serious BEHAVIORAL changes. Not sticky notes telling him how great he is, when he's in fact, abusive.

If I understand what's happening, I can depersonalize it to avoid being triggered and react. I can view the scenario as an outsider and proceed differently. When I react, the scenario worsens. Had I remembered he was feeling rejected, from earlier in the night, I wouldn't have personalized his disregard and shut the door on him. I would have connected the dots and later addressed the rejection piece somehow.

I do agree, the workbook alone is not enough. Our therapies are short term, due to our benefits package. We're only allowed up to 6 sessions per file. So it made sense to me that he opted to work through the book a bit before setting another appointment. I reminded him the other day I want him to book another appointment. And ya, him addressing the "rejection" piece is what I believe he needs to address during his next session, and how he behaves around it.

I'm really more interested in the patterns of behaviour. I'm now able to notice that when he's triggered and has become emotional/abusive, one of three things has happened:

If I keep this list in the forefront, I can navigate through it differently. I can label it for what it is and keep things in perspective. I NEED to do this for ME.

The sticky notes is work done through the DBT. It was a trigger for me to read those messages but I get it's the "assignment". I'm just glad he's doing something about it.

My greatest stress isn't that he behaves in this way. I mean, telling me to move out and his "plans" around the girls, definitely has been hard to work through. But the stress is seeing him become an entirely different person. The term "splitting" really resonates with me. I feel that's exactly what is happening and don't need a doctor's validation around it. Again, a lot of this is done behind the scenes. This particular scenario, was not. I'm part to blame, though. I should not have reacted in the way I did, by 100%. Abusive though? I'm struggling with that.

The other stress for me is around his understanding about what's happening. It really does seem like he switches into momentary "paranoia" and reacts from it. When we debrief, his understanding and willingness to see things from my perspective, alters significantly. It's that "lizard brain" that interferes.

The biggest abuse I feel is when he's in this state AND involves others. He doesn't go back to them, after the fact, to clarify anything. He's "confided" to them he's "made mistakes" and is an "emotional person" .. to which he says they're all very supportive of him. But he doesn't clear my name nor does he admit that his "mistakes" are abusive. He struggles with admitting that to HIMSELF. These people, his family/NEIGHBOURS and friends are very guarded against me. They all give me that same disapproving "look" when they see me, which validates him further if he even notices. It feeds into my insecurities and isolates me further. It's all about preserving image. His dad is the same way and a known gossiper. I don't doubt he's "disclosed" information.. aka, my partner's "stories" to help preserve both their images. Anyway, I could go on more about that.

I do believe there's a probability that his previous drug use and MS play a significant role here. Brain damage plays out in many different ways and he's been made aware of that. I don't see him as a classic abuser. I've been with one, already. My siblings have all been with multiples, too. I lived with it as a child. My experience with my partner feels different to me. There's a parallel between my son's behaviours and his.. we used to joke about some of it. Brain injury.

So, I'm going by the recommendation he received by his therapist. I've done enough research to believe in my heart, that despite whether or not BPD or MS or brain injury is a factor in this, the DBT therapy will address the BEHAVIOURS.

The DBT got him to focus on some of his behaviours. He just started the therapy and acknowledged it'll take time for a shift to take place.

I've seen improvements with how he behaves in public around other women. He's conscientiously more aware of himself and is more present. I've seen improvements when we're in conversation, he's more present and listening to me and there's a better "ebb and flow" in our discussions. I've seen an improvement with how he responds to feedback, pending that it's not a list of 3 triggers. He's not as defensive. I see him taking deep breaths and teaching our daughter to, when she's upset about something. I've seen improvements with not spending so much time on his cell, possibly involved in his "secret social life" that no longer seems present. So, the DBT has made positive changes, so far. Yes, he hasn't gotten into the "meat" just yet.

.. and remember, I can't leave right now. So, this is where I'm at.

I acknowledge what you are saying about seeing improved behaviors in some ways.

