What is the point of coping?

Wow. Exact same. I feel for you.

I didn't do substance abuse but I did other distractions... I feel like I can't survive without that atm. And yeah, I dropped the toxic relationships but I've just been in pain since then.

Well, I have been thinking about it. And there's no promise made to us when we drop toxic relationships, is there? It was something we were used to even if it was evil. I guess it takes some time to reorient to healthier habits. Don't despair. We are making progress!

Maybe, I just don't see progress yet. I figured it's as someone else said, nothing fills the void of what is left behind. I can't even make myself focus on finding options for finding something good/enjoyable and I lack the energy to do important tasks.

Well, of course I understand, as, after all, I am the one who started this thread~

I have gotten lots of good feedback including some private messaging. And I have also done some deep reflection.

My advice (to you and me) is when you have a little bit of energy try to spend it productively.

It's just that I don't have enough energy yet (?) to counter the extreme stress of attempting to do so.

I guess sometimes I naturally get a little bit of energy yes but that's so little, it's so far behind what I'd like to do.

And so I get increasingly more and more deeply bothered by that. And that might make things even harder. Bad catch-22-ish cycle I suppose.

Let me know if you don't want me to talk about this though, I'm not sure if you have this part of the problem too.

This we definitely share though: "It seems like it should as now I live like a Stoic. But I feel sad beyond words." And when I think of going back to stoic mode (I used to be very detached and I decided that was not good either), it doesn't seem like a solution either, just seems like an even worse direction somehow... feels like I'd be losing sight of certain goals. Important goals actually, without those I see not much point in life.

Hmm this... (I didn't read all posts yet sorry)

So, this... I might find a goal for now in breaking this mental addiction thingy I have. It's not your typical addiction but it does get in the way of doing much else all that much. But also because it acts as distraction against having to experience the incredible negative stress/emotionality that I'd otherwise have... Uh like I tried to stay away from it yesterday and it was a terrible few hours and then when I got back to it I was instantly detached from the actual world and feeling good that way.

I said it's not your typical addiction. It's not addiction to food or alcohol or whatever. It's a weird mental thing. But yeah, I'd like to work on getting rid of it fully. Reading your post was good somehow, remembering that I have moments of the same determination. But then I run out of energy against that stress stuff, I go back to the detachment with the addiction and then it (that feeling determination) is gone...

PS: do let me know if you don't want me talk about my issues here. I just wondered if it helps you hearing about stuff from someone who's got similar experiences/is going through very similar things.

I do understand mental addictions. For instance, I believe that suicidal ideation (thoughts about suicide) can be a mental addiction, and there are some studies out there to support this.

Thank you for talking about your issues. I hope others will come forward and respond to what you wrote. It was very honest, very direct, and very, very brave of you to discuss your personal issues.

Do you have a therapist? It can be helpful to talk with a professional. And CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) can be very effective in breaking mental addictions. I used this last year to great advantage.

This thread was really about the emptiness that remains after one gives up on negative coping. That's about it. I was in a kind of bad space when I started this thread, but now I am feeling much better.

Take care.

I'm glad you are feeling much better. I agree with you about mental addictions or obsessive thoughts and about the emptiness that remains. When you first posted this thread I was also having the same kind of thought... what is the point of coping, which for me means just getting through the day vs. coping meaning having a productive, enjoyable, fruitful day.

I also think my depression, or specifically the repetitive thought patterns, has the flavour of a mental addiction more so than really a mood. I wonder if my low energy also has that flavour as it is also a mental thing, not just physical. Once I can get myself motivated I can usually get something done. The problem is to get started and not be self-defeating every step of the way.

Yes, I agree with you, te. Maybe others would not...but having followed the CBT model with professional support...it seems possible, I think, to reverse depression on one's own without medication. Well, that is my hope! It has been my hope for three long years, especially since I realized I have become somewhat treatment resistant to conventional methods i.e. medication, and counseling.

