narcissist ahoy!

guess what i quit riding that boat of narcissism quite recently and just when i shoud be feeling relieved, i realise that living with such people have long term effects than we think. even to the strongest of minds. i lived in such a marrige for 6yrs isolated from neighbours, family, friends and even career. i guess he was successful, until i woke up and decided it was quits for me or i might have say quits from life itself. it very difficult to eliminate those thots and word that they have hammered in to your head for years. i find it hard to cry too cause he trained me to withold emotions as was the norm in his conservative society. but it hurts more inside as he is resistant to give me a divorce prolonging the pain
any advice..

Although I never got to "live with" my x-friend who began to display signs of lack ofmotional empathy, remorse, or ability to be kind, I can relate to your post in that there do exist effects after being with a personality like one with traits of narcissism. I think it is the tip of their disorder; with my friend, he was definitely dissociated and hadn't gotten help for some time for it. He lied, left, had long periods of absences, could not take accountability for anything he did. They do drive you crazy, but as you said, the person you first met and fell for was really a fake. I read something about the "betrayal bond", awhile back, which explains why the bond we had with people with this disorder can take hold of us; I tried to erase him from my thoughts; then emailed him today; they are toxic, toxic, toxic; have no desire to change in general as long as their needs are met, they will use, use, use. If you still love your husband, maybe you could get him to go to counselling? Just a thought; it's tough because we have to identify what it was in our personality which was drawn to them in the first place. My x lied way too often in a short 6 month period and left with no explanations for there to ever be trust again, even if he wanted to try again. They go from victim to victim; most were victimized themselves. I hope you are moving on OK.

Some people are so very loyal, caring and loving by nature. To a fault sometimes. It is hard for them to fathom that someone would play a false role in order to manipulate their friends and loved ones. Or that they could resort to rage, abuse and cruelty when not getting what they want. Spoiled brats. But these disordered people are out there... ready to prey upon these kind souls... always on the prowl for an easy mark. Don't dwell on the past with these people. Rejoice in the fact that you have seen them for the fakes that they are and you are taking the steps to break free. 6 years seems like an eternity. But there are those who suffer the narcissist for decades and their only escape is when one or the other dies. Consider yourself lucky. You are not like them. You are better. You deserve better.

@tohelpafriend
thanks for the good words. just to et you know i have left my husband for good and trying to proceed with the legalities but with setbacks from you know where. i realise that these people, have thee mutifaceted personaities that they keep morphing from - 'i have been wronged' ' i am in need of love' 'i am too good for you' to 'i am the centre of the universe' that they put your brain into a sort of blender that you cant think or have belief in what you think about them. you shuttle between this person needs loving to run before i get killed or kill myself.
i think trying so hard to counsel him to do atleast the right things to lead a decent life drained me badly.he'd pretend listening to me then go back to doing things that actually supported his weakness. my ex actually supported our lifestyle by selling off property in his name inspite of me requesting him to work for our lifestyle. he didnt let me work as he thot i needed to be at home taking care of his very aged parents who were in hospitals by turns.( this is the norm in india,pref is given to family and not finding your own individuality- not that anything is wrong with that ,but getting to hear baseless abuses after all that from him and his parents was a torture.)
@strongerman- yes what u said was true, you try to be true loyal and hardworking and there are some people who would take full advantage of that and hurt you. guess he married me for the reason that i came across as a loving, open, cooperative,willing to listen. well i have a better chance at life now that i am out of it mentally and physically atleast. back with friends and family, aving being isolated for so long makes me feel alive again. everyday is a new great day!

Rubyindie,

You have hit upon the frustrating push/pull behavior of the narcissist. With its accompanying idealization and devaluation. The fact that you can identify these types of toxic behaviors and reject them shows you are a more emotionally healthy, mature and available person. The truth is that these people need love, compassion and emotional intimacy just like everyone else. The devastating and sad problem is that they cannot accept it. To do so would leave them vulnerable to the pain, wounding and fear of abandonment/engulfment they have been desperately trying to avoid since childhood. They are not going to allow themselves to be hurt/injured ever again. This is the pact they have made with the devil inside them. They learned as a child that love and affection was conditional upon conforming to the parent's wishes. When they marched in line, they found acceptance. When they stood up for their own beliefs or desires, they were shunned and shamed. So while they want you on one hand for a relationship and what that can give them (ideal "love"), they will constantly fight tooth and nail against losing control and actually needing you. Needing someone is far too threatening and risky to them. Hence the pull to keep you from abandoning/injuring them and the push to protect themselves from being vulnerable. We mistake the pull for love. And the push is, of course, abusive. But it is really all about the narcissist. They have a fail-safe defense. Either way, they will not be hurt. Heads they win, tails you lose. But they can never truly love in an emotionally mature way. That is a language they simply do not speak.

