I just don't understand how to move on from the past&get my energy back from vampires

God... So I lost this very important relationship - not romantic but it was lost in the wake of a romantic one going real bad traumatic. So I actually lost TWO. Two people I felt the most about ever (other than family). And it's like, I cut them off, but it feels like I lost them because I felt forced to cut them off.

And I don't know how I can move on. I have been processing all this for the last 3 years. I made more sense of what happened. Bad things happened yeah. Very bad ones. Nevermind that part though. It's all in the past.. Eventually I just wanted to be like, I wanted to just focus on myself and turn my back to these people in my past and I noticed this one thing. Is where I am mystified. And it seems to be important!!


So. I've processed enough so that now whenever I am able to turn my back on these people I DO gain energy, vitality, everything, I FEEL like MY OLD SELF. It is awesome.

But it does not last long. It's like I get pulled back in the past real fast with these people. It's like they sucked away so much of my energy, they were vampires in this way, and so it's really hard to get my energy back, get my energy released and regained. And this is why I can't move on from the past. It's as if they installed a hook/worm in my deep subconscious and it holds me back

And then I keep doubting if maybe I should reopen my relationship (the non-romantic one at least) and keep thinking about them and keep caring and keep feeling the old emotions and everything and my attention is sucked in again about them. Just like how it got sucked in back then too (and yes they both manipulated me to achieve that)



Does this make sense to anyone??

How do I move on and regain my energy fully??

Thanks so much for any input.




PS: I will add, this isn't helping: they left a void ofc. And I couldn't find new people to fill it in with, because as a result of all the above, I lost all my energy to find new people. So obviously I have to recover enough first, like rebuild myself, my life, the basics of it, and then I can get to know new people. So the solution for now isn't simply filling in the void, I don't think

OK. It's like I can temporarily resolve their issue and tell myself some reasoning to move on...or "move on". Because the day, my life remains a struggle, a crazy struggle. Because clearly I haven't moved on fully. So I have to fight the stuff I push aside by trying to move on with some reasoning that works temporarily. Then it adds stress and then I keep burning out more and more by trying to just lead a basic life (part-time remote work). It doesn't help I'm alone working from home

I do get better but VERY slowly and sometimes I am really really not sure if I am not just slowly getting worse or something. Like my training got worse and worse and NOT better... and I don't have the energy reserve anymore to reach to if I want to do as much work as before... It's abysmally little I can do without that. : o I used to just do that and then rest&sleep a lot afterwards. I can't anymore, that's what I mean by burnout and I can't push myself without external help anymore. Like I feel more acutely depressed or unhappy or whatever it is, than ever before (but I did block out emotions more before!! It's just scary and dunno how I'm supposed to survive this full contact with all of them)

Do what is called Chord Cutting. If you are spiritual at all, ask the higher beings to cut the energetic chords of attachment between you and these specific individuals. Light a white candle first, and call upon higher beings. Then ask for the energetic chords to be cut that are holding you back from moving on.

You will feel SO much better and you will be able to move on from them.

Thanks for your input!! The weird and funny thing is that when I read your post I was getting inspired "emotionally imagining" what you wrote. And I instantly realised that I was not ready to BELIEVE in this, to believe that this is what I want. Or something like that...

Rationally if I make sure I am not feeling anything then yes I am able to say that "yes I would like the chords to be cut". But emotionally I was not able to say this when imagining the above. Does this make sense?

Though I've tried to imagine it again now. And now I could imagine it better...imagining actually asking the "higher beings".

I do think I fluctuate though emotionally between not wanting to have anything to do with these people and between feeling stuck and still wanting something

(I'm not a very spiritual person BTW but sometimes I can get inspired)

Yes, it makes sense since you may still want something from them. Is it an apology? Validation? A confrontation about what they did wrong to you? What do you think you still need or want from these people?

Well those are very good questions. I didn't even know what to say at first, I had a blank mind but I also had a strong sense of ...uhm, yeah, something about maybe like an apology. It didn't feel like it's exactly like about an apology. But something like that somehow. And I'm coming back to this now. And yeah I think it's clearer now....maybe.... I don't necessarily need it handed to me from them but, it would sure help in some ideal world LOL

So what I'd like is if they told me what they really were doing. What they really wanted from me. Admit to their manipulations, and yeah, well that is the apology part Iguess. But I really just want that sense of closure mentally too and I'm not even sure they can give that to me if they are not self-aware enough and I doubt they are.