There are some who would argue depression is biological and one needs medication. However, not all mental health professionals believe this to be true. For instance, in the case of borderline personality disorder depression, Dr. Marsha Linehan believes that medication and hospitalization are not the correct therapy, but rather, learning coping skills is the right therapy, and new behavioral skills are necessary to break out of a sort of mental prison. My therapist of last year pointed out that all actions cause biological change. Getting up off the couch and running around the block causes brain change!

Unfortunately, this is extremely difficult work. Not just running around the block, but changing one's mental state-of-mind. I was mentally (and physically) tired when I wrote this thread. It is tiring work to grow stronger mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually.

Maybe talking about it here (and whining, too, a bit ) helped me a lot and for that I am grateful to Psych Central members and their great peer support.

I agree with everything you posted here, te. Let's keep up the work of progressing along the path. Change is not easy. But we can support one another as we do the hard work.

Exactly. I don't just want to get through the day...and I can't. Probably that's precisely the reason why I can't.

I don't simply have depression, I have some very weird emotional dysregulation affecting both positive and negative feelings in various ways.

How do you get started, and what kind of self-defeating things were you referring to?

Thanks.

As for mental addiction: uh, I thought I shut it down but I realize now that it just found another outlet to itself. It's an addiction about a goal that's seemingly unachievable... So my mind tries to find a way to "imagine" it can achieve it somehow... and that's my mental addiction. Sorry if that didn't make sense.

I have tried so many therapists. No one ever offered practical usable steps to me. Maybe I'm just a difficult case.

Glad you are feeling better. I'm not sure what this emptiness is like but I'm like, what's the point of just doing things neatly? I mean, I do want to do that but I'm just not able to... no real motivation.
Is that it?

Hm, I was never responsive to medication or to counseling.

I actually relatively easily shut down negative emotions and negative thinking. It just doesn't help with the above issue.

I mean, I guess I mostly do it with the "mental addiction"... that addiction used to give me hope actually. Now it's just kind of something I still keep I guess, or I wouldn't have many places to hide from ****?

I'm also able to directly work through negative feelings, but it's hard work to always try and find some constructive step ahead and thus see hope etc.

Easier on the mind to just do withdrawing. But then no motivation etc.

I still don't know after 6 years as to what I actually need to change. Oh well now this was negative thinking lol but also a fact. I did change a few things btw, of course, but idk what else is to be done... I never know, really. Then in retrospect I can see this or that thing is actually good. But actually none of it has stuck enough to achieve real change overall beyond a very limited scope...

Tbh none of the therapists helped me figure out even those changes. What's so damn hard in my case about getting direct and practical help?

OK I think I do need to stop dumping my thoughts here...

Back on topic.

First....

I think many here would say a therapist should help you figure out what changes you need to make. For this, I think, a therapist with training in CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is best...OR...

You can use self-help books and workbooks. Do it on your own.

In a way your posts have enlightened me about my situation. There are times to self-reflect, and times to set goals, and activate. I have cleared away a lot of toxic stuff, and now the emptiness is a vacuum waiting to be filled.

No matter what...kind of mental ruminations we have...we can still learn to over-ride them with action. It WILL feel uncomfortable if we have anxiety and have hidden away...but it is actually good to stay with the anxiety while doing the action. This is outlined in both CBT workbooks, and DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) workbooks.

I really can't work with any therapist who doesn't do CBT because I am goal oriented. It sounds like you are, too. You sound like you want to activate but feel stuck. I think this is a common problem.

Maybe when coping gets "stale" it is a sign that one needs to "just get on with it," if that makes sense.

But for you, first, it sounds like you need some clarification and that is something a counselor or therapist is supposed to help you attain.

...OR...

you can start your own thread with some specific questions and just throw them out and see what kind of response you get...

Thanks, I've been at this for years with books etc too. I just bought two on Amazon now that seem to be really specific to some of my issues, I hope they are good (it's RO DBT, the books are brand new editions). Supposedly the previous therapist is trained in CBT but...

Glad if you found them enlightening in any way. I have goals, having trouble with getting activated, have had this problem for years but also still trying to clear away toxic stuff. It's all happening at once...

I wish I had anxiety. I have something way worse.

