[cubabe29]

I am having a difficult time grasping my mom's behavior because of her narcissistic personality disorder. I understand that people who are abusers don't necessarily realize that they are emotionally abusing you, but I only believe that to a certain extent.

When she used to bully me and my brother and sister when we were younger by saying "do you want to play power"....she had to have known before saying it that it was to intimidate/instill fear in us. My mom might love me in whatever way she is capable of since clearly she doesnt love herself.....but i honestly feel content with disengaging any sort of loving emotions i had for her. I do not feel she is completely unaware of her narcisistic ways and yes a part of me feels sorry for her for what her father did to her. However, she has done the EXACT SAME emotionally abusive behaviors to me, but yet I am not that way nor will I ever be that way because I am breaking the cycle.

I don't want to hate my mom but I don't want to essentially waste my time deeply caring for someone, even though she is sick, who on some level is aware of her selfish, disrespectful and emotionally abusive ways.She's a sixth grade teacher,she would've been fired the first week instead of teaching at the same school for 15+ years if she was completely oblivious to her abusive behaviors.

[Emotionally Dead]

I wouldn't say that they don't realize it. Sometimes they probably do think about it and feel bad. But in the heat of the moment, no they probably don't realize what they are doing. We are all capable of being emotionally abusive, in my opinion. Some more than others. But most all of us have lashed out at someone at some point and probably felt bad about it later. I know I have, on more than one occasion. But I never really realized it during the heat of the moment.

Sorry you're going through all this, though. Hope it gets better soon.

[cubabe29]

Yes I agree with you a 100% . My mom sees herself as "perfect" in her false image of herself so she does no wrong in her mind. The worst part is she can't empathize and put herself in other people's shoes, that to me is the worst part. Quick example, I'm 30 and in July I had surgery for a torn labrum on my right arm, my dominant arm , from an old injury. I still am having issues with my arm like my hand turns blue/cold pretty frequently so I more than likely will have a 2nd surgery soon. When I would talk to my mom about not sleeping for 4 nights bc of pain/no circulation, she'll start talking about her arthritis pain in her knee, she's 63 years old (I would expect frequent aches&pains when I'm that old). And I would try to make the argument that I'm only 30 and dealing with this, it's only going to get worse as I get older. She always turns any situation around to be all about her.
I find it funny know but I wish she was like most of us that say something in the moment and regret it later by apologizing to that person. My mom has never done that.
Thank you for responding. I don't feel as angry as I did earlier so thanks for helping me .

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Emotionally Dead]

Originally Posted by cubabe29

Yes I agree with you a 100% . My mom sees herself as "perfect" in her false image of herself so she does no wrong in her mind. The worst part is she can't empathize and put herself in other people's shoes, that to me is the worst part. Quick example, I'm 30 and in July I had surgery for a torn labrum on my right arm, my dominant arm , from an old injury. I still am having issues with my arm like my hand turns blue/cold pretty frequently so I more than likely will have a 2nd surgery soon. When I would talk to my mom about not sleeping for 4 nights bc of pain/no circulation, she'll start talking about her arthritis pain in her knee, she's 63 years old (I would expect frequent aches&pains when I'm that old). And I would try to make the argument that I'm only 30 and dealing with this, it's only going to get worse as I get older. She always turns any situation around to be all about her.
I find it funny know but I wish she was like most of us that say something in the moment and regret it later by apologizing to that person. My mom has never done that.
Thank you for responding. I don't feel as angry as I did earlier so thanks for helping me .

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Definitely sounds like a pride thing. That's another issue. Sometimes people know they did/do wrong but just have too much pride to apologize. Could be part of her issue. I have known people like her. I suffer from too much pride like most of us, but I'm a softy when it boils down to it and I pretty much always apologize when I've hurt someone because I hate hurting people.