rightly said @ stronger man. you know when u have these thoughts in your head and cant really put them into right words, then somebody just does that ! well thats the feeling got when i read your response.thanks for putting it in perspective.
push and pull it was, right from day one!
you know the first step he took towards completely isolating me from the world was to tell me that i was the only one in the world who could understand him and to promise him that i would never leave him mentally, physically and even in my thoughts! and even i at that time, gobbled up the pull for the love i wanted to see in him so desperately. i allowed one show of consideration to iron out all the painful scars he made on my mind time and time again. but no more. you know i decided to finally quit when he started cribbing when i had to go for a radiological examination(x-ray) to confirm against a possible malignancy. he cribbed about having to spend money, having to wait( when i told him i could leave), and after the favourable diagnosis he cribbed about all the tension he had to take having to deal with my 'unfound' fears of cancer. i knew that a partner should never behave like how he did and was only a preview of the support i would get in my future during moments of real life crisis. when he knew that i supported him unconditionally during everyone of his mild asthmatic and gastritis attacks by staying awake all night, upon his insistance brought him medicines, warm drinks and comforting word without any show of tiredness or unhappiness. luckily for me getting out this late was made easier by the fact that we never had kids. i believe god was on my side!!;-)
thanks again!

Thanks rubyindie, I'm glad I could help.

The way to look at your role in a relationship with a narc is that you were never more than a source/supply for their need for approval and reflection of their false self (the image of splendor they wish to project to the world). The beginning of a relationship with a narc is the "honeymoon" phase. This is when they turn on all the charm, sweetness and affection in order to hook you. They feel the need to compensate for their underlying self loathing by over doing it at the start. They simply cannot allow you to see the real them; the ordinary, average, less than special person they see themselves as. They will also attempt manipulate you, as your ex did, into believing your connection is so strong and love so great that you are forever bound to them emotionally. This is a defense against their extreme fear of abandonment. We buy into all this despite our uneasiness, because most people want to find that "soul mate" who "gets them". Narcs are chameleons. They are experts at pretending to be whatever their target audience wants or needs at the time. That goes for any situation. Job interview, whatever... Once you commit they will begin to periodically show their true self by acting out in much the same manner as a child who doesn't get what they want (tantrums, blow ups, silent treatment, etc...). If you stand up to them and reject this bad behavior, you will illicit further rage and denial. The only way they know how to express themselves emotionally is through indignation, anger, aggression, and sometimes violence. Likewise, if you begin to make any demands on them (time, money, emotions) they will ultimately react as if you are inconveniencing or imposing upon them. You will get a classic guilt trip bon voyage. It doesn't matter what the reason. You could be on your death bed. Try as they might to pretend to be attentive and loving, they cannot hold it together for very long. All they know is they aren't getting whatever they want and they are going to punish someone for it. My possible narc ex did it to me after my elderly father fell and went to the hospital. At first she told me to do whatever I had to until he was ok and released. But when it became evident I would miss her sister's birthday dinner, she became sullen and threw a fit. Later on, she vehemently denied being upset and accused me of being too sensitive.

I congratulate you on not having children with this man. Champagne toast to you.

true....every word you said!! champagne toast to you too...:-)

I have been reading the different posts as I have been trying to figure someone out that I had been in and out of a relationship with last year. We ended it last November and it has been very difficult on me this past year overcoming it all. I fell in love with this man ...with in a few months of the relationship there were some big red flags that through me for a loop and totally confused me. I just saw him recently after 7 months...and again the confusion has begun Your post hit upon a few things. I would like some advice after posting some things that have transpired last year and now so maybe someone can help me understand things and how I should deal with it or maybe just run

