[gordian_knot]

I really need some practical advice, and I hope someone can give me some insight, because I'm fresh out of ideas and I feel like a worn-out, balding tire that's ready for a blowout. I cant continue like this. Here's what's going on:
<ul type="square">[*]My wife has been depressed for many years, and it’s been much worse since she had post-partum psychosis in 2001-2002 (hallucinations, delusions, self-harm, the works), which resulted in a one-month psychiatric hospitalization. The psychosis is gone, but her severe depression remains[*] She had a sudden personality change in November 2007, after which she has almost completely cut herself off from everyone, including me and our two kids. She tells me that she doesn't know if she's in love with me anymore. [*] She flatly refuses to talk to me about our situation. When I try, she gets furious with me and pulls further away[*] She told me she wanted a separation, and that she wanted to leave the kids and me and just be by herself. But I believe she doesn’t think she can make it on her own, so instead she wanders around the house like a ghost, avoiding the kids and me completely and hiding away in the computer room for nearly every waking hour[*]She’s chatting on the Internet 8-14 hours per day, going to bed between 2 and 6 AM. Online, she’s talking to people and telling half-truths about how I drove her into this situation. And she’s having online affairs. She has declared her love for her British Facebook-hookup guy, has frequent cyber-sex with him, and she keeps making plans to meet up with him in person. He tells her he may leave his girlfriend and move here so they can be together.[*]She recently started seeing a therapist for the first time but she won’t take any antidepressant medication[*]I do all the housework, cooking and parenting, plus I have a full time job. I have been as supportive as I can, trying not to pressure or push her, and trying to show her that I’m here for her and I'm always willing to help, because I thought that was the best thing to do[*]But I feel utterly used and alone, and I feel like a cuckold and a fool for allowing this to continue. Every day there's a lead weight in the pit of my stomach. This is killing me.[/list]I'm losing hope, and I'm afraid that what I'm doing - or not doing - is making things steadily worse. Some books say that to encourage someone who's depressed to seek treatment, you shouldn't shield them from the effects of their depression. Is that advisable? How do I do that?

She's cheating on me and has no interest in being with me. What I'd really like to do is password-protecting our computer to shut off her internet access and tell her that a condition for her living at home is to keep taking her meds. But I'm afraid that if I try to force the issue or take some control I think she'll just burrow further down into her isolation and depression.

But I feel like I have to do something. Should I act?

[vacantheart]

I am in no way advising you to do anything I would do but... if it were me.... I wouldn't password protect the computer, though it's easily done by putting a drivelock password on it, so it doesn't even boot otherwise. HOWEVER.. I wouldn't! Doing so, she will more than likely feel attacked. That would be bad. She will probably pull further away and in the end, it will not benefit you or your kids at all.
I have parts of the same issues, husband pulling away, refuses communication, refuses medication... But haven't yet figured out exactly how to deal with his specific situation, as I have just recently started trying and becoming determined to get him help. But, typically people who have those problems go to online activity because it isn't the "real world", it's a place where she can be who she wants to be, no one knows her life, no one knows what kind of person she is and she can choose to make herself out to be a total victim if she wishes to do so. She holds control over how people see her. In her real life, she's depressed, she feels like she has no control and wants to block herself out from the rest of the functioning world.
All you can do is try to support her recovery. Reassure the kids that mommy and daddy both love them and that everything will be just fine. Just remember when caring for a spouse with issues like this, you have to factor in the kids and how it will affect them! Try your best to go out of your way for them NOT to see her telling you she doesn't love you or that she wants to leave or escape. They may not understand that it's just because something is wrong and may read into it in ways they shouldn't.
Again, I started to ramble a little and got off of what I was trying to say.
Support her, try to encourage her therapy and talk to her doctor about her not taking her medication. Try to explain to her that even if in the end she does leave you for whatever reason, you just want to know that she is well, for her sake, yours and that of your children and only want her to take the medication advice of the doctors for that. Tell her that you too are considering therapy or a medication for depression, even if you aren't. Try to make her feel like she isn't in it alone. Tell her that you would like for the two of you to get help together for the sake of the family and raising your children in a home that isn't broken. I'm sure doing everything is taking a toll on you anyway, so it all falls into place.