With the guy (romantic relationship one), I don't want anything from them otherwise.... The girl, I doubt I would want anything.... IDK I don't want to feel like it's a salvageable relationship.

Anyway. When I first read your post, and had that strong sense of "something like an apology". I actually started imagining this, I imagined that I contact them (even though otherwise that's out of the question), and I ask them what they can tell me, do they feel like apologising or like being more honest and open with me finally.... Like... yeah, I would ask them if they are finally able to hold themselves accountable. Because they never could before.

...

As for confrontation. Yes, essentially that too... in an actually effective way unlike back then. Damn, I remember now. What I imagined exactly. I imagined that I confront them and even if they try to attack me personally and in underhanded ways or dramatic ****** ways like back then, I would be able to not get affected whatsoever. I got terribly affected back then .... But oh, this confrontation here. I THINK I imagined it as actually effective. And it was so strange that I'd actually retry doing confrontation after years passed. And how it would surprise them too, lol. But that is where it "felt" kinda cathartic in the imagination (imagined catharsis, I did not feel it unfortunately)

I read somewhere that traumatic experiences need completion (a so-called "biological completion" perhaps). This felt like that completion, somehow. Where it's all released.

(So yeah, the connection that pulls me back, it's based in trauma too, not cool eh? Really complex)

Oh the confrontation. It would be a more emotional language than back then. Maybe that matters too. I don't know. For example, back then where I was just angry in a generic way, it would be moral indignation at their particular ****. That's just an example though.

I think the only way to stand up to abusers is not having them in your life.

That’s how you move on.

Demanding an apology (not saying that you do) or being angry at them might sound like a powerful move but in reality it gives them power over you, it shows them that they have all the power as you continue hurting while they don’t even care.

End relationships with abusers and erase them from your life by living a better life without them.

Do you see a therapist by chance?

Abusers and toxic people will never show you or give you any accountability or remorse for their poor behavior and poor treatment of you. You may want to hold them accountable, and you have every right to want that from them, but they will never give it to you. Abusers and toxic people do not have the ability to reflect on their actions and hold themselves responsible for the harm they inflict on others. Abusers and toxic people even gain pleasure from inflicting harm on others.

What you can do is write yourself pretend letters, where you confront these people in the way that you wish you could, and write their response back to you in the way that you would like them to reply - ie, taking full ownership of their behavior, apologizing to you and whatnot.

Then re-read your letter several times to yourself whenever you want to reach out to them.

Usually, if you contact an abuser years later, it only just boosts their ego to know that they're still on your mind, and it gives them more power over you.

But if you really want to release these people from your psyche and mind, imagine scenarios where they give you what you need now from them, accept the reality that you will never receive from them what you truly seek, and then set it free in your mind through acceptance.

Acceptance of what happened and of their limitations is a great way to help you move forward.

Take the lessons learned with you, but leave the pain. Give yourself a big hug in knowing that you are a better person for having learned these lessons. We do not need to allow toxic or abusive people into our lives - nor should we. We have to protect ourselves from harm. These people caused you great harm, and it can last for years, as you've noticed. So, take the lessons, and release these people from your mind. You are a stronger person for the experience.

And like divine said, the best way forward is to live a happy life.

Thanks for your post/your trying to help. But I feel something went awry here.



I would like to be clear then if it was not clear in my initial post.... I cut them off, BOTH of them, YEARS ago. I cut off the first one *3 years* ago, the second one *2 years* ago.

Hope this emphasis helps.

Additionally, I don't think it was at all clear to you that I am just writing out my thoughts and feelings on here. Though I assumed it would be clear as this is a psychology forum that I assume people use exactly for that. But let me clarify that too then if it was not clear.

Above, I was writing out my thoughts and feelings, not an action plan. I was writing about these to be able to think more and orient myself better, both emotionally and mentally. I found the above questions for that very good actually as it prompted me to think and feel more about it all and hopefully in a way that helps me get somewhere eventually.

Also... when I said I'm not able to move on I define that as, the past always pulling me back somehow. Though the last few days have been good, but I am wary and afraid that it will happen again, or something. I just don't want to go so deep in it again.

(Though, I have already learned that I cannot forever push down emotions, because they will come back at me with a vengeance and pull me back even stronger. So, I try to find some balance there and not just forever try to push them down, even if they are negative, anger, upset, tension, sadness, or even worse emotions....)

