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  #1  
Old Dec 22, 2009, 11:43 PM
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Is the struggle even worth it anymore? I think I'm beyond saving at this point... I'm a lost cause...!
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"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus

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  #2  
Old Dec 23, 2009, 12:20 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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What is happening now that is making you feel hopeless?
  #3  
Old Dec 23, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Woah there Whoswho!!
Im new here, but I've already seen the help you have offered to others on this site! So youve helped out other people a lot... What's going on with yourself?

None of us are a lost cause...if you heard that your closest friend or family member was feeling that bad, what would you be saying to them now?

Dont forget - if youre feeling hopeless - please contact someone to discuss things properly, check out the resources here at psychcentral.com/resources/Suicide_and_Crisis
(sorry the link dont work but Im not above my fist 10 posts yet)

post back soon.

Matt c
  #4  
Old Dec 23, 2009, 06:01 PM
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It sounds dumb to say it this way... For a while I was thinking that I was getting better, getting over things. But I just had this realization come smack me in the face--no, I'm not any better, I'm only getting worse. I don't know, maybe standing in a pile of your own vomit brings on these dumb realizations. You know, "ignorance is bliss," and I kind of liked ignoring these things.

Hmmm... should I just cut my losses? Finish this last semester of school and drop off the face of the planet? Just accept that my life is destined to be this way and stop trying to fight it?

I wonder... if my life's really worth fixing. What am I able to contribute to the world? I can't seem to write anything anymore... can't play my flute anymore... can't even get enough concentration to read anymore. It's much better to just sit around and waste my time--time that other people actually deserve and struggle for, time that is given to me as opposed to someone else. So I'm just a little melodramatic, right? Overreacting? Probably. If anything... If all I could do was channel this negative energy into something productive...I'd be satisfied with that, really. Maybe not happy, but... at least it's something.

So... I'm sorry for blowing a gasket there, and I appreciate the comments... Maybe I'm just in a tight spot and need a little extra help. Although this blows my "self-sufficiency" motto out the window. Oh well...
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Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #5  
Old Dec 24, 2009, 07:57 AM
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I guess 'blowing a gasket' is what these forums are here to help us with. We all need that pressure valve releasing occasionally! But it does sound like your in a deep depression at the moment as well as struggling with eating problems. I know the two go hand in hand so much of the time, but it can help to get some support in dealing with depression specifically...do you use the other boards on psychcentral?
And I guess thats the problem with hoping that we can be 'self-sufficient' - its can be really painful to admit/discover that there really is no such thing! We all need help in our own ways....(I know I do! but thats another story)....
Hope you find the extra help your needing at the moment Whoswho...it wont always be like this, and Im sure oneday, and hopefully sooner rather than later, you'll realise that you are putting your energies into something productive and that sense of satisfaction will come to you,

Whats the old saying?..."This too will pass"

best wishes, Matt c
  #6  
Old Dec 24, 2009, 09:53 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
I can't seem to write anything anymore... can't play my flute anymore... can't even get enough concentration to read anymore.
Eating disorders affect the mind and therefore performance. When you are feeling better your performance will start to return to what you are used to.

Quote:
It's much better to just sit around and waste my time--time that other people actually deserve and struggle for, time that is given to me as opposed to someone else.
Eating disorders often make one feel ashamed, and the shame has its own negative effects.

Quote:
Maybe I'm just in a tight spot and need a little extra help. Although this blows my "self-sufficiency" motto out the window.
Do you tend toward perfectionism? It can then be especially hard to admit that one may need help, and to ask for that help.

Quote:
What am I able to contribute to the world?
You want to contribute but, right now,don't see how you can. You know, kids often can't see their path towards making a contribution. When one isn't doing as well as one would want and expect, it can be even harder to see or even believe that there is a path.

It takes time.

Quote:
But I just had this realization come smack me in the face--no, I'm not any better, I'm only getting worse.
Setbacks are discouraging, especially large or frequent ones. They can undermine your self-image or your plan to succeed, your visualization of success.

Unfortunately, progress usually is two steps forward, one step back; one step forward, two steps back; one step forward. There are always setbacks. Nevertheless, there can still be progress, even after bad events. Even when you feel hopeless, there can be progress.

Whether or not there is progress at the moment, I and others here are interested and want to listen. Thank you for letting us know how you are; please continue to post on how you are doing.
  #7  
Old Dec 24, 2009, 02:21 PM
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Bill3: Perfectionism is a big problem of mine. I can't get things done because I can't get them perfect, so I'll throw them away or won't turn things in... Generally, my work is "hit and miss"; sometimes I'll write the best essay, and other times it's like a "C" or lower. I've noticed that's it's pretty strange--it's not like I'm putting "less" effort into things, they just don't come out very well when I'm in a slump (or I have no energy for any effort). Besides, kids that get an "A" on a paper generally get an "A" on all their papers, right? Sometimes I'll do better than everyone, and other times my work and efficiency is mediocre at best... And during a slump, that's when the "do it perfectly, or don't do it at all" mentality really sets in.

And... maybe 17 years isn't much of a life to reflect on (I know it's not), but... I'd like something. Maybe' I'm just impatient, or jealous, because I'm no child prodigy, that's for sure!

Matt C: I guess I can use other boards on PC because I know I have problems with bipolar... but... my eating is giving me a great deal of distress and making things a lot worse... Haha, yesterday I ate about a dozen corn muffins, 4 pieces of toast with butter & jam, a giant apple fritter, and probably 2 cups of fried rice in a sitting. It's pretty... disgusting. I don't know, is it the depression that affects my eating, or my eating that affects my depression? Maybe they're one in the same. But, sheesh, I can't stop this worrying. I worry and worry all day about food (I kept myself in my room for 3 hours just to keep myself away from the kitchen) and then at night I'll B/P, often more than once. I even had dreams about eating food (maybe it's more of a nightmare, because I was so nervous when I awoke that I'd just eaten an entire German Chocolate Cake, and I was very relieved after realizing it was only a dream). It's pretty ridiculous. I'm lower than dirt, and too embarrassed to leave the house... I remember taking gym class, I'd always change in a bathroom stall, and wear long pants and a long-sleeve shirt of sweatshirt... Always taking a "F" because I was too nervous to get up in front of everyone and embarrass myself horribly... I'm really glad I'm not in gym anymore, because that was a miserable class.