Yep!

Sorry, what is meant by the phrasing "just get on with it"? (I'm not a native speaker of English actually)

Thanks, I already did that actually. So I'll definitely keep it short in your thread / keep on topic.

Well, this thread has answered my question about what is the point of coping.

I realized the emptiness is not a bad thing...just space to fill with new experiences.

I have anxiety and that stops me. Then it turns into depression. For me the anxiety always comes first.

We should all remember, too, that sometimes grief is disguised as depression. If we are holding on to something...or some things...expectations...memories...abandonment...etc. - this is grief rising to the top and being expelled.

Oh, it is a tough journey. But I am feeling more optimistic. This thread really, really has helped me and I want to thank every single person who contributed to this thread...especially for your bravery in sharing. Which is also all about... caring.

I wasn't being critical in telling you to start you own thread. I only meant...you have a lot of material...so why not start a thread? It has nothing to do with staying on topic. Everything here has been pretty topical.

"get on with it" means...activate!

I am not sure what you have that is "much worse" than anxiety (for me anxiety is hell on earth) but at some point Life just begs us to be participants...

and it is okay, I think, to do all of it at once. So, "get on with it" just means...move into action mode without thinking too much about it.

Meditation actually helps with this but one needs proper instruction...

That's interesting about grief. I might have that, hm.

I wish you luck on the tough journey

I didn't think you were being critical. It was totally reasonable, your style and idea.

OK I see. I'll figure it out one day I hope (that is, how to get past the block for it).

I like your wording.

I'm sure your anxiety is very bad like you say, hell on earth, just to me personally it's a preference that I'd rather have actual feelings like e.g. anxiety than the physical stress reactions I have instead that I can't deal with. (But I don't want to go off topic here. I have a thread on this in this same forum section if you want to see.)

Hey DechanDawa,

I often feel when I read your posts that we are kindred spirits. I agree with everything you wrote.

One point comes to mind. I don't think depression is one thing even though we use the same word to describe moods in different conditions, in different people, and even in the same person over time.

There are different kinds of depression. I'm thinking in particular of that recent gene expressions study of 700 brains that found that although schizophrenia and bipolar overlap considerably, there is little overlap with major depression and either bipolar or schizophrenia. Indeed there is more overlap of these two conditions with autism spectrum disorder than with major depression.

The way my depression is manifesting these days is that I want to hide from the world and lie on my couch all day. This is a literal statement. I fear that my immediate future will be one miserable death spiral and I am seemingly waiting for another piece of bad news to drop. I just don't want to face the lonely cold world that I live in. This is a mental prison like what you write about for borderline.

Sometimes I wish that I had never asked for that chest xray after I quit smoking and discovered I had lung cancer. I would most likely be dead already if it weren't for that. But then I remember about hope. I don't actually wish to be dead. That whole stream of thought is rather sobering and helps me stay grounded.

I used to have hope for a better future. When i am depressed my future seems bleak and indeed hopeless. And I think that no one will like me or want me in their lives and my loneliness will only get worse or I'll make bad choices and bring the wrong people into my life.

I have to make myself get up of the couch and go out even when I don't want to. That is one thing I learned from CBT a few years ago that not only do feelings affect behavior but behavior effects feelings too.

What would happen if you decided to do more...even as you are now? My mother had cancer off and on for 20 years from age 40 to 60 when she died. She was very productive. She pushed for joy. This didn't mean she did not have depression. She did. She just did not let it run her life.

I think how my mother did this is when she felt better she would do something. She didn't waste a positive moment.

That is how depression is and how you describe it, isn't it? It isn't a static mindset. It ebbs and flows. Sometimes I feel we do make depression into a sort of god that we must always bow down to...like saying we can't do this or that because we are depressed.

I do know what you mean about the lung cancer, though. I was a smoker and I won't have a test to see if I am in the clear. It could very well be my time is limited. I feel guilty wasting time.

We can't really know what we are capable of until we try.

Insofar as letting the wrong kind of people into your life. Well, you are in control of that. You are probably in a lot more control than you believe, te.

