Divorcing a disordered person

Hi,

I would like to voice something, and I could use some insight.

There was money allocated for the kids in an account that we both had access to. She withdrew that money back in May.

In June, she sent me her health insurance card. The card provides reimbursement coverage for most services; you pay up front, and then insurance reimburses you.

I asked repeatedly, over email, how this money would ever reach me, as it would be reimbursed to her bank account. No reply.

Friday, she re-sends the insurance card over email, with her lawyer attached. She tells me the steps to submit something for payment, that I have to call the 1-800 number for assistance, that she had to do the same for my health card for stuff that was not covered "up front", and that she'd provided me all this information back in June.

What it felt like was..... "See? I know you're an idiot and can't figure out how this works. I had to figure it out and I did by calling the 1-800 number. You'll have to do the same."

The thing is.... That was never the issue! The issue was, "Will you assure me that you will return these expenses to me, especially based on the fact that you just took a bunch of money earmarked for kid expenses.?"

What I don't like is how immediately angry I got.

We will be in face-to-face negotiations in March. She'll do these little things, I'm sure. The parsley sprinkling of truth. I will immediately flood with anger.

I also expect she will either bring her BFF, who is absolutely poisonous to the meeting, or a boyfriend.

I don't think I can grey-rock my way through this one yet. I have two months to prepare myself.

What can I do?

RDMercer

((((RD))))

She just loves playing the game, doesn't she? It's not communication, it's not working out a problem, it's baiting and fishing for problems and drama

It's not always a popular viewpoint, but anger is your friend. Your friend that tells you a truth you don't like. Sit with the feeling, make friends with it, ask it what it's there to tell you. Were you feeling manipulated, belittled, demeaned with the lawyer as a witness, pissed at the games with no solution, sick of the intentional bad communication? Other things? I'd feel all those things and more. Any normal person would.

Anger is not aggression, rage, bullying, etc. Anger is a feeling, not an action, so it has to be dealt with

Here's one way I learned to deal with anger towards H a little more effectively. Maybe you can get something out of it: At one point a few years ago, he was baiting and baiting and baiting until I finally blew up. We're just talking about frustration and yelling- things finally coming to the surface after months and years of picking and prodding- it's called reactive abuse and everyone has a limit. Afterwards, he looked like he got an awesome dopamine hit or something. He was so happy and I realized he'd gotten exactly what he wanted. My negative reaction was the currency he was seeking. Once I realized just how badly he wanted the reaction, and the lengths he was willing to go to get it, it made it so much easier to not give it to him. It's the behavior of a sick person. They want and need your anger. There's nothing for the healthier party to gain from it.

So, remember she wants to knock you off balance, she wants to get in your head.

In the Sonic the Hedgehog movie there's a reference to the villain being obsessed with Sonic and how scary that is. Sonic's response is almost laughter and he says, "Are you kidding? I live in that guy's head rent free!" Don't let her live in your head rent free.

As for the negotiations, here's a little brain hack that comes to mind. Maybe it would work for you. Find some kind of object you can carry with you in your pocket. Any small item will do. Any time you start to feel that anger, focus on the object, put your hand on it, worry it if you need to. It just gives you something else to focus on in the moment. Heck, you could use a five dollar bill and then donate it to a good cause after the fact. The idea is to pull yourself out of the reactive part of your head and back into the present. Give yourself permission to be mad as heck after the fact, and you can always bring that back here. Just get through the "meetings" with as much detachment as possible.

Thank you ArmorPlate108.

I'm going to start practicing this. I'll carry something with me, something on my key ring because it's always in my pocket.

I'll do the focused grounded thing when she gets in my head.

That little email from her was the perfect example of the "See.... I've been completely reasonable, and he's just so reactive," that she wanted to produce.

The thing is, right now, I'm not good at keeping it together. When I finally began calling out each little manipulation in our final months together, I know I gave her the ammunition and "fix" she was looking for.

I'm so, so on edge when I interact with her.

That also makes my thinking cloudy., which works to her favor.

Ok, first if the money you had set aside for your children was not labeled as such and you both had access to it there is not much you can do about the fact that your wife withdrew these funds for herself. Lesson learned where you must now know your wife WILL take anything she can get access to. Your wife has shown she doesn’t respect or care about boundaries.so if that money was not labeled that it belonged to your children then there isn’t anything you can do about your wife taking it.

With this insurance set up, you should run it by your lawyer before paying any money out of your pocket for HER expenses. Just because her lawyers name is attached doesn’t mean you have to pay those expenses.

Actually that information should be sent to your lawyer. I know you get charged for that but it sends a message to both your wife and her lawyer that you will not be baited or bullied.

Anger is not a bad emotion and it’s good that you are venting it here instead of at your wife. Anger in your case is your self love being compromised. It’s ok to feel it and vent it away from the toxic person who wants you to react to empower themselves.