With all that said, though, I must admit I'm doing a little better today... Last night I was strangely content for no apparent reason at all--I'm not really content anymore, but not as bad as I was when I started this thread... so... I don't know! I actually had the energy to get dressed instead of sulking in my pajamas all day, so that's a plus, I suppose. I just have to get through today without binging, and I think I'll be... stable, at least.
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  #8  
Old Dec 24, 2009, 05:23 PM
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And during a slump, that's when the "do it perfectly, or don't do it at all" mentality really sets in.
What is a slump like for you? How are your feelings different during a slump?

Quote:
Perfectionism is a big problem of mine.
Is your perfectionism self-oriented: do you have self-imposed standards that may be unrealistic? And/or is it oriented toward others: do you go to great lengths to appear to be without defects or weaknesses in front of others? (Was that part of the problem in gym: you felt you would appear inadequate in front of the entire class?)

Bingeing often has a practical purpose, which is to take the mind off of other problems, to help cope in the short-run. Do you find that bingeing helps numb your feelings or distract you from them?

In particular, it sounds like you feel that you have not accomplished or are not accomplishing enough in your life; you aren't perfect or close enough to perfection. Does bingeing help you cope with these feelings of imperfection?

****

I'm glad to hear that today was a little better, that you feel a little bit of contentment.
  #9  
Old Dec 26, 2009, 11:12 PM
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Hello again, it's me...

Well, I'm not really sure where I'm at right now. Spent a day and a half fasting, and undid that in about 2 stupid hours! Grrr.... So I'm really frustrated, angry... but no purging, so I guess that's good? I don't know. Meh.

And Bill3 had enough insight to ask why I binge... This is sort of strange to admit... but I always have this incredible sense of emptiness and this idea that I am "inherently evil." You know, just one of those people "born" evil, there's not even a real reason for it. When I eat... I can actually visualize this hole, and I'm literally stuffing it all up with food. If you're feelin full, you're feelin something, right?

Yeah, you're feeling like crap.

God, I didn't eat anything today until dinner, and mom just had to bake a cake! No, it's still my fault because no one forced me to eat it. I was feeling pretty good until now; I feel like I'm crashing, can't focus, can't get a grip... I wonder why the only time I feel normal is when I'm not eating at all, which is obviously abnormal? Doesn't make sense!

Well, maybe I should spend less time rambling and actually answering some questions, right? Ummm.... my perfectionism is directed at myself for the most part. But I'm not a neat freak at all, which is kinda weird. It's mostly just how I perform... I'll never be the prettiest, or the most athletic, but I always hoped to be the smartest... which is absolutely absurd. Gym is just really horrible for me because I'm out of my element... and I can't stand exercising anymore; I'm terribly embarrassed to exercise even at home if anyone's around (and lately, there's always someone is around!). Haha... I always tell myself I'm "too fat to exercise." It's already difficult to accept your own weakness, but it's even worse if everyone else gets to see it too, you know? When I write, I don't show anyone; when I draw I keep things hidden. I don't want people criticizing me, telling me what a bad job I did. I'm always worried that I'm doing things the wrong way. And... I hate asking questions because it makes me feel dumb. Asking for help makes me feel needy and useless, but... I feel like I'm at the end of my rope, and I'm going to end up where I was 5 years ago at my lowest point...

Haha, I need to get myself to stop crying while I type this, otherwise my family will worry about me!
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  #10  
Old Dec 26, 2009, 11:25 PM
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Is your family aware?
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"The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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  #11  
Old Dec 29, 2009, 02:13 AM
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Is there a connection between the emptiness and feeling inherently evil? For example: do you see yourself as empty and therefore inherently evil?

So it can seem like the emptiness is being filled with food. Is food always on your mind because your weaknesses, the emptiness are always on your mind?

You mentioned that you fasted and then binged. Perhaps breaking a fast makes you feel especially inadequate and therefore triggers a binge?

Quote:
I wonder why the only time I feel normal is when I'm not eating at all, which is obviously abnormal
Perhaps fasting brings numbness and thereby suppresses some unwelcome, "abnormal" feelings.

Quote:
It's already difficult to accept your own weakness, but it's even worse if everyone else gets to see it too, you know?
It seems that your perfectionism is both for yourself and for appearances in front of others. You feel that your writing and drawing are inadequate, and showing them to others will top that off by embarrassing you in front of them. Is it the same when asking for help? You feel inadequate to need help, and ashamed to ask for it.

What happened five years ago, at your "lowest point"?
  #12  
Old Dec 29, 2009, 07:37 PM
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Well, it's been a long week... and a lot of gaining weight, so I don't know... I must say, even with all my binging, my body's quite resilient and I've only gained 5lbs net. But my weight fluctuates so much, with fasting and binging all the time, so I don't know.

Goodness, you'd think that there wouldn't be so much fuss over 20 pounds! But who knows, I'd probably want to lose more even if I got to a "healthy" weight (now my BMI says I'm overweight because I gained 5lbs. ). But I think it was Sunday night/Monday morning I sort of realized that it's impossible for me. Everyone in my family's obese, so considering that I'm about 5 pounds overweight is pretty good I guess... Although that won't last long because, you know, the binging...

Bill3: I'd never really connected the two ideas before, but maybe they're related. I just always see myself as this soulless machine, this cold, calculating thing. Usually, I'm perfectly content staying out of people's lives, or just observing things. And... I'm just evil--purely evil--because I'm not worth caring about no matter what I do. I know it has to do with my oldest brother and my parents... It's just a long and messy story.