That may or may not be good advice but... again.. it's what I'd do....
Bottom line. Act. But Don't act harshly. You've done well by having that level of tolerance. Most people wouldn't. Kudos to you for holding out the way you have and stepping up to be a good dad/husband when it's truly needed.

[sunrise]

Gordon, you've been very tolerant. It reminds me a lot of what I and my husband went through (I was in your role). We are separated now, but I did try for a long time. It sounds like you are doing a lot to help, and it is very positive that your wife has recently begun therapy. She may use therapy to help with the depression, rather than meds, so I wouldn't put too much stock in her not wanting to take ADs. She is getting therapy, which can be huge in helping depression. Give it a chance to work. (I beat my depression using therapy not meds, so I know this approach works for some people.) By the way, once my husband started taking ADs, our marriage actually got worse. He became less immobilized and more able to act on his fantasies of extra-marital partners, etc. He became "stronger" and more able to treat me and our kids like c**p. Maybe this was helpful to him but I wish we could have separated before he started taking the meds to save us all a lot of grief.

I hope you can continue to support your wife in her efforts to get better with therapy. I don't think shutting off the Internet is wise. This would make her feel like a prisoner in her own home, "controlled" by you. It would be a very hostile action and probably push her further away. The problem really is not the Internet, but why she feels the need to escape her real life by using the Internet. Could you two talk about her Internet use? Work out some guidelines? Can you tell her how hurt you and the kids feel that she doesn't spend time with you anymore? And that if she spent less time on computer, you could all have more positive family time. It may not be possible for you to have this conversation, because things are too far gone (as was the case in my marriage). If this conversation is not possible, I would urge both of you to attend couples counseling. With a good therapist, you may be able to get back on track with your relationship. If your wife won't go to couples therapy with you, I would urge you to get individual therapy for help with this difficult situation.

Best of luck.

[youOme]

You can't fix this on your own. The only way this marriage could survive is if she's willing to pull her weight into improving this situation. I don't think she will.

You seem like a decent guy, maybe it's time to let go and move on. Let her go, where ever she wants and keep the kids. Why should you pull all the weight? It's a wonder your on your last string of hope. I would be too.

If you feel it's time to do something then do it. However you act is not the point, act the way you feel. I'd be %#@&#! as hell if I were you. Her mental illnesses can't justify having affairs.

I hope all works out for you and your kids.

[phelps]

Wow. Tough cross to carry Gord.
I am no professional but I am a firm believer in marriage. If i were you i'd seek professional help, not for her, but for you.
After reading your post I tried to put myself in your shoes and it's so hard because it's such a huge burden.

But as best as i understand it, if I were you, I wouldn't leave, if just for the kids' sake.
That said, (in order to help me cope), in my mind I would try to emotionally detach myself from her a bit and not to try to make her burden, my burden.
Make it so you almost view her as a house guest. You know, toodle about your business...let her do her thing...you do yours. I guess it'd be almost like treating her like you enjoy having her around but you don't HAVE to have her around. Be cordial, be nice. Involve her in dinner decisions etc...
Yeah, like a house guest is the best way to put it.

So yeah, if I were you, I'd try go about my daily routines. Perhaps go out with friends in the evening.
Show her I'm having a good time and that I can carry on without her. (even if it is fake).
Take the kids places. Get some exercise. Have conversations with her about her internet use that aren't threatening....like I might have with a guy friend who's into that kind of internet stuff. I'd almost be tempted start my own Facebook internet page and start an online freindship with her as an alias.

I'm not meaning to make your situation sound light. Please don't take it that way. I know a bit about what it is like to have a wall between you and your wife...and it's ain't fun. An my wall isn't half as tall as yours.

all the best

[wisewoman]

Definately therapy for you but also for the kids. Children who grow up with a mom like this are very apt to develop their own depression at early ages. There has been a lot of research on it. I would get the kids into a good, previously checked out therapist. Meet with the person first and then go with the children to help them with what is happening. I am sorry this is going on and ruling your life.

[gordian_knot]

From vacantheart: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
...if it were me.... I wouldn't password protect the computer... Doing so, she will more than likely feel attacked.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

And from sunrise: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I don't think shutting off the Internet is wise. This would make her feel like a prisoner in her own home, "controlled" by you. It would be a very hostile action and probably push her further away.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
<sigh> Yeah. Yeah, I know you're both right. I just... really want to, y'know? I had a friend in University who once told me that his biggest nightmare, his worst fear, was if someone he loved was hurt or in trouble, and he was powerless to do anything about it. Maybe it's a guy thing - sometimes it feels like not doing anything is worse than doing something, even if it's the wrong thing.

