[Genesis]

I don't know how to ask this, so bare with me. I saw something strange tonight and it scared me. It left me in tears and with a frightening curiousity.

I watched this movie tonight that I thought was supposed to be erotic, but turned out to be about a woman who was sexually dysfunctional and emotionally disturbed due to her father's sexual abuse on her when she was a small child. It affected her life and her marriage severely but she had no memory of it until one night with her husband, when he seemed to do everything 'right.'

I know it's just a movie and we're not supposed to believe everything we see, but this movie hit me pretty hard and I understood everything she was feeling and expressing to her therapist and her husband. I knew how she felt because I feel the same way. And what really put me over the edge was how much my life and marriage mirrored her life and marriage in the movie.

I almost feel stupid for asking this question because it was just a movie. But I feel like I have to know because I cried throughout the whole thing, just knowing how she felt and what she was going through.

But I have no memory of sexual abuse from anyone. I was "propositioned" by a cousin, but that's as far as it went and I told both my parents about it. However, I've had dreams of having sex with my dad and with an uncle that completely make me sick. But in the dream, I seem to enjoy it. I've had these dreams for years but I don't have any kind of memories of real sexual abuse.

So I guess my question is; how do you know? How do you know if you've been sexually abused, if you have no memory of it? And am I crazy for thinking this? Cause I feel like it. I've NEVER told anyone any of this before; not about my dreams, my fears, my sexual dysfunction, nothing. Please don't make fun or think I'm stupid, because I am sitting here in tears for fear people will laugh at me and call me names.

I just need answers, if there are any.

[Ozze]

Hey Genesis,
Hope today is a much better day for you. I can't say too much on whether or not you were abused because, like you said, you have no memory of anything like that.
But something just struck a cord in me when I was reading your post. Are you sure it isn't OCD? I was reading into some of the symptoms of OCD and I saw this story of a guy who when he has sex with his girlfriend, can't get the thought of his naked mother out of his head. He apparantely got incredibly freaked out by this and a lack of interest in sex ensued. That doesn't mean he was "turned on" by his mother, it just meant a disturbing thought got stuck in his head and lo and behold he obsessed about it. I can't say for sure but maybe you have some disturbing obsessions with sex!?!
From my own experience, I can relate 100% to what you are saying, except I am very much aware of the fact that I have been sexually assualted. At first I was sure it hadn't impacted on me, but now I see where things have started to go pear shaped.
Lately my own OCD has turned away from thinking disturbing violent thoughts and back towards thinking VERY disturbing and disgusting thoughts of child molestation. I too worry that I "enjoy" these fantasies and am just a sick pervert, but in the end I know it's not what I want to be and most definitely NOT what I am attracted to. But it has still had a pretty devastating effect on my own sexuality as I think all sex, regardless of age is paedophilia, even the relationship I'm in right now with my girlfriend who is 18 months older than me.
Winding up, probably research sexual OCD for yourself and see if anything relates there. Don't worry you ain't a freak, there are a lot of people out there with disturbing sexual thoughts (including me) so you are definitely not alone.
Hope this helped but more importantly I hope you're doing much better.
Cheers

[Maya]

Genesis - I was abused as a child and had absolutely no memory of it until I had been in therapy for depression, anxiety, grief (and some other stuff) for 8 months. Then I started having dreams and finally the actuality of the events and it just blurted out of me during a session with my T (thank god it was there instead of when I was alone). He has helped me a lot - but I have a long, long way to go before I can reconcile the feelings about myself - the feelings of worthlessness, etc. are normal when you are abused as a child. It is especially hard for me to talk about it because my T is male - but I also know that he is the right person for me to talk to - to get over my distrust of men. I have never trusted and been fully open with a man because of those early events in my life and now that I understand the why it is easier for me to see the patterns.
Also, remember - you may not have been abused. Just because that happened to me in a way similar to yours does not mean it happened to you. Talk it out with your T - it is extremely difficult to talk about but also extremely necessary in order to get to the truth and to heal. You are worthwhile - what happened (if it happened) was not your fault. Children should never NEVER be abused by others - no one should suffer abuse like that but it is not our fault - it is the fault of the person doing the abusing. We are victims - not villains. Please keep that in mind (I keep trying to tell myself the same thing as my T keeps telling me that - it was forced on my, it was not my choosing...)

[Wants2Fly]

Hello Genesis --

There are so many good, helpful posts here, there is little I can add. I stopped by bec. of your post on general, and I do want to add:
((((((((((Genesis)))))))))

I hope things are better for you today.