As you seem to be very knowledgeable I would like to see if you can identify this man I had been seeing.
We met online and after about a month decided to see each other. Our first meet was to just have a drink and get to know each other. We sat at the back of a nicer type bar with couches where it was very private. I did notice he didn't have a lot of eye contact with me...and was feeling maybe he wasn't that interested. It got better toward the end and he walked me to my car and asked if I was interested in another date...surprised as his body language didn't convey a lot..but I said Yes..I think i would. So we again met ..in the city this time and walked around....he walks very fast as though we must quickly get somewhere. Again...not a lot of eye contact. ?? We enjoyed the day and things kinda moved fast...and I think it was more on my part...and I wasn't sure why...but it did. For whatever reason I felt some sort of attraction/pull toward him. I should say that I am a warm/giving/compassionate type person...but not submissive. I am in a management position career wise...but like a man that can take a bit of control. I don't want to manage things there. I could feel a certain sadness in him...and maybe that was the attraction...I can be a "fixer" type. I also sensed a sensitive man.
We had a second date ...driving around....a place by the lake and a wonderful afternoon that was soo intimate and he opened up to me about things....and I was falling for him. A few more times together before something new. A day that started out fine....by lunch his head was out the window...hardly any conversation or eye contact. I blew it off. We were to have a beautiful evening at a very very nice hotel. He was not a man to smile a lot...but hardly a smile at all...and no physical contact at all. I did try to talk to him and the things he said were odd. I found out some things that day....how he liked to do certain drugs...mushroom/mj. I knew he drank vodka quite a bit already and gambled a lot...but no debt...he admitted he was always chasing the high. He is a very wealthy man....and sad sad. He also hired prostitutes upon occasion....and one he had a lot. Yes I found out a lot that day. I left the next morning without even getting up to say goodbye. I emailed him later as I just didn't want to talk to let him know how upset I was and did not feel this was a healthy relationship or me anymore. He responded with how it was just an abheration and I had just never seen him like that before..that he can be like that. (??) Like it wasn't personal. Also how I WAS healthy for him. Well...let's just say the next few months were back and forth with similar things and it finally ended as I was feeling drained and tired of being confused about the relationship...and not feeling like I could rely on or trust him. So who is this man. He is selfish...sad sad sad...depressed...feels unworthy....uses vices to self soothe or forget...rich...his parents did not express loving emotions toward him....they were rich also... says he really doesn't love anyone. He does for HIMSELF. It is kind of like this love/hate for himself. He is not outwardly mean....but can say something that makes me feel like I am not enough. He likes to be around beautiful people and has told me that more than once. I do not know much of personality disorders...and at one time thought him to be bit narcissistic...but from other posts...I have never seen him aggressive in any way....just sad and a fearful look in his eyes that makes me so so sad. I just want to wrap my arms around him and make it go away....and I know that sounds strange. I was smart enough to get out of that situation, but will always feel a pull toward him that I have to resist.

@melancholy65 i guess u wanted advice from strongerman. surely its a good bet. dealing with an individual who does not respond in a 'normal' way and in confusing manner can be frustrating. tho i am done trying to understand and adjust with the narcissist/ dependant personality of a husband. i could figure out that you have not been able to start an open dialogue of interests and mutual understanding. however as compassionate individuals we have to understand that we do often atttract very sensitive and dependent persons into our lives. more so since they know they can depend on our conscience to eke out all the love and attention they crave for. it could be very a feel-good affair but can in the long term ( in the absence of definite steps to self improvement on the other partner) can become emotionally draining. be aware and be wary. follow your heart think about what feels right for u and for your relatnship in the long term. u seem to be smart professional. all the best and keep the faith.

Thank you! Any replies are welcomed. Yes it is emotionally draining....and I start to wonder if I have a problem... Why would I want to subject myself to this torture :/ I want to be there for him...but he can run hot and cold....and so much depression and a lot weighing on him that there is no room for me I know. I really want to be done with it and feeling so much for him. I have went to a therapist 3 times with the hope of understanding things....but it is continually on my mind. The only thing I have learned ..after looking at my past ...was how it really comes down to my relationship with my mother...of course. She was extremely critical...I never felt love from her...I was never good enough. I don't feel hate toward my mother...I have forgiven her....she was never a truly happy person and always concerned with her appearance and what others thought of her...or me :P So the therapist said I was attracted to the same type of person...and seeking his approval and wanting to make him happy...the approval I never got from her....I could never make her happy.,....so there is the cycle. I don't know... I guess it makes sense.

Thank you again

god bless! you are strong, u can figure out if this is really for you, good for you and essential for you.

HI melancholy65. I am sorry for not being able to post sooner.

I had a similar childhood with an alcoholic father who was very critical of me. The only words I heard from him were to correct me for something I had done wrong or not good enough. I was never good enough. So, I grew up being somewhat timid and afraid to try new things. I didn't get the crucial "just do it!" vitamin when I needed it most. Even though I have gone through therapy many times to overcome my issues of being an acoa, and am worlds better for it, it still resonates in my everyday life. It is a never-ending struggle it seems. We can get better but never are entirely whole.