To me moving on is NOT simply cutting out the person out of your life, moving on is actually living your life as normal, happy, a full life, etc. all that. I have NOT been able to do that in the last 3 years.

I recently felt that it was about the energy and attention stolen by these people. I wondered if there was something there. I wanted to understand that, to be able to combat it or get past it or move on or whatever. I mean all that purely in the psychological sense.

And that is why I opened this thread.

I don't need to be told that I need to cut off these people because I've already done that. And that on its own was not enough. Or I would not be here. Sadly.

Thanks for reading and understanding my actual situation.



PS: You asked if I see a therapist. I just recently left therapy, i.e. finished it with a therapist after ~1 year of therapy with them (had other therapists too before her), but I am looking to be admitted to a therapy centre for cPTSD. I've just seen the psychiatrist today and I received my referral from them to this place, so I am hoping it will go well. That is where I am now therapy-wise.

That is all very true. Back then, before I cut them off, I did not know anything about this and so I did try to hold them accountable, which of course did not go well... They did instead attempt to hurt me as bad as they could. So that was on top of the rest that was already bad, yeah.


I think part of my issue is they affected me so deeply (for long, long years) and intensely, that I still am not entirely free from their gaslight or something like that. Like, I just realised today too that I was like, I focused on what the reality was (sad reality, abuse, and all that), and then I was soon like, DOUBTING all that and thinking COMPULSIVELY about giving them the benefit of the doubt and trying to see if maybe they did the best they could or something. Well in a sense they did, LOL. Just that it's not a lot of "best" that they could do, lol. ......

(EDIT: I want to add. When I say "they", I just mean the non-romantic one.... With the other one, I think I no longer doubt. I am clear on how he harmed me and how he didn't do things right with all the manipulation. I have not had doubts about him in quite a while. The old emotions are still there with him too though, regardless. That is what I find so strange. They just come up sometimes and they can come up really with their own force, ie. strongly in a sense....)

And yeah taking responsibility, I tried to see today how they (one of them specifically) didn't take responsibility. Like they constantly did not, not just here and there, but like, they constantly talked about how I was "the problem", and never a respite from that, never them saying anything sincere and responsible and self-aware like "I really am sorry, I should have done x / what would you like me to do to feel better?" Etc etc, that's just one example. It was shocking to me actually that I realised this today, that they never had this sensible, normal, nice attitude towards me when I tried to bring up what I had an issue with (no matter in what way or manner I brought it up). It is sad and shocking that I only realised this today. Maybe the lack of what should be there is what is hardest for me to notice.

Overall I don't know, I'd like to be able to stop doubting and to stop my attention from going to these people again. I don't really understand yet how to get to that place though.


It's all just crazy.

I can't even talk about it to family and I don't have any IRL friends now. But I hope my trying to talk about it all openly on this forum will help.




I do sometimes write letters... they were usually angry stuff. I never tried to imagine their response but recently I did, in some imagination spontaneously coming up. That was kindof a first. It was nice but then later it felt too intrusive after a while, them pretending to be overly nice again (beyond normal).



That's what I usually tell myself.

Then I sometimes get into these other, different mindsets as above.....



Yes, I am trying to do that acceptance. Not sure if I am missing anything about it. Maybe it just naturally takes this long? Or maybe longer because I didn't have a lot of people to talk to about it. I've tried to in therapy, I've tried repeatedly, but I don't think it was therapists with the right training or relevant experiences. Or something. That is why I am trying that trauma centre soon. I was also possibly not ready for a long time to talk about it emotionally anyway. I do feel more ready lately. The above is also my attempt to try and talk about the thoughts and emotions too.


Thanks for the kind words. I'll try to think of it that way actually, what the benefits of all this were. Being stronger for it....etc....


Oh well and I want to find out how to leave the pain, lol. Maybe just patience though, yeah. And not pushing down the emotions too much.... I don't even know the right balance there, a balance that would work for me. Am trying to find out.

I've just managed to talk myself out of another quagmire-y train of thought. Back to normal grounding, from all the doubting about these people (specifically the non-romantic one) again. Well so yeah it gets exhausting but at least I notice more now how exhausting and how time consuming all this is. I'm tired of the mines I'm stepping into on the minefield lol

@Alive99,

A suggestion is to educate yourself on abusers and toxic people - learn their traits, their tactics and all the various signs of abuse. Learn about it, and once you've completed that step, then read about and educate yourself on HEALING from abuse. This is another way to release the pain of the past from these people, how they have harmed you, and how to move forward a stronger person.