However, I stand by my original stance: the DBT workbook did not prevent him from accusing you of abuse, raising his voice at you in front of the child, and yelling that he will call the police and social services.

I also think that instead of addressing his abuse directly with him, that you are learning how to adjust and modify YOUR behaviors to accommodate his insatiable needs around rejection, perceived attacks, and whatnot. This is basically modifying how you respond so that you don't trigger him into abusive behavior. Again, I think you're coddling him rather than addressing the fact that he is abusive.

He tells bad things about you to other people like family friends and even neighbors? It’s a no no in a relationship. Major betrayal!

Thank you.

The DBT book is not a magic pill. It'll take time. He believes he raised his voice because he went into "protection mode".. it's that "momentary paranoia" I feel played itself out. He was stuck in his head. He really believed I went into his room to "steal" our daughter away "against her wishes". He fell into the triangulation and still is unable to understand how the scenario unfolded.

You keep saying I'm not addressing the abuse. I have and multiple times. I've been point blank that his behaviours were abusive. Having me on a short leash is controlling. I HAVE to adjust my behaviours IN THE MOMENT. It's survival instinct. The work takes place afterwards when he's back at baseline.

I'm still setting boundaries, despite knowing it's a trigger for him. I'm still taking my breaks, despite knowing it's a trigger for him. I'm still having these conversations with him, knowing how hard it is for him to face his faults. I'm not changing myself.

You are addressing behavior but he continues behaving poorly. He had an incident with the door, the same day he was yelling with a kid in the room, then he argues that you were texting till 4am, next day he isn’t watching a kid but then blames you and wants to go home. It’s every day something. Are you two ever friendly and peaceful? Everything and everyone is on edge.

I understand you can’t leave but this is so stressful! I hope you understand that this isn’t the best way to live. It’s sure way to develop health problems. I hope one day you don’t live like this. It’s unnecessary. Not in nowadays society where women don’t need men to survive.

I hope this stressful life won’t cause you so many health problems that you won’t be able to enjoy your life when you finally leave !

It's no doubt a very difficult position when you are being abused and need to figure out what to do and how to respond. I know this position, because I have experienced it myself.

I am not coming down on you.... I am simply trying to tell you that while you are acknowledging on here that it's abuse, you are not confronting HIM with the fact that he is abusive and that his behaviors are outrageously offensive, divisive, and unacceptable.

Instead, you're trying to learn how to better respond to his needs around rejection so that he doesn't get triggered.

If he's not told straight out, that is unacceptable! I will NOT tolerate this behavior! And if It continues, I will not be a romantic partner for you! Then the behavior is going to continue and it will escalate further.

Debriefing him each time is not going to cut it unless you tell him that his behavior is not allowed and is entirely unacceptable to you.

I'm not sure what exactly he says but if it's anything similar to what he tells me when he's not in the right mindset, then they're not receiving the truth of a situation.

He's admitted to have "vented". He stayed overnight at a friend's house once, when he "broke up with me".. and came back to say, "I AM a good person. I AM caring. You're just insecure and have trust issues you need to work on."

At couple's therapy, the first introduction he gave her was that I have trust issues with EVERYONE.

His dad "jokingly" said I'm "the boss" and that I'm "sensitive". His mom once mentioned we "just need to compromise".

When I went over to his best friend's BBQ, a couple years ago, his (now) wife never approached me to say, "Hi, nice to finally meet you!" She was the hostess. He didn't want me going to their wedding, either, to which he was the Best Man for, even though I was invited. So now I'm not at all interested in spending time with his friends.

His family are my neighbours. They've lived here since my partner was a child. They are very influential and have a lot of friends here. So it's not just my word against his, it's my word against their's.

Ya, a BIG NO-NO, is right. He NEEDS that external sympathy, validation, and attention. It makes me want to barf.

Yes, so to everyone else, he blames YOU and takes NO responsibility for his bad behaviors.