We all need friends who believe in us even when we don't believe in ourselves.

I have been thinking lately that my family and old friend kind of keep me down. For whatever reasons (of their own) they have low expectations of me...which I then fulfill. So now I am starting to feel glad they aren't anywhere near me. I have a chance to start over...with raised expectations.

You survived a terrible physical ordeal. Please be kind to yourself. Please don't bang your head against the wall, te. You don't deserve that. You deserve respect for what you have been through.

I would say my paranoid, grandiose psychoses function in a similar way because in it I am an important person and what I do or don't do actually matters, whereas normally my life these days seems quite meaningless. It's an escape from reality. What kind of negative emotionality do you experience that you are distracting yourself from with the mental addiction?

You know, maybe this is the root of my depression beside the energy problem... not being satisfied with just getting through the day. I also have a weird emotional dysregulation all the way round.

How do I get started. Well it is just grim determination to not pay attention to all the thoughts of how uncomfortable I will be, even going to the grocery store can become an insurmountable obstacle at times. But today I met a friend for lunch, took a short walk with her, went shopping and came home.
That counts as a full day for me nowadays.

The emptiness for me is a complete lack of interest in doing anything other than hiding from the world. I'm not sure what you mean by doing things neatly but did want to add that I also appreciate your thoughtful comments in this thread.

I totally agree that the depressive feelings are just feelings. I let them be there for a while but then I have enough... And I'm able to say "***** off" to the feelings. Except when they are overwhelming, then I just try to wait until they pass to be at least a bit less absolute. How I say "***** off" to them is by telling myself that whatever (if there is a concrete thing) is causing me to feel down now isn't worth that much to feel so negative about it beyond a point. I'm not able to do this to all types of negative feelings but I'm able to say this to the depressive type of negative feelings (if this made sense). Then they are gone for a while before they come back again.

Your mom's story is inspiring.

It made me think a bit and I think a problem of mine is that I hardly derive joy out of doing things. Or it could help in positively building up myself/my life, yeah... I mean, I do get to feel good for a second or two when I get something done, but then I am back to emotionally neutral.

Luckily it's more likely that you are in the clear than that you are not. Still, if one day you are able to somehow manage the anxiety (?) about it, I really hope you go get checked out. Maybe someone else could go with you? Sorry, I don't know if that's helpful.

I'd like to add, we are also in control of going out and finding new people who treat us better. This is something I need to remind myself of. (Easier for me to cut off someone who treated me wrong than to go and find new people.)

I actually want to ask: what's the most effective way of letting a friend know that I believe in them? I have exactly one friend now, and I want to let her know. I've tried before. I'd like to do this better though. (She's not in a good place.)

Maybe I should just directly tell her that I believe in her?

Were they directly telling you that they have low expectations of you?

And yeah, if they made you feel bad and it was not accidental (and they would not discuss the issue with you to solve it), good that you are no longer around them.

This is so nice of you to say, actually. I know you were writing this to someone else, but still feels good to read this. Thanks!

I actually feel for you with this. A part of me also still just wants to just lie down in bed I think, though I've managed to push this part back a lot so I'm at least able to get up pretty well.

(Maybe this is useful somehow, so I'll note it here: someone did help here actually, with getting up in the morning. They helped with keeping a watch on me, I'd report to them when I got up etc. And I felt like they cared by trying to help like this. And that helped a lot.)

You sound like pretty low yeah. (Same for me so I know what it is like... The difference is only that my thoughts are about a bit different things, but they are similarly strongly negative/seem like very difficult issues.)

CBT style thinking should help work through thoughts like this... But it can take some time to think it through in that constructive way. At least for me. So I think CBT on its own isn't enough, for some reason... Some sort of emotional management must also be needed, but that's where things often get confusing to me.

I wish you good luck! (Sorry, I know this post of yours needs more than just wishing good luck but I'm not finding the right words right now...)

Yes, this is a good point, that's how your grandiose psychotic stuff functions IMO, yeah. It could be a long process to redirect your attitude to finding meaning in actual life again, I think. But you can start on it.