Also from vacantheart: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Support her... try to make her feel like she isn't in it alone.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
In small - and not-so-small - ways every day, I try to let her know that. And I try to be patient and tolerant.

From sunrise: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Could you two talk about her Internet use? Work out some guidelines? Can you tell her how hurt you and the kids feel that she doesn't spend time with you anymore?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
She's not willing to discuss limiting her time on the computer. She even kicks our kids off the computer so she can go back on, and they barely use it. She simply isn't reasonable anymore. And she knows how hurt I am, even if she believes - wrongly - that our kids haven't noticed anything wrong.

From youOme: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'd be %#@&amp;#! as hell if I were you. Her mental illnesses can't justify having affairs.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
You've nailed it. I am deeply upset about her betrayal and about how it's affected me. I've always been able to be fully, unconditionally supportive through her depression and psychosis before. I mean, she did stuff that was way out there - she once dug up our dead pet cat from its grave in the back garden because she was convinced that if she gave it a bath it would come back to life, for instance. After a hysterical phone call at work from her, I rushed home to find her covered in dirt and a half-frozen cat corpse in our bathtub.

But through all of it, I loved her, and I took care of her. But this... I can't stomach this. She says her feelings for me just turned off one day, like flipping a switch. And the kicker is that she was always afraid that I'd cheat on her. Her first husband was violent and an adulterer so for years she worried that I might have an affair. I never did, but I struggled for years for her to convince her I was trustworthy. And now she's having the affair. She betrayed me.

So now, for the first time, I keep finding myself questioning her illness. Is she really ill? Or could she be just an immoral charlatan who is using me to make it easier for her to get her rocks off?

Hm.

I don't like being "angry guy". I'm not that guy. I don't want to be that guy.

From phelps: </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
That said, (in order to help me cope), in my mind I would try to emotionally detach myself from her a bit and not to try to make her burden, my burden. Make it so you almost view her as a house guest.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I'm mostly a solitary guy, I suppose. I don't make friends easily, I read, exercise, watch movies... I do my thing. And I know becoming somewhat detached from her might be helpful. And I suppose, to some degree, I've dome that. But for me, my life isn't a life without sharing it with the woman I love. A meal together with her tastes better than a meal apart. Sex isn't interesting without our intimacy. And when I go to bed at night and I can't feel the radiating warmth of my lover's body lying next to me, it's as if a little piece of me falls away and is lost.

Hm.

Well, that's enough maudlin, self-pitying nonsense for one evening. Thanks to everyone who's responded so far.

One last thing: a question just came to mind: having an affair while chronically depressed... does that happen? I mean, is it a known potential symptom of clinical depression? Has this happened to any of you?

[youOme]

Gordian: I believe she is a very ill woman, especially since the story you described... but the excuse for any kind of illness can only go so far. Imagine, you took care of her through sickness and health, devoted yourself to her...and now. You did your part as husband, I hope you don't blame yourself in anyway.

What's wrong with being the angry guy??? You have every right to be enraged, seriously.

I don't diss therapy, I mean it won't hurt none...but isn't it beyond that point? Betrayal is forever, once you can't trust your partner that mistrust will always be in the back of your mind.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
youOme said:
I don't diss therapy, I mean it won't hurt none...but isn't it beyond that point? Betrayal is forever, once you can't trust your partner that mistrust will always be in the back of your mind.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Therapy is not just to put a marriage back together, but to help couples communicate better, come to terms with the reality of their relationship, and possibly separate. And certainly to do some healing. Even divorcing couples need healing. I had a summer's worth of couples therapy (perhaps better called "uncoupling therapy") with my spouse (soon to be ex-spouse) and it was well worth it. You can go into couples therapy not knowing if you will stay together or separate. Or you can go in already certain you will part.

[Razzleberry]

I am a woman who is much like your wife. And I feel horrible for the ***** I do to my husband. I know what I'm doing is wrong, yet I still do it, and I feel like a worthless piece of crap because of it, yet I still keep doing it.

