Dating After Abuse and Dealing With Life Changes

Ooh, that might be a good topic for a thread - how do you define love, or falling in love? I would have said something more along the lines of admiration of character.

That would be a good topic. I guess I define it by how I feel around the person and without.

That’s a great topic.

I personally don’t define love by just how I feel around people because it’s often infatuation/lust/butterflies/bodily response to familiar. I felt all kind of things around people whom I didn’t even know well. I kind of like “admiration of character” in combination with how I feel around them. I think for really loving someone you’d need to really know them all in addition to other stuff

Of course it’s different with other “loves” not romantic like family etc Those are just there. Natural way

Cool topic.

I’ve had to read up on things for my concerns like Love Addiction. I learned those butterflies in the stomach are mistaken for love, but it’s really that primal fear of rejection from a (potentially) unavailable person.

I do have fear of rejection, which is getting triggered right now. I wrote him one last text this morning saying that I only felt not at peace about it all in the moment, but that it's all good and no worries..... I definitely have rejection/abandonment fears.

I had a therapist who worked with me on recognizing the signs of attraction for wrong people. She said that our bodies respond to familiar.

It’s subconscious response because that’s what we know: unhealthy attachment or unavailable partners or even abusive partners or con men we gravitate towards. It’s nothing to do with love. In fact if we tend to gravitate towards wrong people, the strongest chemistry and attraction we’d feel for exactly those wrong people simply because that’s what our bodies respond to.

Also butterflies are often sign of anxiety around wrong people rather than actual love

She talked about focusing on human qualities of potential partners and general compatibility. Of course chemistry is important but if we tend to choose wrong partners, feeling of chemistry could be very misleading

HH, this guy was screaming ‘unavailable for a commitment’.

He was also very obvious about it and direct, which is commendable. He wasn’t sneaky. And that’s the thing: people always reveal themselves early on, we just have to pay attention. And when people show us who they are, believe them. But we often don’t believe it or deny it because we are too excited.

And… he hasn’t replied. He is not what’s familiar to me. He is someone who I thought was special and different.

He’s a nice guy and is different than others. Just unavailable, and that’s what familiar. Unavailable comes in many forms: not ready for relationship, not a stable life style, drugs or other substances on a frequent basis, workaholic, too preoccupied with something, emotionally unavailable, not financially stable etc etc All of those are examples of “unavailable” but they aren’t the same at all and could be absolutely great people. Just unavailable for serious long term relationships

I haven't always had toxic or unhealthy relationships. Several of my earlier relationships were good ones. It's mainly been in recent years that I've had toxic/abusive partners.

Even in breaking up, he doesn't want to give me what I seek. I'm not sure exactly what I hoped he would say in reply to my last texts, but I hoped he would at least reply with something.

How art thou unavailable? Let me count the ways…

Seeking “unavailable” people is a theme. If you really think about all your past relationships, you may see it appear, but differently nearly every time.

I am not saying you had unhealthy or toxic relationships. Unavailable doesn’t mean toxic.

I once dated a wonderful kind hearted man, upstanding citizen, long distance-real long distance . We both had teenage kids at home, and his was in a very complicated custody arrangement. We had to navigate when and how to see each other and how often, drives and flights were complicated, and then we realized we can’t ever move until kids reach adult hoods due to custody arrangements. He certainly could not move. I could but it was very. complicated. We ended up sitting down and we concluded that we can’t go on because of custody and kids. We had to make a decision. There’s nothing toxic or unhealthy about him or me.

But he was unavailable.

So it’s simple as that. Long distance and kids could make one unavailable

I do not have an entire history of dating or seeking out unavailable men. I have had the full gamut of different types of relationships, and I have had MANY, MANY relationships at this point in my life. I have had good, healthy, stable, loving, wonderful relationships with many available men... I have been with a few narcissists and a few abusers... those were toxic and unhealthy for me. This last guy is perhaps the very first man I have dated who says he is not ready for a real relationship. That to me is unavailable.