[Genesis]

Thank you for all the wonderful support. I am feeling more calm today, but no better otherwise. I've decided to call a T tomorrow and try my best to KNOW what's wrong with me, regardless. I've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and before that, with severe depression. I don't know if disorders can "change," but I think it's more severe if anything. And I really need to stop freaking out about it.

Anyway, I wish I could just take a pill that erases my past memories so I could be normal.

Thanks again.

[Maya]

Genesis - if anyone can develop such a pill I would be the first in line to take it! How wonderful to be able to forget all the bad stuff that has surfaced in my memory recently (perhaps the dream childhood I had created when I had no memory of my real childhood would have been better than the memories of the real thing that I am working through now...) What a good idea - a pill to forget the bad stuff!

[ktp]

Genesis:

I agree with Mars, we'd be fighting for first place in line to take it!

Hun, don't push yourself too hard. The memories will come if there are any and it will be when you're better able to handle it. Don't force yourself to remember anything. It could be OCD added to bipolar and definitely diagnoses can change. I've seen it several times.

I have nothing to add to all these wonderful posts but wanted to offer you:

((((((((((((GENESIS))))))))))))))))))

Take Care of yourself and I hope you start feeling better soon,
Kimberly.

[dakota]

Genesis,
Listen, no matter what you find out, good or not so good, you are obviously a strong person. So no matter what happens, you will get through it. One day at a time. AND if something did happen to you as a child, it will be no fault of yours...Keep posting and let us know how you are doing..
Susan

[Butterfly_Faerie]

I'm sorry that you were triggered by that movie. I would be too if I Saw it and I didn't have to deal with childhood abuse...but for me those types of things will make me nervous, scared.

I get alot of body memories regarding that kind of thing and it is scary. I at times had to hide my face during a scene because it bothered me so much. The movie Trapped bothered me like that and I bought it!!! Why, not sure.

Memories can be tough to deal with but the more you talk about it the more you learn to cope with it the easier it does get.

Sometimes memories will just surface, even if you do not recall it. It could be the littlest thing. But if you are having that fear and feel sort of connected to that actress then perhaps something did occur and you blocked it out.

But it may not have, just the propersition from your cousin could be enough to make you remember that etc.

Therapy will help you to deal with this kind of thing, and maybe you will find something that you don't want to know, but at least then if it is true and there is something bothering you from the past you have someone to talk too.

[SweetCrusader]

You've been given some great advice here. These people really know what they're talking about!!

I can TOTALLY understand what you're going through. I am a virgin with an INTENSE fear of sex. I feel very panicky and afraid when men start getting any where remotely near sexual with me. I feel terrified, but I don't do anything to stop them. I freeze. I hate it. I also freaked out when I had my first pelvic exam. She couldn't even finish the exam because I couldn't relax enough. Afterwards, I threw up. I posted a while back about a therapy session in which I relived getting hit by my dad. Suddenly, in my mind I saw my T get up (in reality she was still in her chair just listening to me) and come over to beat me. Then in my mind she morphed into a MAN and tried to rape me!!! I had an uncle who came on to me and seems to have fondled me while I was asleep (but if he did fondle me, I don't remember it). And I had a boss sexually harass me and "jokingly" say he was going to drug and rape me. And one guy in my highschool that put my hand on his penis and also held me WAY closer than I was comfortable dancing and used physical force to keep me there when I wouldn't stay. But that's mostly all that I've experienced, and none of it even came close to actual sexual contact.

I tell you all this because, like you, I have NO memories of sexual abuse. Still I am showing a lot of signs that it might have happened. It seems totally unfathomable to me that it did, but at the same time, I have wondered about this for a long time. I know how scary it is not to know. I just try not to think about it usually. My T says that if it happened, the memory will come back when I'm ready. It's the same for you. If it did happen, the memory will come when you're ready to handle it.

In the meantime, you really should get yourself a therapist and talk about what's going on. The sooner you develop trusting relationship with a therapist, the sooner you will be able to start resolving these issues.

Best of luck to you. I really feel for you, and I hope you get it all worked out.

((((((((((safe hugs)))))))))) if you want them

Angela

[Genesis]

From Sweet Crusader:
"I had an uncle who came on to me and seems to have fondled me while I was asleep (but if he did fondle me, I don't remember it)."

How do you know he fondled you, if you don't remember it?

The last time DH and I had sex, I had a panic attack when he did a certain thing to me. So I don't know if that is what happened, maybe that's what someone else did to me when I was a kid? I don't know, but it felt really weird and it embarrassed me for some reason.

I also don't know if that was just a coincodence due to stress or because I've been worrying about this.

I had an appt. with a therapist last week, and will see her once a week from now on. I will also see the psychiatrist there from now on, but I can't get in to see him until Nov. 30th, which was the earliest he had available.