Oh, at my lowest point... Um, I was 240lbs. then, which is embarrassing to admit... but thankfully hardly anyone knows that since my family's moved so much and I cut all ties with my childhood "friends." But when I was 12 I tried killing myself a few times and I told my math teacher that my brother was molesting me. Like she believed me--she didn't even report it. Anyways, I told my mom that I confided in my math teacher, she got upset, took me to a pdoc who put me on Prozac, got a professional T I visited every Monday for 6 months and had to check in with the school counselor 2x a week. It's kind of hard to remember because I was so mentally checked out. But I remember that my pdoc changed my Prozac capsules to pills, and didn't bother to mention I only needed to take one instead of 2, so I OD'ed on Prozac and really flipped out. She (and my mom) yelled at me, accused me of trying to get buzzed (off Prozac? which isn't that really dangerous to give to a 12 year old anyway?) so I stopped taking my meds and haven't taken any since, haven't really sought out any help again... And my school counselor totally humiliated and lied to me, so I stopped seeing her. Besides, obviously my problem wasn't the abuse, but it was because I was fat, according to my T and pdoc. I can't even count how many times doctors told me I was just too fat (I broke my wrist once, and my doctor said "well, the bigger they are the harder they fall!" But I actually have a calcium deficiency according to my dentist.) But after all this mess, I lost a lot of weight, a little more than 80lbs. in 4 months, so that was good. I think everyone sort of figured that the depression was just a "stage" I went though which is what I wanted them to think. The people that got involved didn't help things at all, I helped myself by losing weight. And I think the next 3 years I had a 4.0 GPA and was doing quite a bit better. But I think I gained like, 20 lbs. over these years, and that's when I started freaking out about my weight again... And since then, I've pretty much been stuck at the same weight, becoming complacent, and gaining weight back... and freaking out and losing it again. Plus, I've grown increasingly dissatisfied with how I look and my weight, even though this (the weight I was last week!) had been my "goal" weight back when I was 12.

Sorry that was so long, but... it's just a long story. I guess I'm just wound-up today to spend so much time writing that.
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  #13  
Old Dec 30, 2009, 01:26 AM
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Thank you for sharing so much of your story.

I'm so sorry to learn of your sexual abuse. I'm so sorry that you had to experience the excruciating pain and humiliation that accompanies sexual abuse.

To try to think a little bit further about feeling empty and feeling evil:

You feel emptiness means being a "cold, calculating thing", a "soulless machine". In other words, you feel inhuman, devoid of emotion.

You sense that your feelings of being inherently evil go back to sexual abuse by your brother. It sounds like you felt so worthless and were so unprotected at that time that you eventually decided that you are inherently "not worth caring about" no matter what you do. And you still feel that way.

Victims of sexual abuse often feel devoid of feelings, often feel empty. When having feelings means having excruciating pain, pain that adults in the environment won't or can't stop, then people often find ways not to have feelings, to bury feelings. Avoiding feelings, burying feelings is normal under such painful, shattering, humiliating circumstances.

Quote:
It's just a long and messy story.
I am interested in hearing more of that story, if you wish to speak more about it.

With regard to your weight: it sounds like your current weight was, for some time, within a range that you could accept. Lately, though, the range that you can accept has begun to change. As a result, you are beginning to feel newly enhanced shame and depression, which is expressing itself in multiplied incidents of disordered eating but also seems to have roots in the sexual abuse.

What is your thinking about the above?
  #14  
Old Jan 04, 2010, 10:08 PM
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I know it's been a while since I've posted... but I'm quite embarrassed coming back and asking for help.

Right now, I'm eating very little... hiding food and lying about it... but I haven't been purging as much and started putting more effort into exercise. Although, in the past I've abused exercise... so I guess I'll just have to be careful and see where it goes...

There was a story on Yahoo! today about a teenager who struggles between a full-ride scholarship to Harvard and leaving behind his family. You can actually read the story here. But god, I feel like such a screw up--I was offered a full-ride scholarship too, but just didn't put in the effort to make anything out of it... And I look back at my life--the last 4 years in particular--and it's just a life-time of laziness. Besides, I can't even manage to write a short essay for some dinky liberal arts college in Idaho--there's no way I'd make it in a place like Harvard.

Well, anyway, there's my daily ramble. It's not like I've got anyone else to ramble to, besides the internet. Did I mention that I've been too afraid to leave the house for almost 3 weeks now? I don't remember. There's just a lot of pent-up anxiety, and I don't know why, but it just all decided to come up at once and for no particular reason. And there's really no reason. Aren't people all over the world abused--beaten, raped, tortured far worse than I? (I would say my case is very mild, considering.) Besides, that all ended about 14 months ago (when my brother moved out). I don't even think I was this screwed up when my dad was in the hospital and I had to ditch class to take him to therapy and commute over an hour just to drive to town (for therapy and school). But now, now that everything's OK and we found a good deal to rent a small house (instead of a tiny apartment) and my brother moved out, now's the time I lose my marbles. I'm the first to admit that I've never been really "chipper" and "happy," but I don't even know what I am anymore, I'm just an emotional car wreck, and just as things start to look up I crash back down again.

Maybe I'll talk about what happened with my brother, parents and I... it's not like I've never told anyone about it before... actually, I'd told pretty much everyone I knew at the time... But when so many people ignore you, after a while you start to question if anything really happened, and that's where I am right now... especially now that my brother supposedly turned his life around, yet still hasn't admitted anything. So... whatever. Maybe it's all in my head, and I'm a lot more sick than I realize. But what was I meaning to say? Oh, yeah. Maybe I'll talk about it in my next post, because I'm still trying to decide how to say it--formalizing the words into coherent ideas--while convincing myself it wasn't just some delusion, and it actually happened, and I still deserve justice.
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Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #15  
Old Jan 05, 2010, 12:49 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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I know it's been a while since I've posted... but I'm quite embarrassed coming back and asking for help.
I am glad that you posted; I've missed hearing from you.

You feel embarrassed to talk here because you feel that you should be able to handle things on your own?

Quote:
Right now, I'm eating very little... hiding food and lying about it... but I haven't been purging as much and started putting more effort into exercise. Although, in the past I've abused exercise... so I guess I'll just have to be careful and see where it goes...
Does limiting your eating and abusing exercise help control or limit the pain you are feeling?