This is what I am currently doing in my life. I am listening to podcasts about abusers and on YouTube. I am also learning about how to heal from abuse as I go along. I have been in a severely abusive marriage, from which I am currently exiting. It was narcissistic abuse that I suffered.

Education is power. Knowledge is power. Trust me - learn as much as you can, teach yourself and heal yourself.

You do not need to return to these people ever again in any way in order to heal and move forward.

The work is on your shoulders - it IS up to us to get out of the state we are in and find ourselves in.

It takes work, time and effort to educate oneself and to heal and empower oneself - but it's well worth the journey.

I am well on my way to recovery after an abusive marriage, and it's all because of the personal and deep work I am doing.

Thanks! Sorry, I didn't notice your post at first.

I'm trying to do this too, yes. This is what always made me more relaxed, rather than all tense and feeling bad. Whenever I'd read about manipulation, ways of emotional and mental abuse, etc., and seeing how it applied to these relationships. That is when I start relaxing eventually and grounded and back in normal reality. Though I had to do this gradually too because I was not immediately ready to face some of the darkness that was there in these relationships. But by now I've faced a lot of it, and so I'm also noticing how I'm still going back in my memories here and there, to discover things about these relationships from this new understanding I did not have before. It helps. It's again where I can feel relaxed, if it all seems to make sense and more and more things click this way. Sometimes I can even do this before I fall asleep, i.e. these memories drifting up and me having enough of a partial understanding already about those memories, and just further exploring without pressure and waiting for more realisations and insight. If that makes sense....and then I can even fall asleep in the midst of all this (so that is anything but me being too tense). The doubting and the compulsive checking never makes me feel good or relaxed, just more and more tense.

Also today... I realised that I do all the doubting and compulsive checking, when the bad feelings come up, without me even noticing. The way they made me feel bad during the relationships and whenever they attacked me and at the end too, with their last attacks. It's like....if I question and doubt, that means they did nothing bad to me, it means me ignoring the bad state I got into from their manipulations, it means I'm the one who did anything bad, so it's actually really absurd. It's just absurd mental conjecture and never reality when I do the doubting and checking for possible good motives in these people. And when I doubt and check it's also terrible self-doubt I never ever had in my life before this abuse, and it's all really crazy actually (from their crazy-making), and it's me checking if I have the responsibility to try and fix the impossibility and also how to fix it, etc. Because I would not want to keep feeling bad, so I'd think I need to fix things somehow and I just need to figure out how. But yeah that's again just ABSURD because you don't fix things with a manipulative and abusive vampire.

So basically the message I got from them was very bad on a deep level. Like it is, "MAYBE it is what they said...that you are ****, you are the problem, so you have to keep the benefit of the doubt and assume the best instead of them taking responsibility". Does this make sense? This could seem really simple but I don't think I got this before at all, that there was this message from them, let alone get it on an emotional level.

This felt freeing, I will see how freeing... but it definitely was an emotionally very deep realisation.


I tried to read about healing too yeah, that is where I would often get really stuck though. That is what's also progressing so slowly. But it is, I think...just really really slowly. And wanted to know if I'm missing something specifically, or emotionally, which makes recovery so extremely slow. I don't know.



I wish you luck too with recovering from your marriage. And with getting free from it if you are still in the marriage atm.



I totally agree. This is what I've been doing for 3 years, just with a lot of obstacles and getting stuck a lot, I hope it'll be easier for you.

The above deep insight was about the nonromantic one more. I had more bad things coming out about the romantic one this evening after reading something in a book that was a pretty direct trigger. I realised more on what fundamental bad message he "sent" me back then (3 years ago). It was again freeing me some more. And I kinda had a bad day. I almost didn't even get enough sleep waking up too early about the nonromantic one. I did manage to fall asleep again though. And overall I was just kinda low today. But I didn't go hopelessly deep like before, I kept some stability somehow, so that was good... I just felt kinda low but not pulled in deep in the depths of terrible chaos and emotions internally. This is what I've been afraid of, that I'll get pulled in so deep again but I didn't. Maybe this is a change for real.... It's been a week since last time I was pulled in deep. And that's actually a great long time for me, not a record, but if it goes on like this it will be. In 3 years I only had a respite this summer from getting pulled in by the past, and that was only because a big project engaged me (well I did have to recover enough to even be able to take this project) and I just suppressed the emotions anyway, I was instead too easily angry at people, so it wasn't really a real solution, just a temporary break from the past on the surface. So I want to be able to keep going without getting pulled in/back so much. This is why I have this thread.