I don't really know what to suggest. Perhaps FORCE her into therapy, although, if it's forced, I wonder how much good it will do. I dont' know. Try couples counseling if you wish. Or if she refuses to go even when you take the time to make the appointments and all that...then just cut her off. Leave. Maybe that is the rude awakening she needs to realize she has to take control of her life.

You may also want to ask her therapist about Borderline Personality Disorder. Impulsive behavior, risky sex, is one symptom. And in some people, severe dissociative symptoms. Could be her. I don't know. I'm not a professional....just another crazy woman kinda like your wife.

[youOme]

Sunrise: in that case I definitly agree.

As far as mending the marriage, I don't know. It's more a personal matter depending on the couple, but for me personally it's over the second he betrays me that way. Fixing the marriage would be unquestionable, but therapy for forgiveness and separation...not a bad idea.

[altonwoodsdrphil]

You're a much more patient man than I am...In my book what she's doing constitutes not only abandonment but mental cruelty as well. It's time to think about the kids and how this is affecting them. We take vows to stay with someone thru sickness and in health but what I see is willful sickness and definitly a time when a separation is in the best interest of all parties. Her ability to inflict her drama upon you and the kids is wrong and needs to be stopped.

[gordian_knot]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
altonwoodsdrphil said:
...What she's doing constitutes not only abandonment but mental cruelty as well. ...We take vows to stay with someone thru sickness and in health but what I see is willful sickness and definitely a time when a separation is in the best interest of all parties.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Oh, man.

I... well, I don't exactly disagree, but...

It's hard to find that line of no return, that line which, once crossed, lets you know that you must, for the best of all involved, make a very difficult decision. But in my situation, has she crossed that line? I honestly don't know for sure.

She is finally going for therapy, even if she decided in the last week to discontinue all of her medication. The kids love her and want to have her around, although she's in a closed computer room nearly all of the time. Strangely, this would be easier if she were much worse.

... I had started to type, "The decision would be easier if she were physically violent in view if the kids or if she were hurting herself..." But the thing is, she's recently done both.

A month ago I was a three-hour drive away for a meeting. My wife called me frequently, telling me about the incapacitating headings she was getting. When I had arrived at home and came in the door, the house was in chaos. My two daughters - 7 and 13 years old - were frantic, because my wife was on the couch downstairs and was unresponsive. My 13 year old had called 911 just before I came home. At the hospital they pumped her stomach and kept her under observation for a day. My wife admitted later that she took a few Tylenol 3s with codeine - an old prescription in our medicine cabinet - to try to knock back the headache... and then she decided to keep taking them. About 35 of them. That's the incident that prompted her to finally agree to therapy.

Okay. Yeah. I know. Even if I don't like to think about it or acknowledge it, she's seriously messed up. Enough to justify separating, maybe more than most. I'm sure some of you are sitting in front of your computers saying I should run, not walk, away and never look back.

So what's keeping me?

My wonderful, sensitive kids love her, and separating would break their hearts. I live in a small town of 5000 people with no family or close friends within 200 miles to help or support us. Moving would mean I'd lose my job. And we live paycheque to paycheque, sliding a little further into debt every month.

I think maybe I don't allow myself to fully see the big picture because my options are slim and it allows me to focus on trying to patch my life as it currently sits.

[Razzleberry]

I may be wrong here, but I think the fact that you stay with her is because somewhere in there, you do love her deeply. And you know that these bad behaviors are due to an illness, something she can't really seem to control on her own.

I'm not sure that seperation or divorce would really be the answer here. Not to guilt you, but it would likely make her condition worse - MUCH worse - before it got better.

Get her into treatment. Maybe even inpatient-style treatment for a week or so. Do NOT leave her alone with your kids - find a babysitter or family friend to stick around for a while. Maybe tell your wife they are just there to help out around the house for a while, you don't have to tell her that they are there to stop her from hurting herself or her kids.

If you didn't love her, you would have left her long ago. You've made it this far....don't give up. What she really needs is someone to help her realize that she needs help, and she needs it now.

Also talk to her therapists and doctors to ask what you can do to help. Ask them how to limit her internet usage without being too extreme. Ask them for advice on how to show a little "tough love" to help her realize what she's doing...but not push her over the edge by doing so.

There are also support groups for family members of those with mental illness. You may want to look into that, for yourself, and your kids. A 13 year old could be deeply effected by this kind of situation.