Maybe he's learning and growing in some ways, but he is in denial of being a "bad boy", he blames YOU to those close to him, he is STILL abusive towards you, and it's gotten worse now.

Since our couple's therapist mentioned his behaviours were abusive, a year ago, I've been telling him the same. I think it's why he's now putting it on me.. afterall, I did put my hands on him, so now I'm "physically abusive" even though no one got hurt and my INTENT was not to hurt him. He's projecting. He doesn't like it when I use the word "abuse".. and so I do again and again.

No. I'm learning how to better respond to the BEHAVIOUR, as it's playing out. I've talked with him about needing to address the rejection .. nor have I stopped setting personal boundaries and limiting my "break" times.

I'm not "tolerating" it. I'm addressing these concerns. It's why he's now in therapy. I told him again and again, he is PUSHING ME AWAY by these behaviours. It's really not a CHOICE that I'm UNABLE to give/receive affection.. and I'm not even talking about sex. If he wants to have HIS needs met, he'll need to meet MINE. I've compromised a bit because of the improvements I HAVE seen but I did tell him not to "push it". I'm not a robot. I don't have a "turn off" switch.

I'm puzzled that you're saying this, after everything I've said already. Debriefing is THE ticket that got him to seek professional help.

Yep. That's where we're at now. Until I can exercise my backup plan, I'm banking on the DBT since it's been showing positive changes SO FAR.

It definitely feeds into my anxieties. It definitely makes me feel like all eyes are on me.

It looks like he is learning how to say all the right things to you (admitting his faults etc) and DBT seems to help with that. When you are not in sight, he tells everyone else what he really thinks of you and his own behaviors. He sure is smart

I believe this is what he does when he's in an emotional state. So if he feels rejected, he needs others to "fill that bucket" to feel better about himself.

He's admitted that image is really important to him.

Despite "debriefing" him, what he's doing in his actions, nonetheless, is damaging YOUR image to HIS family and HIS friends and now with your OWN daughters. He IS projecting his abuse onto you. He is STILL exhibiting abusive behaviors, regardless of all.

Why you even bother to work with him is beyond my comprehension. I would have been living with my family by now.

Next, he WILL call the police. He has set it up so that you're the abuser, and he's the victim.

THAT IS CLASSIC ABUSE.

Image is very important to me too. I am not causing problems or speaking poorly of my husband to other people. If he wants for people to have a good image of himself, all he has to do is to behave and take responsibility. I do understand being unable to leave but I don’t understand finding excuses or justifying bad behaviors.

I’d not be able to forgive if my husband lied about me to people, heck even if he was saying unpleasant truth. That’s a classic abuse technique. Alienating you from others by making you look bad. I understand staying under the circumstances, but why not face what’s really happening. He is abusing you and lying about you to make himself look better then he tells you what he read in DBT books and what you want to hear.

Then you debriefing and what other things you do. He humors you and then keeps his bad behaviors. Now he is financially bankrupt in addition to other. things. If he has prominent family they can take him in

Longer you stay and find excuses for him more likely he’ll make it look that you are the abuser here and he is the victim

Yep, I agree. I'm trying to help him because I currently don't have another choice. Next time he won't be calling the police because I won't give him a reason to. He taught me how ugly he plays.

Living with my family is not an option. We're all estranged from each other now. They're all toxic which is how my siblings and I have all landed in abusive relationships. Our extended family members bought into my mother's "stories" much like my partner's family buys into his. I didn't make this connection until AFTER we were already in a relationship. I didn't understand the full picture until recently. So here I am now.

I wish he "would" give me a black eye.. so people can visibly see things as they are. It's interesting I "could" get myself arrested for trying to get him to leave a room, without any intent to harm.. without inflicting ANY harm.. but he can get away with all this, legally, because he didn't PHYSICALLY abuse me. It's truly where he draws the line. I never worry about whether or not he'll physically hurt me. It'll damage HIS image, too much.