Your feelings make a lot of sense to me. They injured you deep and it takes as long as it takes to heal.

You mentioned how you try to imagine them apologizing or it playing out differently so you can feel closure. It might be called ruminating. I do this and go over every possibility I can imagine. I think it does help heal combined with having distractions that give you joy.

You said you can’t change am emotional vampire. So, you know to not start up with either of them again, unless it’s possible to be good friends with only one. But, if they are a pair, then I feel for how you lost the both at once. Though, them not being good, healthy, relationships then it’s instead killing two birds with one stone! Good riddance to them!

I don't quite understand this post, but the less you focus on what they have said and the more you focus on your own thoughts and perceptions of what happened, the better off you will be.

Abusers manipulate and lie. They try to alter your perception of reality. You have to stay true to what you think, to what you see, and to what you experience.

An abuser will try to throw you off track and will try to make you think that YOU were at fault somehow for their poor behavior and treatment towards you.

I called the police one night because my abusive husband was yelling at me (again). He then tried to justify his emotional affair that he had after that on the fact that I had called the police.

But there is NO justification for his affair. He KNEW it was the ONE thing he could do that would harm me the very most. And he did it anyways.

So I am not believing his version of what happened, I am not accepting his excuses or his justifications, and I am divorcing him as a result. This is just an example of how an abuser can seriously manipulate and try to distort your sense of reality.

Thanks again. Which part of the post was unclear to you if you don't mind saying?

I do not consciously focus on what they said... these messages seem to have been absorbed subconsciously. That's what makes undoing all this hard.

And yes I do have my own thoughts and perceptions but this thing is subconscious so that gets tricky.

And yeah, you summed that up well about what abusers/toxic people do. It's actually pretty absurd "reasonings" they use - like your husband did it - but in my case it was emotional and personal messages in their "reasonings" and I couldn't consciously deal with it.

And you are very right with divorcing him, if he can't even take responsibility for such a major thing and BLAMING YOU for it!! Wow so yeah, these two toxic vampires did that too.

Thank you for your sympathy, it helps.

With the imagination exercise, I don't do that by default, I'm not that imaginative... Someone else in this thread asked me what I imagine and that's when I did this, to try and access more feelings and thoughts of mine about the whole thing.

They were a pair only as far as they were important two people to me, they were not dating if that's what you meant.

And yeah good riddance lol I want to be there and not turn back from this conclusion of "good riddance to them!".

As for distractions giving me joy...too bad I'm hardly able to do such distractions. It doesn't help.

I did figure out more today too. They both eventually did the final nail in the coffin by attacking my feelings about them actually. My honestly feeling and caring about the relationship/them. So it made me feel very unloved - as a subconscious message.



And I viewed these people as more special to me than others. I was not focused on relationships before. And then they made me feel more involved emotionally. However, they had their own selfish goals with the relationship with me. The guy just wanted to use me emotionally and the girl wanted to use me to get money from me. It just makes it extra sad that I started to open up to such people. (I did not fully open up but it was still more than I should have.) So, they definitely made me feel more unloved than I ever did before. That was a big hit and it's part of why it's so slow for me to recover from this.

Also. They actually were very enmeshed with me on a level but that is not a compliment because 1) enmeshment isn't healthy 2) they were users, not actually caring about me. When I decided not to have the relationships on their own terms only, is when things went truly ****. But they were using me before that too. And I'm not a person who you can easily take advantage of.

And the guy additionally used spiritual teachings to justify his ****. That made it extra bad. Yes, I'm not joking, he actually did that to justify ****. And don't ask me why I didn't get more upset about that originally. I did but not enough apparently. The absurdity and horribleness of it only just hit me fully today.

Yes all these are very negative feelings.... But I just feel I need to face it all and feel truly that it's a mess that I can't even in my wildest dream think of "fixing". Move on fully!!!! Yeah.


If anyone is familiar with the bolded, please let me know. It would be great to be able to talk about it more.


