Trying to move forward

There are so many patterns that align with covert narcissism.

Like being vulnerable and needing support and positivity, unless she had gotten supply from somewhere else. Then she was the one in control and I had better respect and appreciate a strong woman!

But if that is who she is, then what was real over the years?

We have so many inside jokes and shared memories. It rained yesterday, and at one point it downpoured, like one of those insane downpours where it can't rain harder.

My daughter and I ran to the car.

I immediately had a flashback to her mom and I in university running across campus to my truck in the rain when we got caught in a downpour. If we had fallen in a pool we couldn't have been more soaked.

She was so wonderful and happy and genuine, laughing and drenched, with mascara ruined by the rain. I loved her so much in that instant.

Was that real?

Or was that the mask?

This dark hatred... Is that the real her?

Just where my head is at these days. It is actually probably healthier to accept what is and not examine what was too closely. I'm just mourning.

Speaking from my experience with an ex wife who was probably narcissitic and what I read about it, I think both faces were real.

In the beginning of our relationship, my ex wife did have her manipulative side but she was genuinely loving and caring. She was fierce in how she protected me when I had a burn-out and later a depression.
When things first appeared to get better but I eventually relapsed, she turned and became my worst enemy.

My ex wife did not drink etc. but I believe this big shift in attitude is a clear parallel between our stories. You should keep in mind that narcissistic people can be very charming. Things go great as long is you fill in their need. In my opinion, both sides are the real her. But you should also realize that you won't get the old her back.

The way I deal with this, is that I try to cherish the memory of (most of) our first years together. If I would not try this, I would not dare to move on (not that I manage to move on, but I do have the desire).
On the other hand, I have enough damage to make sure I keep a safe distance (we do not have children, which makes things easier).

A person can have a very lovable charming side to them and also have a cold and dark side.

Thanks everyone.

Thanks pliepla, and thanks ArmorPlate. It really helps to hear from people who have gone through this.

Pliepla, I wish I could hit the thanks button a couple of times on that post. It's excellent.

I 100% agree that it's both.

This is JMHO, but I think it's not that a narcissist can't love you, it's just that their love is conditional and transactional. Of course, that isn't genuine love but it's all they've got. But there is good behavior and kindness mixed in.

There's a guy online who is a self aware narc (not sam vaknin). From his videos it seems that narcs are very short sighted. Whatever they say or feel is generally compartmentalized to that moment. So if they scream they hate you one moment and love you the next, they probably actually mean it- in that moment. Problem is that it's toxic to those of us on the other end. They're so unregulated, they are more like children than adults.

I have lots of memories of dh being loving, attentive, and protective, but in retrospect I also see the red flags mixed in of devaluation, ruined holidays and picked fights that made no sense. Me taking blame for things that weren't my fault. You know the drill....

Recently, DD remarked, "it's like the good parts of him used to balance out the bad parts of him. And now they don't.". That's where I've left it. He's changed, not for the better, and it never was what it ideally should have been, but it was still something.

Processing this stuff is hard. It will happen in its own good time

"it's like the good parts of him used to balance out the bad parts of him. And now they don't."

Wow.

Mic drop.

It takes the brain time to accept that that person you remembered and loved and idealized is no longer really there. You only got bread crumbs to get your hopes up and then the negative.

You had been stuck in the discard phase for a while if you sit and really think about it honestly. It did not matter that you not only were the main provider but you also cooked and cleaned and took care of your children and even did the laundry. That just made her resent you even more and get jealous even more.

Yet in her twisted mind that her friends encourage is this is all the MANS fault. All women are victims which is not true and too broad brushed black and white thinking.

From what you have shared the difference between you and your wife is that you are loyal and you really care about the welfare of others. You thought your wife was capable of that as well, she is not.

When your wife chose to pass a line of cars and cut them off the way she did, that’s a reflection of who she is in that she is entitled and doesn’t have to care. Your wife uses the excuse of doing this because it’s what men do. This is wrong, instead this is what selfish narcissistic people do male or female. This is also shown in how she looks for ways to extort money and getting you to do all the things she just doesn’t want to do. This is who she is and how she will behave in any relationship.

The entitlement is becoming more and more apparent, such as buying herself gift cards and prepaid Visas hidden in the grocery and gas expenses, so that she could treat herself without anyone knowing, while the rest of us went without.

I'm in a lot of pain today. This is as bad as it was in January when we first separated.