In the end, if you've done everything you can do and she still can't or will not change - then perhaps divorce is the answer. Try to get custody of your kids. Maybe try to put some kind of "clause" into the divorce proceedings that she can't see her kids unless she is mentally stable and undergoing treatment. That may motivate her.

And I just want to say I'm really sorry that you have to deal with this. I am sorry that there are women out there like your wife...and like me. Right now, I'm somewhat sane. But I have been just as bad as your wife, in the past. It kills me to realize what I put my husband thru. Luckily my daughter is still too young to understand...but it also kills me to remember the nights I left her crying alone because I was too messed up to handle it. I hate what I've done to the people I love. That's the worst part. It's bad enough to ***** up my own life, but now I've gone and done it to people I love. But...that's why I'm going to see a shrink again, tonight. I've noticed things coming back again and I REFUSE to let myself get as bad as I was before. I have to stop it before it gets out of control again.

[Lenny]

Love does not fix mental illness.

Believe me, I wish it did,,but it don't.

Begin with loving boundaries,,,what will no longer be accepted in your relationship,,what she must do and commit to and what you will do in return. Somebody must begin to change this dynamic and her illness will prevent her as long as someone is supporting her denial.

My last point,,,which has always been very sensitive too me is your children. What long term harm and potential casts of dysfunction are being passed to these young souls by this continued and consistent experience?

They should be first on any list...

I know I seem harsh gordian and I don't mean too but I have seen good intentions drive people into tormented chaos. Good intentions should be characterized by strong loving boundaries and action. There will be slips and back steps but with a willingness by everyone to move forward these can be mitigated by some display of progress...

I truly wish you and yours only the best..

IMHO.

Lenny

[trippinmickey]

I'm going to make this short!!! 302 her force her to get help! its your last hope .Been though it my self and I've been on both ends (long stories)But almost word for word way you explained it.I was force into help and got better .My friend was not lives in a online hell alone .

[gordian_knot]

Razzleberry, I do love her. In all the years of her illness, I've never stopped loving her. But for the first time I can feel that love eroding away. Living without the touch of someone I love is excruciating and isolating.

And Lenny, I know that love alone can't fix mental illness, nor is love alone enough to sustain a relationship. And I find I'm always mentally weighing the impact to my kids in my mind.

Regarding her treatment, here's a new development. I tried to talk to her again yesterday, which is always like walking through a damn minefield. I mentioned to you a few posts ago that she's seeing a therapist for the first time in years. This is the therapist that was called to assess her at the hospital after her suicide attempt a while ago. Well, her therapist told her that she shouldn't work on her relationship until she works on healing herself first. Apparently I'm supposed to give her ten weeks and not pressure her, challenge her, or in any way give her any stress, so that she can focus on getting herself better. My wife has flatly told me that this is the way it's got to be right now.

In theory, I guess I understand that it's more important right now to safeguard her life than her relationship with me. And I suppose I can hold out for another ten weeks. But there has to be some display of progress, like Lenny said. But her ongoing affair, and how she paints me as an absolute a--hole with her online friends, hurts so much that everyday it's like pulling a boulder up a steeper hill.

Her therapy qualifies as a display of progress though. I guess sucking it up for a little while longer is what I'll be doing.

[gordian_knot]

I forgot to add:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Razzleberry said:
And I just want to say I'm really sorry that you have to deal with this. I am sorry that there are women out there like your wife... It kills me to realize what I put my husband thru. I hate what I've done to the people I love. That's the worst part. It's bad enough to ***** up my own life, but now I've gone and done it to people I love.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Everything that I've been through - all of it - would be worth it if my wife would say that to me. Just once.

[Razzleberry]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
gordian_knot said:
Well, her therapist told her that she shouldn't work on her relationship until she works on healing herself first. Apparently I'm supposed to give her ten weeks and not pressure her, challenge her, or in any way give her any stress, so that she can focus on getting herself better.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I hate to say it, but the therapist is right. She needs to fix herself first before she can fix the marriage.

One more suggestion - could you get an appointment with that therapist, for yourself? I'm not saying you are crazy, just that maybe he can help you move past things and help you know how to help your wife....or help you move past it and move on if divorce is what has to happen. It also might help to get the kids in there once in a while. Just a thought.