He might be the first guy to be very direct and verbal about bring unavailable.

Others might not be as direct but they weren’t available for marriage or any other mature relationship. .

Soon to be ex was stoned or otherwise drugged up often including his own wedding- that’s very much not being emotionally available , you have to be sober to be available, first example of emotional unavailability is substance abuse. Then had no place to live, no credit, no financial stability-not financially available for marriage, heck he didn’t even pay for his own wedding or honeymoon- not available or ready for marriage or serious commitment.

A guy you were engaged before had no job no income and no place to live and on drugs-that’s certainly not available for commitment and certainly not marriage etc

The point is that they are all unavailable for marriage and long term commitment. Just in a different way

This last guy was different because he was not conning you or trying to manipulate or get something out of you. He was direct about not being available. Very few people are. So I give him kudos.

But just because others weren’t direct about their unavailability it doesn’t mean they were available. You just had to dig deeper with them to see what’s up with them.

I've learned my lesson with abusers, narcs, & drug addicts.

And I learned a lesson with this last one, which is to feel them out far sooner about what they want. I was casual at first and just going with the flow of things given my divorce. Then as things evolved and as time went on, I wanted more. I know to ask upfront what someone is seeking, which I hadn't done this go around.

The only truly available man I’ve ever been with is my husband. And I am 57, met him at 49. No other men were truly suitable for life long healthy relationship. It doesn’t mean they were toxic or awful or didn’t want a relationship. But they still aren’t available in some ways. There is some literature out there on availability.

Most of it stems from upbringing. It’s like you could have excellent and not neglectful parents yet they might be unavailable in some ways.

My ex husband resigned from his job. I saw his latest email to me just now, which he sent yesterday. Yes, I went looking because I had a feeling that I would hear from him, and I did.

He says he is going much further downhill and is severely depressed. He also had seen on Facebook pics of me smiling and happy and that I am holding a workshop, which he erroneously called a "lecture". It's not a lecture! It's an interactive, experiential workshop, get it right.

I keep saying to myself, he's not my problem anymore... and I skip along my merry little way.

Why would he resign? Such strange course of action. Who just quits jobs?

He says he wasn't performing and was going downhill. He has his mom's inheritance to live off of. This is exactly what Jay had done.. he quit his job after 20 yrs of employment with the same employer and has his father's inheritance money to live off of. People get desperate when they are miserable and may take more drastic measures to remedy it. Sometimes, quitting IS an option and the best option ahead. My ex can easily get another job and so can Jay, given his experience. My ex has 26 or 27 years in the automotive industry. Finding a job in that in that industry is easy... same with in property management, Jay's field. He can get a job too, if he chooses. To each their own... it's not ours to judge…. I’ve quit 4 jobs without having a other lined up, and always landed on my feet again.

I am not judging, I don’t know these people, I am just expressing my opinion that I find it extremely strange-they give up health insurance too?. It’s possible he was forced to resign if he wasn’t performing. Oh so Jay wasn’t working because he had inheritance. Maybe he inherited a ton.

Your ex wouldn’t last long with no income and money will be gone quickly as it’s not much at all and he’s not savvy. It’s possible that he’s milking for sympathy. Reminds me of ex who was also going “downhill” because I left- probably increased alcohol consumption- and then was “sick and dying”-trying to gain my sympathy and hoping I’ll come back to save him

As long as he’s not asking you for money, it’s his problem. But he likely will ask. At some point

Smh

Jay inherited about 100K or maybe 140K. My ex has more than that, I do believe.

Yes, my ex is milking for sympathy. How he thinks he can go to me, when I told him he had abused me and I broke up with him over that, is beyond me. It's probably because I slept with him twice that he thinks he has an "in". Although, he did say he doesn't expect me to reply to his latest email.

I got up at 3:30 am. My sleep schedule is SO off these days.... 3, 4, 5 am wake ups.... UGH. And I haven't gotten my period in about 2 months. I am peri-menopausal and it's driving me nuts lately.