Your wife is the biggest loser here, she already lost all respect from you and your children. None of you wanted to be around her over the holidays. All of you have been noticing how much calmer and safer it is with her gone from the home. That’s how it is when you remove an alcoholic/addict that has mood swings and unpredictable behaviors that are very narcissistic from your environment.

The word you used is “calm”. It’s that same stress and discomfort to the nervous system that hides under the bed. Yes! Cut the legs off and finally sleep in comfort.

Follow lawyers guidelines. Do not say or do anything without his approval. You might want to address thafsgd took money out without discussing it with you

Why do you have to be face-to-face with her? What would you think of allowing the lawyers to negotiate?

I'm sorry, I don't want to get into it, but absolutely YES there was money that was set aside each month for special expenses for one of the kids. It was funded through a government program. My wife took it, and re routed the future payments to herself.

It's been reported through the lawyers and it has to be paid back.

Her health insurance works through reimbursement; you pay, present the receipt, and insurance reimburses you. She has the kids covered on her insurance. But, the reimbursement would go to her account. That was always the issue... If I used her health insurance, she would receive the reimbursement, not me. The question was always, "How can I get the insurance reimbursement?"

The thing is, she is playing it dumb and innocent, as if the question is that I don't know how to submit a claim. "NO. YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE."
The question is, "Will you direct the insurance reimbursement back to me, and if so, how?"

When you live with someone who exhibits different behaviors some of which are toxic it has an effect on your nervous system. Without realizing it a person can begin developing unhealthy patterns in themselves as a way of reducing this constant disruption experienced in the nervous system.

From what you shared you and your children pretty much lived in a hyper vigilant state. You described just hoping for the two or three days when your wife was nice and things felt positive. This is known as bread crumbing and manipulation and has nothing to do with love, care, or respect.
If you remember your wife would often conclude these episodes with being cold and letting you know you were slated to her discarding you.

You are no longer part of her sick game, you have been learning to see the reality of who your wife really is. The fact that you experience anger is normal and shows you are gaining in seeing the toxic reality for what it really is and who she really is as a person

You are at a bit of an awkward stage in that you feel anger, you don’t want to act out in unhealthy ways from that anger. Your wife will continue to be resentful and entitled and look for ways to get you upset. You are gaining in your ability to see this. I think what you are not sure of at this point is how to react. You don’t have to respond, just refer to your lawyer. Lawyers see this toxic stuff all the time.

Sad that when YOU claim the reimbursement that you can't also direct where the reimbursement goes to especially in the case of in process divorce. Might call the insurance company directly & ask. Otherwise an account through the lawyers or neutral party needs to be specified & then they pay it out. Same for the fund for your kid. Lawyers should know how to set these things up for during the divorce procedings

Just a note about the anger....I know in my case my anger always came from frustration.....usually from trying to deal with an illogical parent or trying to deal with an incompetent husband. That feeling of anger still rises when his incompetence is still effecting me 5 years after the divorce. Only reason I deal with it ok is because there is 2100 miles distance & I don't have to deal with him daily.....but it still comes up & I just, in anger, wonder how he could be SO STUPID & have the high IQ he always bragged about. They I just say my thanksgiving that he is no longer in my life on a daily basis & can't screw up my finances any more than he has that is costing my legal fees to try & fix

OMG!

I laughed out loud at the description of incompetence and high I.Q. 😆. Boy, that's familiar.

Yes, accounts and payments are all looked after now.

It just comes down to her slight manipulation of the truth in the email today; trying to make it look like I didn't know how to submit receipts for remittance, when it's actually me asking since June, "What account is it linked to and how can I get my money back?"

And then me flooding with anger about her spin on my supposed incompetence.

RDM

I hope everything works out for you, RDM

Open Eyes is on to something... there is a stage to the anger. It seems like you're in a place where what you're processing is, unfortunately, intersecting with having to deal with her through the court system. Not easy.

I've also learned to take several slow breaths before responding or reacting to anything (even if no one else is around). Focusing for just a moment on breathing/processing the immediate feeling/information coming at you, can help deescalate it and put you back into feeling more in control. Sometimes I'll take a few breaths, and realize that the initial impulse to even respond, is already gone.

Quote:

I think what you are not sure of at this point is how to react.

Just from my own experience, after years of responding in anger it wasn't about not being sure how to react, it was more of a conditioned response by that point. Had to work on breaking the conditioned response while figuring out what a better reaction might be

Not sure if you are on TikTok, but someone who went through a nasty divorce and custody battle shared old texts with her ex, who was instructed to only communicate via email. She said she started responding to all messages like she's from HR, and not only was it hilarious, her ex increasingly got frustrated and said very stupid things.

I also do this when clients get pissy about paying on time. When they start getting passive aggressive and not answering the question, I'll say something like "Please confirm your intent is to not pay your bill. Thank you."

Believe it or not, that usually gets a change in tone really quick and a direct response to pay right away.