This is unreal.... This is the complete loss of someone who was my world for 25+ years. This is financial distress and becoming a single parent, and the complete mind-F that goes along with recuperating from all this, and helping the kids feel worth and move ahead.

And you're supposed to just.... Go to work, make meals, clean the house, and act normal with everyone you interact with.

I swear, today, if someone took my heart out of my chest and squeezed it in their fist in front of me, it couldn't hurt any worse than it does right now.

And I still want her. It's years of being denied and being conditioned to try harder, and I still want her.

Holy moley this is painful today.

(((RD))) you will have these painful days, it is part of the grieving and learning how to come to terms with the truth of just how cold someone we wanted to love can be. It’s hard for a caring honest genuine person to wrap their mind around because it simply not anything they would ever do themselves.

For the last years of my parents lives my sister took full advantage of their trust and mental decline. My sister extorted thousands of dollars and took valuable items and she also used my mothers credit card to purchase money for herself. I could go on and on with all the awful things she did and right to very end of settling the estate through probate.

This is someone I loved and cared about my entire life. When I read about narcissists it’s like I am reading all about her. At times I thought I was going crazy. This can’t be, how can someone be this bad?

These bad days are hard, have experienced it myself. Please be patient and don’t fall into blaming yourself. Don’t feed into the anger or react because this is what let’s them know they have power over you. It’s just a sick twisted mind. The best way to go forward is no contact.

I am at the point where I am finally finished and have no interest in having any contact and I don’t want to know anything about her. I don’t wish bad or want to
engage in any negative patterns. I basically remain deeply disappointed and disgusted.

It takes time to process so be patient.

(((RD)))

What Open Eyes said.

In some ways, it's almost like next level grief. Not just losing someone you love, but so many more things on so many different levels. So many different facets. It is a total mind F.

How else should you feel but exactly as you do? Feel it, acknowledge it, give yourself some gentleness for what you've been through. Processing sucks, but it's also the only way to heal.

It's okay to have a day when you're not 100%. Maybe a day where you let some things at home slip. You'll be able to pick up the slack tomorrow or the next day. BTDT.

Well, today feels better.

I got up this morning and felt like sinking into an isolated depression. I didn't want to go to work. I bribed myself by agreeing to buy myself a coffee on the drive in to work.

Once I had a coffee in hand, I called a good friend who is building a house. He's a good, good man, and I respect him. He is beyond swamped this week. So, my daughter and I will go and help him with vapor barrier and clean up before the drywallers come on Monday.

I'm strong and healthy. I have good kids. I have people in my life who love me. I have options for work. I have you guys. YOU GUYS have done more for me than counselling has done.

I'd invite you all to my house for supper if I could. I make a very good chili.

Glad to learn you were able to work out of the emotional funk this morning. Yes! You have things to be thankful and positive about.

I saw a cute video of a very little boy trying to tell his father that his mommy left for work and did not kiss him goodbye. He could not find all the words so he improvised by imitating a kiss and shaking his head no and then stretching out his arms and hands motioning his confused state.

His father carefully listened helping his son find the words and validating the feeling he was left with. Someone was there to listen and help with the words and validate.

It’s not wrong to get confused.
It’s not wrong to feel bad
It’s not wrong to need help to find the words
It’s not wrong to need validation
We don’t always “just know”.
It doesn’t mean we have failed.

I know that video!

He's this adorable little guy, under 3 years old I'd say, with his baby brother. He has words, but can't form sentences yet. He was explaining his "outrage" that mama left for work without giving anyone a kiss goodbye.

Found it!



Oh Man!

Unfortunately, males tend to be raised to believe they are not supposed to have or show emotions. The only emotion that is permitted is anger or silence. That’s not right because men are only human and deserve to be taught about different emotions and that it’s ok to feel emotions.

DBT is a therapy that is designed to help patients learn about different feelings and how to work through them. This would be good for your oldest who tends to experience mostly anger. It’s so important to learn about the different emotions for everyone. That way a person is not left being like that little 3 year old not having the words for his feeling and confusion as to why his mommy forgot to kiss him goodbye.

YES!!! That’s the video I am talking about.

I have not figured out how to copy those videos so I can post them here.

Yet, that is where you and your children are needing help putting the dysfunction into language. Sadly that happens a lot.

