Found out my attraction to T is mutual

So the session before last, as I was hugging T goodbye, she said, "You're such a good hugger." There was this tiny quiver in her voice that suggested something might be going on in her. Now I've talked with her on a fairly regular basis about my crush feelings for her for the last 6 months of the 10 months I've been seeing her, so it stuck in my craw all week that she'd say that to me at all. So this week I asked her if she was attracted to me because I about had myself convinced that this was all projection and wish fulfillment.

She was as forthright as she usually is when I ask her a question and told me that she is very attracted to me on all kinds of levels, that if we had met another way and I wasn't married, she would love to date me, and that, although she is glad she's my therapist, she deeply mourns that she can't have a different relationship with me and has to maintain her therapist role. I talked about my intense surprise at her response since I feel like such an unattractive person, and she said she couldn't imagine not being attracted to me.

We talked about how we have to come to an acceptance of the constraints of our relationship, and I have to allow myself to grieve. We also discussed how we were lucky that our paths crossed at all, and I told her although I grieve a non-professional relationship, I'm deeply grateful that she's my therapist because of the incredible progress I've made with her. She commended me for my courage in talking about this so promptly. Honestly, there was a lot of love and respect in the room, but it felt safe and a bit sad.

It wasn't really until I left that the shock kinda hit. I talked to several AA friends about it, and, although I was really scared of her response, I also told my partner about it. She seemed unsurprised, and was totally accepting and supportive. Score one for honesty. I'm just gonna have to keep my finger on the pulse of my T relationship. If I feel like I'm censoring myself or not getting good work done, I'll switch therapists. Otherwise this mutual attraction might well be an opportunity for growth, and help me become more skilled at being monogamous and having a relationship with someone I'm attracted to.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts or experiences that might be helpful.

Well, even though she let you know that the two of you cannot date, she should have never admitted that she is attracted to you. Instead, she should have said that therapy is about you, your feelings and emotions, not hers. This is how it all started between me and my ex T. It is so easy and tempting for both parties to cross the line and that is why it is so important for therapists to set their own boundaries.
Can you be honest and tell me if there is a hope that maybe in the future, somehow, the two of you might have a romantic relationship?

Of course there's a hope, but not rational one. And, honestly, if she wasn't my therapist, I don't think I'd be attracted to her. I can't really say that if we met in a different way, and I wasn't married that I would love to date her, but I do think she'd be a good friend. I think the sexual feelings arise from the therapy context. She's not really my type.

Did you talk about it with a bunch of people who generally hold you accountable or did you keep it a secret? I'm gonna do my best to keep talking about it, so warning signs can be recognized.

My t admitted his feelings for me (you are in my heart and in my head; if I were not married I would probably go for it and 100;s of other provocative remarks)....I have been in love with him for 7 years, and have somehow found a way to live with the knowledge that he isn't available, etc.....It would have been better for me, if I hadn't known about his feelingd for me. There is nothing I can do about it.

I agree with you Nicole that it would be better for you if you didn't know. From what you've said in previous posts, it sounds like therapy ceased for you a very long time ago. In fact, every time you refer to this guy as your T, I cringe, because he doesn't merit the label except in that you have to make appointments to see him and that you pay him. If my dynamics began to remotely resemble yours, I would hit the bricks so fast I'd leave a cloud of dust. You serve as a warning beacon to me. Have you ever thought of just trying another T to talk about what goes on with your charlatan?

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talking isn't doing. Your T gave you honest feedback on something you were sensing, after you asked.

Who ELSE would you talk to this about? Ignoring it doesn't make it go away. And talking about it doesn't MAKE something happen, altho Tom Cruise might have a different opinion about that. We might be taking all the fun out of things, but it looks to me like you're just trying to get that 20-20 hindsight AHEAD of any actions.

Well, I can't think of anything Tom Cruise has been wrong about.

Seriously, you may well be right that I'm trying to take the fun out of it by talking about it. I'm not in therapy to have fun, so I'm fairly leery of the pleasure I'm taking in her attraction. If I can make what's happening more public and less just between the two of us, then it is less dangerous, exciting, and pleasurable.