When the therapist was doing the intake questions, I felt horrible for how many questions I answered 'Yes' to. It was embarrassing to admit to so much and have someone else know of all the problems I have.

She asked if I'd ever had a panic attack, and when I told her I recently had one during sex, she looked at me weird. She didn't say anything, but she looked at me like it surprised her and then wrote my response down and moved on to the next question. So I don't know what that was about, and I didn't care to ask her.

I'm going into this whole therapy thing almost like I don't want to talk about certain things with her. IF there is a past of sexual abuse, I'm not sure I want to know because of the feeling I get when I think about it. It's in the pit of my stomach and makes me want to vomit at the thought of the possibility. And with what my husband did during sex, I got the same feeling. I wanted to vomit, it was bad.

yuck!

[SweetCrusader]

Genesis,

I don't "know" that he fondled me, but I think he did. Warning, THIS NEXT PART MAY TRIGGER...

**TRIGGER** What happened was I was asleep on the couch and I woke up to his face 2-3 inches from mine and he was naked from the waist down. He asked me what my fantasies were and some stuff like that. I got him to go away for a while, but a few hours later again he started asking me why I sleep with a bra on (I did because I was at someone else's house on their living room couch!) and also about the marks in my shoulder from my bra (I'm very busty ). I didn't connect two and two together at that time (because I was only half awake), but I was wearing a shirt and under a blanket fully covered, so he had to have tampered at least somewhat in order to know I was wearing a bra and more so to know about the marks in my shoulders. I could be wrong about it, but I do wonder if he messed around with me before I woke up. I also do not know what woke me up or why.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that most everyone starts out therapy with a lot of the feelings that you're talking about. Nobody wants to just sit and tell a therapist everything. And nobody just automatically wants to confront this kind of stuff right away. It takes time to get ready to tackle this stuff in therapy.

(((hugs))) if you want them.

Good luck!
Angela

[Genesis]

*THIS COULD TRIGGER ALSO*

I had my best friend's boyfriend do that to me, only I wasn't sleeping. I was laying on their livingroom floor and TRYING to sleep, but it wasn't happening. Everyone else in the house (my friend, her boyfriend, and their roommate) was in their rooms.

I was facing away from their room, facing the stereo, so when I heard someone coming, I couldn't tell who it was. I didn't turn to look or anything, I figured they were going to the kitchen or something. But I felt them kneel behind me and start rubbing my back. I thought it was strange that my friend would be rubbing my back, but then I thought she might be trying to wake me up. UNTIL I felt his hand on my stomach and then my breasts. Then I KNEW it wasn't my friend, but her boyfriend!

I was so scared, I didn't know what to do. So I pretended to wake up and sat up facing him. He tried to act like nothing happened, but I immediately got up on the couch and put my blanket around me. He tried to get me back down on the floor but I wouldn't do it. Instead, when he went to the bathroom, I ran into their roommates bedroom and told him what happened.

So the roommate came out and made my friend's boyfriend go back to his room. And the roommate slept on the couch while I was on the floor. Nothing else happened, but I felt horrible!!! I felt like it was my fault and didn't tell my friend about it.

I told my mom and my boyfriend's mom, and eventually it got back to my friend. She didn't blame me and told me it had happened before with someone else. I was relieved to know it wasn't my fault and she didn't blame me, but I still felt bad because I really enjoyed spending time with both of them and he really betrayed me AND my friend!!!

I don't know why, but I've never thought of that as sexual abuse even though I was only 14 at the time, and my friend and her boyfriend were both in their 20s. I associate this with assult, but not abuse. It only happened once and he didn't penatrate or even reach that area of my body, only my breasts. So I guess that's why I never thought of it as abuse. Who knows.

[SweetCrusader]

**May Trigger** I can see why you didn't classify it as sexual abuse. But I'm sure that was a really freaky experience, though! I didn't know how to classify what happened with my uncle either. But it was pretty creepy. I think the fact that I saw him naked waist down AND that he talked all that sexual stuff, plus that he was my uncle, contributed to it. Plus the reactions my grandparents and aunt had when I told what happened were not very supportive.

But what I was trying to get at in sharing all this was just that it's possible that other things have happened, and that I have been sexually abused, because I'm showing lots of signs of it, but that these incidents are mostly the only things that I do remember- and not enough to cause the amount of problems that I have with sex. As far as I know, I have not be sexually abused, but the possibility that I have cannot be ruled out. And from what you've shared, it sounds like it's a possibility for you, too, even though you don't have any memories of abuse right now.

Am I making any sense? Is this helping at all?