[Razzleberry]

I keep thinking about this that you said in the first post:
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
[*] She had a sudden personality change in November 2007, after which she has almost completely cut herself off from everyone, including me and our two kids. She tells me that she doesn't know if she's in love with me anymore.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

What happened in November? Is ther anything you can think of that triggered this? If you can try and remember what made her "snap" maybe that can help you, and the therapist, fix it. I don't know.

Also, with the recent suicide, the lack of sleep, the sex stuff....maybe I've just been reading too much lately, but it makes me think of either Bipolar or Borderline, not just Depression. The impulsive risky behavior (sex) is one huge thing, as well as the lack of sleep. Just be careful, because if she is Bipolar - antidepressant meds can make her worse instead of better.

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...&amp;lstid=325

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Sec...ontentID=44780

Even so - these mental illnesses do NOT justify cheating. Yes, they make you impulsive and cause you to take risks you may not otherwise take. But think of it this way...if we were talking about murder instead of infidelity, she would not be eligible for an insanity defense. She knows what she's doing is wrong yet she still does it. And no, not every person with Bipolar goes out and cheats on thier spouse. It does not excuse it. She needs to know that.

And as far as the internet usage - she's addicted. Just like any addiction - alcohol, crack, tobacco - you can't just cut her off cold turkey, or she will freak out!! Get some software to restrict her use, and maybe start limiting her to 5 hours a day or 3 hours a day, and then gradually down to just enough time to check an email and the weather and that's it. But if you throw the computer out the window....she will just be like a crack addict trying to get her 'fix'. Not pretty!!

I hope things work out for you somehow. Sorry.

[gordian_knot]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Razzleberry said: One more suggestion - could you get an appointment with that therapist, for yourself?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Funny you should mention that. This past Easter weekend was rough. No matter how non-confrontational I am, just my presence irritates her to furious anger. Here's a small example: when she finds a song that she likes, she plays it repeatedly for hours at a time. We were headed into town so she asked me to burn it to a CD so she could play it in the car. I misunderstood her and copied the entire album to disc instead. When we got into the vehicle and she realized the song she wanted wasn't the first track on the disc she was upset, so I started to skip through the tracks to find her song for her. She told me to "forget about it", but I felt bad that I had misunderstood her so I kept trying to find her song to try to make it right. She blew up for five solid minutes - with our kids in the back seat - loudly and furiously berating me for not listening to her. And this kind of thing happens many, many times per day.

I know I'm not a worthless person but she tries very hard to make me feel like it, and I don't know what to say or how to act anymore to prevent it from happening, and it makes me feel helpless and rotten. So this morning I called and booked an appointment with a local therapist to learn some coping strategies and get some other questions answered, namely about her affair and her internet usage. I won't be seeing my wife’s therapist, mind you. The office has a policy not to individually treat multiple family members outside of a joint or family counselling session due to conflict of interest, so another therapist will see me.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Razzleberry said: What happened in November? Is there anything you can think of that triggered this? If you can try and remember what made her "snap" maybe that can help you, and the therapist, fix it.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I know exactly what happened in November. My wife and I and our two kids travelled about 300 km/190 miles to spend the weekend with our 21-year-old daughter's family - actually my stepdaughter, but I consider her my own child, since I've raised her since she was five. We had just arrived and unpacked all of our luggage when my daughter made some sort of comment to my wife about her destructive behaviour. The argument escalated quickly and my daughter, who also has a temper and is somewhat high-strung, told my wife, "Well, maybe you should just leave, then."

So my wife came to me and said, "We're leaving." I tried to take them both aside and get them to calm down and work things out but that seemed to make things worse. They were yelling at each other, and my younger kids were distressed. My wife left the house to wait outside in the vehicle, I packed up everything I had just unpacked, got the kids ready, told my very upset oldest daughter that things’ll calm down with a bit of time, and we left. My wife wanted to go home.

Before I continue, I need to clarify my state of mind that evening. I strongly believe that adults should be able to calmly sit down to talk about and resolve most problems without angry, dramatic gestures like this one that affect not just yourself but everyone around you, especially when younger kids are involved. Plus, I had just packed, driven for over three hours, unpacked, and repacked again, so I was tired.