PS: I felt I could write about all this in a more emotional language earlier but by the time I got here to post, I couldn't really anymore. But that's OK

PS2: And writing out all this I can think of positives again. Like the way I opened up to her, it's OK, I can still find other special ways to open up to others in a better relationship.

I guess I didn't understand what you meant by compulsive checking? Checking up on them, or more of a mental process for yourself?

It sounds like you partially accepted their blame towards you, and perhaps that's why you still struggle with it?

Ohhh totally a mental process, yeah, checking if I had some responsibility, benefit of the doubt towards them etc etc.... It's obviously completely at odds with the reality but when I am in this mindset I just don't seem to be in reality. I totally avoid the actual world when I am in this mindset and I don't do things, even important tasks or anything fun/joy.

So it's like inability to fully take in all the horribleness maybe so I can only do it bit by bit maybe



Is this familiar to you at all?



That's the weird thing because consciously I did not accept it but I think they said things over the years that just started to make me unsure and less oriented and it all accumulated eventually.

Or maybe I accepted it because (let's take the nonromantic relationship for the example) I was like supportive of her and thought she's just depressed or something. Things like that.

With the romantic one, they gave me a sob story near the end when I wanted them to be accountable, and I didn't really buy the story consciously but I think I was already in some disoriented haze or fog by then and subconsciously I probably absorbed it somehow. In fact I know I absorbed it because I responded in a nice way to it and then I responded in an even more nice way that was bordering on codependent even though I am not a codependent type. If that makes sense. And consciously I just didn't buy the story because it didn't really make sense, I didn't even process it rationally and I was more like ignoring it. And so the "codependent" thing/response I just totally blurted out, the most "codependent" one I totally blurted out of the blue. I didn't understand myself about that stuff. I still don't.

Also haze/fog: I know abusers create a kind of fog or mental confusion

But for me it was so subtle manipulation too, I'm starting to realise that he was likely using some mirroring technique almost like a "cold read" technique, does that make sense? Like he took whatever I said and modified it and threw it back at me and manipulate me that way.

And it's like, I was in a very upset state but he made it sound like oh maybe he's going to warm up to me again and then he manufactured my feeling "intimate" "open" and then I would respond in this way (and ignoring my actually very upset state, that's so absurd looking back to it!!) and then he would enjoy responding in a way that was going to hurt me in that state (even if it was manufactured it was somehow also real if that makes any sense). And where he started to look like oh he's maybe going to warm up again it was like an absurdly sudden and intense change too so definitely just like a fairy tale

So yeah I don't think I even discovered all of that, like the mirroring thing I only really realised recently rereading some skype talk we had (we did talk IRL too and I can't reread that other than what I happen to remember, but at least I can look at skype talks and texts). And I only really realised it because I ran into someone else who was utilising the same tactics (much later). And I started getting suspicious reviewing their way of communication with me and then I noticed the same technique with the guy from long ago (3 years).

OK so I don't know if you are familiar with manipulation techniques, I'm not very familiar with them unfortunately. This is in part thinking out loud too.


What I'd particularly like to understand is just exactly what feelings he manufactured in me, like, what I called a "codependent thing" but I'd like to be able to pinpoint it better/label it. Because if I can identify it then maybe I can process it and stop feeling it compulsively and in that intrusive way.

Sometimes people can turn codependent within an abusive relationship dynamic, even if they haven't been codependent before.

Abusers are master manipulators -- they will create that fog for you on purpose. They want you to doubt your perception of reality, they want you to doubt yourself and their goal is control and have power over you.

The key is to not let them make you doubt yourself OR your perceptions of reality. If you journal all that they did to you, you will see it all as manipulation, both subtle and overt. It takes having an independent mind and a strong mind to keep your own reality in view and to not let their arguments or perspectives sway you. Abusers' perspectives are ALWAYS skewed.

Yeah, pretty much like that. I was definitely NOT being myself at all.

Yes. I've understood that intellectually a while ago. That this is what was going on. It's just hard to REALLY take it in if that makes sense. I tried this evening and it's like, it felt it was gonna be overwhelming literally my whole body so it's yeah not gonna be easy to go through this (I did back off when I got this perception of it)


I understand all that intellectually on a generic level. It's just really hard to really see what they exactly did even if I described the concrete details or read the texts, skype talks, etc. It only comes to me over time. It's slow like molasses.

If I could just take it in fully or something and see what exactly the manipulation steps were then I would not keep losing my normal sense of reality about all this ??