Quote:
But god, I feel like such a screw up--I was offered a full-ride scholarship too, but just didn't put in the effort to make anything out of it... And I look back at my life--the last 4 years in particular--and it's just a life-time of laziness.
Depression and eating disorders often manifest themselves in an inability to function at one's normal level.

Quote:
Besides, I can't even manage to write a short essay for some dinky liberal arts college in Idaho--there's no way I'd make it in a place like Harvard.
Are you saying that you are in college now? And that you got a full-ride scholarship? Or are you taking a class at a local college?

Quote:
Well, anyway, there's my daily ramble. It's not like I've got anyone else to ramble to, besides the internet.
I am glad that I and others here can be available to listen.

Quote:
Did I mention that I've been too afraid to leave the house for almost 3 weeks now? I don't remember.
No, I don't believe so. Thanks for letting us know. Has your family expressed concern or wondered about that? What do you fear might happen if you go out?

Quote:
There's just a lot of pent-up anxiety, and I don't know why, but it just all decided to come up at once and for no particular reason.
What are you feeling anxious about?

Quote:
And there's really no reason. Aren't people all over the world abused--beaten, raped, tortured far worse than I? (I would say my case is very mild, considering.)
Any sexual abuse is devastating, demoralizing, undermining, horrifying. Others may have had worse experiences, but I expect that your pain was and is still excruciating. I am so very sorry. I hope that you will be able to speak more about it, as you mention below.

Quote:
Besides, that all ended about 14 months ago (when my brother moved out).
The effects of the abuse--such as the feelings of worthlessness, the overwhelming shame, the desperate feelings of helplessness when no one would listen--can continue on, if untreated, even after the abuse has ended.

If you are about 18, then you were experiencing sexual abuse at age 16 or 17, and, it would seem, you endured abuse from your own brother for a long time, perhaps many years. How terribly you have suffered; I am so sorry.

Quote:
I don't even think I was this screwed up when my dad was in the hospital and I had to ditch class to take him to therapy and commute over an hour just to drive to town (for therapy and school). But now, now that everything's OK and we found a good deal to rent a small house (instead of a tiny apartment) and my brother moved out, now's the time I lose my marbles.
Perhaps now you feel a little safer, a little bit freer and so it's harder and harder to suppress buried feelings. A good therapist could help you understand this.

Quote:
Maybe I'll talk about what happened with my brother, parents and I... it's not like I've never told anyone about it before... actually, I'd told pretty much everyone I knew at the time... But when so many people ignore you, after a while you start to question if anything really happened, and that's where I am right now...
We will listen.

Quote:
Maybe I'll talk about it in my next post, because I'm still trying to decide how to say it--formalizing the words into coherent ideas--while convincing myself it wasn't just some delusion, and it actually happened, and I still deserve justice.
Part of justice is being heard. We will hear you.

Quote:
especially now that my brother supposedly turned his life around, yet still hasn't admitted anything.
You do deserve justice. Perhaps you already know what you need from your brother in order to obtain it. Perhaps you will learn that over time.

I hope that you will be able to speak more about the abuse. Until then, though, we will still be here to hear whatever you do feel able to say.
Thanks for this!
whoswho
  #16  
Old Jan 05, 2010, 03:38 AM
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I ended up taking a nap earlier today, so now I probably won't sleep tonight. Bah! My sleep schedule is so messed up; I'd always go to bed by 12 on weekends and wake up at 8--ever since I started Middle School--but now I'm so nocturnal. Oh well...

And thanks, Bill3, for responding so quickly.

I'll just hurry up and post this, because I'll just have to say it sooner or later.

I'm the youngest of 3 kids. I was 10 when the abuse started, and my oldest brother was 14 (and our middle brother was 12). This happened for about 2 months, and I told my parents right away (my older friends were just going through sex-ed, I remember going to their house and they would excitedly talk about everything they learned, including some stuff on different types of sexual abuse). These initial incidents I don't question, because when I was 10 I didn't have this crippling sense of shame that I do now, so I told my parents what happened to the exact detail and they seemed quite horrified. They sternly warned my brother and told him they'd take him to Juvenile Hall if he pulled that again.

So that stopped for a while. But my brother had--I don't know, an addiction I guess--to violent porn (gang-bang, rape, and child porn/incest). And he would download it off our computer all the time and, of course, I was always the one to find it. He would print off pictures and hide them in my room--literally stuffed them in my mattress. For a long time, I was very confused why he would hide his porn in my room--until I was informed by my "middle" brother (I'll call him J. for now) that he was going through my clothes and sheets to masturbate. I later found out that he would read through my diary and stuff I wrote and try to blackmail me with it. I don't know, it was just really weird and messed up. So, again, J. and I confronted our dad about it. (because this porn thing had been going on for a couple years by now). My dad's solution to this problem was to install locks on my bedroom door and on the door to the office. But my oldest brother was in charge of installing the locks! I've always thought it was strange that my dad expected him to lock himself out, but whatever.

So anyway, my brother's escapades into my room pretty much lasted for 6 years, and so did the child porn. I can't even count the number of arguments between my dad and I about the porn. Maybe I'm just off my rocker, but I honestly think my brother's porn screwed me up just as badly as anything else he did. I remember listening to the radio one day when I was about 14 or 15, and there was this news story about a man who had downloaded child porn onto a computer at a hotel--the next person to stay found the images and contacted the police, who eventually arrested the perpetrator. And I just remember sitting there, and being so angry at my parents for not informing me that this was a crime, that there were laws about this, that it's wrong and he should be punished for his actions. After this, I really threatened to go to the police to turn him in, but my parents got so upset--they said they'd go to jail because the computer was registered to them.

Finally, one day during my sophomore year in high school, my brother (lord knows why) decided to send me a text message about how he fantasized raping me. It was... uh, pretty explicit. When I came home that day, I yelled at my mom and showed her the message. Of course, she showed it to dad, they had a "talk" and, long story short, my brother ended up deleting the message from my phone but was otherwise unfazed. I was so pissed, I even bought software to retrieve the message but he had erased it from my SIM card. I had wanted to use that message as evidence in case I ever had to go to the police if my parents decided to pussyfoot around the issue (because they never really taken responsibility for what happened). My mom always told me how she was sexually abused by her mom's boyfriend, but I always wondered why she was so complacent about her own son who abused J. and me for 6 years (my brothers would fight and cut each other with kitchen knives, and J. informed me recently that he was also molested by our oldest brother, but there was only a single incident. However, J. has largely forgiven our brother, and I haven't).