With your ex, when she sends you these responses, I would roll my eyes (you have to expect her to respond with this passive aggressive bureaucracy type responses) and say "Please confirm whether you do or do not intend to send the reimbursement to me once it is posted to your account." or "Please confirm the means by which you will send the reimbursement once it posts."

Maybe you have tried that, but they avoid the question and you just keep restating it, ignoring all the other crap. Drives them crazy, and gets plenty of good evidence as to their mischief.

Ok, it’s good to learn that your wife has to return the funds she took from the account that was set up for your daughter/children.

It is my understanding that the judge ordered that your wife pay child support as the children are living with you and you incurred costs from that.

I think with this medical/insurance challenge you could suggest that your wife have a credit card on file so any medical costs can go on that and reimbursements just go to paying that off which would leave you out of the entire issue of funds being reembursed.

Preparing for this upcoming hearing in March should be about addressing anything that might come up that needs to be financially resolved. So far the court/judge is expecting your wife to work and cover her own expenses and contribute to child support.

This challenge with the insurance coming up now gives you a chance to sort it out so you are prepared to address it in the hearing. I think the credit card on file can prevent conflict.

From what you have shared your lawyer is trying to tell you that the judge will look at the welfare of your children and given that your children are living at home with you and that you are working hard to maintain your home and have been paying most of the bills, the court is not going to allow your wife to change that.

In many ways you have already won because your wife chose to leave the home and she has been seeing other people and the children have expressed not feeling safe with her because of her abuse of alcohol. You don’t engage in any of these acts and your children feel safe with you. A judge will see that.

Your focus needs to stay on maintaining a safe home environment for your children and maintaining the finances to do so.

I agree, but it's just to get to the head space where I can think quickly, clearly, and not be reactive to her twists on the truth.

Well, do any of her messages actually require an instant response? Seems like they don't. You could allow yourself to take space and actually NOT allow yourself to respond until 24 hours have passed. (Or 23.5 if you have to respond under 24 hours, lol.)

Great advice, Seesaw.

The pausing/breathing thing I do is just stalling for my own brain sake. The disordered people I've been involved with tend to have kept things unbalanced with a sense of pushing and urgency. By stopping for a moment, it allows time to actually think about what was said, rather than responding to an old script out of habit. The pause might also give you a little more sense of control over the situation, since it gives you some control of the pace.

And I agree wholeheartedly with seesaw's other post about staying on topic. Disordered people are so good at shifting focus that they seem to do it compulsively, and even when it's unnecessary. Maybe it could help to think of or even write down, a mission statement when it comes to what needs to be accomplished in regards to a given topic or time frame? Then stay on target. Don't get down in the weeds. If she tries to shift the topic, you bring it right back to the one that matters. This might take a little practice, but it can help you feel like you're in the driver's seat, and could also remove some of that pointless white noise that may be keeping you feeling cloudy and off balance around her.

Oh, and make sure you get enough rest. An exhausted mind is one that isn't fast or clear.

You guys are right.

This goes back to (1) my inherent nature to want to help, fix, support like a good little co-dependent, (2) hoping for the carrot on the stick reward of some kind of positive interaction, and (3) trying to look after things quickly so they don't escalate.

There's an issue with her car being licensed to her solely. I did the paperwork for it in March to take my name of the registration. She didn't submit it. Then I had to do it again in September, because the DMV wouldn't recognize signatures dated six months ago. She still didn't submit it.

Now she's wrecked the car, and she needs it done by tomorrow or she can't get insurance coverage. And I'm feeling rushed, feeling empathy, and feeling like I should help.

Wow..... I'm really good at accepting her disorder, aren't I.

RDM

This is a good opportunity to practice being not so codependent. Do it when it's convenient for you. Don't go out of your way for her sake. You might feel anxiety about doing that, but that's okay. It'll get easier over time.

If you can do it today and feel motivated, do it. If you are busy and can't get it done until next week, then she's just going to have to live with that. She's a grown up, she can start acting like it, including accepting consequences of her actions and inactions. It's not like you haven't given her the chance.

Don't postpone out of spite though- that will only bother you and make her more of a victim.

Your wife doesn’t respect you. Instead she is lazy and procrastinates and expects you to inconvenience yourself to get things fixed or done. Your wife is a user that only thinks of herself. Very selfish entitled person.

You don’t have to be mean, but you can set up boundaries. She is used to stepping all over and ignoring your boundaries.

When someone has a selfish entitled character there is nothing you can do to change that.

I have helped people and spent time on them only to end up being treated badly like they were doing me a favor by letting me engage and help them. They blow up at me out of no where in a selfish rage. This only shows me their sense of entitlement and that I had wasted my time. These are the people to walk away from because all they wanted was a patsy.

There are people who have patsy lists. They are users, don’t allow yourself to be on someone’s patsy list. You are never really respected or appreciated.

Don't allow yourself to be on someone's patsy list...

I like that one.

And breathing and taking 24 hours is a good practice too.

Thank you all

RDM