Angela

[Genesis]

Yes, you make perfect sense. I just need the information and insight from those who've been there. I don't want you to think I was questioning you, I wasn't. kwim?

And I know how you feel about family not being supportive. When my cousin made that sexual comment and told me what he wanted to do to me, my dad didn't believe that he said that because I wouldn't go in front of my dad to confront my cousin. So my dad called me a liar and told me never to make up things like that.

I honestly think he just didn't want to believe it. Because I found out later that my cousin abused his youngest sisters when they were little (like toddler little). He was sick and my dad knew that and knew of what he'd done to his own sisters, yet called me a liar.

Another reason I hate my dad, but that's another thread for another time.

[SweetCrusader]

Oh I didn't think you were questioning me. It's all good! You can feel free to ask whatever.

I can't say I blame you for hating your dad. What reason would you have to make something like that up? Honestly, like we all just LOVE to admit that our family members came on to us! Sheesh! It's TOTALLY embarassing! Who would want to say it if it didn't happen? It's beyond me.

I wish I could say I've been there and found the answers, but I'm kinda still there myself. But the stuff my T said, about the answers coming when it's time and not to stress to much for now, really helped me. I thought that might help you.

I know it's so confusing. If you're anything like me, you probably feel guilty and embarassed that you would even suspect this happened. It's so strange to confront this stuff.

Angela

[Genesis]

I appreciate your help, Angela. Thank you much!!!

[dalila]

I maybe should have chimed in earlier but wasn't sure if you could hear what i might have to say. Having followed this thread down I am hopeful that I can say something helpful.

I have had weird reactions to sex and people in general as long as I could remember. I had awful dreams about being raped. I was promisous in some ways and uptight in others. I went into therapy because I was depressed and struggling with issues from my mother's abuse. I didn't recall anything but the most innocuous memories of my foster father telling what the sex organs were, I did have a vague memory of seeing him naked. I was in this home for several years -- until just before my fifth birthday.

In therapy, I found it safe to explore memories and dreams and feelings. It took a while but I have recovered memories of being sexually abused by him. It has been awful - disgusting - terrifying, but in the long run freeing. I have my emotions back and am recovering my sexuality. I am learning to like myself and trust my feelings. I have a way to go yet, but I am on my way. Be patient with yourself and with the process. Find a therapist you can trust, your mind has been protecting you so far but it sounds like you are about ready to deal with some issues. Maybe you will uncover more than you imagine maybe not. But you can do whatever it is you need to do.

dalila

Courage doesn't always roar. Sometimes courage is the little voice at the end of the day that says I'll try again tomorrow. ~Mary Anne Radmacher

[Maya]

Genesis, these are things you need to seriously discuss with your therapist - and don't every feel embarrassed about answering "yes" to questions - the questions are there so they can help you. Yes, it is the hardest thing to talk about - I felt so humiliated discussing them and ever since I have had a hard time relating to my T - worried that he thought I was sick from having this done to me as a child (even though I know deep down inside and intellecually that he respects me as a person and has the utmost concern for my wellness - I still have reservations about trusting him since we talked of this issue) - but still, it is worth talking about. You can never get over something like that without getting it out in the open and looking at it with someone trained to help you. And, as others have said, maybe it never did happen. Your T can help with your fear of it maybe happening as well. Keep being willing to talk about the "hard stuff" - it is the way for the healing to work. I know when I started my T he told me it was probably better if I did not remember what happened in my childhood - and now I know WHY. I think he may have suspected some of this type of stuff based on what I already remembered and on my behavior and problems. Thank god (whoever you think of him/her) that I have who I consider to be the world's greatest T who is willing to see me with my HMO insurance.

[Butterfly_Faerie]

<font color="blue">I've had many many situations like that, about 8 not including my ex. I remember this one time... ****TRIGGER**** that this guy I knew was really hammered and he was at my house for a weekend party me and my sister were throwing. For 2 days he tried to get with me, and what not grabbing at me, touching me and then one night he when I was asleep I woke up and he was there standing over my bed watching me sleep, and he was only in a towel!!! Freaked me right out, the night prior he made me really uncomfortable so my friend stayed over that night to kinda watch over me. That was on experience. Another one went on for a long time. He tried to get with my and my twin at the same time, and then I told him that was it and told my sister to go with him. But he didn't like that I turned him down so he constantly was on me, trying to get on top of me, whispers nasty stuff in my hear, trying to kiss me, grabbing me etc. Even though I kept telling him no that it wasn't going to happen he kept at it, even after I push him away numerous times. Even his cousin told him to back off and leave me alone the last time I Saw him. He even did stuff to me in front of my sister. .... I remember him grabbing at me in the back seat when he was driving and I tried to scoot to the far end of the car, trying to get out of reach but there was only so far I could go. That night at my boat he still tried to push me down, get on top of me, tried to constantly kiss me, turning off the lights etc. The next day I went up to the office of the marina (a good friend of mine is the manager) and I just remember just staying up there all moring because I knew he was on the boat. But for some reason I went against my gut and went back to the boat to go and get something even though I knew it was a bad idea. When he say me he continued to tell me that he wanted me to stay, that he just wanted to talk to me. I told him no I had to go and when I was leaving my cabin up the stairs he grabbed onto my foot, and everything went off in my nervous system. I kicked my leg free and didn't return to my boat until I saw his car leave.