They tried moving him out (after I threatened to live with a friend if this garbage didn't stop) but he wouldn't work or pay his bills--my parents completely supported him financially, and he practically lived at home anyways. We could hardly afford our own mortgage, but my parents still bought him groceries, paid his rent, car payment, etc. I told them to break off financial ties because he's 20 years old and can take care of himself, but they didn't listen. When my dad had his stroke in July of '08, my mom actually moved him back into the house (despite my protests) so he could "help us financially." My brother put on this stupid act, as if he has some minute amount of human compassion, and my mom bought it. So he lived with us for a few months--didn't work, of course, and spent all his money on automotive parts for his car (I found receipts, and he literally spent $2,000 at the store, but he never could pay his $400 rent). He also acted like he was really getting his life together, and I almost believed it. However, it was also about this time that he began molesting me again (before and after my dad's stroke), but this time I didn't even bother to tell my parents about it. It'd only happened a handful of times in the 6 years between, excluding when I was 10 and 16 when there were more concentrated occurrences. I also began to find more porn cropping up on our computer--which my mom promised she'd kick him out if we found anything. But she didn't. What made him finally move out for good was that we lost our house--a blessing in disguise--and we had to move out of the area into a tiny, cheap apartment. He didn't want to leave the area, so he moved out and lived with his best friend, while we moved to a town 30 miles away... and that's the end of that.

That's pretty much the story... and... it's weird, but I wonder if it really merits an "abuse" label. A lot of it was just threats and talk... Although my "friends" didn't seem to care so much that he was doing this to me, and when they wanted to be friends with him I broke it off... stopped all communication with them... but the sad thing is that I still haven't recovered from that, from losing my friends I'd been born and raised with... I let them walk all over me for years, but when they wanted to be friends with my brother, well--! I had this over-inflated self-esteem after losing weight, and I figured I'd make new friends... but I was wrong, and I learned that I deserve being trampled on...!
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Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #17  
Old Jan 05, 2010, 04:22 AM
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While I'm at it, I might as well address some of your questions.

Quote:
You feel embarrassed to talk here because you feel that you should be able to handle things on your own?
Absolutely. I can't rely on others to solve my problems, because they always let me down. Being self-sufficient is a very important quality to me... my parent's are financially irresponsible, and I know that makes me freak out about finances all the time and being "thrifty." I hate wasting things--it's actually really hard for me to throw away food and clothes. Because I tend to hoard things, I tend to not buy things very often.

Quote:
Does limiting your eating and abusing exercise help control or limit the pain you are feeling?
To some degree. I actually find that not eating stabilizes my mood, sort of like my SI did. After a binge, if I'm not able to purge, I crash and burn really bad, get suicidal... I'm out of control, and I don't like that, because it lets people into what I'm thinking.

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Are you saying that you are in college now? And that you got a full-ride scholarship? Or are you taking a class at a local college?
No, I'm a high school senior. I know, it's confusing... I was offered a full-ride scholarship based on test scores and GPA and class ranking and all that jazz. But I wasn't selected as a finalist for the scholarship (it's through a non-profit organization called Questbridge, and they give full scholarships to several different schools, including Harvard, Princeton, Washington and Lee, MIT, etc.) although some schools offered me their own individual scholarships and admission separate from this scholarship application. This would require essays, teacher recommendations, and the like, just like any other application. I didn't apply because 1) if I wasn't accepted through Questbridge, I felt pretty much like a failure, and I don't deserve to attend anyway, and 2) my mom doesn't want me to move "far away" from home. My mom really wants me to go to a school nearby--a liberal arts college, and they're offering some good scholarships--so I've been working on the application essay for... a month now? and still haven't finished it. And the applications for a college like Harvard require multiple essays and teacher recommendations (I'm so afraid of asking my teachers, because I always feel like they hate me so much).

So... sorry, I hope this clarifies things. Ha, I'm freaking out over college and haven't even gotten there yet!

Quote:
Has your family expressed concern or wondered about that? What do you fear might happen if you go out?
Nope. I've always been a recluse... or at least for the past few years... but even I think it's pretty bad if I can't go get the mail or start my car or buy food at the store...! I used to go out occasionally--just to a movie with friends or something, but I only went out with friends once all last year. I just don't want to go out because I don't want people to see me. Even though I go out rarely, my parents don't really like it when I go out... (it has to do with their church, and I had a big falling out with it that we're still arguing about--but they want me to associate only with people that belong to this church, because everyone else is supposedly a "bad influence." I think that's a pretty extreme point of view, and it's not like my friends are drug-dealer prostitutes! People inside this church claim to be so spiritual, but they're just like everyone else and it seems hypocritical to me--at least people outside don't claim to be the most spiritual people out there. They're just real and honest.) I'm pretty convinced that my mom expects me and my brother (referred to as J. in previous post) to live at home for the rest of our lives.

Quote:
What are you feeling anxious about?
Food and my weight. I don't want people to see what a fat monster I am. People used to invite me out, but I'd always end up canceling at the last minute... I'd be too nervous, just, I don't know, just being somewhere where there's people I don't know makes me nervous. Also, I hate asking my parents permission to go out, because half the time they say "no" or lecture me about it. Or they yell at me when I come home. Or they just make you feel really guilty about it. But I don't want to go out and do something embarrassing, and I'm pretty sure everything I do is embarrassing, right down to the way I walk. I don't want people to size me up, but I feel like they're judging me all the time. It's irrational to think people are always watching you, but I honestly feel like they are! That's why I'm always closing the blinds at home--which I think is the only thing my parents have noticed.