With regards to relationships, this translated for me to a kind of a reactive, "take what comes to me" persona vs. going out and getting the type of person I desire. I tend to think that this is what causes the sensitive, caring, intuitive, deep thinking and feeling types to, not so much be attracted to narcissistic people, but to be most deeply affected by them. We end up in therapy most often for it. How this all unfolds can be obvious in hindsight. A narcissist will come and pick us. We don't have to risk much initially. It's like finally being chosen first when teams were picked for kickball in elementary school. And they can certainly play the role from the start of a well adjusted, open and emotionally mature person... fooling us. We sometimes think we finally found a person who we can connect with. They soon show the red flags of abuse and being emotionally stunted but our approach is such that we don't set the boundaries quite forcefully enough or follow our instincts that tell us this person is toxic. We can't just "give up" on someone so soon. That would be cruel. After all, we were brought up to put others first and our own needs last. And the PD will perpetuate our self doubt through ambient abuse and self esteem depleting words. So we muddle on hoping to break through to this person who has all these walls built up to protect them. Things just get worse as we continue to pound on this brick wall. We end up staying in the relationship long enough to have it wear on and scar us emotionally. Whereas another type would say "see ya!" after the first couple crazy, irrational outbursts and silent treatments.

To touch on your particular situation, melancholy65. What stands out to me in your description of this man is that you said he is so sad and depressed. Narcissists, for instance, usually do not exhibit deep depression unless they have received a severe narcissistic wound ie. they have just been dumped. Even then, this is relatively short lived and is more of a "pity party" meant to garner supply from loved ones and friends in the form of sympathy and affirmation. Always the poor victim til the end. Whatever this man's condition (bi-polar?), it still is toxic to you. You have to understand that you couldn't fix or save him. You could help him but that involves great risks. He has to be willing to help himself overcome his depression and self defeating behavior. It is perfectly ok to put you and your mental health first when dealing with someone like this. Nothing to feel guilty about.

Thank you for responding. I don't believe I feel guilty....just sad and frustrated I am having such a hard time removing myself from this situation. I am all about taking care of myself... physically and mentally..so that is why I am here to seek advice and guidance. I fell in love with a very sensitive and open soul. I did see the sadness...but then a man so happy and wanting to be a different person for me....how could that not make anyone happy? To be the reason someone wants to change. But then it was like a light went out for him one day and things spiraled after that. He could not hide his true self..and he had already taken my heart. aghhhhhhh. But I have told him I need to release this. How it is too hard for me as it drains my energy. I tend to absorb all his sadness and it weighs on me so heavily. I have to stop contact all together to regain myself

just a suggestion red....maybe you both can involve yourself in some activities that will help evaluate your true mental states or even something that brings energy and peace such as meditation classes, sports? maybe it will bring out his true feelings and thoughts and give you the energy to deal with the draining happening to you.
well , i guess i know how my energy -leech of a an ex is such a pain. he used to admonish me(still...) for not reading all his mails about his rantings about his new found better lifestyle and mature thinking. and when i did give him a deadline to come and submit the petition for divorce, he stopped calling and mailing for weeks. he sends me a mail today saying he had tried to send me a reply which the 'evil' technology messed up and maybe i didnt get the mail. now he is trying to play mind games since i do not know what he 'tried' to mention in those mails , if he ever did, and now he has the nerve to ask me to coperate and not stop all communication with him yet'which might unnecessarily complicate things'. he will contact me when he fancies and expects me to be at his behest whenever he calls .
. i will take no more. i am going to seek better legal advise to get things done my way.let him know how irritating it is to keep someone waiting for a response and live in uncertaininty everyday. controlling myself from puching these pillows....... its draining and when it does i want to seek out a release, something that makes me feel good about myself and definitely lighter and energised like some breathing exercises. it works!:-) all the best for my friends who battle with their own minds, more power to u!

Kudos to you this morning! If you were nearby we could go walk together...or better yet, kickbox! ..and bash all these negative feelings we let them create in us. I hate to feel badly so much that I do anything not to...mostly get moving. Reading other's posts helps a great deal...knowing there are so many people with similar struggles. I am 46 and read a lot from readers in their 20's with partners who have some pretty bad problems and I want to say RUN RUN NOW! Have a wonderful day Rubie

thanks melancholy65! wow kick boxing sound great:-) never tried it but willing to! guess what i finally finished another peace inducing activity for myself dont laugh..but its a styrofoam sun about 3ft wide and painted it copper. looks great to me! make me feel good abt myself. spent abt 20 mins each day over the past week.
hope u can find peace in your own way,dear. amen! hugs....