So, I woke up thinking about Jay this morning, and about how he never replied to my last texts.

I think it's rude to not reply at all, especially given what I was saying to him, ie, at first that I wasn't at peace over it and that I was falling in love with him, and then the next day telling him, no worries, it's all good, that's only how I felt in that moment.... he could have at least replied to my very last text and said, "Ok, good, I am glad" or something along those lines. I feel it was disrespectful to not say a single word to me.

He did tell me not too long ago that sometimes he's not the nicest person. That raised a red flag for me... I hadn't really yet experienced it, although he did make a couple of mean comments to me on one of our longer drives together, or comments that could be interpreted as mean. So, maybe I have seen this side of him, and also just recently by not replying to me.

In hindsight, I don't think he is the best fit for me, and I am glad that it ended now.

He is a bit of a drifter in life at the moment. He could lose his home any time now.. the owners want to rehab his current home, which he is renting short-term, and they could tell him in a few months time that he has to leave. Then where does he go? He quit his full-time property management job a year ago, and is still doing odd jobs like mowing lawns and driving puppies to their new owners to make ends meet.

He also says he is a loner and would prefer to live isolated in the woods. When he visited my home, he told me he could never live where I live, which is much more like living in a small, bustling city. I live in a burb of the city. I love where I live and cannot imagine living isolated in the woods as an adult or by choice. I grew up an an isolated woodsy area and I hated it... we were 45 mins from the city and it sucked as a kid and teenager. As an adult, I wouldn't like it either. I need culture, people, and nightlife nearby.

I guess I was a bit tunnel visioned about the fact that he loves the same outdoor activities I love and the same music, which we're both passionate about. He is also a very good kisser, and I thought he seemed nice, gentlemanly-like, and gentle at first. I zeroed in on just a few qualities I liked and wanted to run with it.

But there are some pretty big differences between us that probably would drive us apart, even if he were up for a commitment. He believes CNN is "fake news" and that Trump is great. I watch CNN every morning, and I cannot stand Trump's personality. I don't know his politics, and I don't claim to know - I am more apolitical and don't follow that closely. But I still cannot stand the orange man and the way he conducts himself in this world or with other people. And I don't believe that his claims to the 2020 presidency & election are legit.

And the loner part? I can be very independent, but I am no loner. I am very sociable and need and want social interaction. He can do without,

I felt I could relate to Jay because I too am in an "in between jobs" place in my life. But Jay appears to truly be drifting, whereas I aim to either get a job OR start a business, or both. I have goals, and I am about to start a second certification course. He just kind of randomly throws out there that he would love to move to the Caribbean to be a boat captain. But, is he pursuing that? No.

And what about his son? How is he possibly OK with living far away in another state from his own son, and not being able to see his son on a frequent and regular basis, when his son is only 11-12 years old?!?

And then there's also the fact that Jay leaked out to me more recently that his ex has him blocked on Facebook and refuses to get on the phone with him. She will only text with Jay. Red flags. What's HER side of the story, I wonder? I asked him WHY she wanted a divorce, and he never gave an answer. So, WHY does she STILL have him blocked, and why does she refuse to get on the phone with Jay?

And, lastly, when I FIRST told Jay I had been abused by my ex, you know what his initial response was??? How did you provoke him? And what did YOU do to cause his behaviors? So, he was victim blaming me, thinking that I somehow provoked him and deserved it! Another RED FLAG, and maybe even the biggest of all. But there's lots of red flags here.

I guess I was truly on the rebound, and didn't even really realize it. I guess I wanted to replace a partner I had lost and fill the missing void. And only now am I seeing this.... well, then Jay likely did me a big favor...

And, I've learned a lot through this one relationship encounter. Don't just look at a few qualities that you like and run with it... evaluate the WHOLE person... and, those red flags, well, there were plenty of them... he also "runs away" when things get complicated? Yet, another red flag... life is complicated! I think he's an escapist and runs away from life 's realities altogether.

You deserve someone much better, Hope

I think so... thanks, @willowtigger!