I'll put that paragraph into list form:
I'm anxious because...
  • I'm afraid of doing/saying something to humiliate/embarrass myself
  • I want to avoid confrontation with my parents
  • I'm nervous around new people
  • I don't want people to judge me
  • I'm paranoid
  • It's difficult to stay in control in public
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Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #18  
Old Jan 05, 2010, 09:32 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Dear whoswho,

Thank you so much for speaking. You are a courageous young woman.

I ache to think about what you have endured--the humiliating, degrading, seemingly endless violation of your mind, your personal space, your journal, even your clothing and your bedding. The enervating uncertainty of what he might do next, given his intentional desecration of your most private space with horrifying images of violence, gang bangs, rape, child pornography, and incest. The utter helplessness, the overwhelming sense of shame and worthlessness of facing these most humiliating violations every day, for years, and knowing that your own parents would not protect you. The shock and horror of the explicit rape fantasy text message.

Words fail me: I am so very sorry.

Quote:
and... it's weird, but I wonder if it really merits an "abuse" label.
It most certainly merits a "sexual abuse" label. For example:

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Sexual abuse is any time that a child is engaged in a sexual situation with an older person. It can include actual physical contact, such as fondling or rape, but it also includes making a child watch sexual acts or pornography, using a child in any aspect of the production of pornography, or making a child look at an adult's genitals.
http://www.findcounseling.com/journa...ual-abuse.html

Quote:
my brother had--I don't know, an addiction I guess--to violent porn ... and, of course, I was always the one to find it. ... I was very confused why he would hide his porn in my room--until I was informed by my "middle" brother (I'll call him J. for now) that he was going through my clothes and sheets to masturbate. I later found out that he would read through my diary and stuff I wrote and try to blackmail me with it. I don't know, it was just really weird and messed up.
There is no doubt that your brother is mentally ill and/or has addictions. However, that in no way excuses his intentional and ongoing psychological assaults on you, assaults that he no doubt knew were utterly wrong and inexcusable.

Here is a guess as to his true motivation, please let me know your thoughts: you obviously are highly intelligent, no doubt successful in school (at least before his abuse). Did and do he and his achievements seem inferior to yours? Would he feel himself inferior to you? Might he resent you?

Susan Brownmiller's pathbreaking book Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape said:

Quote:
rape is not a crime of irrational, impulsive, uncontrollable lust, but is a deliberate, hostile, violent act of degradation and possession on the part of a would-be conqueror, designed to intimidate and inspire fear
.

Correct me if I am wrong: I would expect that your brother's feelings of inferiority created desires to bring you down, desires that he systematically tried to gratify over many years.

I want to respond to more in your message, but unfortunately I must go for now. I will write more tonight.

Before I go, though, I want to say how much I admire you and respect you for your courage and the strength of your endurance.
  #19  
Old Jan 06, 2010, 12:35 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
So that stopped for a while....I honestly think my brother's porn screwed me up just as badly as anything else he did....However, it was also about this time that he began molesting me again (before and after my dad's stroke), but this time I didn't even bother to tell my parents about it. It'd only happened a handful of times in the 6 years between, excluding when I was 10 and 16 when there were more concentrated occurrences.
When I had to leave this morning, I planned to go back tonight and reread what you had written about physical abuse. Now that I am looking at this topic more closely, it seems that I did not nearly appreciate the extent of physical abuse that you apparently also have experienced. If I am understanding you correctly, you experienced physical abuse in a concentrated way at ages 10 and 16. Between those ages, you still experienced physical abuse--less frequently, perhaps, but still often enough that you disclosed it to your math teacher at age 12--and learned that school-based professionals would not bring you help or justice either. Your "friends", also, did worse than nothing--they befriended the abuser.

Then, around the time of your dad's stroke, June or July 2008, your brother again began to molest you, until your family moved in about November 2008 and your brother stayed behind. Perhaps your father's incapacity emboldened your brother. I guess that you were 17 at that time. It sounds like you didn't bother to tell your parents about much of the physical abuse, since you had reason to feel sure that they would do nothing about it--and, of course, you were providing intense care to your father, and no doubt worrying about him, while at the same time having to deal with your brother's molestation.

I just cannot grasp the entirety of the pain, the suffering, the feelings of debasement, demoralization and abandonment that you have endured. I am so terribly sorry. I want to say to everyone involved that what your brother did to you was wrong and evil, completely wrong and evil. That you never deserved that treatment, any of it, and that you deserve justice. I think that speaking the truth about the evil you experienced is an important step toward weakening its grasp on you, toward attacking the intense, overwhelming sense of shame that you feel.

I would expect that your depression, disordered eating, low self-esteem, agoraphobia, lack of initiative, inability to complete applications or inability to work up to your abilities, overwhelming shame, anxiety, paranoia, sense of worthlessness--most if not all of the problems you have mentioned--are rooted in the sexual abuse. Many evils can grow from one evil root.

I wish that there were a way for you to get therapy from someone experienced in the field of sexual abuse, to work to repair the damage. At a minimum, I'd like to suggest that you call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE(4673) or use the National Sexual Assault Online Hotline, http://apps.rainn.org/ohl-bridge/, where you can connect live to a trained support person online. Both of these are services of RAINN (Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network), www.rainn.org. The people there can knowledgeably listen and understand.

Realize also that at most colleges there is a counseling center that can be helpful.

Quote:
I'm pretty convinced that my mom expects me and my brother (referred to as J. in previous post) to live at home for the rest of our lives.
I believe that another obstacle to your recovery and growth is a parental expectation that you must not experience freedom to associate with others, to go to an appropriate college, to begin to move away to fully your own life. What is the point of working, completing applications, having friends, etc., if you can't benefit from the fruit of your work?

I can and do say that you are blameless and innocent and good, that you don't deserve shame and embarrassment. However, I expect that, due to the abuse, you can't, right now, believe or accept such remarks. But please consider this: If what you have experienced happened to another young woman, someone you know or are friends with, I believe that you would not blame her. I believe that you would see her as innocent and good and worthy of respect and love. As a place to start, please remember that other young woman.
  #20  
Old Jan 06, 2010, 04:02 PM
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I almost don't even know what to say. I've been repeating myself for many years--I've told people about what happened, and no one has ever really believed me or took it seriously. But I think the worst part was that my parents never took it seriously or understood the situation like I did. They always told me that I was "overreacting" and that I would never understand because I'm not a parent. It helps me to know that, at the very least, I'm validated at being angry.