It could be pride, or it could just be that she really doesn't realize what she does. She may even think that she had a reason to do it, even if she didn't. I do hope it gets better for you, and I understand the pain thing. I have a tough job and get a lot of pain myself, and I just turned 23! I have a wrist that needs surgery (never got it done) and back pains and general body aches frequently. So I will be right with you when I get older too. Probably move like a 60 year old when I'm 30.

[cubabe29]

Yah I think everyone can agree about the pride thing, I know I certainly can. My mom portrays herself that she is a extremely confident individual to everyone, including my family. What's sad is she is the most insecure person I know and she definitely doesn't realize that by over compensating her insecurities by appearing confident, that people can see through her "mask." Maybe not most of the people she interacts with in public, but my brother and I do see past that.
I know she sees apologizing as a sign of defeat/weakness when in reality being able to be vulnerable in a sense & take accountability/ownership when you were in the wrong actually is a sign of true self confidence in my opinion. She won't know anything about something you actually know quite a bit about and can prove her wrong factually, but she'll act as if she knows more about it. It used to bother me that she's like that but now I think it's pretty funny in a positive way for myself to not let it get to me. That behavior to me isn't necessarily a "normal" sense of pride. I hate when im wrong about something but once I realize it, I right my wrong by apologizing.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[cubabe29]

Oh yah, I forgot to THANK YOU for making me laugh about the you'll probably move like you're 60 when you're 30 comment . You made my night or I guess early Friday morning where I am

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[Rosondo]

Originally Posted by cubabe29

I am having a difficult time grasping my mom's behavior because of her narcissistic personality disorder. I understand that people who are abusers don't necessarily realize that they are emotionally abusing you, but I only believe that to a certain extent.

When she used to bully me and my brother and sister when we were younger by saying "do you want to play power"....she had to have known before saying it that it was to intimidate/instill fear in us. My mom might love me in whatever way she is capable of since clearly she doesnt love herself.....but i honestly feel content with disengaging any sort of loving emotions i had for her. I do not feel she is completely unaware of her narcisistic ways and yes a part of me feels sorry for her for what her father did to her. However, she has done the EXACT SAME emotionally abusive behaviors to me, but yet I am not that way nor will I ever be that way because I am breaking the cycle.

I don't want to hate my mom but I don't want to essentially waste my time deeply caring for someone, even though she is sick, who on some level is aware of her selfish, disrespectful and emotionally abusive ways.She's a sixth grade teacher,she would've been fired the first week instead of teaching at the same school for 15+ years if she was completely oblivious to her abusive behaviors.

Yeah, I think Emotionally Dead said it very well. I think we are all capable of this and also they don't realize it in the moment perhaps but they might reflect on it later and feel bad about it. Unless they are true psychopaths, in which case they never realize it because they can't feel sympathy. But that is fairly rare.

Sometimes people just don't realize it period. Sometimes they realize it, either because they do care or because they are told about it by others...yet in the heat of the moment they are not self-aware. Awareness is not necessarily a black and white thing. I mean I imagine it is perhaps possible to be aware of the damage you are causing but also to feel that whatever other thing on your mind is way more important. Kind of like if your house caught on fire and you ended up pushing some people out of the way in order to escape. You realize at some level what you're doing but heck your house is on fire!

None of these are justifications really. Those of us in current or past abusive relationships did end up getting hurt. And some so very badly. Some, very very very badly. We made ourselves vulnerable, we tried our best to get and give love, we did everything possible to make these people happy or love us or at least not hate us, and yet we were not able to in a consistent way. Sometimes I wonder if the hurt will ever go away. When it comes on, it consumes me. It's not like a cold, it's like the worst kind of flu that just knocks you off your feet out of the blue. Those of us who were hurt in abusive relationships with our own family, have it even worse. Who can you trust now? Who will love you now? If your own family (parents in particular) did not love you, did not care about you, how the heck can you expect anybody else to do that? Your own flesh and blood called you names, mocked you, kicked you when you were down, put their hand right through your chest and twisted your heart, pulled it out and spat on it, stumped on it, poured boiling water on it, stabbed it...again and again and again and again...