Have you ever seen the movie "As Good As It Gets" with Jack Nicholson? Your last post, melacholy65, reminded me of that. Where he said he was taking his pills again and "you make me want to be a better man". She said that was the best compliment anyone over gave to her. Very touching scene.

Relating to my experience, my ex's disorder (narcissism?) sucked that enthusiasm right out of me. I no longer had the energy to improve myself. All my energy went into managing a toxic relationship and figuring a way out. I did not have the knowledge I do now. But it probably wouldn't have helped her. It is sad that mental illness has such devastating effects for those afflicted and those around them beyond the obvious abuse and heartache. The disordered person actually meets someone who can really empathize with them, love them... get them. But their illness leaves them "so close, yet so far" from achieving that level of true love and true emotions. They leave us often to sadly repeat the same insanity over and over again and create more heartache and misery. It is tragic. This is the core of the love I had for me ex. A love that never was and could never be.

YES! I guess we were in very similar situations. If they can not love themselves they can never lover others. The love, compassion, understanding and acceptance of them is still not enough. I know the hurt and angst over this. I have to say this was the only man I have ever had a relationship with as this. I have always had good men in my life..boyfriends...brothers...husband and dad. It was only the bad mother relationship. I was married for 25 years and he was a truly wonderful man with a lot of integrity...there was just another very personal issue between us that ended the marriage. So to have this kind of situation has thrown me for a loop. I went for the "bad boy" i guess. He will never let someone love him. I actually ended it all recently...as I have before and he will eventually text to say something and things inevitably start over again. I have said goodbye at least 4 times and he never will. I told him I would stay out of his way...that he needs to work out his life. So lately it has been me checking in on him...and he seems distant...I am sure depressed ...but I am so so so tired. I do not want to be concerned with him....I want out. I told him there is nothing I can do if he won't let me be there for him and he says nothing. So this leaves me feeling badly as I feel not enough....even though I KNOW I shouldn't ...it is just the way it is.

OH yes...I love that movie

[quote=melancholy65;1965782
dear meancholy , i hope u realise this, as i have, across the world and cultures, there are some traits that we mistake to be simple adjustment problems but we might be actually looking at very subtle disguised forms of mental illness. we associate mental illness to a person when we see very overt expressions and total incompatibility with normal enjoyable life. but there are some people who find ways to disguise their problems over time, by creating an aura and mannerisms that drains from the people who come in contact with them. its like putting up invisible fishing lines and then people with good hearts compassionate minds and willingness to help rather spontaneously, eventualy bite the hook, and these people take it as an opportune moment and take from us what we give willingly and more before we know it. we feel as if we are not giving enough or giving it right, but after being exhausted emotionally and spiritually( there is only so much a person can take) that we finally realise that they are the ones who need to pull their act up. they could change only if they wanted and on their own or with help. it doesnt become any of us to handle such people. imagine, psychiatrist and psychologists study years to find ways to control and manage such 'difficulties' .and even they find some cases impossible such is the comlexity of the mind. there are some people who are like puzzles we cant solve and by acting like a puppy in love they confuse us endlessly till we are contemplating on our own sanity. best is to drop it an find ourselves another puzzle to solve!
i know now that every person has a right to be happy and be in the company of people who love them and appreciate them. listen to your mind and body if you feel you have come across somebody that drains you move away in peace, look for what invigorates you. this is a beautiful world with beautiful people. here is to all good hearted people to help us find and keep such people in our lives.

thank you Ruby... I was wondering if you name is really ruby...you know rubies are more precious than diamonds It has been a nice day here. I had 10 people over for dinner including my kids and their significant others. Both of my kids have very healthy and loving relationships and I am so happy for that. I see the way they look at each other...treat each other and that makes me so so happy. Cheers to a happy day

Thank u melancholy65 glad u had such a great time with your family. i am sure they are happy to see you happy and am sure you will get more moments like these to share your happiness with your family.pray to lord for more strength in your and your family's life.
my sic ex is back on the scene after a long silence, now he suggests going to spain for a hol . disgusting isnt it? the nerve... now i am really gonna pressurise him to come to my town to sign the papers.
btw my id is after my first best friend ruby, my pet dog( she died in 1994 at age 6) , i truly believe she taught me so many things( i had some issues in sociability as a child) and gave me a new perspective to compassion and finding happiness in lil things.thanks for asking. TC