And... I think I'll try some counseling at college...

Quote:
There is no doubt that your brother is mentally ill and/or has addictions. However, that in no way excuses his intentional and ongoing psychological assaults on you, assaults that he no doubt knew were utterly wrong and inexcusable.

Here is a guess as to his true motivation, please let me know your thoughts: you obviously are highly intelligent, no doubt successful in school (at least before his abuse). Did and do he and his achievements seem inferior to yours? Would he feel himself inferior to you? Might he resent you?
I thought this was interesting, because I never really put any thought into his possible motive. What I do know is that he was really angry. I don't know what he was angry about, but he was furious and had difficulty expressing his anger. Because... before all this happened, we were both good friends. But here's and interesting thing to note: my oldest brother was actually adopted, whereas J. and I are biological to my parents. However, he was adopted as soon as he was born, (my parents took him home at 3 days old) and it's not like my parents sprang this information on him. He doesn't really have contact with his biological parents though. So... I'd never really seen him as being "adopted" or different because I'd known him my whole life. (People are actually surprised that he is adopted because he has similar genetic traits to the rest of the family--blond hair with blue/green eyes.) But this could be a source of anger for him, compounded with F.A.S. (born addicted to alcohol) he has a predisposition to anger problems...

But as for the idea that he resents me... I don't know, but he did spend an awful lot of time mocking me. Besides, J. is practically a genius, but I tend to do better in school because I have more drive. But if J. actually applied himself, he could easily surpass me intellectually. So maybe he resents us... but he also knows that he's much more successful in social situations and makes friends easier than us. It's sort of funny--if all three of us were combined into a single person, we might actually form a fully functional human being...!

As for the cause of his anger... there's two things that come to mind. First, he had a friend that was into the same sort of stuff--who actually introduced him to it (the obvious answer). Second, about two years before this happened, my family went through a bad bankruptcy, lost our house (my dad had planned and built it himself), were homeless for a few weeks and ended up moving to like, 4 different houses in one year. So that was pretty stressful, to say the least. And to this day, my parents refuse to talk about what happened because it "puts too much stress on their marriage." (My dad wrote a letter about his side of the story when I was about 13-14 and he pretty much blames the entire incident on my mom.) But again, I was in 2nd grade and don't remember that much--whereas my brothers were older (in 4th and 5th grade, respectively) so it had a larger impact on their life? I'm not really sure.

That's really all I can come up with for now.
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  #21  
Old Jan 07, 2010, 01:30 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
It helps me to know that, at the very least, I'm validated at being angry.
Good. I want to help in any way that I can.

Quote:
And... I think I'll try some counseling at college...
I'm sorry, I think that I spoke a little too quickly here. Most colleges do indeed have counseling centers and the staff there will counsel students. However, colleges often limit their counseling for students. If a student wants to meet for more than a certain number of sessions, the counselors often refer the student to someone off campus.

With regard to RAINN or other counseling ideas: I have two things in mind. First: I accept and encourage that you are competent to make your own choices about whether or not to seek counseling through RAINN or somewhere locally. Second: I want to encourage you, in making that decision, to listen to yourself carefully, to be kind and honest with yourself, to keep in mind that you have suffered extended, grievous mistreatment.

Quote:
What I do know is that he was really angry. I don't know what he was angry about, but he was furious and had difficulty expressing his anger.
The facts that your brother has a different genetic background, as well as FAS, are suggestive. FAS, which can be quite harmful, is discussed in some detail in wikipedia. I understand that a number of addictive behaviors have a strong genetic basis, though I do not know specifically about pornography.

I think that the causes of his anger are of interest, though, because thinking about them dispassionately inevitably reveals that his actions were shameful and wrong. For example, an addiction to pornography and images of violence need not and must not entail the humiliating imposition of those images into the mind and private spaces of one's younger sister. Nor can anger over any aspect of one's life ever justify or explain the systematic, seemingly endless mocking and sexual abuse of one's younger sister.

He, not you, had problems that were not treated or controlled properly. He, not you, behaved shamefully. People were wrong to abandon you, to disregard and overlook your complaints and earnest entreaties for help, while protecting him and downplaying the significance of his actions. Your pain, embarrassment, shame arose extrinsically, not intrinsically.

Quote:
They always told me that I was "overreacting" and that I would never understand because I'm not a parent.
I'd like to say two things about your parents' role.

First: We have a daughter who, like you , is our youngest, and we have several sons. Our sons could never ever in their remotest dreams imagine getting away with doing anything sexually abusive or otherwise patently evil to our daughter. It was completely wrong to expect you to endure that, and it was mistaken to think that making you endure that was actually benefiting your brother. It wasn't.

On the other hand, here is something that took me a long time to understand, and may help you in understanding your parents. First, a little background. My mother was a narcissist and an alcoholic. Her narcissism and alcohol abuse caused many many problems in my childhood. I was an only child, and I was abused emotionally (not sexually). It took me many years to overcome the resulting problems, and in fact some of them I still have with me.

I came to realize, though, that in her own way, my mother loved me. Her love was like a stunted, diseased tree that can nevertheless still offer some modest shade. She did many wrong things to me and regarding me, but she still loved me, perhaps as much as she was capable of love, and meant well for me. Our family life, then, was a kind of tragedy, in which her flaws made it impossible for me to be close to her. When I think of her now, it is not with love, but it is with a degree of understanding.
  #22  
Old Jan 07, 2010, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
However, colleges often limit their counseling for students.
Sorry, I meant that when I go to college, I can look into counseling there because my high school doesn't offer any counseling... haha, darn internet text and it's misunderstandings! But I should probably look into some counseling now... but I don't know, I don't really want my parents involved in all that. Is there anything that provides anonymity for minors?