I think it's called being mature, taking responsibility, crap like that.

I was very open about it. We ended up dating, which was a disaster. And like you, I would have never dated him if I met him outside of his office. He is 23 years older and not really what I am looking for.
Just be careful. It really messed me up mentally.

I'm sorry, i don't mean to make light of what happened to you. Did you get "after-care"? ie see someone else afterwards to talk about it? I came to PC a year ago pretty much FOR this particular sub-forum. I mean, it's how I found it when I googled.

This set off red flags for me...I truly hope that you will find a new T. A boundary has been crossed that is completely unethical, unprofessional and highly dangerous. It was the professional duty of your T to NOT respond in that manner. T is about you and your feelings and exploring those feelings and how you got there. T is all about you and there are serious consequences that arise to the detriment of the client when a T cannot control themself and make things about them.

IF she does have feelings, it is for her to discuss and work out with her T. She clearly has a problem with boundaries and her professional duty to you. You are in a relationship that needs to have clear VERY CLEAR boundaries. She dissolved that between you for now it is a free for all.

Sorry to say but some Ts are supremely messed up.
It sounds as if your T did a great dis-service to you both. But also gave you some great insight....that you need to get away.

I don't want to invalidate or discount your feelings, either. For they are real and precious and important.

Something else I dont understand is your S/Os response to this whole thing.

For the sake of your well being and safety, I urge you to find another T. Talk to T2 about what has occurred and get help in making that transition.

You sound quite intelligent. This is not a game and it is not for you to have to take the temp or monitor things so YOU are safe with someone who is clearly dangling a carrot in front of your face. That is NOT your job.

Rose

Hi Hankster
Unfortunately i ended up been put on 51/50 and had 3 different therapists that I was not able to make a connection with. I finally found a female therapist that I like.
I also joined mental help site. It has been a roller coaster. I am getting stronger every day but this experience will definitely stay with me for the rest of my life.
I hope you are well.

It's called trust?
more like a peach

No one is proposing an open, three-way marriage or an affair or anything. The T simply VALIDATED her client's feelings. These things can happen at work, anywhere. Do we have to feel threatened or feel our r/s or our safety is threatened because our S/O makes a joke with the waitress at the restaurant? I don't like having to choose between NEVER chatting with another stranger, or having an S/O, or feeling WOUNDED because my S/O is having FUN with someone besides me.

So where do you draw the line? What is that WOUNDED, insecure feeling about, where does it come from? So instead of closing our eyes and starting over yet again, talk it out with someone who DOES matter, and I agree, if they need support, there's a vehicle in place for them to get it, so that's the good news, right? Good comments, Rose. I understand what you're saying: to please take the benefit of your experience. But I don't see an understanding of THIS situation, or other examples that would explain, like there was for rainbow's thread. that was an awesome thread, as hard as it may have been for rain to read it? because everybody discussed having those same feelings.

((((Hank)))) thanks for your note.

I did not read that the T validated the feelings...I did not read that the T turned the topic back to the client to examine. I read that the T incited...inflamed...a delicate situation.

As far as trust with the S/O goes and your examples I dont see how that relates here. I think you misunderstood.

It is my understanding that where there is an inbalance of power in any situation, it is the person in authority or the superior or in his case a Professional, to keep the client safe. Esp safe from the imbalance of power. Being vulnerable...i do believe there are actual oaths and regs protect people in these situations.

It read to me as if the T has now made it a sort of game. Esp because i recall reading that the poster had somewhat low self esteem in their thoughts of their appearance.

Peach...hah! Good one.

Frankly by the way, if my S/O was vulnurable and the person they were seeing for help did this, I would be quite concerned about the Ts abilities. Not my S/Os faithfulness or intentions. And I dont make light of these things or go to an extreme such as speaking with a waitress or making an offhanded remark to a coworker in jest.

This is T. Not the playground...