What kind of negative emotionality uhh... Extreme emotional pain that I'm not even able to fully feel, I first feel it physically (I'm alexithymic BTW), it's stuff like a stab in my stomach, and it's so stressful that I can only feel it for a second before my brain has to shut it down. Maybe it's not a good idea to dwell in it anyway.

I feel that way when it comes to a certain topic. But in general too, I often just don't feel at all comfortable when I try to look outside my head. And that's a bit mysterious to me because I'm not even thinking about anything specifically, and yet I feel quite uncomfortable.

I also often have similar physical and strongly stressful feelings when I try to look at - not even start, just look at! and focus on! - a task I, or a part of me, want to do. This is the part I am really stuck at currently. Right now I'm not experiencing such feelings in response to the idea of doing work, but I wasted 3 days on this until last night.

Yeah, I definitely want more than just getting through the day. Do you know what more do you want? This is important, to be aware of that first.

I do, and I know the sensible thing to do would be incorporate steps into my day towards working all those things too. But at that point I suddenly feel very mentally tired and unable to think about what steps to do. So that's another crucial point that I'd need to overcome. Because otherwise I will remain stuck in place.

I'm actually doing some concrete steps for it sometimes BTW. When I get lucky and am able to focus and think about it a bit and decide on a step. It's just rare. Then I execute that step when I get lucky and am able to...

What is your weird emotional dysregulation like if I can ask?

Ah, yeah, randomly even small tasks get to seem very uncomfortable to focus on. I like your approach. If I am able to get to this state where I am able to focus on grim determination, then I'm all set too actually. Getting to that state is the tricky thing for me.

You all are inspiring me now... Maybe I should write down the most important thoughts that help me get into that state and then every time I'm in the bad place where I just react with those physical (and sometimes emotional) stress reactions, I can pull up that paper and look at it... Because I'm otherwise sure to forget to think of this stuff, for a long time...

Thank you!

And maybe you want to try this too? I don't know if it's a helpful suggestion, e.g. if you don't even get to forget like I do.

Hmm I don't feel it as emptiness, I just feel it as wanting to be comfortable and resting. It's all quite a physical feeling again.

By doing things neatly, I meant that I do the tasks I want to do according to plan. (And yeah, when I write down this sentence... maybe the emptiness you mention, is lurking in the background, as a real feeling now?! Hmm. I mean, me imagining my doing this stuff neatly, I get to feel that's not enough... there is something missing very much.)

And really thanks for your kind lines here.

Getting back on topic...if anyone has comments regarding their reasons for coping...please post. I think I personally found my answer in replies made by Mote. Thank you Soulful Motie!

Well reasons for coping...

1. Family? my mother is battling cancer and is losing her battle but she is coping because she always has something to look forward to that often pertains to kids/grandkids like “so and so is graduating oh I need to be well by this and that date because so and so is getting married etc I better don’t die before that”. That keeps her going. So kids, grandkids...Even when people have no kids... still some family. Good friend of mine has no kids, but she is close to her brother’s family and it’s always something to look forward to (visit with him etc). Actually my other good friend has no kids either but she is very close to her niece so it’s always something to look forward to with her niece and her events.

2. Life itself is a good reason to cope.
What else is there? Not going to have another life. My family lost whole ton of people in Holocaust, some survived concentration camp but most didn’t. My grandparents survived but lost their parents (my great grandparents) and all their siblings (grandpa had 7 sisters, none made it). Don’t even know how they coped but their motto was “we survived, so might as well enjoy it now”. They always partied a lot. Danced, always had people over and stuff like that.

3. Finding things to look forward to. Little things. Or big events. Plan things ahead of time and look forward to. That often elevates one’s mood.

Coping is the management of the emotions and their intensity so that your MI does not get worse and so that you can live a drama free life and be a positive influence in your own life and the those around you. And more importantly, we all need to learn to cope so that we can have fulfilling lives, pay rent/mortgage, hold down a job, have social support system.... well in summary we need to cope to survive and hopefully thrive.