[cubabe29]

[quote=Rosondo;3442007]Yeah, I think Emotionally Dead said it very well. I think we are
Sometimes people just don't realize it period. Sometimes they realize it, either because they do care or because they are told about it by others...yet in the heat of the moment they are not self-aware. Awareness is not necessarily a black and white thing. I mean I imagine it is perhaps possible to be aware of the damage you are causing but also to feel that whatever other thing on your mind is way more important. Kind of like if your house caught on fire and you ended up pushing some people out of the way in order to escape. You realize at some level what you're doing but heck your house is on fire!

The house on fire analogy you used was such a perfect one to use. At times when my mom will lie, deny, and manipulate my dad so she can shift the blame on me even though she DOES know that I know as well she is lying, it makes me think she is a sociopath because I would NEVER do that to my child! The only time she can manipulate my dad or whoever else in my family is when I'm not there to speak for myself. Fortunately, when my dad is standing right there when she's in the wrong she obviously can't manipulate him and play the victim as easily. But whenever I'm not around and I'm confronted later on by both of them together it sucks because it's 2 against 1 then. Out of all of us, meaning my brother and sister, I'm the only one who stands up to my mom which is good in a way but bad in a way bc they keep allowing her to be her narcissistic emotionally abusive self. I know I can't feel sad about that bc that is their choice to not stand up to her. My brother, sister and I have all spoken to each other about our mom bullying us but both of them are in relationships where their significant other has some identical qualities to my mom. i can be wearing a black shirt and my mom will manipulate everyone that I am really wearing a white shirt.
Im living with my parents right now bc of my arm situation which is good and bad. It's good bc I don't know if I would've realized as soon or at all that she has NPD. The bad is she can piss me off in the fact that I recognize all of her "ammo" and there are times when I just want to say I have figured her out but I know it's beyond pointless to do that. I'm just trying to snap myself out of that anger and find therapeutic humor in her behavior, if that makes any sense????

[nicoleflynn]

Abusers are extremely insecure; they abuse in private, because they know anyone outside would never put up with it and call them on it. The verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans saved my life. Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud is another excellent resource. Knowledge is power.

[healingme4me]

'Whos PullingYour Strings', is another good one. Came recommended, by a Psychologist, when I began unraveling myself, from my own abusers. Think there's another one out there, same author 'Disease to Please'

Best of luck, working your way out of the abusive/controlled pattern, in your life.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

[cubabe29]

Thank you for your recommendations. My therapist mentioned one called The Mom Factor. I actually have the Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud, but hadn't read very much of it when I did about 8 months ago. Also, I know a lot more about myself with the help of my therapist, as well as my own personal commitment to stop allowing her to control & bully me. I refuse to be a victim of someone else's internal hell that they are living in and to put up with her bullying.
I was telling my therapist the other day that right now when I read those books even though I know they are helpful, I avoid it bc it triggers by angry towards my mom & im tired of allowing her fragile ego to take up anymore of my emotional well being.

Is this normal to want to avoid things, the books being an example, that trigger & resurface the emotional scars?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

They aren't likely unaware of their actions - they just don't see it as abusive. My mom thinks of the things she does as being strict, asserting her authority, expecting us to be grateful. Basically, she always thinks she is doing the right thing and that she was taking a tough-love approach. So while she's aware of everything she does - she doesn't acknowledge any of it as abusive or wrong. Whether or not she warps situations on purpose or if her brain just truly thinks that way? There's no way for me to know with that. I just know that she will change reality to suit her image.

[cubabe29]

Yah my mom is similar to what you described your mom is her thinking she is asserting her authority, strict and definitely expecting us to be grateful. I feel the urge obviously out of anger to somehow let her know I can see right through her front but I know its completely useless. I just keep replaying that type of situation where I just blow up at her if she really upsets me or even my niece (2yrs old) & my nephew (he's only 6mos) bc they don't deserve to be exposed to her narcissistic emotional abuse. However, I know I can do something now to break the cycle for them so they don't have to experience the emotional torture we endured. I understand that I can't prevent them completely from my mom but I can be there to help any way I can.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

Yeah, don't give in to the urge to blow up if you can help it. Blowing up just reinforces the notion (in my mom anyway) that she's right, she's the victim, I'm overreacting, I'm ungrateful, I'm a b****, etc etc. The only thing she learns from it is that she can use that as yet more "evidence" for what an ungrateful child I am.