R

thanks, rose. re a coworker, I meant to look at the situation as what would you do if you developed strong feelings for a coworker. I think infidelity is ALWAYS a possible topic of discussion for a couple, unless they bring back chastity belts. so why would the issue even come up for snuffle now, unless her eye were wandering anyway? she could move on to the next T and have the same issue again, cos let's face it, our poor T's are like Mr Potato Head, completely interchangeable. Hmmm - I bet she's glad now that she asked for help... the point was tho, that snuffle is irresistible, not her T, so changing T's wouldn't help anyway

re my other examples - I am probably the worst person to talk about r/s. my father once told me that he was never sure if my mother loved him, but that was okay, because it made it more exciting. I was over 35 when I heard this. so probably about the worst role models ever.

I don't know that it's necessary to find a new T. Snuff, do you trust her to hold the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship? Has she given any indication of not doing so?

I saw this as Snuff's T validating Snuff's perceptions of the situation - that there was a mutual attraction - while stating very clearly that they would not be acting on that attraction.

Maybe it's because I've been in a similar situation with my T that I don't see this as the death knell to the therapeutic relationship. My T and I are very clear about the relationship IS and what it ISN'T. He has indicated the attraction is mutual, and that no matter how we met, we would have 'clicked.' For me, for us, him telling me this was not him putting his needs ahead of mine. It was about him validating my perceptions, about reassuring me that no matter what I say to him, he will not think I'm disgusting. His finally giving me that information was what I needed to FINALLY be able to address things that I fully intended to keep hidden the rest of life, no matter what. I trust my T when he says there is a difference between our thoughts, our feelings and our actions. We get to have our feelings. We do not get to act upon them.

So Snuff, trust your instincts. If you T seems to be putting her needs ahead of yours, if she seems like she's encroaching on the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship, THEN you should leave.

Good points, Hank. And i hear you MKAC...Thanks.

I guess infidelity isn't an issue for me in my relationships. It is a non- negotiable, so if my S/O slipped or made a mis- step in this area...trust is broken. Relationship over. We are all human and make mistakes but this type of thing for me is a non-negotiable and not up for further discussion. Time for everyone to move on.
Hey! I think this got off topic. Sorry!

And MKAC that wasnt my takeaway from this particular post. I read it a few times...what stuck out for me is the detail in which the T validated...pretty specific stuff. Although i wasnt there so i dont know exactly what the poster said exactly...

I should think a solid validation of mutual attraction and then a quick turnaround back to the client and their needs, wishes, desires and feelings would have been the more responsible, professional thing to do. Then T could go into the fantasies and wishlist with their own T.

Hugs, Rose

Well, this is fun isn't it? Bit of a hot button, eh? Rose, I appreciate your concern, but I don't think anything I said communicated me viewing the situation as a game or a playground, and from what I've read, (which is ample--I have the luxury of having online access to many psych journals) her responses to my very direct questions were well within the bounds of professional acceptability.

More importantly, I felt safe and comfortable talking about it with her. She's got at least 20 years of experience under her belt, and she knows that the failure of my last therapeutic relationship was largely the result of that therapist never validating my perceptions about what was happening between the two of us.

Extra points to Hankster for calling me irresistible!

MKAC, I knew you'd be able to relate. And, no, she has given me no reason to doubt her professional integrity. I think the reason my partner was so blase about it is that, yes, she deeply trusts me and the robust health of our relationship, but she's also come to trust in my T, as I share my therapeutic interactions with her. She has witnessed the progress in both my boundaries and my self-esteem since I started working with this T, and she wouldn't want to impede any relationship that I'm finding genuinely helpful.

I will keep sharing those interactions with her, and if she sees something troubling, I'm sure she'll let me know. Likewise, I'll be totally honest with my AA sponsor, who, I assure you, will not mince words.

Hey, Snuffleupagus! Thanks for your previous message. Yes, I have contacted another t to discuss my situation.

Therapy ended a long time ago. I went to see him for a business related problem, so there were no real personal type from the past, etc.....problems.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Hi Snuff ... concern for all of us. For as many good Ts there are out there, the bad ones are staggering.