So I did two things which I didn’t realize would light the fuse on her dynamite: first, I said that instead of driving another three hours we should go stay at my parents’ house that was less than ½ hour away. Second, I kept trying to tell my wife that, although she had every right to be upset, we should’ve stayed and resolved things rather than take off and upset the kids. She snapped, violently. She started shrieking, swearing, and hitting me while I was driving 60 mph on the highway with two scared and sobbing kids in the back seat. When we got to my parents, she took off in the car with the intent – she later told me – of killing herself. Eventually she came back, but although she was seriously depressed for years prior to this incident, she’s been a thousand times worse ever since.

My wife blames this incident, that she says was entirely caused by me, as the day "everything changed". Although she acknowledges that she's depressed, she says this incident made her the way she is today. This isn't true. This may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but many stagnant years of her untreated mental illness led directly to it. And if she was in a right, normal, reasonable state of mind, she would've been able to defuse the arguement almost before it started.

[gordian_knot]

There have been some new developments, which are actually much the same as all the old developments.

Despite her suicide attempt, she hasn't taken any of her medication and she stopped going to therapy after all of two sessions. She’s still on the internet up to 15 hours per day while I take care of every single other household and parenting responsibility. Meanwhile, she declares her love daily to the guy she's having an online affair with, has cybersex with him regularly, plus now she talks to him on the phone and says she wants to have a child with him.

I’ve finally decided I cannot allow this to continue. I’ve been told that if she attempts suicide again, Child Welfare/Social Services could start an investigation to determine whether or not our house is a suitable environment for our kids. There’s no way in hell I’ll let that happen.

So I’ve taken some steps. I’ve protected our finances and I’ve found out what my legal rights are when it comes to the safety of my kids. I really, truly love her and I don’t want a divorce, but I need to know my options.

Now comes the really hard part. I’m prepared to accept her illness and help her through it if she wants me to, like I’ve always done, but I’m not prepared to accept either her infidelity or her unwillingness to get medical and psychological help. The plan I put together after talking with a therapist is to do the following: <ul type="square">[*]Make sure the kids are out of the house and then talk to my wife and tell her, calmly and rationally, that I will no longer allow her behaviour and her choices damage our relationship and our family. I’ll describe her behaviour, tell her how I’m feeling, and then be assertive and set limits, not as a punishment or because I think this is how she should act, but because this is how I’d like to be treated and what I feel is best for me and my family.[*]First limit is to cut off internet access to the house. To leave it running is to perpetuate and condone her infidelity.[*]Second, tell her I can’t be in a relationship with someone who refuses treatment for a treatable illness, nor is it safe for our kids. That’ll mean that if she doesn’t go to therapy and take her meds, I’ll start an official separation.[/list]Finally, I’m going to let my family and close friends know exactly what’s going on, because God knows I’m going to need the support.

Frankly, I’m terrified that I’m starting something I won’t be able to stop. But I know it’s the right thing. I just hope I’m handling this right. Has anyone else been through something like this?

[StarPonysMama]

I just read this thread. WOW. NOW THAT IS LOVE AND COMMITMENT.

Kudos to you and many HUGS! I hope that she agrees to work with you. If not, at least you know you have given it your all. I may be facing that soon myself - to be seen- so I can understand on a small scale - certainly not to this magnitude though.

((((((((((((((((((gordian_knot)))))))))))))))))))

[gordian_knot]

Thanks, Star. I really hope so too. One thing's for sure - it's going to cause a category 5 hurricane in my house, at least initially.

That's the main reason I've delayed making the decision to act. I get complacent, y'know? When I don't challenge her or try to talk to her about her behaviour or try to shift responsibility back to her... things are somewhat calm. But I've finally decided I can't continue the status quo.

So... has anyone else been in a similar situation, where you've had to make some hard decisions to safeguard yourself and your family, and you knew your mentally-ill spouse was going to absolutely freak out?

[LMo]

Wow - I can't believe I missed this thread before. I don't have an adultery problem in my marriage, but a lot of your wife's resistance and coping skills sound like my husband's. I've been to a lot of support groups online and in real life for how to deal with a depressed/severely anxious spouse, but you are the first person who seems to be exactly on the same wavelength as I am, regarding love vs boundaries, compassion vs not being a doormat. It's a struggle, no matter what - I am a very strong person but I honestly don't know what to do some days - nothing seems to make a difference.

Thanks for sharing all of this - your posts and the responses have been really helpful to me. I will continue to watch your posts and support you as best I can, given that I'm in a similar boat.