I think a part of me is afraid to work because I had a bad job experience with 3 guys sexually harassing me etc. One of them who worked in the kitchen always grabbed my butt when I went through the kitchen.. one point I was in the pool room collecting garbage and was about to go through the kitchen to dump it in there and he was there by one of the washroom. He grabbed my shirt and got me in the bathroom and was trying to shut the door, but I kept it open somehow, kept trying to kissing me etc, and again alarms went off, and despite him pulling at my shirt to keep me there I broke through after telling him that wasn't going to happen. I quit shortly after that and I loved that job..I do blame myself for this one because the 3 of them kept on harassing me and bothering me to see "my breasts" and one day after work since they bothered me so much I said fine because I didn't want them to bother me, and the third one harassed me enough that I showed him too, and thinking that after that they'd back off but they didn't.

I've written about all the experiences before on here. But 9 guys through the years of 1996-2001 there always something.

Anyways there is more experiences like that, but this is enough. It gets hard to write sometimes. </font>

[Maya]

Yes, it is hard to write about - hard to remember - hard to live through. I asked my T if there is something wrong with me - something that makes guys think I'm available. Things like that happen all the time to me. I don't understand. But I guess it is just the guys and not me, at least according to my T. He said it is probably because I am attractive and friendly and that is why guys come on to me. I don't like it but as I get older it is happening less and less (I am 57 now so hopefully it will stop completely soon.)

[emwell]

I am going to make note of this thread. You asked questions that I have thought about for years. I don't have the energy to read all of the replies right now. I will definitely be back.

Deb

[bethannaTN]

Hi, Genesis,
I found that as I could define certain things, then I could remember certain things. Most were things that I never really 'forgot' but they were not things that I thought about - ever. When I began to be able to define actions and abuses that happened with a more mature mind, then the memories had understanding and I could grasp them. Before there was no understanding, so the grasping was fruitless so my mind put it away for later. For some things it was as simple as an 'oh, that's what it was.' Other things were deeply disturbing. . .not upsetting - disturbing. They presented a whole slew of confused quandrums that I still could not grasp in any way that made any sense. Some of the memories are weird because I went 'somewhere else' a lot. It took me years - a little at a time to understand what was really happening. There are still a lot of gaps in my memory - years missing. Even as a young adult there are long gaps. I saw a therapist about 15 years ago, and I was stressing over what I don't remember, she just said 'you will when you are ready, don't sweat it. If you aren't ready, it's good that you don't remember.' She's right. Everything I've remembered, I did so when I was ready, and I was ok. I survived it. I was better for it. I understood it, and I was able to begin to heal from it. I had the tools to heal when I was ready. Her advice on the matter was a gift. I still have a few years that I don't remember that I'm curious about. When I'm ready, I'll find those memories, sort through them and I will be ok.

I also understand what Ozzie is talking about about being sensitive to other's pain. There are movies that tear me to pieces and I haven't had that type of abuse. But I know what abuse is, and I feel profound empathy for the characters.

(((((((Genesis))))))))
Beth

[Butterfly_Faerie]

<font color="purple">There is so much stuff I don't remember, and it is extremely frustrating because I know stuff happened I wrote it down and what not.. so I know it occured but I can't picture it. I'd rather deal with the memories then not have some of them. </font>

[Maya]

My T told me that when we are able to handle our past bad memories they will come to us. I have only remembered very few memories from my childhood before age 12 - and he was right, they came when I was able to deal with them in T with him. One time I told him how upset I was that I had many years with no memory and he replied that it was probably best that I not remember. When I am ready, the memories would come and he would help me deal with them - which he had. I have learned not to worry about what I can't remember - it does not do any good to worry about them. They will either return or they won't. And not all the memories are bad - some of them are good memories but since they happened when bad things were happening around the same time they got buried with the rest. Sometimes they return in dreams which I then relate to my T who helps me understand them. What in the world would we (I) do without my T?