Also thank you for clarifying your part in the convo with your T. Obviously you omitted a few facts that we were not privy to...

Best wishes to you
Cheers

If I may enter this discussion, I want to point out there is something to be said for honesty from a T when they are supposed to help us be honest with ourselves. What if the T denied feeling attracted, yet blushed and stammered in Snuff's presence? What if she began to stalk Snuff in secret while saying "No. I'm not attracted to you. The feeling is not mutual."?

With the feelings I had for my T, I was told one thing that is the legal, responsible thing: "I am not going to have sex with you."

That is blunt and makes a statement about integrity and support for the dynamics of the relationship.

I took this very well. And I grew in my self-respect when I thought about what my T did NOT say. She did not say: "I am not attracted to you"; "you are disgusting"; "ewww--as IF". She did NOT say, "you are not allowed to speak of your feelings in here."

If T had said, "awesome! Let's ditch this therapy and start dating" then that would have been an ethical violation. Several variations on that theme would also be ethical violations. But to simply acknowledge mutual feelings is NOT an ethical violation; it is honesty, which a good T will model for us. We--the T and the client--can learn from this experience that we don't have to act on something just because we feel it. Snuff's T is modeling honesty, restraint, coping with loss and grief, and professionalism.

In the process of learning, even emotional learning, we need role models and we sometimes need (as Plato knew) a spark of passion. Passion can help us become better people. The restraining of said passion can help us model what to do with intense and unorthodox feelings. If more people practiced and modeled restraint, we would all learn to be kinder to one another.

I admire the T of Snuff. As for myself, had my T responded differently, I would have found more reasons to hate myself. She made her ethical responsibility and boundary clear without hurting me. And showed me an example of how to respond kindly and ethically to others' feelings. I have learned a great deal from this. And, in fact, I am no longer in love with her, but I love her, respect her, am attracted to her...all kinds of pleasurable and happy things. I'm not messed up, and I have learned a good way to respond to other people.

Before I told my T of my feelings, I began to notice little signs that she had feelings for me. She did not confirm or deny this. She simply stated: "I will not have sex with you." And I did not push her to elaborate. The workings of her inner mind and heart are not my business.

Keep up the great dialogue, everyone!

Hi ((((Shipping)))) I am so happy for you that you had such a good experience and takeaway from your T. The thing that struck me again is your Ts out of left field response.

Also, examples cited by you regarding your Ts otherwise devastating response in the absolute negative to whatever it was that you really said.

While I do so agree that it can be highly beneficial and quite life changing for our Ts to foster honesty and continued trust in the environment, I do think there are boundaries that must be set in order to discourage countertransference.

I do believe while yes it is our Ts responsibility to validate and encourage us, I also believe that how our T is feeling is not truly as important as how we are feeling and how we got to that feeling.

Again I am not privy to the entire convo w/your T so I am not sure how "I am not going to have sex with you" came up.

Wishing you the best in good health
Cheers
Rose

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, shipping. I do feel very safe with my T, and I admire her honesty. My Dad is very near death right now, and I've been having panic attacks after years going without. Full body, very-dangerous-when-you're-driving panic attacks. I had one today and called my T, and she got back to me within the hour. She is a great, dedicated T who I really click with, and unless I see some actual boundary violation, I am not giving that up.

My Dad's health is why I haven't been around the forums for a while. Just trying to simple up my life while I'm going through this incredibly painful process, and I don't feel like I have much to give. My life barely feels real.

This interaction with my T that I posted about felt very real--a kind of reminder that I'm alive, a part of this world, and can have an impact on others.

((((Snuff)))sorry to learn about your father...I am really glad you have your T for safe harbour...thoughts are with you.
Rose

I am sorry your father's health is failing, Snuff. Here's an interesting thing; my T's father died in January and my father died in February. We have been able to be supportive for each other on this incident, whereas generally T insists we are here for me only. I sent T a card, and she appreciated it. Anyway, maybe I'm free associating too much here. But hang in there, Snuff. Remember the best times.