You cannot save her. The only person who can save her is herself. You cannot save her. All you will do is sacrifice yourself and your children, but it will not save her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes YES!!! That’s the video I am talking about. I have not figured out how to copy those videos so I can post them here. Yet, that is where you and your children are needing help putting the dysfunction into language. Sadly that happens a lot.

Just a note here from personal experience....putting the dysfunction into language is almost impossible if you are surrounded by the dysfunction because that makes one part of it. Seeing the picture clearly & understanding it takes getting out of it. That saying "can't see the forest for the trees" applies to living in in a dysfunctional relationship too.

Yeah, I do want to "save" her. I also want my kids to be validated by her. I want her to see me as a good person and value me. I want to be loved by her.

Still through all this, I can see good in her, and I can see things that I have always wanted in my life from her.

Those feelings were unique to her. I'm almost 50.... This is the only person I've ever been in love with, or wished for. I've never experienced "the one who got away".

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer Yeah, I do want to "save" her. I also want my kids to be validated by her. I want her to see me as a good person and value me. I want to be loved by her. Still through all this, I can see good in her, and I can see things that I have always wanted in my life from her. Those feelings were unique to her. I'm almost 50.... This is the only person I've ever been in love with, or wished for. I've never experienced "the one who got away".

Neither had I but at 54 (& before) I realized he was destroying me in so many ways mentally & financially. I had enough after 33 years & at 54 I walked out & moved 2100 miles away (my daughter was already grown & had moved out of state too. I had never even lived on my own before that.

16 Years later I have never been so happy to have left in my life. He would have ended up totally destroying me. Just don't be unwise letting emotions control you. Make sure you include logic into your decision making or your kids will not see it as wisdom you are basing your decision making on

What you see as a devoted love and rescuing is not what she sees at all

What she sees is an escape and a desire to be free and to continue having you pay as much as she can get.

That is the cold hard reality.

That's a tough place to be

Those are all valid feelings, it's hard to know what to say.

Maybe it's okay to feel strongly about someone, but also recognize that they aren't good for you. And then choose yourself despite the pain.

I don't know. My heart goes out to you.

Well these feelings are “unique” to her because you’ve been married a long time and not because she is so unique herself.

There are ton of wonderful women in this world whom you could love and be happy with.

Intensity of your longing for this woman isn’t due to her being so spectacular but rather her being unavailable. That’s how people feel when they pursue dysfunctional unavailable partners: like it’s unique and so intense. It’s not intense because they are wonderful partners. Not at all. You pursued this unavailable woman in your marriage and now when it’s over, you still desire this unavailable woman. In fact worse she treats you, more you want her.

I know you said you can’t afford therapy or don’t think it’s useful but there is a reason your longing for her is so intense. It’s a common feeling of pursuing unavailable partners. It’s not a sign of them being your soul mates or other romantic movies type of things.

You cannot change her, rescue her or save her or make her into someone she’s not. Longer you spend on pursuing (either literally or in your mind) this unavailable woman longer you’ll need to heal from it. And meeting someone healthy (eventually at some point in your life) might be complicated as you would find available women boring as you won’t need to pursue them.

There’s something good in almost everyone. In the context of your situation it’s irrelevant. Not only she’s not good fit for you but she’s not interested in staying with you. So dreaming of her coming back or changing her ways takes away from what’s real. The thing you want from her isn’t real because it’s not attainable

You mentioned several times that she is very gorgeous and it’s a part of your longing. Well it’s valid as lots of men are very into looks. I can ensure you that there are many absolutely stunning women out there.

I know you said you aren’t interested in actually divorcing this woman for number of reasons. I get it. But longer you stay in this limbo, more damage it’s causing for all parties involved.

But this IS the one who got away. Are you saying you have never experienced loss or failure, that those feelings are all on her?

I remember getting a major car door ding before age 21, or how it felt the first time i got my ears pierced, around the same age. Sounds a bit silly now, but those were pretty strong feelings of loss back then.

So... you never lose at board games? Do you tell yourself you are letting your kids win?

You guys are all correct.

I know that, so I keep fighting my emotions and urges.

I likened being married to her to living beside a bakery and being gluten free.

At some point you have to quit smelling the bread.

As for unrequited love, this is it. I had other relationships before her but I ended them. Did you ever hear the saying, you don't lose if you don't stop trying?

Well, with her I never stopped trying.

Confronting this loss is very hard. I really long for unique interactions I had with her, inside jokes, whatever.

It's just hard.

I booked a counseling session next week.