Why are your nieces and nephew exposed to your mom that much?

I have no doubt that many of the emotional abusers have NO IDEA that they are doing the damage that they are.....

In my case, most of the abuse that I have dealt with was as a child (physical, mental & emotional) came from my brother and my mother. To this day - neither of them have any clue the damage that they did. Neither know that I have been put in the nuthouse (in part) due to my inability to cope with this crap..

NOW - both of them are really good, loving people (most of the time). So, I really can not "blame" them or hate them for the past. Sometimes I think it would be easier if I could hate them. But I can't. And I suppose part of this is because I know they had no idea.... and part of me tries to tell myself that I do not understand what burdens *they* were under - that led them to act the way they did.....

[growlithing]

It's interesting with my mother. Sometimes she genuinely has no idea what she is saying is highly abusive. Sometimes, she is fully aware of it, expresses feeling guilt years and years later, but then takes no responsibility for the ensuing issues. For example, my younger sister physically/emotionally abused my younger brother. While it was really going on, my mom was fully aware of it and fully aware that the reason it was going on was because she constantly compares my siblings and says my brother is smarter. She hasn't expressed guilt for that or taken actual responsibility for the problem. She will say my sister needs to get over it and continue making the same comparisons as if they have no connection to the situation.

In another situation, my mom bullied me about my weight. She would make me take my pants off and stand on a scale once a week and scream at me if I haven't lost weight. She now recognizes that it was wrong, and she expressed some form of guilt for it. However, she will not call that action abusive or say she has any role whatsoever in my current psych problems.

I really believe that people with severe NPD do not experience love or guilt or have the ability to see their actions causing others pain the way we do. They can see that maybe what they did was perhaps not the best, but whatever the good outweighs the bad and everything was done with good intentions and therefore it should have no impact on us.

[cubabe29]

Yeah, don't give in to the urge to blow up if you can help it. Blowing up just reinforces the notion (in my mom anyway) that she's right, she's the victim, I'm overreacting, I'm ungrateful, I'm a b****, etc etc. The only thing she learns from it is that she can use that as yet more "evidence" for what an ungrateful child I am.

Why are your nieces and nephew exposed to your mom that much?

My parents are less than 20 minutes from my brother and sister in law which is unfortunately how they see them often. My niece is about to be 3 in February and I think it is amazing how young children gravitate towards someone who is calm and is purely engaged in interacting with them.....rather than someone like my mom who is more like "sit down, shut up and behave." It's funny how when she's over here she either wants to hang out with me or my dad. She doesn't go out of her way to see my mom most of the time. (It reminds me of how Cesar Milan interacts with dogs and projects his calm, assertive energy).

Yah you are right to resist the urge to blow up at her bc it will once again reinforce to her or anyone else around that I'm the irrational, crazy one. I don't know how long you have realized and known this about your mom, but I just had my "aha" everything makes perfect sense more than a week ago. How long have you known about your mom? Most of the time I'm positive about creating those silent & giving her less information boundaries, but sometimes I get angry even if I see/hear her abusing someone else.

Oddly enough, I'm thankful I am living with her now bc it's forcing me to be "on emotional gaurd" everyday so once I can move out the healing process has already been in full force. If I wasn't living here, I don't know if I ever would've figured out my mom has NPD. I've always known something was not normal about her since I can remember. My brother and sister have as well but they are both married to people who have more than one of the NPD tendencies/traits. So, I'm grateful I can now be free from winning a battle once in a while but always losing the war.



Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[cubabe29]

Yah I did a week outpatient program bc of a relationship I was in but the basis of why I continued the relationship was directly related to the emotional abuse I was used to receiving from my mom. I know my mom sees me going to a psychiatrist, taking medication & seeing a therapist as a weakness and I'm inferior to her bc she has never seen a mental health professional bc she knows & can handle anything and everything. But little does she know that my primary reason for seeking professional help is 99% of her emotional abuse and how it has impacted my adult life.

I think that is what I am trying to do right now is hate her bc it does make it easier. All I need to focus on is moving forward and to continue to stay in therapy & be persistent in setting my "silent" boundaries bc me verbally implementing them is a waste of time. She doesn't know how to act now since I kindly keep to myself and keep any conversations on a unimportant topic.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

[A Red Panda]

I think I was acutely aware of my mom's behaviours by the time I was 11. I was aware of a lot of things even younger than that. It's just always been how she is and I was learning more every year that it really wasn't how everyone was. By the time I was in highschool (probably around age 16?) I finally started to figure out that it wasn't my fault.

I only read about NPD properly this summer and it was like ".... that's my mom" when I was reading that one article I posted to you. So she isn't diagnosed and I don't know if she would be diagnosed, or if she just has a LOT of strong tendencies.

[hannabee]

Here's the short list of what my mother did:

Let my father chase me down the hall with a belt (I was 6)

Didn't get me therapy after my father tried to murder her, turned the gun on himself and wound up on the front page of the SF Chronicle

Tried to kill herself twice and let my sister and I be the ones to find and save her. I was 13. No therapy after that either.

Slapped me if I said something that she didn't like.

Called me a donkey.

When I was 52 years old, she finally said to me " I guess I wasnt a very good mother" and I think she really thought I would disagree with her!!

Tough question, did she know while she did all this or did it finally occur to her when she was 76 flippin years old???????????

Sorry about your mother. The abuse did stop with me, although, thinking back I wish I would have never let her near my kids! Hugs and good luck.

[cubabe29]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I think I was acutely aware of my mom's behaviours by the time I was 11. I was aware of a lot of things even younger than that. It's just always been how she is and I was learning more every year that it really wasn't how everyone was. By the time I was in highschool (probably around age 16?) I finally started to figure out that it wasn't my fault.

I only read about NPD properly this summer and it was like ".... that's my mom" when I was reading that one article I posted to you. So she isn't diagnosed and I don't know if she would be diagnosed, or if she just has a LOT of strong tendencies.

I was somewhat aware of my moms behavior since maybe 12/13, but all I could tell was she was not normal like my friends parents & at times wishing I had my friends mom as my mom. Within the last year is when i began to notice that things were not my fault & she will blatantly lie and try to put her insecurities on my plate. Part of me being able to connect the dots was:

1) Worked for an eye doctor who is the textbook definition of someone with narcissistic personality disorder. I was the only one who wasn't fearful & intimidated by him. Most of his employees had been there for years & the only reason why I wasn't scared of him like the other 9 employees was bc of my mom. I already knew my mom was very insecure which is why she bullies & so I was able to make that connection about the Dr as well.
2) About a week ago I was telling my therapist I felt my mom's behavior is identical to my former employer's & she had described him as someone who has NPD.

Which reminds me I forgot to tell you in my first thread when you posted the link about traits of people with NPD & how you basically highlighted almost all for your mom......I had actually found the same exact list but on this website
http://theinvisiblescar.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/surviving-the-narcissistic-parent-acons-adult-children-of-narcissists

And I could literally check my mom off on each one, even to some of the examples that were used. Having read that list is why I joined this forum bc from the info I read, that no one can truly understand what you are going through & I felt alone.

I took the list in to my last therapy appt. As far as her being diagnosed by a mental health professional in her own evaluation, then no, and trying to get her to have a consultation to be diagnosed, well I'm sure a lot of you guys on this forum can relate when I say "mission impossible."