As it stands right now, my oldest brother is their little angel whereas I'm the "spoiled" and "self-centered" brat. Seriously! My mom's talking about me behind my back to her friends again. I seriously wonder how she "spoiled" me considering that my family income is at the poverty line. I've been trying to land part-time work to help finances around the house (and finally did at my school) but, uh, you know, I'm still self-centered (she only works part-time, and J., who is 19, doesn't work at all!). They aren't giving me a penny for college tuition, but she says that I'm "entitled." Entitled to what, exactly???

I wish she would bring up any issues she has with me to my face instead of just making up lies about me. She's very angry that I want to move out and can't seem to understand why I'd ever want to leave. She even told me that she expects me to come visit every weekend when I'm in college. I think it's funny how she pretends that she's helped me through this college application process when, in reality, she showed absolutely no interest in my schoolwork for all these years. The only thing she cares about is if I go to a local college and live at home.

I feel stupid for having even talked to her about any of this. She obviously hasn't heard a single thing I've said.

But... your right. I just need to try and understand where my parents are coming from. I think I've been acting out more than usual lately just because I strongly resent my oldest brother for turning his life around... That's so terrible, isn't it? It kinda is... I should be glad that he's "matured," even if I have difficulty believing it. Although, now I'm the "black sheep" of the family. But deep down, I can see that my parents care for me and only want what's best for their kids...

I think something I need to learn is that I shouldn't be so upset if my parents act "in character," even if it hurts me. They have their inner-demons, and I have mine, too...
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Bill3
  #23  
Old Jan 07, 2010, 10:16 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
But I should probably look into some counseling now... but I don't know, I don't really want my parents involved in all that. Is there anything that provides anonymity for minors?
I'm sorry that I don't know about anything anonymity for minors. They might know or have some ideas at RAINN though.

Quote:
As it stands right now, my oldest brother is their little angel whereas I'm the "spoiled" and "self-centered" brat. Seriously! My mom's talking about me behind my back to her friends again.
I can certainly see why you would resent, indeed be furious about, the situation that you describe. Can you say more about your mom talking about you behind your back?

Quote:
I've been trying to land part-time work to help finances around the house (and finally did at my school)
Hey, good for you! Congratulations!

I've been meaning to ask about your fears of going out. You are going to school, right? How are you doing otherwise with these fears?

Quote:
but, uh, you know, I'm still self-centered (she only works part-time, and J., who is 19, doesn't work at all!).
I'm glad that you can say these things here. You are fed up with the seeming preferential treatment that the boys get, and with the lack of appreciation for your contributions. Do you feel that your family takes you for granted?

Quote:
I wish she would bring up any issues she has with me to my face instead of just making up lies about me.
What is she saying?

Quote:
She's very angry that I want to move out and can't seem to understand why I'd ever want to leave.
Some of this "comes with the territory", if you will. Parents often have trouble "releasing" kids. It sounds like you feel that she is going overboard though.

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She even told me that she expects me to come visit every weekend when I'm in college.
Hey, look on the bright side--she at least realizes the strong possibility that you won't be living at home!

Quote:
I think it's funny how she pretends that she's helped me through this college application process when, in reality, she showed absolutely no interest in my schoolwork for all these years. The only thing she cares about is if I go to a local college and live at home.
You strongly resent the way she is treating you and viewing your college process. What are the chances of having a reasonable discussion of your feelings about these things (again?) with her?

Quote:
I feel stupid for having even talked to her about any of this. She obviously hasn't heard a single thing I've said.
Maybe you just ansered my question. when you say "any of this", do you mean college or do you mean the abuse?

Quote:
But... your right. I just need to try and understand where my parents are coming from. I think I've been acting out more than usual lately just because I strongly resent my oldest brother for turning his life around... That's so terrible, isn't it? It kinda is...
I might have mentioned that I listen on a crisis/suicide hotline. I've heard from a number of adult women that a brother abused them sexually and went on to a successful, prestigious life as a doctor, etc. while they were left with overwhelming feelings of shame, feelings of abandonment, failure and underachievement. The brothers still refuses to apologize or "take the blame for your failures", as one brother put it, and the surviving parents did not, and still do not, help the abused women. The women deeply resent the brothers as well as their success in life, and I think that is normal and understandable. It is execrable when a sexual abuser finds success and support while the victim gets little or nothing.

Quote:
I think something I need to learn is that I shouldn't be so upset if my parents act "in character," even if it hurts me. They have their inner-demons, ...
I would put it a little differently, tell me what you think: I think that it is ok to be upset, very upset. I think that emotions are normal and largely beyond one's control, especially emotions arising from trauma such as sexual abuse. As I see it, the question is: what happens with those emotions? Can one learn to live with them? Can one learn to dissipate them in healthy ways--such as with a therapist, online, in a journal, through various previously thought out ways to self-soothe (listening to music, exercise, etc.: I could write more about this if that would help you)? Or must those emotions find expression in harmful ways, such as crime, depression, substance abuse, disordered eating, self-injury, suicidal ideation?

In my own case, for example, I am still hurt and disgusted about the way my mother acted. But I've found ways--such as volunteering, learning about therapy, playing an instrument, kindness to others--to be able to accept those feelings and indeed put them to good use in trying to help others. And, over time, those feelings have lessened, and healing has occurred.

Quote:
and I have mine, too
Are there other burdens on your mind and heart that you could share here? Do you feel shame, embarrassment, self-loathing over anything else that you want to reveal but feel too ashamed to say? If so, I am and will be still ready to listen and to give you empathy and unconditional acceptance.
  #24  
Old Jan 07, 2010, 10:40 AM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
I don't really want my parents involved in all that.

I'm sorry that I don't know about anything anonymity for minors.
Well, I do have one thought about it. If you were to have counseling, your parents would perhaps know that you were having it and the expectation should be that your discussions with your therapist are private and not to be shared with your parents.

If you were to go in this direction, I would suggest that right up front you reach an understanding with the therapist as to what, if anything beyond any signs of immediate danger to you or others, he/she would consider revealing to your parents.
  #25  
Old Jan 08, 2010, 12:33 AM
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Haha, I just finished writing a big, long rant to answer all your questions... I'm just so angry right now--maybe I should wait and post later.
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attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




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