This might sound odd, but I wish she was more of having lots of NPD tendencies(rather than having NPD) like both my brother in law and sister in law bc then I would feel hopeful that overtime I could have some sort of "closer" connection with my mom. I have a closer emotional bond with both of them than her & my sister in law is going to therapy too to help her.

[TheJettSet27]

My dad has a gigantic problem with that. When he gets angry, he says horrible, TERRIBLE things. Once it's over, he doesn't remember saying any of it and he says that a lot of the time he doesn't even mean any of it.

[Seiya]

Originally Posted by growlithing

I really believe that people with severe NPD do not experience love or guilt or have the ability to see their actions causing others pain the way we do. They can see that maybe what they did was perhaps not the best, but whatever the good outweighs the bad and everything was done with good intentions and therefore it should have no impact on us.

This is true of my mother. She has trouble understanding that the way she treats her children affects them. She has read parenting books, and she is a teacher at elementary school, but she doesn't know how to treat her own daughter (me). Many times I have left the room and she would complain to my father about something I just said or did.

My father would explain to her "she acts that way because you taught her that. You are always telling her this and that. She learned that from you."
"She did??"
"Yes...."
"Oh!!!"



Cause and effect does not compute in her mind. I'm wondering if she thinks so little of herself that she thinks her actions don't matter to anyone. That's the only explanation I can think of.

[Rosondo]

Originally Posted by cubabe29

The house on fire analogy you used was such a perfect one to use. At times when my mom will lie, deny, and manipulate my dad so she can shift the blame on me even though she DOES know that I know as well she is lying, it makes me think she is a sociopath because I would NEVER do that to my child! The only time she can manipulate my dad or whoever else in my family is when I'm not there to speak for myself. Fortunately, when my dad is standing right there when she's in the wrong she obviously can't manipulate him and play the victim as easily. But whenever I'm not around and I'm confronted later on by both of them together it sucks because it's 2 against 1 then. Out of all of us, meaning my brother and sister, I'm the only one who stands up to my mom which is good in a way but bad in a way bc they keep allowing her to be her narcissistic emotionally abusive self. I know I can't feel sad about that bc that is their choice to not stand up to her. My brother, sister and I have all spoken to each other about our mom bullying us but both of them are in relationships where their significant other has some identical qualities to my mom. i can be wearing a black shirt and my mom will manipulate everyone that I am really wearing a white shirt.
Im living with my parents right now bc of my arm situation which is good and bad. It's good bc I don't know if I would've realized as soon or at all that she has NPD. The bad is she can piss me off in the fact that I recognize all of her "ammo" and there are times when I just want to say I have figured her out but I know it's beyond pointless to do that. I'm just trying to snap myself out of that anger and find therapeutic humor in her behavior, if that makes any sense????

Isn't that the worst though, when you are the only who will stand up to abuse and yet end up paying for it? So it's like either shut your mouth and go along with it or else we will kick your *** and try to overpower you. It becomes all about power. Like mom AND dad against the child. What kind of child can stand up to that and not get deeply hurt? It's inhuman!

[cubabe29]

Originally Posted by Rosondo

Isn't that the worst though, when you are the only who will stand up to abuse and yet end up paying for it? So it's like either shut your mouth and go along with it or else we will kick your *** and try to overpower you. It becomes all about power. Like mom AND dad against the child. What kind of child can stand up to that and not get deeply hurt? It's inhuman!

Yes, that is EXACTLY how I feel, it's ALWAYS 2 against 1 when my parents confront me. I know my mom always twist things when telling my dad, but the times she can't bc he is there as well when the issue happens, he'll take her side so he doesn't have to deal with her emotional abuse/wrath!! That's f***ed up....I'm your daughter! ! That's extremely hurtful sometimes it feels more hurtful than the initial abuse. I am seriously considering going to law school bc I want to help people that feel like they can't have a voice as well as knowing if the situation came up where it dealt with a legal issue and my mom thinks she knows about it, like she always does, that I can call her out on something. But I want to go to law school for the 1st reason i mentioned. As of right now, I pretty much loathe her and I'm okay with feeling that way.